Would You Like To Be Able To Use A Dog To Track A Wounded Deer?

[openseason]

I want to call F and W and find out. I have records of my for lack of better word slight disability. Maybe they will allow me to use my dog. Certain individuals can use a crossbow in archery season. Their disabilities may be more severe than mine but.......

[Ironcowboy]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Secondly, pursuing a wounded animal without your rifle is, IMHO, unwise. What are you going to do if you come upon the animal and it's still alive? You need to be able to finish it off, and no, we don't want to see you lunging at it with your folding Buck while it tries to get up and escape.

AWWWW...come on! What if I promise to only use my fixed blade buck instead of the folding?

I know pursuing wounded with out a gun is silly, but just playing with the wording of the regs.

[aulrich]

Funny the difference a few years make, earlier in this ancient thread I was not a dog person, but not against the concept.

Well I have crossed the floor since then, and blood tracking is on the to do list for the new puppy(who I know will poop gold btw), I know it is not legal here, and will abide by the law. I did a quick look at the Sask regs and did not see an a rule on that. I do hunt there as well so the skill should not be a purely academic exercise.

It's sort of like insurance, mostly you don't need it, unless you need it.

Some of the examples I have seen on youtube the dog has been check corded and did not seemed hindered.

Funny as I was re-reading the thread and found it odd on how the justification for having a law against this, sounded like the same reasons for gun control.

[elkamaholic]

Might be a business opportunity if f&w ever does legalize the use of tracking dogs in ab. How great would it be to call in a tracking dog and sanctioned handler if your trail disappears but you know the animal is fatally hit?!?!

Anyone who has ever had to walk away from a lost blood trail and knows that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach would have to agree...but I know, it will never happen.

I would settle for allowing pack dogs in the mountain wmu's, but that's a whole other topic

[cover]

Originally Posted by puphood1

In BC a number of years ago I shot a buck in heavy timber about 50 miles from home and could not find him. I drove home that evening/night in the pouring rain and the next am I took back my GWP back to the area where it still was raining hard. The dog who knew how to track did find the old track and followed it for about 1/2 a mile as witnessed by the odd blood spots I saw unfortunatly we never recovered the deer. My point being at least I tried one more time in the recovery of a wounded animal. The acceptance of tracking wounded game animals with the use of dogs by other areas of Canada and the world only points to a lack of understanding of benefits in the recovery of wounded game.
As a note the german standard includes tracking of game in a couple of ways one of which is off leash and the is dog trained to bay at the side of the found downed animal after tracking it this is considered one of the most difficult tasks a dog can master.......puphood1

Opinions are like sphincters... everyone has one. I see alot of uninformed opinions from some. Some assume a tracking dog will be running uncontroled miles ahead of the handler ? Really ? How many dogs are around that are trained to that level ? Or a handler that would do that ( assuming it is legal ) and not be worried his dog would be shot for "running game " . To be successfull at training for BLOOD tracking it is my understanding that for best results you should start soon after puppy comes home. By using a harness they will quickly learn the difference between a collar and harness and the task at hand . If some of the European hunters with more first hand experience could add to this please do . Some sort of certification would make sense .

Eight years ago while checking out a kennel from a breeder that I was interested in buying a puppy from showed me what his imported Czech. dog could do . An elk hide was dragged through the cover for about one hundred yards . He then put a collar through the collar the dog already had on so it hung down between the dogs front legs . He then told the dog " track " . The dog followed the trail to the elk hide . It then grabbed the dangling collar in his mouth and returned to the handler . A leash was then put on and the dog led us to the hide . Needless to say I was impressed. I picked up my puppy a few months later .

[Big Daddy Badger]

Sure...but where does it end?

You start out with a leashed or controlled dog tracking wounded deer.
Gradually it turns into a half dozen dogs tracking deer period.
Eventually... it's a fox hunt... guys on horseback... packs of hounds and deer being run to death.

[cover]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Sure...but where does it end?

You start out with a leashed or controlled dog tracking wounded deer.
Gradually it turns into a half dozen dogs tracking deer period.
Eventually... it's a fox hunt... guys on horseback... packs of hounds and deer being run to death.

Agreed . Nothing gets me more upset than seeing dogs running game . A certification system would be the only way to keep it from being a s*** show . Most people would not be willing to train and get their dog certified . Those that would likely have their heart in the right place .

[cover]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

puphood1 have you ever heard of a bringsell? I think this is one of the most intriguing training routines I have heard of. The dog has a leather fob on its collar. It tracks the game and when the dead game is found it will grab hold of the bringsell and return to the handler. When the dog gets to the handler the handler knows dead game has been found, snaps on a lead and follows the dog back to the dead game. If the animal found is not dead the dog is expected to give tongue and hold the animal at bay till the handler/hunter can arrive and dispatch the animal.

I was amazed when I witnessed it .

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by openseason

I am partially color blind and have a very hard time distinguishing red from green.Not so much that it is on my drivers licence. Street lights are completely different. Archery hunting has proved quite challenging. I have started training my dog to trail. I have shot coyotes in fields then put my dog out at first blood in the snow.The coyote is dead in the field i know its dead and return with no gun. Just to be safe. If on a leash all he wants to do is pull. Off a leash he is very calm and trails the blood perfectly. Now do you think they will let me use them on tracking wounded big game?Regulations call it harassment.

holy crap this thread has post from 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2012.......

[aulrich]

It's the Walking Thread

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Sure...but where does it end?

You start out with a leashed or controlled dog tracking wounded deer.
Gradually it turns into a half dozen dogs tracking deer period.
Eventually... it's a fox hunt... guys on horseback... packs of hounds and deer being run to death.

And then there's that whole learning to drink tea thing with your pinky finger stuck up. and who wants to speak in tongues...well with an English accent.

Man this is so unbelievable. Why micro manage something that is so simple.

Check out the places that allow dogs to accompany a hunter. Packing, tracking or just for company and show me one incident that was a wreck.

One incident that F/W had to attend.

I'm not referring to chasing with hounds, I'm talking about accompany off the leash.
I hunted for 30 years in B.C. with my lab along. never one incident where the dog was in trouble. On the other hand the dog always warned of bears and found lots of items besides dead stuff.

Alberta F/W is the slowest jurisdiction to change things. But the enact a management plan for CWD that hasn't worked anywhere else.

So if it works elsewhere...don't do it. If it fails elsewhere, what are we waiting for,?

[catnthehat]

It's legal to run deer with hounds in Ontario, is it not>
I know it is in several states as well.
What some consider wrong, others have no problem with , same as the baiting issue.
I see no proboem with using a leashed tracking dog myself.
We run cougars with hiunds as well, is there a difference?
Cat

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Sure...but where does it end?

You start out with a leashed or controlled dog tracking wounded deer.
Gradually it turns into a half dozen dogs tracking deer period.
Eventually... it's a fox hunt... guys on horseback... packs of hounds and deer being run to death.

You start out with people wanting rifles and shotguns.
Gradually it turns into handguns and high powered assault rifles.
Eventually it's full autos and high powered sniper rifles capable of piercing armour. Blood flowing in the streets, yadda yadda yadda

We have heard these arguments before and they don't make anymore sense when talking about dogs than they did when talking about firearms.

ARG

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

You start out with people wanting rifles and shotguns.
Gradually it turns into handguns and high powered assault rifles.
Eventually it's full autos and high powered sniper rifles capable of piercing armour. Blood flowing in the streets, yadda yadda yadda

You think that's bad, you just wait until your unruly dog spooks a buck I've been tracking and I give fido a lead enema. LOL

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You think that's bad, you just wait until your unruly dog spooks a buck I've been tracking and I give fido a lead enema. LOL

Would you feel better if it was spooked by me crashing out of the bush on a quad? I suspect not.

ARG

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It's legal to run deer with hounds in Ontario, is it not>
I know it is in several states as well.
What some consider wrong, others have no problem with , same as the baiting issue.
I see no proboem with using a leashed tracking dog myself.
We run cougars with hiunds as well, is there a difference?
Cat

It has been legal for as long as I remember, 70 years. As I said I've never read of a dog being a problem when it comes to hunting with one.

How many times would a guy take an untrained unruly dog hunting for big game?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

It has been legal for as long as I remember, 70 years.

You can remember back 70 years? Man, I'm very impressed Red, and amazed that you even know how to operate a computer! But now it's clearer why the mail-order bride company had no idea what you were talking about when you requested one who looked like Mary Pickford.

[Redfrog]

AH! Mary Pickford, not to be confused with Alison Redford. Two different fords.

The good ford starred in silent movies, the dumb one doesn't know when to be silent, a quality highly underrated by the weaker sex,

As far as the computer, well my motto is Semper Gumby,.......... Always flexible.

You grow or die.

It wasn't long ago that I asked my kids how to do something. Now they ask me. I don't tell them anything but I think it's cute that they ask.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

doesn't know when to be silent, a quality highly underrated by the weaker sex

I didn't realise that 'politician' was considered a sex.

ARG

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

I didn't realise that 'politician' was considered a sex.

ARG

OH YeaH! It has been for a couple years now.

[aulrich]

Maybe thier own species as well.

[openseason]

Contacted Fish and Fur. I am not allowed to hunt big game with my dog. That includes just tracking wounded game even if i am red/green colorblind. Apparently there is nothing in their legislation that allow them to deviate for certain cases like mine.

[jimbo1]

i find it very odd that coming from a country with ridiculously draconion gun laws such as the uk we are still allowed to track wounded deer with dogs?? i honestly would have thought alberta fish and game would have been more enlightened to the benefits and especially regarding pack dogs in grizzly country where they could very likely save an unfortunate encounter with a bear

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

And then there's that whole learning to drink tea thing with your pinky finger stuck up. and who wants to speak in tongues...well with an English accent.

Man this is so unbelievable. Why micro manage something that is so simple.

Check out the places that allow dogs to accompany a hunter. Packing, tracking or just for company and show me one incident that was a wreck.

One incident that F/W had to attend.

I'm not referring to chasing with hounds, I'm talking about accompany off the leash.
I hunted for 30 years in B.C. with my lab along. never one incident where the dog was in trouble. On the other hand the dog always warned of bears and found lots of items besides dead stuff.

Alberta F/W is the slowest jurisdiction to change things. But the enact a management plan for CWD that hasn't worked anywhere else.

So if it works elsewhere...don't do it. If it fails elsewhere, what are we waiting for,?

You've never seen a canine run down a deer?

If you hunted in BC for 30 years you might recall the very real issues that province had with just that... about 30 years ago.
A problem that led the province to oblige hunters to shoot on sight any dog observed running big game.

It's one thing to tree a cat or birds... it's another to allow loose hounds to chase down deer.

I said "sure" to tracking wounded animals but that should be an "on leash" thing and in pursuit of wounded animals only. I have zero issues with dogs on or off leash hunting varmints, birds or big cats. I have no issue with bear dogs that are well controlled and accompanied by a hunter throughout the pursuit and harvesting of bear.
I do think that any dog used to hunt game animals other than birds... should be registered, licensed or certified in some way so that we don't have a bunch of yahoos running about with half trained dogs that might go rogue.

It's just too easy to exhaust deer and other big game animals if dogs are set on them and they can't hide in holes or perch in trees like varmints, cats or birds.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by jimbo1

i find it very odd that coming from a country with ridiculously draconion gun laws such as the uk we are still allowed to track wounded deer with dogs?? i honestly would have thought alberta fish and game would have been more enlightened to the benefits and especially regarding pack dogs in grizzly country where they could very likely save an unfortunate encounter with a bear

You guys can even use suppressors, yet us with our rules, cannot!
problem is, the Wardens do not make the laws, politicians do, and the way they go about it is just wrong!
Cat!

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by pesky672

You've never seen a canine run down a deer?

If you hunted in BC for 30 years you might recall the very real issues that province had with just that... about 30 years ago.
A problem that led the province to oblige hunters to shoot on sight any dog observed running big game.

It's one thing to tree a cat or birds... it's another to allow loose hounds to chase down deer.

I said "sure" to tracking wounded animals but that should be an "on leash" thing and in pursuit of wounded animals only. I have zero issues with dogs on or off leash hunting varmints, birds or big cats. I have no issue with bear dogs that are well controlled and accompanied by a hunter throughout the pursuit and harvesting of bear.
I do think that any dog used to hunt game animals other than birds... should be registered, licensed or certified in some way so that we don't have a bunch of yahoos running about with half trained dogs that might go rogue.

It's just too easy to exhaust deer and other big game animals if dogs are set on them and they can't hide in holes or perch in trees like varmints, cats or birds.

Nope I've never seen a canine run down a deer. I've seen a pack of hounds chase deer, bears, cougar, coons, rabbits and bobcat. And dang fine dogs they were. Well trained to do exactly that.

I've also hunted over bird dogs for 50 years or so and never saw one chase a deer. Again they were trained for bird hunting.

I've hunted in Africa, where I saw jack russel terriers track and hold animals the size of elk.Run them down nope. They were trained to track and hold.

I've seen some poorly trained dogs, usually retrievers that ran around barking and generally scaring birds. They were NOT trained.

Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

Do you own a 'hunting' dog? ever owned one? ever actually trained one?

I have never heard of a problem of hunting dogs running game in B.C. or anywhere else I've hunted.

I've heard of feral dogs running game and that is a totally different and unrelated topic.


This discussion is not about allowing loose hounds to chase down deer".

It is about using one dog to recover wounded game or accompany a hunter on a hunt. It is just stupid to expect my dog that is allowed to hunt with me every day for months to suddenly ''go rogue" because I'm deer hunting.

Elephants go rogue. Labs don't.


Do you see a "bunch of yahoos running about with half trained dogs that might go rogue." Have you ever seen it?

I'll ask again for one incident where a hunter and dog caused a problem retrieving wounded game. One incident of a dog "going rogue" I'm sorry but I can't even type that without laughing.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Nope I've never seen a canine run down a deer. I've seen a pack of hounds chase deer, bears, cougar, coons, rabbits and bobcat. And dang fine dogs they were. Well trained to do exactly that.

I've also hunted over bird dogs for 50 years or so and never saw one chase a deer. Again they were trained for bird hunting.

I've hunted in Africa, where I saw jack russel terriers track and hold animals the size of elk.Run them down nope. They were trained to track and hold.

I've seen some poorly trained dogs, usually retrievers that ran around barking and generally scaring birds. They were NOT trained.

Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

Do you own a 'hunting' dog? ever owned one? ever actually trained one?

I have never heard of a problem of hunting dogs running game in B.C. or anywhere else I've hunted.

I've heard of feral dogs running game and that is a totally different and unrelated topic.


This discussion is not about allowing loose hounds to chase down deer".

It is about using one dog to recover wounded game or accompany a hunter on a hunt. It is just stupid to expect my dog that is allowed to hunt with me every day for months to suddenly ''go rogue" because I'm deer hunting.

Elephants go rogue. Labs don't.


Do you see a "bunch of yahoos running about with half trained dogs that might go rogue." Have you ever seen it?

I'll ask again for one incident where a hunter and dog caused a problem retrieving wounded game. One incident of a dog "going rogue" I'm sorry but I can't even type that without laughing.

Ok.

Yes.
No... not currently
Yes... springers and cougar hounds.
I've also worked with avalanche dogs and bear dogs.

And I think I my answer has been pretty clear.
I do not have a problem per se with trained and controlled animals being used to track wounded animals.

I merely pointed out the difficulty with allowing dogs to be involved with deer hunting and that is... owners.

It is all well and fine as long as everyone plays by the rules but some won't and that poses a greater problem than having some birds tree'd. Once dogs are in the game... people will misuse em and we already have a hard enough time trying to get poachers in court... so why up the odds?

To be honest I don't really think its necessary anyway.
I've never lost a deer, elk, moose etc that I nailed.
I will admit...I've lost birds and had a hard time finding wounded bears and cougars without dogs. That said... I've still managed.
I have encountered people having a hard time though and it has almost always been a lack of competency unless the weather has been adverse... raining... snow. It is usually because they don't understand the difference between chasing and tracking... so have spent their time pushing an animal they were back trailing.

We have trucks, scoped rifles, GPS, range finders, cell phones, radios, scent, camoflage clothing, trail cams, calls... good Lord... what else do people need?
At what point are we no longer hunters but harvesters?

And yes...I have seen a yahoo using a half trained hound to run deer and the last time I did... I shot the dog then tracked down a doe that was so exhausted she'd stumbled to a water hole... become mired and died.

[openseason]

We have trucks, scoped rifles, GPS, range finders, cell phones, radios, scent, camoflage clothing, trail cams, calls... good Lord... what else do people need?
At what point are we no longer hunters but harvesters?

In my case I , guess new eyes but they don't make them so I am forced to put all animals I hunt at risk because I can't see blood. Try to imagine tracking a deer with no blood everytime.

I dont always have someone to help me and sometimes its to late by the time they can.

I am willing to face a charge and pay it when they catch me.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by openseason

We have trucks, scoped rifles, GPS, range finders, cell phones, radios, scent, camoflage clothing, trail cams, calls... good Lord... what else do people need?
At what point are we no longer hunters but harvesters?

In my case I , guess new eyes but they don't make them so I am forced to put all animals I hunt at risk because I can't see blood. Try to imagine tracking a deer with no blood everytime.

I dont always have someone to help me and sometimes its to late by the time they can.

I am willing to face a charge and pay it when they catch me.

I'm wondering if different tinted lense in a sunglass would help. Some tints highlight different colors. Have you talked to an optician?

[jimbo1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You guys can even use suppressors, yet us with our rules, cannot!
problem is, the Wardens do not make the laws, politicians do, and the way they go about it is just wrong!
Cat!

i hear ya buddy but as far as im aware andplease correct me if im wrong but alberta is one of the only provinces not allowed to use pack dogs in mountain areas? id find that kinda insulting its almost as if politicians dont trust albertans to use them within the law but trust the others ??!