Removing the carbon ring in a barrel

[Pathfinder76]

Taxing question. How do people do this and is it necessary? I’m curious about your thoughts.

[-JR-]

carbon ring around what

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by -JR-

carbon ring around what

Edited as I realize some might not be familiar.

[Dick284]

When you get a pronounced enough carbon ring in the throat area of a firearm chamber, that you jam a cleaning patch (push jag)in the throat you know you’ve got an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Degrees of carbon ring build up before the above mentioned scenario is the kicker. Without the use of borescope or marked accuracy fall off, how do you know when things become advanced enough?
I’d wager that a 2 box a year hunter wouldn’t know or care, while an accomplished bench rest or F-class shooter would most defiantly care, know, and further to this deal with carbon in a far more diligent manner.

I was a late comer to the carbon ring woes, and was enlightened to the issues when the first mentioned scenario bit my hind end hard with my 22-250.

Some shooters use foaming engine cleaners like those put out by Amsoil or Mercury. I couldn’t source any of those, but I did have a use worn bronze brush, Kroil and JB’s bore paste. I eventually ceased using Kroil and switched to using Hoppes #9 as a wetting and dispersing agent for the JB’s. The process involves wrapping a cloth patch around the worn down bronze brush, saturating the patch with the Kroil or solvent, then smearing the JB’s on the patch and with the use of a well fitted bore guide getting after the carbine ring by working the brush/patch arrangement back and forth in the throat area for the most part, and further into the bore a bit less.

I’m sure there’s a miriade of other products on the market, but this is what I’ve used.

[pikergolf]

I had a Savage rifle suddenly go bad on me at about 800 rounds, to be fair they were hot. It had been a very accurate rifle and suddenly opened up to 2.5" at 100 yds. I swapped out the barrel and the rifle returned to shooting and I had the barrel laying around the shop. Soon after I started an interest in Benchrest shooting and of course did lots of reading. This topic which I had never heard of came up (carbon ring) and I got curious. I bought a Teslong bore scope and had a look in the old barrel, it revealed a large carbon ring. I slide an empty case into the chamber and had a look, the cartridge bumped right up to the carbon ring. So.. my conclusion was, that the carbon ring was impinging the and crimping the neck slightly. I run my case only about .005 short of max, so trimming them shorter would have probably have solved the issue.

I clean my benchrest rifle after every session and pay attention to the carbon ring. My last barrel had 1300 round through it before it started to slip but it never developed a carbon ring. To keep it out I would run a couple of patch's of carbon remover through the barrel after each shoot and then push a wet patch into the area where the ring develops and leave it overnight. Next morning I would take a bronze brush one size up from the barrel size, put it into the barrel just short of the lands and give it about 5 twists. After that clean the barrel as usual. This barrel never developed a carbon ring, just a little darker there, that is it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I had a Savage rifle suddenly go bad on me at about 800 rounds, to be fair they were hot. It had been a very accurate rifle and suddenly opened up to 2.5" at 100 yds. I swapped out the barrel and the rifle returned to shooting and I had the barrel laying around the shop. Soon after I started an interest in Benchrest shooting and of course did lots of reading. This topic which I had never heard of came up (carbon ring) and I got curious. I bought a Teslong bore scope and had a look in the old barrel, it revealed a large carbon ring. I slide an empty case into the chamber and had a look, the cartridge bumped right up to the carbon ring. So.. my conclusion was, that the carbon ring was impinging the and crimping the neck slightly. I run my case only about .005 short of max, so trimming them shorter would have probably have solved the issue.

I clean my benchrest rifle after every session and pay attention to the carbon ring. My last barrel had 1300 round through it before it started to slip but it never developed a carbon ring. To keep it out I would run a couple of patch's of carbon remover through the barrel after each shoot and then push a wet patch into the area where the ring develops and leave it overnight. Next morning I would take a bronze brush one size up from the barrel size, put it into the barrel just short of the lands and give it about 5 twists. After that clean the barrel as usual. This barrel never developed a carbon ring, just a little darker there, that is it.

Ha! This is exactly what I do. I’ve heard people say that you can’t remove it this way, but I’ve sure had luck with it. And verified it with a bore scope. I have a picture here somewhere of a carbon ring I removed from another individuals barrel by letting it soak for a couple of days.

[Pathfinder76]

Here it is.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dick284

When you get a pronounced enough carbon ring in the throat area of a firearm chamber, that you jam a cleaning patch (push jag)in the throat you know you’ve got an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Degrees of carbon ring build up before the above mentioned scenario is the kicker. Without the use of borescope or marked accuracy fall off, how do you know when things become advanced enough?
I’d wager that a 2 box a year hunter wouldn’t know or care, while an accomplished bench rest or F-class shooter would most defiantly care, know, and further to this deal with carbon in a far more diligent manner.

I was a late comer to the carbon ring woes, and was enlightened to the issues when the first mentioned scenario bit my hind end hard with my 22-250.

Some shooters use foaming engine cleaners like those put out by Amsoil or Mercury. I couldn’t source any of those, but I did have a use worn bronze brush, Kroil and JB’s bore paste. I eventually ceased using Kroil and switched to using Hoppes #9 as a wetting and dispersing agent for the JB’s. The process involves wrapping a cloth patch around the worn down bronze brush, saturating the patch with the Kroil or solvent, then smearing the JB’s on the patch and with the use of a well fitted bore guide getting after the carbine ring by working the brush/patch arrangement back and forth in the throat area for the most part, and further into the bore a bit less.

I’m sure there’s a miriade of other products on the market, but this is what I’ve used.

I’m going to try JB’s on my next one. Especially if I’ve let it get further away from me than I like.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Here it is.

Wow that is ugly. I assume some of it is still in there. Do you have a borecam? I had one that was prbly thate bad in my 303 savage, i rrmoved it with a lot of twisting with an oversize brush, it came out not in a chunk like that

[Pathfinder76]

I do have a bore scope, yes.

[ScottFitter]

Since finding out about the carbon ring issues, I rarely clean the barrel, only the chamber. This is very prevalent on my 22's and my 6.5 PRC. I found some carbon remover at Cabelas. I can't remember the name of it, but it's a small bottle with a pump spray top.

I use a pistol length rod and a nylon brush to know off the loose stuff. Then a dry patch to remove the debris. I wet a patch with the carbon remover and let it sit for about 10 minutes, then twist it around and pull it out. Then a dry patch or two to clean it up. If the dry patches come out excessively dirty, I'll do it again.

The first time I did this, I did it 4 times. Now, I do it every 2-300 rounds on my 22's, and if I feel I have the time, every 20-30 rounds on my PRC, and I think that's even excessive.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by ScottFitter

Since finding out about the carbon ring issues, I rarely clean the barrel, only the chamber. This is very prevalent on my 22's and my 6.5 PRC. I found some carbon remover at Cabelas. I can't remember the name of it, but it's a small bottle with a pump spray top.

I use a pistol length rod and a nylon brush to know off the loose stuff. Then a dry patch to remove the debris. I wet a patch with the carbon remover and let it sit for about 10 minutes, then twist it around and pull it out. Then a dry patch or two to clean it up. If the dry patches come out excessively dirty, I'll do it again.

The first time I did this, I did it 4 times. Now, I do it every 2-300 rounds on my 22's, and if I feel I have the time, every 20-30 rounds on my PRC, and I think that's even excessive.

Was it Eliminator Bore Cleaner?
That's what has been working on my PRC.

[catnthehat]

If the carbon ring is heavy I use JB's and Kroil with a Iosso brush a caliber size larger than the chamber.
What I do the night before before that is use Accelorator into the chamber and rotate it with a pistol rod and a Iosso brush one caliber larger. And soak it for the evening then patch it put the next morning as part of my regular cleaning regimen.
If the carbon ring is present I then go to the JB's.
I also use a graphite paste afterwards as per Speedy Gonsalez' cleaning regimen to fill the fire cracking in the chamber/ throat area , this seems to help keep things in check.
One of my Fclass acquaintances swears by using CLR for the throats and I have tried it, and it also seems to work, regardless of all the new " evidence" that it ruins barrels- lots of bore cleaners will if they are left too long.

I find if I keep on top of it, the carbon ring issue is not a problem.
Cat

[marxman]

Going to try my dandruff shampoo on carbon, maybe it will work better than all the other bore cleaners I bought.

[ScottFitter]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

Was it Eliminator Bore Cleaner?
That's what has been working on my PRC.

It could be. I'm not at home right now to check. Kind of a carbon fibre label with a green border if I remember correctly.

[ScottFitter]

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/16598...carbon-remover

[Dean2]

If you have a bad carbon ring, take a size larger brush, wrap a patch around it soaked with a mix of Kroil and Hoppes 9, push it into the neck of the chamber where the carbon ring is, let it sit for 12 hours. Using a bore size brush with a patch wrapped on it and JB Bore paste, use a short stroke that only focuses on the carbon ring. Repeat soak and brush till carbon ring is gone.

To keep from having it come back, do the soak routine overnight every 100 rounds of CF and every 200 rounds of RF. Trimming your case necks to exactly the length of the neck in your chamber, rather than what the book says, will dramatically reduce Carbon Rings in CF rifles..

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Ha! This is exactly what I do. I’ve heard people say that you can’t remove it this way, but I’ve sure had luck with it. And verified it with a bore scope. I have a picture here somewhere of a carbon ring I removed from another individuals barrel by letting it soak for a couple of days.

What did you soak it in?

[GrandSlam]

Carb-Out by the makers of Wipeout might be something to try as well.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

What did you soak it in?

I’ve used both hoppes and patch out. The pictured one I used whipe out

[Tikka300]

Try Throrro clean, Insite Arms in Lloyd stocks it and ships it. I was ready to give up on a rifle due to accuracy falling right off from where it used to be. I was talking to insite about re-barreling my rifle and they mentioned I should try Thorro clean. To say I was blown away is an understatement, the rifle is shooting as good as ever, maybe even better.

It is a two part system and can be a bit messy with the second part being a thicker liquid type paste, no harsh odour though.

[fps plus]

Suzuki carb cleaner .

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

I’ve used both hoppes and patch out. The pictured one I used whipe out

I like Bore Tech C4 Carbon remover, not sure if it works better than the others but is better for my lungs than the stinky stuff.

[MOUNTAIN MICKEY]

General Motors Combustion Chamber Conditioner works good on carbon.

[6.5 shooter]

Iosso brush larger than the case neck with Iosso bore paste works just fine. Then go in with a chamber/neck sized brush (AR style works great) wrapped with a cotton patch to clean up the chamber and the carbon ring. I use a cheap plastic pistol rod to clean the chamber, better control as I twist it in the chamber. I have used CLR it is OK. Stopped using wipe out to messy and left a sticky solvent residue (like varnish) after a bit of time if you happened to miss a spot when cleaning it up.

[3blade]

Worked on a heavily abused 17HMR (not mine) that was splitting necks for who knows how long. Couldn’t get a bare 17 cal cleaning rod down the barrel. Tried wipeout, hoppes, carb cleaner and several others. Nope.

Spent 4 hours, 3 days in a row, using JBs and kroil, on a patch wrapped around a 22 cal brush. Eventually ground it out of there, but I sure as hell won’t be doing that again.

[32-40win]

I suppose Hornady may be pretty valid source for advice on what they use to clean barrels in their test lab, they likely do enough of them to know what does and doesn't work, and they do say they prefer stuff like Boretech Eliminator and Wipe Out or Patch Out, as they do so much of it and don't like stinky stuff, and that it does work. They say they have and would again, use stuff like Jeweller's rouge as a last resort in one example, JB bore paste preferred before using Iosso, and either is only used very carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJwvegwpKKQ

[AI 6.5]

When was the last time you cleaned it? I know people who say almost in a defiant tone "I never clean until the accuracy drops off". It's too late by then. I think the best way to prevent a carbon ring is regular maintenance.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Suzuki carb cleaner .

Interesting, I have been using Mercury Quicksilver Power Tune or Amzoil Engine tuner for years to take out powder fouling for as the start of my cleaning regimen, and have never had a great problem with carbon rings on my own rifles, but have encountered some big ones on guns that I have worked on that belong to others.
Sullijr (RIP) was the one that turned me onto the Mercury Quicksilver , he found out that Sinclair International actually sold it out of their Benchrest supply catalog!LOL

A few years back when I was working with paper patching, I started running the bore scope down through the muzzle with an empty case in the chamber to try and find the best case length .
What I found out about carbon rings and case length really amazed me!
Cat

[Dean2]

Just got done removing a carbon ring from a 22 RF. Soaking definitely helps but once the ring is well formed there is no option but using JB Paste. A bit of 0000 steel wool wrapped around a 17 calibre brush with paste on it and working only on spot with the ring, cleans out the carbon ring faster than anything else I have tried.

I did try automotive type carbon remover and it works pretty well on light carbon to keep rings away but was never able to get it to remove a really well developed one. Were any of you able to get a carbon remover to get rid of a ring without using an abrasive paste?