What are your thoughts on this .

[Winch101]

Fresh off the communist broadcasting corporation.

American psychiatrist says that very small percentage
Of the violent crimes in the USA are committed by people
With mental illness . It is unfair to label people with
Mental illness as violent offenders.

The hostess missed the opportunity to ask ,Does that
Then mean that most of the school massacres ,sniper shootings ,
Children drowning and wife killings are committed by normal
Well adjusted citizens .
That these heinous crimes are committed by everyday people
Just having a bad day .

Kind of chilling if that's the professional take on this.

So I am grateful for the AO forum keeps me from going postal before noon most days..

[58thecat]

In a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

In a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!

I agree, throw out the insanity plea, see where they land. If they truley are insane and commit these crimes then think real hard about how to make them well, just before you throw the switch.
PG

[HunterDave]

The problem is that the Loony Toons doing the mass shootings often don't care about the punishment and off themselves anyway.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Winch101

Fresh off the communist broadcasting corporation.

American psychiatrist says that very small percentage
Of the violent crimes in the USA are committed by people
With mental illness . It is unfair to label people with
Mental illness as violent offenders.

The hostess missed the opportunity to ask ,Does that
Then mean that most of the school massacres ,sniper shootings ,
Children drowning and wife killings are committed by normal
Well adjusted citizens .
That these heinous crimes are committed by everyday people
Just having a bad day .

Kind of chilling if that's the professional take on this.

So I am grateful for the AO forum keeps me from going postal before noon most days..

I don't think it means that. The massacres are a small percentage of the overall violence. That being the case, even if the people doing the massacres are all mentally ill, it still is a small percentage of the overall violence being committed. All people are evil, some are more evil than others. Just because you commit evil acts, does not label you as mentally ill.........it's the normal human condition. What sets people apart is those who want to be delivered from it and those who live by it.........with lots of lesser evil inbetween

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The problem is that the Loony Toons doing the mass shootings often don't care about the punishment and off themselves anyway.

If they witness a hangin' they would whistle a different toon...accountability for actions. We did not just all of a sudden evolve to this, it has been going on since man kind evolved only difference now is there are soooo many excuses for why we act the way we do....ohhh woeh is me, poor me so hard done by

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by ehntr

All people are evil, some are more evil than others. Just because you commit evil acts, does not label you as mentally ill.........it's the normal human condition.

I generally agree with you but not on this. I believe the normal condition of people is good. Just look at children. Something has to happen to you in your life or in your head to make you become 'evil' IMO.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

in a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...i tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!

+100%

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I generally agree with you but not on this. I believe the normal condition of people is good. Just look at children. Something has to happen to you in your life or in your head to make you become 'evil' IMO.

All children are born innocent; each passing day that a child comes into contact with the world leads him into temptations he never new existed. Good and evil exist in all of us........becoming evil is not the measurement. Resisting evil is the measurement.

[MK2750]

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

X10 Excellent post, well said.

[kronk]

I heard that too, and I think the ''Expert'' was trying to defend the legitimate autism/downs syndrome/asbergers types, and forgetting about the insane...

[Whiskey Wish]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

Thank you! It is a small relief knowing that there still exists some common sense and intelligence in the world.

There can be NO health without COMPLETE health, physical, emotional AND mental health should be viewed, and treated, as ONE!

How many people here have their Mental Health First Aid certificate?
Regards,
Dave.

[Redfrog]

In a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!"


I hear this kind of thing a lot.

I wonder what the recidivism rate would be with these policies in place as opposed to the way things are done today?

How many enter our legal system and turn their lives around after one or two visits?

[mudbug]

Part of the problem maybe that some psychaitrists are out of touch with reality themselves. A normal person does not shoot people as a general rule wouldn't you think?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by mudbug

Part of the problem maybe that some psychaitrists are out of touch with reality themselves. A normal person does not shoot people as a general rule wouldn't you think?

Soldiers are normal people asked to do un-normal things, with the hope things will return to normal.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

In a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!"


I hear this kind of thing a lot.

I wonder what the recidivism rate would be with these policies in place as opposed to the way things are done today?

How many enter our legal system and turn their lives around after one or two visits?

Your asking the questions, I guess now we need answers, dig deep, take your time after all its your (our) time and money spent right now on some very bad, evil people living in a very nice environment for horrible crimes committed waiting for a solution brought forth as to why they did what they did...no accountability for thier actions.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Soldiers are normal people asked to do un-normal things, with the hope things will return to normal.

Agreed, these men and women as with the men and women of law enforcement put their lives and their sanity on the line when they are confronted with violence in the line of duty. It takes a special kind of person to do this on a daily basis. Thank you for your service to keep us safe.
PG

[fishunter327]

Originally Posted by MK2750

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?.

Very good post MK. People with depression may not seek the help they need.Depression does not fix itself and can only get worse if not dealt with.We need to give the people that need help all the support we can and not stigmatize them. Drepression is treatable.

[dumoulin]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

Good post

[dumoulin]

Originally Posted by mudbug

Part of the problem maybe that some psychaitrists are out of touch with reality themselves. A normal person does not shoot people as a general rule wouldn't you think?

I disagree. Normal people shoot others all the time, it`s usually the situation that`s abnormal. That said, the bad ones, the ones we collectively remember, those that are truly ugly are committed by the untreatable, or more often than not, undiagnosed mentally ill.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by dumoulin

I disagree. Normal people shoot others all the time, it`s usually the situation that`s abnormal. That said, the bad ones, the ones we collectively remember, those that are truly ugly are committed by the untreatable, or more often than not, undiagnosed mentally ill.

What's normal? I'ts judged on a bell curve and as the population changes, so does the definition.

Stumbled on this little bit last night, in a book I'm reading on Child killers.

Top disciplinary problems identified by high school teachers.

1940

talking out of turn
chewing gum
running in the hall
cutting in line
dress code violation
littering

1990

drug abuse
alcohol abuse
pregnancy
suicide
rape
robbery
assault.

Gotta admit society went wrong somewhere.

Grizz

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

Agreed, these men and women as with the men and women of law enforcement put their lives and their sanity on the line when they are confronted with violence in the line of duty. It takes a special kind of person to do this on a daily basis. Thank you for your service to keep us safe.
PG

God bless each and everyone of them...

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!

I tend to disagree with this assertion. Sheriff Joe in Arizona ain't no picnic in the park and he seems not wanting for customers. Texas executes people and seem to have no shortage of clients so to speak.

Society has to change. Till that happens we are only going to go faster and deeper into the hole we are in now.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

Another vote for well said!

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Approximately 1 in 4 people suffer from some sort of mental illness. That would include members of our families, friends, hunting partners etc. etc.

The problem is the stigma attached to admitting something is not quite right and getting the help that is needed.

How many among us would admit to feeling depressed or anxious knowing full well that a diagnosis of mental illness, regardless of how minor, could affect our ability to own firearms?

Left untreated people often isolate themselves and the problem worsens. Suicide is often the result however we all know too well what else can manifest.

We have to find a way where the 1 in 4 people suffering from mental illness are not lumped in with the 1 in 20 that have serious mental illness and more importantly the 1 in 1,000,000 that go on a killing spree.

It is not mental illness that is the problem. It is how our society deals with this common ailment and the social embarrassment associated with the admission of having a problem. When we make broad statements like "mental illness is the real culprit here!" we are inadvertently sentencing more of our friends and family to a life time of needless suffering and isolation.

Over 30,000 people kill themselves (approx 10 per 100,000) each year in the USA. 90% of these people have a diagnosable disorder that is often very treatable. Mental illness is the number one disability in Canada and the USA yet most would rather admit they have herpes than deal with a mental health issue.

"Criminal insanity" and "mental disorder" should not be interchangeable in a conversation about violent crime anymore than "heart burn" and "heart attack". They are simply different conditions.

I guess you'd have to start by defining what is a mental disorder. Easy to say 1 in 4, but does being a clean freak or a compulsive picture straighter mean you're mentally ill ?

Grizz

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

I guess you'd have to start by defining what is a mental disorder. Easy to say 1 in 4, but does being a clean freak or a compulsive picture straighter mean you're mentally ill ?

Grizz

It most certainly does. Left unchecked people become afraid to leave their homes for fear of leaving the stove on or something else that seems trivial to most. Excessive compulsive disorder is very common and controllable in most cases with counseling. Often just talking with someone (anyone) about it lessens the symptoms to manageable. It makes less sense when spoken out loud.

Addiction is another common disorder. The AAers like to say "admitting you have a problem is the most important step". Everyone is afraid to admit they have a problem because of the stigma attached so anonymous is the only way the program works. Imagine how much more successful the program would be if people didn't have to keep it to themselves like a dirty little secret. They are just suffering from an illness after all.

It is time we realized how common mental illness is and stop treating the 25% of us that suffer like second class citizens. Treatment very often completely cures an individual or at least makes their life manageable.

The first step in making this problem go away is to stop stereotyping people with an illness. The vast majority of people with mental issues are of no threat to anyone but themselves. The only reason they suffer and escalate is because of society's ignorance of the problem.

[dumoulin]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

What's normal? I'ts judged on a bell curve and as the population changes, so does the definition.

Stumbled on this little bit last night, in a book I'm reading on Child killers.

Top disciplinary problems identified by high school teachers.

1940

talking out of turn
chewing gum
running in the hall
cutting in line
dress code violation
littering

1990

drug abuse
alcohol abuse
pregnancy
suicide
rape
robbery
assault.

Gotta admit society went wrong somewhere.

Grizz

What's the name of the book? Sounds interesting.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by MK2750

It most certainly does. Left unchecked people become afraid to leave their homes for fear of leaving the stove on or something else that seems trivial to most. Excessive compulsive disorder is very common and controllable in most cases with counseling. Often just talking with someone (anyone) about it lessens the symptoms to manageable. It makes less sense when spoken out loud.

Addiction is another common disorder. The AAers like to say "admitting you have a problem is the most important step". Everyone is afraid to admit they have a problem because of the stigma attached so anonymous is the only way the program works. Imagine how much more successful the program would be if people didn't have to keep it to themselves like a dirty little secret. They are just suffering from an illness after all.

It is time we realized how common mental illness is and stop treating the 25% of us that suffer like second class citizens. Treatment very often completely cures an individual or at least makes their life manageable.

The first step in making this problem go away is to stop stereotyping people with an illness. The vast majority of people with mental issues are of no threat to anyone but themselves. The only reason they suffer and escalate is because of society's ignorance of the problem.

Why do we need to be so soft on everyone? You think I don't have bad days? You think I don't get bloody frustrated? There are times when I think of doing terrible things to people, you know why I don't? Because I know better.
This is the same line of thinking that leads to all of the entitlement that we have going on. You think is kind of issue didn't exist years ago? It did, we told the slow kid in class to suck it up and try harder, not made a special class too make sure that they felt adequate. Guess what the world needs ditch diggers and honest labourers as well.

Why does everyone get to complain to someone about the problems they have? What happened to being accountable for your actions and sucking it up and dealing with your own reality?

I know let's medicate everyone to the point they cannot function without their pills! Great idea, then when they forget to take them and go off the deep end we can blame the fact that they were dependent on the meds to level them out. No consequences, no problem.

Go cry to someone else. There are people who have problems that deal with them every day and function just fine without meds or talking to someone about their feelings.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Mickey

Why do we need to be so soft on everyone? You think I don't have bad days? You think I don't get bloody frustrated? There are times when I think of doing terrible things to people, you know why I don't? Because I know better.
This is the same line of thinking that leads to all of the entitlement that we have going on. You think is kind of issue didn't exist years ago? It did, we told the slow kid in class to suck it up and try harder, not made a special class too make sure that they felt adequate. Guess what the world needs ditch diggers and honest labourers as well.

Why does everyone get to complain to someone about the problems they have? What happened to being accountable for your actions and sucking it up and dealing with your own reality?

I know let's medicate everyone to the point they cannot function without their pills! Great idea, then when they forget to take them and go off the deep end we can blame the fact that they were dependent on the meds to level them out. No consequences, no problem.

Go cry to someone else. There are people who have problems that deal with them every day and function just fine without meds or talking to someone about their feelings.

And here lies the problem. These people are not "sucking it up" they are going over the edge and killing innocent people. The fall out is "do gooders" banning firearms because they lack the intelligence to realize the true root of the problem. They don't understand the cause so they blame the weapon.

You will never meet a more "sink or swim" type of conservative than I. This is not about people slower than others or too lazy to get on with life. We are talking about people with an illness.

If you think that having a bad day or having violent thoughts and not acting out is somehow controlling mental illness you are sadly mistaken. We all have bad days and we all have crazy thoughts go through our minds.

These people suffer from a physical illness that affects their mental well being. Their thoughts are not normal. Many are extremely intelligent and very successful.

Your view of the subject is like telling a cancer patient to get off that radiation and chemo crap and get a job. You like many others simply don't understand.

You are right in saying that the vast majority of mental illness is no big deal and you are also right in that sometimes a blunt dose of reality is all that is needed.

That was the purpose of my post.

Someone says "mentally ill" and you are thrown into a group with sociopathic murders. People do not seek help because they do not want this to happen.

Would you like to loose a family member to a disease that is curable because they are too embarrassed to come forward. If you have a daughter you better learn about eating disorders.

•One in 200 American women suffers from anorexia.

•Two to three in 100 American women suffers from bulimia.

•1.1% - 4.2% of females suffer from bulimia nervosa in their lifetime.

•As many as 10% of college women suffer from a clinical or nearly clinical eating disorder, including 5.1% who suffer from bulimia nervosa.

•Studies indicate that by their first year of college, 4.5 to 18% of women and 0.4% of men have a history of bulimia.

You say go cry to someone else?

The number one cause of disability in the USA and Canada is mental illness.

Do you realize how much this is costing you?

Do you realize how you would feel if you were to loose a loved one to mental illness? Whether through suicide or a victim of violent crime I would bet money your view of meds and therapy would change rather quickly.

If people could get treated for these common disorders without ridicule (like in your post) we could allow the 1 in 4 to lead a more normal life, identify the 1 in 20 that are becoming seriously ill and unable to cope, and more importantly get the truly insane off the streets before they start killing people.

Please educate yourself on this important issue. I guarantee you there is someone in your life that could use some support and understanding.