AB Election

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

Could you help me understand the radical part? Other than the CBC labelling them as such.
TBA is a grass roots group that wants to maintain accountability of politicians to the voters.
Jason Kenny went down because he lost the support of his base by arrogantly ignoring the MLAs who warned him.
Smith seems to understand the need to respect the representatives of the people.
If she doesn’t then she can go the same way as Kenny.

The TBA group is having an immediate impact on this election, they took control of the UCP from the inside and are moving the party back in the direction of the Wildrose Party.

"Take Back Alberta has organized town halls across the province and sent large numbers of their members to stack board elections and nomination races. Out of roughly 1,800 party members in attendance, Take Back Alberta claims to have sent 850-900 of its supporters to the UCP Annual General Meeting in October to vote for Smith as party leader."

This group now controls 9 of the 20 UCP board seats directly, they are the main reason Kenney was ousted and Smith was elected.

If you really want to know who they are and what they're doing, take the time to read the following articles.

https://pressprogress.ca/who-is-take...y-really-want/

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...s-on-ucp-board

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

I keep getting political messages from some guy named Outhouse in the UPC. Somehow the name seems appropriate.

Grizz

Just went to a sandwich shop and grabbed some lunch, while waiting the new feed ran a ticker tape "UCP says NDP fiscal policies will have people fleeing Alberta"

They may have convinced me to vote NDP. We have too many people here now. Lets get rid of a million or so!


Its BS statements like that, that drive me bonkers.

BW

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Just went to a sandwich shop and grabbed some lunch, while waiting the new feed ran a ticker tape "UCP says NDP fiscal policies will have people fleeing Alberta"

They may have convinced me to vote NDP. We have too many people here now. Lets get rid of a million or so!


Its BS statements like that, that drive me bonkers.

BW

The correct statement would be that the ndp would cause investors to flee Alberta, as happened last time.

[britman101]

Notley and her NDP cohorts will say all the right things to give them a chance to get elected. They can pretend to be a moderate when it comes to political values but when push comes to shove they will embrace and drink the kool aid being doled out by Trudeau and Singh.
When that happens uncle Klaus' mantra will become eerily apparent:

You will own nothing and you will be happy.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by AltaBorn

Election should be postponed a couple months or until the fires get under control. Funny how all these little oil communities that are threatened by wildfires are going to get their votes in. The Liberal cesspools like Edm and Calgary sure as hell won’t have any problems getting theirs in. However, I think the communists are going to win either way. Being taxed to death obviously doesn’t fix stupid either.

I believe you are wrong. UCP majority 55/45.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Just went to a sandwich shop and grabbed some lunch, while waiting the new feed ran a ticker tape "UCP says NDP fiscal policies will have people fleeing Alberta"

They may have convinced me to vote NDP. We have too many people here now. Lets get rid of a million or so!


Its BS statements like that, that drive me bonkers.

BW

Take out a million or so taxpayers and see how high your taxes go then.. it’s bs statements like that that drive me bonkers

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by AltaBorn

Election should be postponed a couple months or until the fires get under control. Funny how all these little oil communities that are threatened by wildfires are going to get their votes in. The Liberal cesspools like Edm and Calgary sure as hell won’t have any problems getting theirs in. However, I think the communists are going to win either way. Being taxed to death obviously doesn’t fix stupid either.

Agreed, too much happening now to come up with a legitimate vote and the losers will be blaming it on the fire situation. last thing we need.

Grizz

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

Could you help me understand the radical part? Other than the CBC labelling them as such.

How come nobody can answer this?

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Take out a million or so taxpayers and see how high your taxes go then.. it’s bs statements like that that drive me bonkers

I guess the sarcasm in my statement was lost!

BW

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

How come nobody can answer this?

Because the sad fact is, that many people hear it on CBC, and assume it's true, with zero proof My mother condemned the Ottawa convoy, because the CBC was reporting that protestors attacked the police horses. When I showed her the video of the horse kicking the grandmothers walker, and stomping on her, all she said was "why would they lie about that".

[densa44]

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by artie

For me theworst thing is this take back Alberta radical group
The already brag that they have members who are MP's
They brag that it was them who got rid of Kenny whether you like him or not
Smith has done nothing to distance herself from this group but it seems she might be in their back pocket
it is scary times

The dipper bench seems to be chock full of radicals that support communism. Oh look, here’s one now:

https://www.westernstandard.news/new...4e2d986ec.html

Oh dear, and another:

https://www.westernstandard.news/new...eec9e5f6c.html

And what the heck, let’s just throw a few more out there:

https://thenationaltelegraph.com/reg...tes?format=amp

Seems to be a bit of a theme here…

[hogie]

Originally Posted by densa44

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

Wasn't a mother and her preteen daughter just killed in Edmonton randomly from a person who should have been locked up with mental health issues?

Hard to say what's the best way to deal with mental issues and drug addiction. Doesn't seem they way we deal with them now is helping much. Addicts getting government supplied drugs and selling them to get what they want. Legalize hard drugs isn't stopping an addiction problem.

Better to try a different approach that may save an innocent life.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by densa44

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

Might want to do some more research you are missing important details like this would only be for people who are a threat to themselves or others and this would need to be approved by a judge. Smith has publicly stated that candidates for this will be reviewed by a judge first. This is not for some kid that simply has an addiction this is to target violent addicts and those who are a threat to themselves

This is also forced treatment for addiction not prison

As for the drs and nurses we presently have immigrants in this country with medical training from their home country where the certifications are not properly recognized in Canada. Some still work in the medical field but at a lower level than they are trained for. My wife has worked with nurses who were drs in their home country and care aides that were nurses in their home country. I know of others working outside the medical field

Theses people all speak English and already reside in Alberta

Having all the details on policy and situation are very important when making decisions

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Might want to do some more research you are missing important details like this would only be for people who are a threat to themselves or others and this would need to be approved by a judge. Smith has publicly stated that candidates for this will be reviewed by a judge first. This is not for some kid that simply has an addiction this is to target violent addicts and those who are a threat to themselves

This is also forced treatment for addiction not prison

As for the drs and nurses we presently have immigrants in this country with medical training from their home country where the certifications are not properly recognized in Canada. Some still work in the medical field but at a lower level than they are trained for. My wife has worked with nurses who were drs in their home country and care aides that were nurses in their home country. I know of others working outside the medical field

Theses people all speak English and already reside in Alberta

Having all the details on policy and situation are very important when making decisions

Question being how much of this forced confinement and treatment is allowed by the Charter, the elephant in the room when it comes to any of these discussions, it already restricts when we can incarcerate persons who logically should be behind bars, like the guy who violated his conditions of release repeatedly and has no plans of showing up for his next court appearance.

Grizz

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Question being how much of this forced confinement and treatment is allowed by the Charter, the elephant in the room when it comes to any of these discussions, it already restricts when we can incarcerate persons who logically should be behind bars, like the guy who violated his conditions of release repeatedly and has no plans of showing up for his next court appearance.

Grizz

There is definitely more information needed and we all know there will be challenges that will make sure there is no human rights violations

Realistically a lot of crime does link back to addiction so trying to find ways to fight addiction is a plus. Free drugs offered by the NDP not so much

There is also a push by all provincial leaders for federal reform regarding violent offenders getting parole and becoming more strict on parole violations. Basically trying to undo the issues the federal liberals created

But let’s be honest or system is pretty ineffective at lowering the crime rate in Canada

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by densa44

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

So basically to me this sounds like they want to get more ponoka hospitals running due to demand. Regrettably there are a (growing?) number of people who need to be institutionalized, I know of a couple people that need 24 hour supervision in order to protect the public, keeping them all in one place saves a lot of money as multiple people can be watched at the same time by fewer people. Not dealing with these people would basically end up with people getting hurt or worse and they’d end up in maximum security prison inside a week which is the more humane option? One of these guys was a known risk and under 24 hour care at the age of around 15 and will be under care for the rest of his life. These hospitals with the forced confinement will probably remove people from the street, make things safer long term, or providing a safer place to put some people with critically severe mental illness, they aren’t for parents throwing little Johnny in because he had a tantrum or smoked a joint.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by densa44

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

As opposed to the safety of young, broken people living in alleys sharing needles with other junkies and turning tricks to support habits? Seriously... Sometimes people need to be removed from situations forcibly.

[Supergrit]

Smith plays off peoples fears she is like the northern trump. Trying to get people to rally around her ideas. She is turn coat and can be disrespectful and the other choice is NDP. Take your pick.
I wish they had a disagree vote shows you support neither party.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Smith plays off peoples fears she is like the northern trump. Trying to get people to rally around her ideas. She is turn coat and can be disrespectful and the other choice is NDP. Take your pick.
I wish they had a disagree vote shows you support neither party.

Well I believe there are about 5 other parties looking for your support

[Supergrit]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Well I believe there are about 5 other parties looking for your support

That will probably be the plan.
Vote won’t be going toward smith that for sure

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

The TBA group is having an immediate impact on this election, they took control of the UCP from the inside and are moving the party back in the direction of the Wildrose Party.

"Take Back Alberta has organized town halls across the province and sent large numbers of their members to stack board elections and nomination races. Out of roughly 1,800 party members in attendance, Take Back Alberta claims to have sent 850-900 of its supporters to the UCP Annual General Meeting in October to vote for Smith as party leader."

This group now controls 9 of the 20 UCP board seats directly, they are the main reason Kenney was ousted and Smith was elected.

If you really want to know who they are and what they're doing, take the time to read the following articles.

https://pressprogress.ca/who-is-take...y-really-want/

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...s-on-ucp-board

Very interesting read.

Not a fan of Christian nationalism.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by densa44

The premier has promised 5, 75 bed locked mental health hospitals for Alberta. It will allow parents and police to forcibly institutionalize people against their will, for their own good!
This will put young people in a locked facility with very dangerous people who have severe mental illness.
The next issue which I don't think that they are aware of is, due to previous cuts we no longer train enough Canadians to provide medical and nursing staff
for these places. They will need to staff 5x75= 375 beds, a very large hospital spread out over 5 cities. The only English speaking countries where you maybe can get Doctors and nurses are in India or Africa. Psychiatry is best served by people who grew up in our society.
This is from a right wing party that used to support personal freedom.
Well for me this is a bridge too far.

For me, while not perfect, it's an absolute step in the right direction. Five mental health hospitals is a bit of a pipe dream, but it's a good start. Maybe that will start forcing public health care to invest more in mental health, addiction and harm reduction. Not blindly throwing more taxpayer money at the problem, but actually creating some tangible policies. For something like this to work, partisanship needs to be thrown out the window.
Politicians and policy/law makers need to put on their big boy pants and actually collaborate for the sake of the public not themselves.

For people with severe mental illness it's a much better option than simply throwing them in jail or leaving them on the street like an animal (especially in our climate). I know that many people oppose the idea and say "but, but, they can be treated with medication". That's great, however many with severe mental illness won't take their prescribed drugs and often turn to street drugs where they are preyed on by drug dealers. Plus many people will never ever get better, no matter how many chemicals you pump into them or how many therapy sessions they receive.

Many ER's are crowded with the very ill patients with long psychiatric histories. Violent patients, those with lengthy criminal history, that have drug dependencies or are chronically suicidal often have absolutely nowhere that they can be housed/treated, so they get discharged back to the streets where they came from.

If we can build some proper "asylums", not the Victorian type from the movies, but a place where people can be sheltered, protected and given the basic necessities of life, I'm all for it. There's no reason why we can't build facilities that are safe, provide refuge from a world that they can't cope with, and offer up some meaningful activities to improve the lives of those with severe mental illness. It would likely take a burden off of the EMT's, law enforcement, firefighters and of course the ER's and healthcare system itself. I don't find it very fair that first the first responders are expected to be street corner psychiatrists as well. First off they don't have the training, and the main focus of their jobs should be for medical emergencies/law and order/public safety first and foremost, not the crap show that's currently occupying a good percentage of their shifts.

But hey, I guess some people are okay with members of the public eating from dumpsters, living in cardboard boxes, defecating/urinating on the sidewalks, stealing/prostituting to support drug habits and dying of exposure.............with one caveat "As long as it doesn't happen to me or someone that I know". That's the Utopia that's being propagated and encouraged by many politicians/people (mostly left leaning) right now. That being said, those on the right aren't doing much of anything either.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

That will probably be the plan.
Vote won’t be going toward smith that for sure

Smith will start to look pretty appealing after you hear the phrase Premier Notley ,raised your taxes, Premier Notley introduces another Carbon Tax, Premier Notley tries to kill private and charter schools and home schooling. NDP close down access to crown land more and more.

Sounds like fear mongering I know but that's what the NDP do best so I figured I would try it on for size

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Smith will start to look pretty appealing after you hear the phrase Premier Notley ,raised your taxes, Premier Notley introduces another Carbon Tax, Premier Notley tries to kill private and charter schools and home schooling. NDP close down access to crown land more and more.

Sounds like fear mongering I know but that's what the NDP do best so I figured I would try it on for size

One could say that the UCP use fear mongering tactics as well. Politics are a dirty business.

BW

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

For me, while not perfect, it's an absolute step in the right direction. Five mental health hospitals is a bit of a pipe dream, but it's a good start. Maybe that will start forcing public health care to invest more in mental health, addiction and harm reduction. Not blindly throwing more taxpayer money at the problem, but actually creating some tangible policies. For something like this to work, partisanship needs to be thrown out the window.
Politicians and policy/law makers need to put on their big boy pants and actually collaborate for the sake of the public not themselves.

For people with severe mental illness it's a much better option than simply throwing them in jail or leaving them on the street like an animal (especially in our climate). I know that many people oppose the idea and say "but, but, they can be treated with medication". That's great, however many with severe mental illness won't take their prescribed drugs and often turn to street drugs where they are preyed on by drug dealers. Plus many people will never ever get better, no matter how many chemicals you pump into them or how many therapy sessions they receive.

Many ER's are crowded with the very ill patients with long psychiatric histories. Violent patients, those with lengthy criminal history, that have drug dependencies or are chronically suicidal often have absolutely nowhere that they can be housed/treated, so they get discharged back to the streets where they came from.

If we can build some proper "asylums", not the Victorian type from the movies, but a place where people can be sheltered, protected and given the basic necessities of life, I'm all for it. There's no reason why we can't build facilities that are safe, provide refuge from a world that they can't cope with, and offer up some meaningful activities to improve the lives of those with severe mental illness. It would likely take a burden off of the EMT's, law enforcement, firefighters and of course the ER's and healthcare system itself. I don't find it very fair that first the first responders are expected to be street corner psychiatrists as well. First off they don't have the training, and the main focus of their jobs should be for medical emergencies/law and order/public safety first and foremost, not the crap show that's currently occupying a good percentage of their shifts.

But hey, I guess some people are okay with members of the public eating from dumpsters, living in cardboard boxes, defecating/urinating on the sidewalks, stealing/prostituting to support drug habits and dying of exposure.............with one caveat "As long as it doesn't happen to me or someone that I know". That's the Utopia that's being propagated and encouraged by many politicians/people (mostly left leaning) right now. That being said, those on the right aren't doing much of anything either.

Well said. Just be thankful it’s not you or a loved one.
Nice post.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Because the sad fact is, that many people hear it on CBC, and assume it's true, with zero proof My mother condemned the Ottawa convoy, because the CBC was reporting that protestors attacked the police horses. When I showed her the video of the horse kicking the grandmothers walker, and stomping on her, all she said was "why would they lie about that".

And do you lack info, but you’re gonna fill in the blanks with your favorite whatever.

I wasent gonna get into this but… I have a good friend who’s connected well to both the Provincial local UCP Board here as well as the Federal Conservatives.

This person can attest that local upc board members here got pretty much hijacked, bullied and pushed out with ‘floodrush the floor’ tactics. when the nomination for the UPC candidate here happened… the doors were closed early, long-standing upc members said their ID wasent valid (or sumpin like that) consequently we had hundreds of votes denied.
That’s a big reason conservatives down here are planning on sitting on their hands.

Take Back Alberta is the Alberta Alt-right…. And according to the folks I’ve talked to.. hijacked the party.
Lots of centrist and ‘red’ tories just outsted.

I will not hold my nose and vote for them.

It puts me in a serious who to vote for situation quite frankly.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

One could say that the UCP use fear mongering tactics as well. Politics are a dirty business.

BW

Kind of sad that these days we are usually voting against something, not voting for something.

ARG

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by slough shark

So basically to me this sounds like they want to get more ponoka hospitals running due to demand. Regrettably there are a (growing?) number of people who need to be institutionalized, I know of a couple people that need 24 hour supervision in order to protect the public, keeping them all in one place saves a lot of money as multiple people can be watched at the same time by fewer people. Not dealing with these people would basically end up with people getting hurt or worse and they’d end up in maximum security prison inside a week which is the more humane option? One of these guys was a known risk and under 24 hour care at the age of around 15 and will be under care for the rest of his life. These hospitals with the forced confinement will probably remove people from the street, make things safer long term, or providing a safer place to put some people with critically severe mental illness, they aren’t for parents throwing little Johnny in because he had a tantrum or smoked a joint.

"During the 15-year period from 1960 to 1976, nearly two-thirds of Canada's 47,633 beds for the mentally ill were closed. The policy was designed to free those with mental-health problems from the often inhumane, white-coated asylums made famous by the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."

It was also done by govt. to save a ton of money, throwing the problem back on families, privately run group homes or right onto the street if nobody cared enough to support the individual. Bringing any semblance of that system back would come at an enormous tax-payer cost.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

And do you lack info, but you’re gonna fill in the blanks with your favorite whatever.

I wasent gonna get into this but… I have a good friend who’s connected well to both the Provincial local UCP Board here as well as the Federal Conservatives.

This person can attest that local upc board members here got pretty much hijacked, bullied and pushed out with ‘floodrush the floor’ tactics. when the nomination for the UPC candidate here happened… the doors were closed early, long-standing upc members said their ID wasent valid (or sumpin like that) consequently we had hundreds of votes denied.
That’s a big reason conservatives down here are planning on sitting on their hands.

Take Back Alberta is the Alberta Alt-right…. And according to the folks I’ve talked to.. hijacked the party.
Lots of centrist and ‘red’ tories just outsted.

I will not hold my nose and vote for them.

It puts me in a serious who to vote for situation quite frankly.

Which doesn't change the fact that many people, especially seniors, are used to accepting whatever the CBC broadcasts as fact. If the CBC reports something, they just accept it as true, even if it is liberal propaganda, or just a blatant lie, like the example that I posted.
As for the I have a friend stories, I have heard a lot of them, some are true, some are exaggerated, and some are worse than exaggerations.