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  #31  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:13 PM
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Don K Don K is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
What's normal? I'ts judged on a bell curve and as the population changes, so does the definition.

Stumbled on this little bit last night, in a book I'm reading on Child killers.

Top disciplinary problems identified by high school teachers.

1940

talking out of turn
chewing gum
running in the hall
cutting in line
dress code violation
littering

1990

drug abuse
alcohol abuse
pregnancy
suicide
rape
robbery
assault.

Gotta admit society went wrong somewhere.

Grizz
Yep... As a society we are becoming soft... Everyone has an excuse for everything and everything is labelled. Used to be as a kid there were always a few that were a bit 'off' now hose kids are singled out and labelled with some type of challenge or disorder.
Secondly, which I think is a HUGE factor, kids aren't disciplined at all anymore. Every generation we get softer and softer. Look at a kid wrong and morose is screaming abuse and taking them away... Corporal punishment is not a bad thing. There should be consequences from a young age. I'm not suggesting you beat your kids but they should understand a spanking and schools should still have a strap IMO... Generally very few kids today have the respect that we did as children towards our elders, and for that matter our peers. It's quite sad and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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  #32  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:19 PM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
In a nut shell people are no longer held accountable for thier actions. If we saw chain gangs cleaning ditches, fed bread and water with a meat meal at night and returning to a concrete cell, a blanket and bathed once a week with a high pressure hose along with the worst crimes dealt with to a severity of a hanging...I tell you what these individuals would make better choices before commiting a crime!
Yeah... they'd make sure no witnesses were left behind.
Thats why kidnapping is no longer a capital crime.

When we did all of those things... we had a higher violent crime rate and criminals felt they had nothing to lose by killing potential witnesses.
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  #33  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:25 PM
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Mickey Mickey is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
And here lies the problem. These people are not "sucking it up" they are going over the edge and killing innocent people. The fall out is "do gooders" banning firearms because they lack the intelligence to realize the true root of the problem. They don't understand the cause so they blame the weapon.

You will never meet a more "sink or swim" type of conservative than I. This is not about people slower than others or too lazy to get on with life. We are talking about people with an illness.

If you think that having a bad day or having violent thoughts and not acting out is somehow controlling mental illness you are sadly mistaken. We all have bad days and we all have crazy thoughts go through our minds.

These people suffer from a physical illness that affects their mental well being. Their thoughts are not normal. Many are extremely intelligent and very successful.

Your view of the subject is like telling a cancer patient to get off that radiation and chemo crap and get a job. You like many others simply don't understand.

You are right in saying that the vast majority of mental illness is no big deal and you are also right in that sometimes a blunt dose of reality is all that is needed.

That was the purpose of my post.

Someone says "mentally ill" and you are thrown into a group with sociopathic murders. People do not seek help because they do not want this to happen.

Would you like to loose a family member to a disease that is curable because they are too embarrassed to come forward. If you have a daughter you better learn about eating disorders.

•One in 200 American women suffers from anorexia.

•Two to three in 100 American women suffers from bulimia.

•1.1% - 4.2% of females suffer from bulimia nervosa in their lifetime.

•As many as 10% of college women suffer from a clinical or nearly clinical eating disorder, including 5.1% who suffer from bulimia nervosa.

•Studies indicate that by their first year of college, 4.5 to 18% of women and 0.4% of men have a history of bulimia.

You say go cry to someone else?

The number one cause of disability in the USA and Canada is mental illness.

Do you realize how much this is costing you?

Do you realize how you would feel if you were to loose a loved one to mental illness? Whether through suicide or a victim of violent crime I would bet money your view of meds and therapy would change rather quickly.

If people could get treated for these common disorders without ridicule (like in your post) we could allow the 1 in 4 to lead a more normal life, identify the 1 in 20 that are becoming seriously ill and unable to cope, and more importantly get the truly insane off the streets before they start killing people.

Please educate yourself on this important issue. I guarantee you there is someone in your life that could use some support and understanding.

My problem is that you are lumping in alot of issues that are not issues that cause someone to go and shoot up a school full of kids into the stats in order to make the numbers seem like they are more of a problem.

I dont believe that many women that are bulimic or anorexic are going to commit mass shootings. I also dont believe that when they come forward with their problem, that people are going to call them insane or sociopathic murderers. Yes, you are screwed up, go get help, just try not to act like a victim all of the time. The mens magazines out there tell me that if I am not ripped and tan that I wont get any women. That didnt mean that I headed straight to the gym, then the tanning salon right after I looked for a steroid dealer. People need to deal with their own reality and not what they want, we all cant have the fairytale.

I also dont believe that it is super easy to diagnose ADD now, when I was growing up that was called not paying attention and you usually got a smack for it. Not given a pill every day to level you out.

I do believe that there are seriously ill people out there and I do support getting help for them. When they do something awful, people choose to ignore the signs as well and then we get to hear about how so many people knew he/she was "off".

Comparing my analogy to cancer is ridiculous on your part, as having ADD as a mild form of mental illness is no where comparable to any sort of cancer, I would know as there is cancer and ADD in my family.

It is costing everyone a ton of money because stress leave is easy to take. Just find a doctor willing to sign the note. Everyone is full of excuses for everything and there are so many people out there that make molehills into mountains because everybody needs to be heard. I just cant deal with it! Ok, no problem, here is your note.

My point is where does it end and when do we say to some of the people it is just time to grow up?
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  #34  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:50 PM
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MK2750 MK2750 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey View Post
My problem is that you are lumping in alot of issues that are not issues that cause someone to go and shoot up a school full of kids into the stats in order to make the numbers seem like they are more of a problem.

Comparing my analogy to cancer is ridiculous on your part, as having ADD as a mild form of mental illness is no where comparable to any sort of cancer, I would know as there is cancer and ADD in my family.

My point is where does it end and when do we say to some of the people it is just time to grow up?
I am not lumping, I am trying to unlump. The criminally insane should be institutionalized for the safety of society. People with mental illness should receive treatment. They should not be even compared.

I was not in any way comparing cancer and ADD as equals. I was making the point that both are illness that is no fault of the one suffering.

People who suffer from mental illness can no more say "I am going to grow up today" than a cancer patient can walk away from their illness.

I do agree that many are using the stress card as a free day off or a payed vacation. These people are not mentally ill. They are common thieves and free loaders.
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Whiskey Wish Whiskey Wish is offline
 
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We need to make a number of changes in our society, not the least of which is no longer stigmatizing people who come forward with mental health issues.

Another is to build and fund PROPER facilities to care for mentally ill people. Ask any LEO, emergency room nurse, doctor, or correctional offcier about how many times they deal with the SAME person over and over again, knowing full well this person suffers from a mental health issue that is causing them to be dealt with by the legal system instead of the health system.

We warehouse our mentally ill in jails and prisons instead of giving them proper treatment in health care facilities.

MK2750...thank you for having the courage to stand up and make an intelligent argument about mental health issues.
Regards,
Dave.
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:46 AM
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KegRiver KegRiver is offline
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I think the problem is that there are too many high paid experts doing research to prove they are needed.

It was on expert advice that the government gave us bill C68, the gun registry law.

Now some expert wants us to believe that mental illness is behind most murders!

What's he selling?
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:05 AM
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58thecat 58thecat is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesky672 View Post
Yeah... they'd make sure no witnesses were left behind.
Thats why kidnapping is no longer a capital crime.

When we did all of those things... we had a higher violent crime rate and criminals felt they had nothing to lose by killing potential witnesses.
Wow when we did all thse things we "had" create a higher violent crimerate based on?
exactly b.s.
All these do gooders etc sit back and evaluate every freakin thing always from the criminals perspective, rights etc but what about the victim, family, friends, people who love them and would sacrifice everything for them, what about them? nothing, zip zero and they fade away sure they get some help but not to the degree of the criminal.
you drive home after a hard days work, come through the door, victim of a house crime in which you watch your daughter get rapped and tortured...sing me a song then, sure would like to see all involved swinging off the end of a rope whether they had a mental disorder or not!
jeepers maybe we should create an app for this too!
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  #38  
Old 01-19-2013, 12:46 PM
Fisherpeak Fisherpeak is offline
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Has it ever crossed anyone heres mind to drive a hammer into the back of an unsuspecticting co-workers head?.Not from malice but just because,at that moment,you could.Ever been tempted to just gun your truck at a crosswalk and mow down a few pedestrians?How about jamming your gascap under the filler nossle at full bore at a gas station and lighting it up?Going into a bar,ripping the dress off a pretty girl,punching the bartender in the face and downing a bottle of rye behind the bar?Ramming a cop car at a checkstop?

Course it has,but we don`t do it.
That`s what seperates us from the maniacs.Free will and common sense.
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