Oilers Fans Matter

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So Calgary is going to make the playoffs, and should win a round or two.... maybe. With the need around the league for goal tending and the desire to have 2 NHL ready goaltenders, do the Flames really want Rittich going to free agency. On Cap friendly he is only under contract until the end of this year. If you ask me now, the guy seems like he is having so much that he would play for free but it is still a gamble when other teams will have the opportunity to make offers.

They do not want Rittich to be a UFA, but I doubt they care if he becomes a RFA.

[Trochu]

Heard on 1260 that the team has either met, or is meeting with Darryl Sutter this week.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

The Edmonton Oilers were NOT a better hockey team after any or all of those guys left town,

The point I was making was the Oilers won a cup after he was traded. You made it sound like they went in the dumpster when he left. Of course they weren't better, as I'd said those weren't hockey trades, they were financial moves. You're beating an apples and oranges dead horse here when you continue to make that point.

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

There's going to be several teams in the same boat in short order, so I guess we're going to find out pretty quick what the new NHL looks like, but 9-10 MM/per is going to become pretty common is my guess.

That 9-10MM/year is common or not is irrelevant. It's really a percentage of cap total and value/return on your investment when you sign a player.

If you can afford to be a cap team, 9MM on a 100MM cap is different than 8.5MM on a 70MM cap.

Draisaitl fails both tests. His $8.5MM/yr as a percentage of the cap when he signed is out of proportion to what he's delivered as a player. Then there's also the question of what is his return on investment on $8.5MM/yr (for 8 years) regardless of what the cap is?

[223MB]

Originally Posted by sgill808

I was listening to Sportsnet Radio and I think Elliott Freedman was on (I cant remember who it was exactly), but he said the Oilers have the worst winning percentage out of every major sports team, not just the NHL, in North America since Katz bought the team.

Worse than the Cleveland browns? I find that extremely hard to believe.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Heard on 1260 that the team has either met, or is meeting with Darryl Sutter this week.

Oh that's wonderful. Perhaps Darryl could sign Tony Amonti or Jeff Freisen when they're well past their prime like he did in Calgary.

His record as a coach is stellar. His record as a GM? Meh

[gman1978]

One thing I have really noticed is the how much flames fans know about the Oilers. Its really odd. Especially the older flames fans, but imagine watching your rivals win 5 cups while your team came so close and was very good in its own right. That would be tough for any fan base and burn a deep hatred that carry's on today. Lots of Oiler haters out there that really like to rub what a joke the oilers have become. But... The flames haven't won anything in 30 year's either so I am not sure why they are so cocky.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by gman1978

One thing I have really noticed is the how much flames fans know about the Oilers. Its really odd.

Flames fans generally are very passionate about the game, knowledgeable, and have a high hockey IQ, hence the reason they are Flames fans. Not odd at all as a byproduct of this is that they know alot about other teams in the league as well.

[millartech]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So Calgary is going to make the playoffs, and should win a round or two.... maybe. With the need around the league for goal tending and the desire to have 2 NHL ready goaltenders, do the Flames really want Rittich going to free agency. On Cap friendly he is only under contract until the end of this year. If you ask me now, the guy seems like he is having so much that he would play for free but it is still a gamble when other teams will have the opportunity to make offers.

I never said let him get to free agency. I said I wouldn't sign him mid season based on 24 games. I would wait till after the season to get a better idea of his worth. There is a period between end of season to free agency that this could happen.

A mid season signing based on 24 games looks like desperation especially if you look at the inconsistent play of Koskinen. First 7 games great number (approx 930 save percentage and sub 2.00 GAA) then terrible number after (sub 900 save percentage and plus 3.00 GAA). They should have waited till end of season or at least until a new GM was hired. Now the new GM is saddled with this contract. I guess that also shows that the GM is nothing more then a place holder in the Edm org and the decisions all come from elsewhere.



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[Roderek]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Oh that's wonderful. Perhaps Darryl could sign Tony Amonti or Jeff Freisen when they're well past their prime like he did in Calgary.

His record as a coach is stellar. His record as a GM? Meh

I would venture his record as a GM is better then Chia...

[millartech]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I would venture his record as a GM is better then Chia...

That would like saying he is the smartest guy in the remedial group.

He was a great HC, but his time as GM, was not good. Trade record just slightly better then Chia. Poor draft record as well.

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[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by YYC338

The point I was making was the Oilers won a cup after he was traded. You made it sound like they went in the dumpster when he left. Of course they weren't better, as I'd said those weren't hockey trades, they were financial moves. You're beating an apples and oranges dead horse here when you continue to make that point.

Actually, you're the one that chose to single out those players and that team from a long list and beat it to death, while completely ignoring the rest.

Call it what you will, moving your elite players out of town does not end well.

That 9-10MM/year is common or not is irrelevant. It's really a percentage of cap total and value/return on your investment when you sign a player.

If you can afford to be a cap team, 9MM on a 100MM cap is different than 8.5MM on a 70MM cap.

Draisaitl fails both tests. His $8.5MM/yr as a percentage of the cap when he signed is out of proportion to what he's delivered as a player. Then there's also the question of what is his return on investment on $8.5MM/yr (for 8 years) regardless of what the cap is?

I completely agree that percentage of cap is key. As I already posted, but again, you ignored, the percentage of cap for McDavid/Draisatl is directly comparable to Toews/Kane and Crosby/Malkin - WHEN THEY WERE SIGNED. It only looks better with time as the cap number goes up.

Understanding that the cap WILL go up, you have to look at the big picture when you're talking 6-8 year deals, or even the first 2-3 year window. Those "irrelevent" $8-10 MM/per deals that are going to happen this offseason will be signed on next year's $83M total cap. Before the puck drops on the 2019/2020 season, there will several directly comparable players with cap hits that are the same percentage of the total cap as Draisaitl's. That was the point.

So now it's just a matter of how you rate Draisaitl's value compared to those other players and contracts that are going to be signed. I'm not a Draisaitl fan boy by any stretch, there's holes in his game and a lack of effort on way too many nights. I'm yelling at him all the time some nights. I agree that $8.5MM/per is a stretch right now, BUT, he's the 9th leading scorer in the NHL on a team that struggles to score goals. You can dump on that fact however you want, we've all heard it a million times and have our biases, and I'm sure we could fill three pages debating it, but in the end, the guy plays a TON of minutes and is proving to be an elite scorer that can play the PP and the PK. That gets you a big fat pay day.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Flames fans generally are very passionate about the game, knowledgeable, and have a high hockey IQ, hence the reason they are Flames fans. Not odd at all as a byproduct of this is that they know alot about other teams in the league as well.

So exactly when are those particular fans going to share their knowledge on this thread? Anxiously awaiting this high hockey IQ input from said flames fans

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by gman1978

One thing I have really noticed is the how much flames fans know about the Oilers. Its really odd. Especially the older flames fans, but imagine watching your rivals win 5 cups while your team came so close and was very good in its own right. That would be tough for any fan base and burn a deep hatred that carry's on today. Lots of Oiler haters out there that really like to rub what a joke the oilers have become. But... The flames haven't won anything in 30 year's either so I am not sure why they are so cocky.

Nothing odd about it at all. Flames fans are hockey fans. Oilers are a traditional rival (though not so much lately) so of course we pay attention to them. It's kinda painful sometimes too. It was obvious you were going to mention the 5 Holy Dynasty cups before I finished reading the first sentence, good on you for being predictable if somewhat tedious. Flames won theirs 30 years ago, and the last time Oilers won was 29 years ago, and the last time Leafs won was 52 years ago, and who cares? Current events have more bearing, but feel free to live in the 80s.

As a Flames fan, I actually have never hated the Oilers, it's a sport. Now some of their fans, I came close to disliking. Mostly now it's just genuine pity for Connor and all the ripped off fans. As far as being 'cocky'...nah. But we sure are genuinely enjoying a great season. Not planning any parades, but what a fun and competitive team to watch.

Careful with bitterness, it will make you sick.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by gman1978

One thing I have really noticed is the how much flames fans know about the Oilers. Its really odd.

Agreed lol.

I can honestly say I've never read a single post in the Flames thread, let alone felt the need to post in it.

I couldn't even name more than 5-6 current Flames players, I just really don't care.

[Walleyedude]

Not sure who would be worse, Burke or Sutter.

Please, please, PLEASE don't let it be either of those guys.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Nothing odd about it at all. Flames fans are hockey fans. Oilers are a traditional rival (though not so much lately) so of course we pay attention to them. It's kinda painful sometimes too. It was obvious you were going to mention the 5 Holy Dynasty cups before I finished reading the first sentence, good on you for being predictable if somewhat tedious. Flames won theirs 30 years ago, and the last time Oilers won was 29 years ago, and the last time Leafs won was 52 years ago, and who cares? Current events have more bearing, but feel free to live in the 80s.

As a Flames fan, I actually have never hated the Oilers, it's a sport. Now some of their fans, I came close to disliking. Mostly now it's just genuine pity for Connor and all the ripped off fans. As far as being 'cocky'...nah. But we sure are genuinely enjoying a great season. Not planning any parades, but what a fun and competitive team to watch.

Careful with bitterness, it will make you sick.

I don't remember the 80's but some of the older flames fans sure do and it stick's with them to this day.. What i was getting at is it must have been tough to watch the flames ( who also had a great team) not win and their rivals did. There are other examples in other sports. That memory doesn't go away and when they have a chance to lay their boots into the Oilers they do. I still find it odd how much some flames fans know and care about what the Oilers are doing. That just my opinion.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So Calgary is going to make the playoffs, and should win a round or two.... maybe. With the need around the league for goal tending and the desire to have 2 NHL ready goaltenders, do the Flames really want Rittich going to free agency. On Cap friendly he is only under contract until the end of this year. If you ask me now, the guy seems like he is having so much that he would play for free but it is still a gamble when other teams will have the opportunity to make offers.

Just for kicks and giggles, say that on the first game back from the All Star Break, Rittich tears an ACL and is done for the season. Smith is now the number one goalie. Do the flames go beyond the first round?

BW

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So exactly when are those particular fans going to share their knowledge on this thread? Anxiously awaiting this high hockey IQ input from said flames fans

Oh it's there. For the most part we're just trying to match the hockey IQ of most of the posts in this thread from soiler fans. Don't want too much to go over their heads.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Agreed lol.

I can honestly say I've never read a single post in the Flames thread, let alone felt the need to post in it.

I couldn't even name more than 5-6 current Flames players, I just really don't care.

Sounds like something the Old Boys Club running your current organization might say as well, and there in lies the problem.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

So exactly when are those particular fans going to share their knowledge on this thread? Anxiously awaiting this high hockey IQ input from said flames fans

We have, and you guys either make excuses or fall back to the '80's. Oilers are going to suck, Talbot's SA% has regressed every year since his rookie year except one and he is terrible, Rattie isn't as good as his preseason indicates, Leon is not good without McDavid, no, we shouldn't start Smith vs the Oilers, etc. etc.

But yes, my comment was more tongue in cheek. Being a hockey fan, I find it odd that another supposed fan thinks it's odd that I follow the moves of both provincial teams and our biggest rival. Talk about following your team in a bubble.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by gman1978

I don't remember the 80's but some of the older flames fans sure do and it stick's with them to this day.. What i was getting at is it must have been tough to watch the flames ( who also had a great team) not win and their rivals did. There are other examples in other sports. That memory doesn't go away and when they have a chance to lay their boots into the Oilers they do. I still find it odd how much some flames fans know and care about what the Oilers are doing. That just my opinion.

I would agree that the Oil do not have the same level of fans. Thanks for recognizing it.

I am worried the Oil has lost out on a whole generation of fans. It's kinda like the Oil should be in the CFL. 12 years of constant screw ups will hurt a fan base. Any other location than Canada and this franchise would have left. Interesting article about how the GM has changed, the coach has changed but yet all the 80's guys are still around. You should watch the video calling for everyone to be turfed a 100% clean sweep. I wouldn't be surprised if Joey is the only one left standing.
https://youtu.be/5ZU-AGMn1V0

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Just for kicks and giggles, say that on the first game back from the All Star Break, Rittich tears an ACL and is done for the season. Smith is now the number one goalie. Do the flames go beyond the first round?

BW

Whats your point? Almost every team out there except a elite few are done if they are counting on their backup to take them deep. Do the Sharks get beyond the first round with Dell, does Vegas go beyond the first round with Subban, do the Wild go beyond the first round with Stalock, remember how good Brossoit is, how far do the Jets go with him?

But yes, I think they could beat Edmonton, Arizona, Vancouver, Colorado, etc. with Smith.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Trochu

We have, and you guys either make excuses or fall back to the '80's. Oilers are going to suck, Talbot's SA% has regressed every year since his rookie year except one and he is terrible, Rattie isn't as good as his preseason indicates, Leon is not good without McDavid, no, we shouldn't start Smith vs the Oilers, etc. etc.

But yes, my comment was more tongue in cheek. Being a hockey fan, I find it odd that another supposed fan thinks it's odd that I follow the moves of both provincial teams and our biggest rival. Talk about following your team in a bubble.

My post was also a little tongue in cheek. Thought it was actually kinda witty, maybe it was just me . More picking at one flames poster on here who believes his hockey IQ is a little higher than it actually is.
Not that I brought up the 80' oilers, but what exactly is wrong with bringing up the past? How far should one be going back? Last year when neither team made the playoffs? Is 2 years too far back to bring up the Flames getting swept in the first round and the oilers getting close to making it past the 2nd round?
Flames will no doubt finish far ahead of the oilers this year, and I think they have a chance to do well in the playoffs....depending on matchups. Playoffs are totally different hockey, and the flames don't have much experience with it. If they go up against some of the heavier teams with experience, they may be in trouble (a trade deadline pickup or two may be all that is needed). But I could be wrong and they might go all the way.
I'm waiting for next year.....

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Just for kicks and giggles, say that on the first game back from the All Star Break, Rittich tears an ACL and is done for the season. Smith is now the number one goalie. Do the flames go beyond the first round?

BW

I hate to say it (not a Flames fan), but they probably do. Even with less than stellar goaltending by Smith this year, they have outscored their opponents by 45 goals over 51 games. A solid defensive core coupled with good offence can really bail a goalie out, it worked for Fuhr for a decade in Edmonton (albeit the game has completely evolved).

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I would agree that the Oil do not have the same level of fans. Thanks for recognizing it.

I am worried the Oil has lost out on a whole generation of fans. It's kinda like the Oil should be in the CFL. 12 years of constant screw ups will hurt a fan base. Any other location than Canada and this franchise would have left. Interesting article about how the GM has changed, the coach has changed but yet all the 80's guys are still around. You should watch the video calling for everyone to be turfed a 100% clean sweep. I wouldn't be surprised if Joey is the only one left standing.
https://youtu.be/5ZU-AGMn1V0

I agree most oilers fans couldn’t name a Calgary flame after the top line. They just don’t seem to care. It’s kind of the opposite as most flames fans know the whole oilers depth chart. It’s just my observation.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by gman1978

I agree most oilers fans couldn’t name a Calgary flame after the top line. They just don’t seem to care. It’s kind of the opposite as most flames fans know the whole oilers depth chart. It’s just my observation.

I could probably name a dozen or more players, several lineups, defensive pairings, starting goalie, etc. on every team in the league. I don't watch alot of games, but I am in two hockey pools and probably follow it closer than I should. I'm a fan of the game though, not just a Flames fan. Seems to me that someone saying they couldn't name more than a handful of players on a team two hours away is just an Oiler fan, not a hockey fan. No problem with that though.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Is 2 years too far back to bring up the Flames getting swept in the first round......

Yes, yes it is.

[ReconWilly]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Worse than the Cleveland browns? I find that extremely hard to believe.

They likely don't count NFL teams because the NFL legally classify themselves as "sports entertainment" NOT "competitive sports" (same as WWE pro wrestling)

https://youtu.be/O5eg1CXmXrQ

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Is 2 years too far back to bring up the Flames getting swept in the first round and the oilers getting close to making it past the 2nd round?

I'm not an Oilers fan. I consider myself more of a hockey fan.
Also, I'm not a Flames fan.

Here's my free advice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGXn249Fc0
The 80's are like heroin to Oilers fans.
The present team is doing poorly, but just bring up the 80's and the 5 cups and all is well again.

Here's some more free advice.
Purge everyone who has any connection to the 80's.
Consider it step 1 of a twelve step program.

Originally Posted by gman1978

One thing I have really noticed is the how much flames fans know about the Oilers. Its really odd.

Not odd at all. What's more interesting;
a train?
or a train wreck?

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Not sure who would be worse, Burke or Sutter.

Burke. It's not even close.
Then Sutter.
Best to stay away from both. Sutter might work as a coach for a couple of years, but as a GM, just stay away.
(more free advice)

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Roderek

Sounds like something the Old Boys Club running your current organization might say as well, and there in lies the problem.

Ha, pretty good actually.

The thing is, I didn't say I don't watch a lot of hockey, just that I don't care about the Flames or want to talk about them with their fans on a message board.

Big difference.