Updated May 17 2021 they cut 5 padlocks off gate!Ember Resources defaults on surface rights lease

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

I don’t suppose having to clean up weeds such as kochia, Canada thistle,quack grass, group 1 resistant wild oats, or a lease road full of Shepard’s purse doesn’t seem like an environmental cleanup to you. They all come with a cost and take time and management to take care of. I’ve had to deal with all of the above. That’s why us greedy farmers farm every inch we can.

I’m glad you feel you are a billionaire because of your lease revenue. Bought plenty of ag land myself and feel these leases are nothing more than a liability. Have a couple that aren’t paying and I had to pay extra for the land because of these eyesores.

Relax. As I said, I get both sides with the background in each.

If an oil lease is such a liability, why did you buy the land said lease was on? Seems a poor business decision if that is the case. Good lesson in weeds though

[esher]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Strange.

That isn’t a correct statement.

They have $100 MM repayable loan from Alberta and $200 MM from the liberals.

They have contractor selections in progress to do work.

For your information, oil and gas companies pay for the orphan well fund. Horrible commodity prices and poor federal government policies helped collapse the Alberta industry as bankruptcies abound. While the US was bustling, Alberta languished badly.

Orphan well fund contributions continue to be increased.

Your statement of the process is completely false.

That being said if the well is a simple, cut, cap, abandon with a small surface footprint, a landowner may be able to start farming over top of it.

If their is contamination, it would still be orphan well liability. While there is still work to be done. Surface payments would not be payable normally.

Absolutely not false from my side of the fence, the cut and cap was no reclaim, stuck on the landowner.

[esher]

You don't get it, the money is a bandaid on a festering wound.

[IL Bar]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Relax. As I said, I get both sides with the background in each.

If an oil lease is such a liability, why did you buy the land said lease was on? Seems a poor business decision if that is the case. Good lesson in weeds though

Wow. You’re a genius. Not everyone has an OIL lease. Some of us just have natural gas leases both deep wells and CBM wells. Some of us have also owned some of this land well BEFORE the oil/gas leases showed up. We’ve been fed lies by the landman on what’s going to happen just to get us to sign. Have learned a lot over the years because of them.

Want a poor business decision? Buy land because of that oil/gas revenue. I bought a piece a few years ago that had a couple wells on it only because I owned the land around it. Lucked out and got caught in the Trident BS because of it. A couple years of no rent and no weed control. Now I get to deal with Ember. I also got to deal with them over a couple Apache wells we had and they got. Not a fan of Ember and their BS. They don’t spray or mow anything. This is the fun of owning land with wells. Just a revolving door of who’s gonna try to gouge me next. I still wonder who is going to be left holding the bag when these companies go broke. We’ve watched them waste tons of money over the good years just to fight us over a few nickels in rent.

See that’s what us guys that actually farm do. Buy land to farm. I buy land that’s touching mine when I can. Big blocks create efficiencies and land close by is worth a lot more than land further out. And as I said we were there BEFORE some of these wells showed up. But WTF do I know about business? According to you not much. You are the guy flashing pics on here about how us farmers aren’t entitled to our full rent when we farm up to the lease but maybe guys are like me are just trying to keep ahead of the weeds.

A few of you on here have been to my farm and hunted. Some of you know it and I’ll bet there’s a few of you don’t know that you have. These are the guys you need to ask if it’s too much for guys like me to ask these resource companies to look after their obligations so I don’t have to. And not everything is about money. I’d take a lower rent if they’d look after the lease. I care for the land and want it to be looked after for our next generation.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by esher

Absolutely not false from my side of the fence, the cut and cap was no reclaim, stuck on the landowner.

Get the lease location and talk to the surface rights board, if no reclamation certificate was issued someone else is still liable for that well. If not a company then the orphan well fund.

[esher]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

Get the lease location and talk to the surface rights board, if no reclamation certificate was issued someone else is still liable for that well. If not a company then the orphan well fund.

As i stated the surface right board said all they will do is cut the well head off and you are on your own. The lease has not been touched and still has buildings on it and is more than one. The guy is in his eighties and wont live long enough to get his land back.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Imperial Oil (Exxon) abandoned the entire Leduc oilfield a couple years back so they would not have to complete the well abandonment and environmental clean up. Sold it to a small company that went bankrupt. When big boys do not clean up their mess, what do you think the small fly by night ones with no cash will do. Save your lease revenue in the bank, you may need it.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by esher

As i stated the surface right board said all they will do is cut the well head off and you are on your own. The lease has not been touched and still has buildings on it and is more than one. The guy is in his eighties and wont live long enough to get his land back.

That’s not how it works now or ever as far as I know. Someone is liable for that lease maybe a company maybe the orphan well fund but it’s not the landowners problem, unless he signed something downloading the liability onto himself. That’s one of the carrots the government uses for being able to force surface locations on landowners.

All I did was offer to help, the offer is rescinded. Have a great day!

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Imperial Oil (Exxon) abandoned the entire Leduc oilfield a couple years back so they would not have to complete the well abandonment and environmental clean up. Sold it to a small company that went bankrupt. When big boys do not clean up their mess, what do you think the small fly by night ones with no cash will do. Save your lease revenue in the bank, you may need it.

So IOL abandoned the entire field or the company they sold the field to did? Which is it? Someone's confused
The AER should have never approved the sale of the field if the purchasing company did not have the assets/money to reclaim. That is the holdup on the
Shell/Pieridae deal. AER won't approve it

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Wow. You’re a genius. Not everyone has an OIL lease. Some of us just have natural gas leases both deep wells and CBM wells. Some of us have also owned some of this land well BEFORE the oil/gas leases showed up. We’ve been fed lies by the landman on what’s going to happen just to get us to sign. Have learned a lot over the years because of them.

Want a poor business decision? Buy land because of that oil/gas revenue. I bought a piece a few years ago that had a couple wells on it only because I owned the land around it. Lucked out and got caught in the Trident BS because of it. A couple years of no rent and no weed control. Now I get to deal with Ember. I also got to deal with them over a couple Apache wells we had and they got. Not a fan of Ember and their BS. They don’t spray or mow anything. This is the fun of owning land with wells. Just a revolving door of who’s gonna try to gouge me next. I still wonder who is going to be left holding the bag when these companies go broke. We’ve watched them waste tons of money over the good years just to fight us over a few nickels in rent.

See that’s what us guys that actually farm do. Buy land to farm. I buy land that’s touching mine when I can. Big blocks create efficiencies and land close by is worth a lot more than land further out. And as I said we were there BEFORE some of these wells showed up. But WTF do I know about business? According to you not much. You are the guy flashing pics on here about how us farmers aren’t entitled to our full rent when we farm up to the lease but maybe guys are like me are just trying to keep ahead of the weeds.

A few of you on here have been to my farm and hunted. Some of you know it and I’ll bet there’s a few of you don’t know that you have. These are the guys you need to ask if it’s too much for guys like me to ask these resource companies to look after their obligations so I don’t have to. And not everything is about money. I’d take a lower rent if they’d look after the lease. I care for the land and want it to be looked after for our next generation.

Lol. Can you post without insults?
You seem to be straying here. Topic was about CBM wells. Now you're onto oil wells?
CBM wells are expected to be cropped up to the tec fence.

Anyways, you are in the minority. Most land owners are happy with their lease revenue, hence why they will pay more for land that has it. Far more money than what that chunk of land will make in crop/hay/pasture.
And thanks for the lessons on dirt farming. I seem to have forgotten how it works.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by esher

Orphan well fund is out of money, pal of mine was told they can get the wellhead cut off and you are on your own.

we are demoing 4 sites right now no end in site for us

[wwbirds]

Was a learning experience with what seems to be common problem. While I appreciate all the remarks about great revenue if you only have to turn the auto track off and drive around a 20 X 20 plot for $1800 that is not the case here. with improved pasture we were already on a much lower lease amount than crop gets. not being able to access my land in winter the rutting and pasture damage as well as no weed control are the primary drivers for me locking them out. The contract they bought from Encana was null and void as soon as they defaulted on payment terms and I have no intention of negotiating a new contract with Ember.
As far as the reclamation goes note #4 to Embers financial statements suggests over the years they have expensed over a billion dollars as potential reclamation costs for wells they operate.
Now expensing it does not mean it has been set aside somewhere available for future use. Only that they reduced income by claiming depletion on the wells as a paper expense.
Padlocks (many) chain the gate and the cattle guard will be relocated to an area I can utilize it for the farm yard while the regular post and barb wire fence will be restored so as to allow the ruts and pathways by service trucks to heal and regrow. Being a bird farmer I have stacks of feed pallets that needed a new storage area out of my yard. 2 loads already out to the well site to prevent access by any service vehicles and still lots more to pile on top of those.

[Dean2]

There are a fair number of people posting on here with wide experience and obvious deep knowledge on the subject. My question is, for oil well sites that have had all equipment removed but where the Level 1 assessment has not been done nor any of the reclamation work to get rid of the slash piles, ditches, berms and replace the top soil, are u aware of any regulations that allow the oil company to reduce the annual compensation. As a side note, the clause in the lease that allowed reduction to the annual compensation for loss of use and adverse effect after all equipment was removed has been struck out and installed on the original leases.

These well sites were drilled bit never produced on. Since being drilled In 2007 they have been through a number of oil companies hands, none of whom have initiated reclamation. It would be nice to see these large sites reclaimed but the estimated reclamation costs are very high and represent north of 20 years of annual lease payments. Appreciate any insights.

[JDK71]

i have not seen anything out yet for any of the under ground piping or dirt work yet .

[esher]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

That’s not how it works now or ever as far as I know. Someone is liable for that lease maybe a company maybe the orphan well fund but it’s not the landowners problem, unless he signed something downloading the liability onto himself. That’s one of the carrots the government uses for being able to force surface locations on landowners.

All I did was offer to help, the offer is rescinded. Have a great day!

Someone is liable is a pretty broad statement when that someone packed up and left town, it is the landowners problem because alberta let it get this way and the money is not there. I also don't get you asking if there is a reclaim certificate , of course not its got a well head.

[Jim Blake]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So IOL abandoned the entire field or the company they sold the field to did? Which is it? Someone's confused
The AER should have never approved the sale of the field if the purchasing company did not have the assets/money to reclaim. That is the holdup on the
Shell/Pieridae deal. AER won't approve it

Last I heard Shell was taking more reclamation liability, Shell and Peridae have resubmitted their applications and it was going forward. I still think this deal will come back to haunt us Alberta taxpayers.

[esher]

Originally Posted by JDK71

we are demoing 4 sites right now no end in site for us

Money Trudeau gave us a carrot with.

[Dean2]

I want to thank the guys that took the time to PM me and answer the questions in my last post. It was very helpful to get some additional, well informed information. A big thank you to all of you.

[MrDave]

Just wait until you try to sell your land with an old lease on it. Most if not all banks won't touch it without a reclamation certificate. Calmar is surrounded by land that can't be sold and being boggy, is never likely to be reclaimed. Farm on the edge of Didsbury can't be sold because it was capped but not certified. The days of wells being a selling feature are gone. Funny how many people are now in cahoots with China, and other foreign owners.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

That’s not how it works now or ever as far as I know. Someone is liable for that lease maybe a company maybe the orphan well fund but it’s not the landowners problem, unless he signed something downloading the liability onto himself. That’s one of the carrots the government uses for being able to force surface locations on landowners.

All I did was offer to help, the offer is rescinded. Have a great day!

X2

Landowners is not liable. Never had been. Sometimes for simple sites a landowner may tell the reclamation officer that they will just start farming the land however this doesn’t seem to be the case.

There is a delay often and may be a long delay for when the surface is reclaimed due to the prioritizing of Orphan Well money on high risk or problematic sites first. Still... it would be on their list.

If a company still owns it there may be confusion on the landowners part or maybe it is in bankruptcy protection and some of the surface equipment is to be sold.

I suspect the poster doesn’t understand the facts and has just missed some key points of the story from his friend.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by esher

Someone is liable is a pretty broad statement when that someone packed up and left town, it is the landowners problem because alberta let it get this way and the money is not there. I also don't get you asking if there is a reclaim certificate , of course not its got a well head.

It appears you don’t understand the guys land issues well.

Here you say it has a well head.

Originally Posted by esher

Absolutely not false from my side of the fence, the cut and cap was no reclaim, stuck on the landowner.

Here you say it was cut and capped but no reclamation certificate.

What is it? What exactly is the true full version of this second hand story?

[Sundancefisher]

Good read.

https://www.pembina.org/pub/landowne...-and-gas-wells

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Good read.

https://www.pembina.org/pub/landowne...-and-gas-wells

Taken from the link you provided.

Reclamation is the process through which a company returns the land it disturbed to a functionally equivalent state as it was prior to operations. It is the final step in closing a site. For a site to be certified “reclaimed” a company has to apply for a reclamation certificate.

I am not sure many are aware that the land the well was removed is not returned to the original functionally state. The pipeline remains, the bore remains and the set backs for surface activity are still active.

Jim

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

Taken from the link you provided.

Reclamation is the process through which a company returns the land it disturbed to a functionally equivalent state as it was prior to operations. It is the final step in closing a site. For a site to be certified “reclaimed” a company has to apply for a reclamation certificate.

I am not sure many are aware that the land the well was removed is not returned to the original functionally state. The pipeline remains, the bore remains and the set backs for surface activity are still active.

Jim

Could you elaborate more on your point.

The pipeline should be below ground and shouldn’t have a setback for farming.

The wellbore is cut and capped well below grade and shouldn’t have a setback.

In the article is states to get a reclamation certificate the land needs to be returned to 85% of normal use.

Expectation should see the land edge back to 100% over time as the soil is reconditioned back to the surrounding levels. The area in question for a well site should not on average be that large as many farm over the leased land up to the well site fence around the wellhead.

Curious what you have seen

[esher]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It appears you don’t understand the guys land issues well.

Here you say it has a well head.



Here you say it was cut and capped but no reclamation certificate.

What is it? What exactly is the true full version of this second hand story?

Not what i said at all, i said the orphan well fund said they would cut the wellhead off and then the landowner is on his own . That has not happened. So the well and buildings and berms are still there, so no need to search for a reclaim certificate.

[Simplefarmer]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Could you elaborate more on your point.

The pipeline should be below ground and shouldn’t have a setback for farming.

The wellbore is cut and capped well below grade and shouldn’t have a setback.

In the article is states to get a reclamation certificate the land needs to be returned to 85% of normal use.

Expectation should see the land edge back to 100% over time as the soil is reconditioned back to the surrounding levels. The area in question for a well site should not on average be that large as many farm over the leased land up to the well site fence around the wellhead.

Curious what you have seen

I should not have to worry about building an outbuilding, running services, or subdividing my deeded land where a "certificate" has been issued.

Surface view means nothing when you can't develop your land...

Jim

[esher]

The offer to cut off the wellhead did not include reclaiming the site, i know this man quite well and i know the location he is talking about. As others have stated this may make his property unsellable.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Simplefarmer

I should not have to worry about building an outbuilding, running services, or subdividing my deeded land where a "certificate" has been issued.

Surface view means nothing when you can't develop your land...

Jim

I see. Not a farming question but rather a subdivision for residential development issue.

I would agree. Pipelines under the land would pose an issue. If brought up during surveying that the land was to be developed in that way the pipeline company should move the route.

The pipeline and wells should all be surveyed such that it is easier to do work?

If the pipeline is abandoned you have to make sure it was done correctly.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by esher

Not what i said at all, i said the orphan well fund said they would cut the wellhead off and then the landowner is on his own . That has not happened. So the well and buildings and berms are still there, so no need to search for a reclaim certificate.

Thanks for clarifying. What you have said was confusing.

So as mentioned earlier... orphan well fund does pay for everything if there is no company and no partners in the well. One thing for sure it is not a fast nor expedient process.

They will abandon the well, cut and cap and remediate first. Then do surface reclamation. When it happens depends upon the safety and environment aspects of the site. If relatively benign it could be many years due to the volume of work in the province. If dangerous then it would be done sooner.

Your friend needs to call and talk to the surface rights board and explain the situation as well as the orphan well fund.

He seems confused in the process.

What you stated just isn’t the way the process works.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Imperial Oil (Exxon) abandoned the entire Leduc oilfield a couple years back so they would not have to complete the well abandonment and environmental clean up. Sold it to a small company that went bankrupt. When big boys do not clean up their mess, what do you think the small fly by night ones with no cash will do. Save your lease revenue in the bank, you may need it.

It's called passing the buck, anyone could have his own little oil company with a well or two and workable on a small scale. I know of a couple, always wondered if these guys knew the potential liability they were taking on ? Shell just sold it's gas plants to some venture company that had trouble raising the cash, I'm waiting for the train wreck.

Grizz