Would You Like To Be Able To Use A Dog To Track A Wounded Deer?

[aulrich]

So how is it worst that a guy run a deer with a dog assuming it was being run by a hunting dog and not a free running farm dog that happend to be a hunting breed, and the guys that break any other rule.

We would have to start baning trucks, guns and bows, you know tools used to break the rules.

Hope your fast and your teeth are sharp!

Now this may be an urban legend but I belive that at some point it was legal to run coyotes with dogs and at some point a video of a kill got out, and seeing that it's not pretty business cause a anti dog back lash. There were enough bird and couger doggers to push back and keep thier way of doing things but all others were painted with the same brush.

But that was way before my time here in Alberta, and completely unsubstantiated, but did something like that actually happen?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by jimbo1

i hear ya buddy but as far as im aware andplease correct me if im wrong but alberta is one of the only provinces not allowed to use pack dogs in mountain areas? id find that kinda insulting its almost as if politicians dont trust albertans to use them within the law but trust the others ??!

I'm not too sure about the law on that Jim, you can use them while NOT hunting, but I think the law will change next year ?
There was a thread on it a whe back, Sheephunter would be one of the fellas that was in on it.
IIRC the AFGA put forth a resolution to lobby for pack dogs while hunting , and it may be okay next fall.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by aulrich

So how is it worst that a guy run a deer with a dog assuming it was being run by a hunting dog and not a free running farm dog that happend to be a hunting breed, and the guys that break any other rule. We would have to start baning trucks, guns and bows, you know tools used to break the rules. Hope your fast and your teeth are sharp! Now this may be an urban legend but I belive that at some point it was legal to run coyotes with dogs and at some point a video of a kill got out, and seeing that it's not pretty business cause a anti dog back lash. There were enough bird and couger doggers to push back and keep thier way of doing things but all others were painted with the same brush. But that was way before my time here in Alberta, and completely unsubstantiated, but did something like that actually happen?

Yes at one time it was legal to run coyotes with hounds in Alberta.
Cat

[jimbo1]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm not too sure about the law on that Jim, you can use them while NOT hunting, but I think the law will change next year ?
There was a thread on it a whe back, Sheephunter would be one of the fellas that was in on it.
IIRC the AFGA put forth a resolution to lobby for pack dogs while hunting , and it may be okay next fall.
Cat

heres hoping my friend, i know for one i would feel safer in grizzly country with a pack dog to alert me of a bear nearby.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by aulrich

Now this may be an urban legend but I belive that at some point it was legal to run coyotes with dogs and at some point a video of a kill got out, and seeing that it's not pretty business cause a anti dog back lash. There were enough bird and couger doggers to push back and keep thier way of doing things but all others were painted with the same brush.

But that was way before my time here in Alberta, and completely unsubstantiated, but did something like that actually happen?

That is not urban legend, it is how it went down - except the video didn't really "get out", some fellow took a news crew with him from a local station.
And, yes, it was a travesty how the rest of the hunting community just stood by and watched while the coyote hunters were fed to the wolves.

But that has nothing to do with the ban on being accompanied by dogs while big game hunting as that rule predates the hound on 'yotes ban by many, many years.

[AxeMan]

My thoughts on this dog assisted big game hunting proposal are mixed. Like anything else there would be very responsible hunters with well trained dogs and there would be no issues or conflicts, BUT potentially there would be the morons that would have their untrained yapping mutts running amuck through others camps and hunts. Fortunately, we don't see very many problems or conflicts with waterfoul and game bird hunters and their dogs so maybe this fear is unfounded.

The concept of dog accompanied big game hunting is fine but the possibility for abuse is there and that is probably what has Alberta SRD concerned. Just my two cents.

[openseason]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I'm wondering if different tinted lense in a sunglass would help. Some tints highlight different colors. Have you talked to an optician?

Yes I thought they could do lazer or something. So far nothing.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

My thoughts on this dog assisted big game hunting proposal are mixed. Like anything else there would be very responsible hunters with well trained dogs and there would be no issues or conflicts, BUT potentially there would be the morons that would have their untrained yapping mutts running amuck through others camps and hunts. Fortunately, we don't see very many problems or conflicts with waterfoul and game bird hunters and their dogs so maybe this fear is unfounded.

The concept of dog accompanied big game hunting is fine but the possibility for abuse is there and that is probably what has Alberta SRD concerned. Just my two cents.

Yep it's there alright. along with a truck that goes faster than the limit, or stores that sell booze to people who drove there. or registering guns for people who follow the law.

I can see a whole new industry here. Rewriting laws cause someone might break them. Yep makes sense.

[AxeMan]

You lost me, Redfrog. I think we are talking about writing new legislation that would allow dog accompanied big game hunting and that would be new in Alberta. What law are we rewriting? If I follow you correctly, you are saying that it is ridiculous for SRD to question whether the new "dog accompanied" legislation would be abused or not? Or instating any law based on the possibility of abuse. I suppose you have a point if that is how you want to look at it.

I see it as possibly opening a can of worms on all of the ramifications that could be associated with this new possible legislation. Some of the concerns definitely come up in these threads.

-would dogs be required to be leashed?
-would dogs be able to run game?
-how many dogs per hunter?

I know other jurisdictions allow dogs while big game hunting. I am am not sure why Alberta has chosen not to but I can only speculate as to why. My speculation leads me to believe that because enforcement is very limited the possible abuses out weigh the responsible adherence to the law.

[Redfrog]

Sorry Axeman I went a little 'rogue' there.


Like so many other things we deal with, some one always seems to want to muddy the waters with what ifs.

What if we allow a dog to accompany a big game hunter and the dog goes 'rogue' and randomly and wantonly starts running game animals and happens to run a deer into a skeg and the deer and it's whole family perishes from hypothermia? What if?

Sorry I'm doing it again, because it is so wrong headed. As I've said I've trained dogs and been around dogs my whole life. If I was hunting and my dog went rogue, he wouldn't get very far before he lied up from a severe lead infection.

If you have a dog that randomly chases or attacks things are you keeping the dog? It's just stupid.


When I hunt birds, my dog is under control. When I play with him in my yard he's under control. When my grandkids throw a ball for him, he'ss under control. Is my dog the only one 'under control' Of course not.

If you've ever hunted with a poorly trained or untrained bird dog you know what a PITA it can be. Are you going to take that meatball on a big game hunt?

We allow people to drive the freeway even though there is a chance they may break the law.
If we restrict our actions because allowing something may result in someone abusing it, then we better sit at home.

And yet again I ask for one incident where a dog accompanying a hunter ran wild and suddenly started chasing bears and bighorns, or killed a herd of deer for fun.

It doesn't happen, but we should prevent all hunters from having a dog go along on a hunt just in case. It makes no sense.


I see no reason for the dog to be leashed. I have dogs here that are in their teens who haven't had a leash on since they were puppies. If you want to have your dog on a leash while you are on a horse, then have at it. Try to get video.

I don't care one way or the other if dogs run game. We allow hounds to hunt cougar now. No leash. Sometimes many Km from the handler and yet we seldom see pics or hear reports of herds of bid game animals destroyed by roaming packs of cougar hounds. If it's leagl to chase game, fine with me. Been there had the hounds. it was a ton of fun. I'm not young and limber as I once was, so I wouldn't do it today.

I see no reason to put restrictions on the number of dogs. There is none now for cougar hounds, or beagles on rabbits.
If you don't want a pack of dogs chasing deer, then make it illegal and deal with those who may try to do it.

The person would have to be really stupid to have a pack of deer hounds if it was illegal to use them to chase deer. A lot of money tied up in decent dogs.

[AxeMan]

I am trying to see the positives of allowing dogs in a big game hunt...really, but I can't keep from ignoring the morons. I don't think that is muddying the waters at all because once the law is in place it would be highly unlikely they would go back on it. We also know that all hunters are not responsible and train their dogs. Actually, many have a hard time controlling themselves responsibly, never mind their dogs.

Positive scenerio: Responsible hunter with his well trained dog goes on his backpack hunt and the dog stays by his side and obeys all orders. The dog is great pal to have on the hunt and offers companionship, possible security, and may assist in tracking wounded or downed game. I am all for that and I think for the most part the serious waterfoul and bird game hunters are already there with it.

Negative scenario: Weekend warrior type that just likes to get out and smash down some beers and rip up the trails and backroads with his 4 x 4 loads up his totally untrained yappy mutts. He could care less if his dogs negatively affect his hunt, as success is just a lucky bonus for him anyways. He just wants to get ol Fido out for a run and what better way to do it. Said idiot pulls into our camp and dogs explode from the truck and run right through the mud on the way to our hanging moose and deer carcasses that were meticulously cleaned. Both mutts jump up on the carcasses with muddy feet, excited beyond belief. You get my drift.

Or, said moron pulls onto the cutline I am walking or waiting on and the dogs spot me and come running and yapping happy as can be out on their exciting new adventure. Moron vaguely realizes this is not so cool so he starts yelling, Fido..Rex, come back here boys at the top of his voice. Again, my steam pressure goes through the roof.

Now, Redfrog, you will say these are what ifs and we can't dwell on them and I agree to some point. I know we can't totally ignore these negative scenarios because they happen to me shore fishing all the time. Untrained Fido comes tripping through my tackle box tipping it over while Mr. Dog owner reassures me he is friendly and loves people. Oh, and isn't he so cute, and that I had better be careful with those sharp hooks around dogs.

I think we should be careful with legislation with respect to dogs and big game hunting before we open the flood gates. I totally realize that many hunters have used well trained dogs on the hunt and there is nothing better than that. Redfrog, I agree with most everything you are saying but to ignore the capabilities of some of these morons might be worth considering in the legislation since enforcement will be next to impossible.

There are two sides to this debate and I can see both. Like I said before, I have mixed feelings on it. Some people have a dog in the race though (parden my pun) and only see the one side of it. Unfortunately, it will be the morons that spoil it for everyone again.

[Nait Hadya]

NOPE! But i would like to be able to use a canine to pursue other critters such as bear,bobcat and lynx.

Yup...if people abuse it, charge them. Most hunters are pretty honest folk. It seems to work elsewhere...not sure why there's so much distrust of Alberta hunters. Seems to many people are just concerned about what they personally do and kind of miss the big picture of hunters as a community. I want but I don't want anyone else to have.......

[Andrzej]

IMO

Dogs belong to hunting like are guns , ammo, skinning knife and other helping tools.
It is hunters pride to have well trained hunting dog. In some cultures hunting without dog or not having access to one if needed for tracking is not legal.

If a goal of hunting is to harvest game than use of tracking dogs should be mandatory and hunting birds without dog should be illegal.

Sunday no hunting rules were as smart as not allowing to use tracking dogs, they are gone now. And to those that say never lost wounded large animal I know only two of them, my two Brothers...they don't hunt.

Some versatile hunting and blood tracking breeds were developed more than 100 years ago so it is old concept to use them for hunting.