Quality Trout Fisheries in Alberta

[huntsfurfish]

Sorry spec, yes I saw that.

[Speckle55]

on Terry if you give him a $10000.00 budget you get a $10000.00 fishery\\\

[huntsfurfish]

I know Terry, have interacted with him in the past

But you are still missing the point or are ignoring it!

[huntsfurfish]

I dont feel I should have to give him anything(Except input/feedback). The fisheries are all Albertans.

[Speckle55]

Hunt Duck lake is a Productive high mountain lake ... Terry would give his I teeth to have one lake like that .. it is in a chain of lakes lots..

[chubbdarter]

here's my rundown of this long post

Dave wants to keep and eat a few small trout...and thats perfectly fine that previlage should be open to all Albertans.
No one can say he should go to Safeway.....he is doing some thing that pleases him and that should be respected.
No one can say...why do you want to eat a muddy trout? maybe he is a better cook than you are.
He states more bigger fish will make it easier.....well of course it will....the chances of taking home a girl from the bar greatly increases with the number of girls at the bar....simple math.

The oppositon wants a improved fishery....hey no forward thinking person can deny the bigger and better theory.

Ive ruffled a few feathers with me asking what have our Bio's been doing.....i accept the excuses but by accepting the excuses then our problem is deeper than a simple fix. Without pointing fingers no one is accountable....its sadly part of the process of improvement.

Sun asked us to look at other fishery issues also.....this may have sparked my deeper interest and respect for the arguement.
Case in point...my first love is walleyes...my favorite lake is Travers
This year i only caught 3 walleye over 9lbs....but i caught ALOT of non legal walleye. I had some diffculties finding big walleye yet every where i fished there were tons of cigars. Even the legal fish were on the light side for their length.
Yes i know the issues are different.....but one must ask is there enough food....should the regs change to allow some harvesting of walleye?

Would i want to go to my favorite lake with NO chance of a big walleye....no fricken way!!!!
p.s. i dont kill the big females..its more the challenge than the killing
Would i try and do something.....yes
I think thats what the one side is argueing...and i respect that.

I always thought i was happy with the fact i regularly caught big eyes in Travers....would i want my chances to increase from 13lb walleye to 20 lb walleye.....H E double hockey sticks...YES......and still have the chance to eat a few small fish once and awhile....YES again now im in the bonus round.

Change is hard for some of us old fuggs....but i cant deny first hand we need some tweaking.

Some how some way we need to have smething for every type of fisherman in Alberta.

[huntsfurfish]

Spec


And on this continent but not in our Province

Cmon with all the research you do you really should be able to understand or at least see our point(s).

Other wise you are living in another world.

[Speckle55]

Hunt .. why is there groups call Friends of the Provincal Museeum,Friends of differnt Provincal Parks /Friends of Jasper National Park..parents of Ecole schools.. friends of hospitals doing house raffles .. legions doing raffles to help our vets.. because in our budgets there isnt the money to do all the programs for all the people .. so if you are on the out side then be willing to put in some time to help .. example Friends of Rainbow Trout.. and help Terry to Stock his choice of lake with 12 or bigger trout.. and pay for studys to improve that .. so look at my post 691..


but hey i want this to happen for free and i dont want to work for it and if you don,t i am going to take my toy and go home

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

here's my
Some how some way we need to have smething for every type of fisherman in Alberta.

EXACTLY.

I remain hopeful that, after 1600 posts, people will realize the truth of this exact statement, CDarter. Thanks.

Operating on that premise alone supports a quality fisheries approach. I mean think about it, from the early days of this province, from the time my dad was a kid, the 1940's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, stillwater pothole rainbow trout fisheries have been managed only ONE way.

And that way is a 5 kill limit per person everyday, bait allowed, no minimum size, nothing. Just a put and take scenario. NEARLY EVERY ONE of those stocked lakes.

And now, some people who don't like change don't want to share some of the habitat available? I think some old fuddy duddies should go back to Kindergarten. Case in point, Police Outpost Lake. A near perfect candidate for quality regs, but not without some serious opposition. Must EVERY lake be a 5 limit catch and kill dinker lake?

There ought to be enough water to keep the meat crowd AND the trophy, big fish C&R crowd happy.

Share the wealth folks, share the wealth.

Smitty
P.S. And having said that, I do think it is prudent for those of seeking quality fisheries to seek out underused potholes that can be "created new". Wouldn't hurt, and it saves the time, energy, and effort to fight those who want to keep their precious 5-a-day-lakes.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Hunt .. why is there groups call Friends of the Provincal Museeum,Friends of differnt Provincal Parks /Friends of Jasper National Park..parents of Ecole schools.. friends of hospitals doing house raffles .. legions doing raffles to help our vets.. because in our budgets there isnt the money to do all the programs for all the people .. so if you are on the out side then be willing to put in some time to help .. example Friends of Rainbow Trout.. and help Terry to Stock his choice of lake with 12 or bigger trout.. and pay for studys to improve that .. so look at my post 691..


but hey i want this to happen for free and i dont want to work for it and if you don,t i am going to take my toy and go home

You get it for free!(Now you starting to sound like Quebec).lol
So the money and budgets are just for you?
With that/your reasoning you should be paying for all your fishing too

Im amazed you have heard nothing weve said(shaking head in disbelief).

[huntsfurfish]

1600 posts and not making any headway

Wow





At least were thinking about it. That in its self is good.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

5 seconds on net and you point is ..?

The point is you are getting your expert opinion off the internet... If you have not fished Duck...don't assume you can go down and catch a reasonable number of big fish.

They average probably 17 inches...they stock em small...but the lake is huge and very windy. It is hard to catch many over 20 inches. A 25 incher is very, very rare these days. Years and years ago there were more. They are not around now because:

1) The local guides target them at spawning time...when they mill around the shallows chasing each other (they can not spawn successfully)

2) Natives snag em as fast as they can...legally...as it is on a reserve.

3) They let the sucker population go crazy...so less food...trout grow slower

4) They over stocked...more fish means less food per fish and they grow slowly

5) Harvest is high so they get culled quickly if they reach 20 inch.

Still the over all average size is much bigger than Alberta...which makes it attractive if we can not make it happen in Alberta.

So my point is...you preach what you do not know...and it shows.

I showed you a internet link that says their are gray trout and sunfish near Hinton...just so you know...that is false even though it says it on the net.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Did you read post by ishootbambi on life of your trout in your area (Terry Bio)

Duck lake is big high mountain lake right (cold lake)

Duck is not a High mountain lake. It is on a plateau... It is also quite productive with significant weed growth and can grow tons of amphipods...

If managed better it would be an extremely awesome fishery.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Sun asked us to look at other fishery issues also.....this may have sparked my deeper interest and respect for the arguement.
Case in point...my first love is walleyes...my favorite lake is Travers
This year i only caught 3 walleye over 9lbs....but i caught ALOT of non legal walleye. I had some diffculties finding big walleye yet every where i fished there were tons of cigars. Even the legal fish were on the light side for their length.
Yes i know the issues are different.....but one must ask is there enough food....should the regs change to allow some harvesting of walleye?

X2...issues like this need to be addressed. I would fully support a poll asking for F&W to review that issue to see if current regulations is creating an over population problem.

Then they need to explain it as to why they want it that way or agree to fix it. Test netting would need to be done and a size age class distribution done etc. If growth is a problem...then fix it through rotating slot limits or creative limits to bring the population down of a certain size range.

This endeavor is very labor intensive...however...thinking outside the box...I suspect many fishermen would be happy to take a couple days off this year to help with such a project if it meant answers and actions! I would help if Chubby came out!

Sun

P.S. We still must know if there is a reason for what they are doing. Are they trying to build up a spawning population by getting a couple spawning seasons past to test success...or some other management reason other than...too busy to fix the problem.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

X2...issues like this need to be addressed. I would fully support a poll asking for F&W to review that issue to see if current regulations is creating an over population problem.

Then they need to explain it as to why they want it that way or agree to fix it. Test netting would need to be done and a size age class distribution done etc. If growth is a problem...then fix it through rotating slot limits or creative limits to bring the population down of a certain size range.

This endeavor is very labor intensive...however...thinking outside the box...I suspect many fishermen would be happy to take a couple days off this year to help with such a project if it meant answers and actions! I would help if Chubby came out!

Sun

P.S. We still must know if there is a reason for what they are doing. Are they trying to build up a spawning population by getting a couple spawning seasons past to test success...or some other management reason other than...too busy to fix the problem.

We must have clear defined rules if your gonna be in my boat Sun....lol
But thats a great attitude.... a trout addict willing to help the spiney back fishery.

I really dont know what their intention is. I without fail go and watch my babies spawn in 2 locations and im positive the numbers of fish have grown alot in the last 2 years. Ive also noted the sowwed up females dont seem to be as heavily egg burdened. This is the first year i didnt catch a big soggy bellied female grossly filled with eggs ice fishing. The 13lber was a stunning fish but lacked the huge belly.
A friend and respected eye fisherman caught a huge eye this year but it wasnt typical of a Travers soggy bellied eye....with a normal Travers belly it would have shattered the AB record.
Is the fact that they dont seem to be as full of eggs....due to lack of nuitrition or are they drying up from old age?

The other thing ive noticed in the stomachs of the fish i joey.....that there is few ling and more baby pike. Travers big fish used to be perch hunters then about 5 years ago i saw the change to mostly baby pike. Whitefish is high on their diet only in the spring-post spawn in Travers.

There is another lost very quality fishery by the name of Stonehill north east of Enchant....it used to produce RBT to 9 lbs for us. Then pike got in and the stocking stopped.
Yes i agree that pike eat trout.
But why then is there huge schools of trout trying to spawn in pike resovoirs. Is it possible the bow river escapees are smarter?

[goldscud]

Couple of things:
Bullshead has some fish over 25", there should be more this year. I'm surprised Terry feels it is not a productive lake. Most of the lake is under 12ft deep with a deep creek bed running through the middle of the reservoir. There is a healthy scud population that is rebounding after years of excessive trout stocking. Trout can effectively drive a scud population to very low levels and remove almost all pelagic shrimp. Lots of chironomids, caddis, boatmen and lots of minnows. Reduced stocking rates will result in better condition factors for the trout in the years to come.
Duck lake is no longer a trophy rainbow destination. Few fish over 4lb are being caught today. The number of spring "sportsmen" lining the shores to take advantage of ripe fish cruising the gravel has greatly decreased due to decreased availability of fish over about 23" . I'm sure the band is seeing a decrease in licenses sold. We have notified the band biologist of the decrease in trout size and the large increase in the sucker population. The biologist is listening and has responded by setting up traps to remove suckers. In the past, suckers were culled with rotenone on a regular basis. Hopefully trapping a bunch will provide more scuds for the trout to eat. Nice to see a quick response to a fishery where the quality has fallen off dramatically.

[chubbdarter]

i fished Duck alot in my younger years and yes it was a super fishery....my fishing friends down there claim its much different now and not for the better.
Browns were stocked to try control the suckers.

[goldscud]

Still a few browns being stocked. A friend landed a 20 lber years ago on a small nymph.

Irrigation impoundments like Stonehill are surprising gems. There is fish everywhere through the system. Watched some amazing whitefish eating dries one fall on a small lake where I was hunting ducks. I should really go back there with the fly rod.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Pud.. hey i did 10 minutes research.. and those lakes u gave me are not lakes
also i will give u a run down on the others and let you know where the Brood hen go from Allison Creek Hatchery

I am not sure what you mean Speckle?? I posted the following:

"I do not believe Michelle has any fish that big, neither does Mami, Beauvais, Beaver Mines or Lees"

Sorry, but which of these is not a lake? Beauvais is definitely a lake - au natural - and so is Lees. Beaver Mines is a lake that was made bigger by a earthen dam. Michelle and Mami are technically reservoirs I guess, but I fail to see your point.

As for where Brood stock goes, in PP1 the lakes you listed are probably right, however the one I mentioned was from Beaver Mines which is in ES1 (not Terry's area).

Not all brood stock has worn fins, etc. Here is one from Nicholas Sheran in Lethbridge. Again, not me, but a fishing buddy, hooked this +-24" Brown. He really wanted to keep it, and I told him to go for it, but in the end he let it go. When I asked him why he said it was just too nice a fish to take home (he fought it for over 1/2 an hour and it nearly spooled him at one point, running clear across the lake.



By the way, if you want to talk about scuds....



Glad I wasn't wet-wading that day!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

We must have clear defined rules if your gonna be in my boat Sun....lol
But thats a great attitude.... a trout addict willing to help the spiney back fishery.

LOL

I grew up catching pike, walleye, goldeye, whitefish, perch and ling. Trout fishing came when I move away from Edmonton. I will fish anywhere...anytime...for any species...using any method.

It will take a lot more years of trout fishing before I catch up to my other fishing.

I am a purist...insofar as I fish and not golf

As long as you know I am right about everything...we will get along fine in the boat

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

By the way, if you want to talk about scuds....



Glad I wasn't wet-wading that day!

When I was studying perch in northern Alberta we set some gill nets. In the morning we had caught a number of 12-14 inch tiger salamanders...the scuds ate all the limbs off and most of the tails...glad they are not 5 feet long.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

LOL

I grew up catching pike, walleye, goldeye, whitefish, perch and ling. Trout fishing came when I move away from Edmonton. I will fish anywhere...anytime...for any species...using any method.

It will take a lot more years of trout fishing before I catch up to my other fishing.

I am a purist...insofar as I fish and not golf

As long as you know I am right about everything...we will get along fine in the boat

ahhhhhhh...so you admit you can swim......alls good..lol

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

[/COLOR]


ahhhhhhh...so you admit you can swim......alls good..lol

So droll...LOL

I learned to fly fish catching pike, walleye, goldeye and burbot in the North Sask. The 9 inch trout in Hermitage were a big waste of time. When the flies didn't work I chucked pickeral rigs with worms or minnows...when I could I chucked spinners for goldeye and jigs for pike and walleye.

I do miss them days.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

I volunteered my credentials. And I have no background in fisheries. So I am JUST a fisherman too.

So what's this all about then? If you are JUST a fisherman then somehow you don't understand anything about Alberta fisheries? Well, I'll tell you what, when someone is pizzing on my leg and telling me that it's raining I don't need a meteorologist to tell me that it's not.

All the fluff written about how "quality" fisheries.....opportunities........good management..................doesn't change what they are. It's about making it easier for people to catch bigger fish and if you'd like to think of it differently to make yourself feel good about what you want then go for it!

Creating fish farms in order to grow fish bigger to catch will never be accepted by any ethical sportsman, let alone be a legitimate reason for changing P&T lakes. Case in point.........the large opposition from Puddle's F&W club.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

If each side wont budge then it will be left to a higher power and im not so comfortable with that.
One side says leave it alone.....in my mind thats not constructive or open to improvment.
The other side wants changes, if its a way to improve thefishery and not leave everyone out of the picture....we should consider it.

Chub, you have to realize what the number of pro "quality" fishery guys is in comparison to the number of Alberta anglers against it is. The majority of Alberta anglers don't want them and that's why SRD is only willing to give up dead lakes and new bodies of water. Make sense?

If you are only talking about coming to a compromise on this thread then who cares? Let's all agree that we should start a blue marlin fishery because we'd all like to have some good marlin fishing in Alberta. It just doesn't matter.......

The higher power will always decide how to manage our fisheries based on what the majority of Alberta anglers want. I think that what they have offered in the way of "quality" fisheries is a very good compromise however the "quality" guys won't be happy until they take a few lakes from the rest of Alberta anglers.

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Chub, you have to realize what the number of pro "quality" fishery guys is in comparison to the number of Alberta anglers against it is. The majority of Alberta anglers don't want them and that's why SRD is only willing to give up dead lakes and new bodies of water. Make sense?

If you are only talking about coming to a compromise on this thread then who cares? Let's all agree that we should start a blue marlin fishery because we'd all like to have some good marlin fishing in Alberta. It just doesn't matter.......

The higher power will always decide how to manage our fisheries based on what the majority of Alberta anglers want. I think that what they have offered in the way of "quality" fisheries is a very good compromise however the "quality" guys won't be happy until they take a few lakes from the rest of Alberta anglers.

nope on all counts....i actually believe there is a way to improve the fisheries for everyone. I think the effort to build it better and bigger is good forward thinking. Im not sure how to get there though which doesnt help my stand. Im certainly not taking a position on the extreme left or right.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by smitty9

And now, some people who don't like change don't want to share some of the habitat available? I think some old fuddy duddies should go back to Kindergarten. Case in point, Police Outpost Lake. A near perfect candidate for quality regs, but not without some serious opposition. Must EVERY lake be a 5 limit catch and kill dinker lake?

So you think that all Alberta anglers should give up their fishing lakes for every self interest group that is around? I suppose that you are willing to give up some of our lakes to PETA.........I'm pretty sure that they're against any type of fishing. Maybe there are scuba clubs that'd like to sink a ship in a lake to explore and for safety reasons boats shouldn't be allowed on it anymore.

After a province wide campaign by a special interest group(s) Police Outpost Lake was turned into a "quality" lake. We'll never know if that's what the users of the lake wanted or not. It might just as well have been every Tom, Dick and Harry UT guy in the province that railroaded that one through. Now what..........you don't like the guys that got railroaded complaining? Maybe everyone should just bend over and smile for you guys.

If you can't catch a big trout or you don't want to take the time and effort to catch one then why should that be anyone else's problem but your own?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Chub, you have to realize what the number of pro "quality" fishery guys is in comparison to the number of Alberta anglers against it is. The majority of Alberta anglers don't want them and that's why SRD is only willing to give up dead lakes and new bodies of water.

what poll are you looking at dave? if you add up the two options saying guys would like the opportunity at a chance to catch a fish over 22 inches, there is 60% asking "yes please". wiggle down a little to 20 inches and you get 75% in favor.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

nope on all counts....i actually believe there is a way to improve the fisheries for everyone. I think the effort to build it better and bigger is good forward thinking. Im not sure how to get there though which doesnt help my stand. Im certainly not taking a position on the extreme left or right.

The answer is simple.............practice conservation on your own without any regulations forcing you to do so. That way you don't have to force your values on anyone else.

PS. Hopefully you don't use the "quality" philosophy of only keeping the big fish.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Creating fish farms in order to grow fish bigger to catch will never be accepted by any ethical sportsman, let alone be a legitimate reason for changing P&T lakes. Case in point.........the large opposition from Puddle's F&W club.

you should make the trip to bullshead on saturday and ask around 500 guys from all over alberta (based on last year's opener) what they think.

and if you dont mind me asking.....i get it you want to eat fish, but what have you got against big fish? if you have ever caught one, youd know how much more excitement is involved in it. maybe not so much for eating, but for a huge number of fishermen, its the fun of catching that makes guys go to the lake.