What flies to use

[burbotman14]

This week i'm going rainbow trout fishing around hinton. Any advice on what flies to use and anything else would be great.

[fishman]

Are you lake fishing or stream fishing

For lakes wooley buggers, leach patterns,streamers, minnow patterns are good starters

Streams elk hair caddis,stimulators,wooley buggers,hares ears,prince nymph and of couse a callabetis mayfly are good starters

[PlayDoh]

Fishmans suggestions will suit you fine. I'd add some Copper-Johns, Pheasant tails, Maybe some SJWorms.

I'm still learning myself, but I have friend whos a guide, and Biologist. He always tells me to "turn some stones over, and use your net", and "Match the hatch", when I ask him for fly suggestions.

I could tell you what was working for me an hour before you fished the same spot, and you could waste your time trying it, cause the fish are on something else. Its more of a factor on rivers vs still-water, but you should always walk around the shore of a lake before you fish it and investigate what terrestrials are around.

Get a small aquarium net at a pet shop, and a "hatch guide" booklet. Pick up some rocks around the banks, in and just out of the water. You'll see the nymphs living in that stretch of water clinging to the bottom of the stones. You have to look hard to see them unless their moving. They look like tiny lobsters. Match the size and color of ones you find, since thats what the trout are expecting.

Bring out the dries only when you see risers, if at all. I haven't fished up there yet, so I can't recommend anything specific. The more I fly fish the more I learn its all about 'Matching the hatch', and the only real way to do that is to check out the area your fishing. Bring a thermometer, and a stomach pump to check out what your catch was eating. Don't forget to give him his meal back, before releasing it.

[bobbypetrolia]

PLEASE don't 'pump a fish's stomach to see what he has been eating'. Or try to 'give him his meal back' when you are done. Unbelievable.

[burbotman14]

Thanks for the info. Hope I can do well with the suggestions.

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by bobbypetrolia

PLEASE don't 'pump a fish's stomach to see what he has been eating'. Or try to 'give him his meal back' when you are done. Unbelievable.

Maybe you should educate yourself before you try to humiliate someone else. A simple Google search would have shown you its not something I came up with, and it a common method used by fly fishermen. For hundreds of years no less. If done correctly, it has little or no negative effect to the trout.

A trouts gullet if far different then a Pike or walleyes.

Heres some searching I did on your behalf.

The second tool is the stomach pump, used properly it is an invaluable tool and one I would not want to be without. You can use the stomach pump to determine a what depth fish might be feeding. If a sample contains emergers and adults' chances are the fish are at or near the surface. Often the organisms a stomach pump removes from the fish are alive.

Stomach pump
Used correctly you can accurately determine the size and color of the larvae the fish may be feeding on. The stomach pump samples those food items in the esophagus of the trout. The majority of samples you get will still be alive. Stomach pumps can also help determine the depth at which the trout are feeding. If your sample contains adult insects and emerging pupa, chances are the fish are at or near the surface. If the sample contains larvae and bottom dwelling nymphs, the fish are most likely feeding at or near the bottom. Remember with a stomach pump do not to use them on fish under 12”. Fish under 12” can be seriously injured by incorrect or rough use of a stomach pump.

[bobbypetrolia]

Educate myself? Yeah. Apparently.
You stated in your first post that you are 'no expert' and now all of a sudden because you Googled it........you are.
It even says in your google quote that fish under 12 inches can be seriously hurt.............so its ok to do it on a 14 inch trout? Doubt it.
Speaking of 'educating'.........do you know how long a fish can be kept out of water before it loses up to 80% of its energy? One minute. Smaller fish (ie trout) are even less. Do you know the mortality rate of catch and release? How 'bout catch and release after the stomach has been pumped then refed?
Don't get me wrong........this is a fine practice for biologists. I just don't think the average sportsman should be doing this to find out what flies to use. There are better ways.
Just because you find it on Google doesn't mean its ok.

[PlayDoh]

Huh? Your the one who found the idea "Unbelievable", but at the same time you already knew about it? I'm not claiming to be anything, just defending myself from your "Don't do it", without any facts or reasons why anyone shouldn't do it.

Of course you don't stick a pump in a small fry, I'd think that parts doesn't have to be said. I've landed quite a few fish, so ya, I do know how long they can survive out of the water. Who said you have to hold the fish out of the water? Do you think it takes 5 mins to use an eye-dropper?

You like to ask me questions, but don't seem to be able to provide any answers yourself, other then 'on the spot facts'. Why you presume I should answer your questions, when half of them don't even make sense. The Mortaility rate is specific to each fish and body of water.

The C&R mortality rate for Trout in the Bow is 0.18 % of the mature population. For one example.

Just because you find it on Google doesn't mean its ok.

Just because you dont know about something, doesn't mean its wrong. You should avoid giving advice, when you know little of the details, IMO.

[bobbypetrolia]

You are wrong. IMO
Start a new thread if you want to argue.
My aplologies to Burbot man for the hi-jack.
0.18% mortality rate on the Bow? Less than 1 %? Thats funny. For some reason the trout on the Bow have a better survival rate of any other fish (trout included) caught and released in the world.!?!? AMAZING. Thanks for educating me further.
From now on when I need any fly fishing or fish handling advise I will contact you. I was wrong. I apologize.

Originally Posted by bobbypetrolia

PLEASE don't 'pump a fish's stomach to see what he has been eating'. Or try to 'give him his meal back' when you are done. Unbelievable.

if you have the proper "throat" pump, (its technically called) that it will work fine. I was at a brian Chan seminar, hes a world famous flyfisher/biologist and he showed us how to properly use it...not hard at all...all the fish I have pumped have been fine

[lippy]

Originally Posted by bobbypetrolia

Educate myself? Yeah. Apparently.
You stated in your first post that you are 'no expert' and now all of a sudden because you Googled it........you are.
It even says in your google quote that fish under 12 inches can be seriously hurt.............so its ok to do it on a 14 inch trout? Doubt it.
Speaking of 'educating'.........do you know how long a fish can be kept out of water before it loses up to 80% of its energy? One minute. Smaller fish (ie trout) are even less. Do you know the mortality rate of catch and release? How 'bout catch and release after the stomach has been pumped then refed?
Don't get me wrong........this is a fine practice for biologists. I just don't think the average sportsman should be doing this to find out what flies to use. There are better ways.
Just because you find it on Google doesn't mean its ok.

Do you belong to PETA or some other hostile group..Do you even fish. Did you hold a fish out of water for 1 minute and then somehow measure how much energy the fish had left..yes that`s what I thought. How much energy do they have left after 1 minute 20 seconds..just curious Are you related to Paul McCartneys x in someway..no wait a minute those were seals!

[burbotman14]

How about, keep the fish (if you can), fillet it and see what it has been eating. Problem solved. Thats what i usually do. One time i was up at carson in the winter, kept a few and they had some small crayfish in their stomach. I'm their for a week of trout fishing so that is what i will do.

[PlayDoh]

Have a great time Burb. Its surprising whats in the rivers, and lakes that fish eat. Its a whole different world in there, and finding what trout are feeding on at any given time is far more complicated then I would have imagined before I started learning about it.

Tight Lines.

[steelhead]

I cant believe some called "peta" on Bobby.


So why is it only trout anglers pump the fishes stomach?

Walleye anglers dont pump, pike anglers dont pump, just the trout guys,

Cant you figure out what the fish are eating by trying a few different flies instead, like other specie anglers. Talk about takin the fun out of it all.

I cant believe what some fly anglers say to justify thier methods, then complain about bait fishers.

Brian chan does it, so its ok!!LOL

Hillarious


Sorry burbotman, I do agree with the fly selections other have given.

[PlayDoh]

You should look in the gullet of a Walleye, Pike and then a Trout, then I don't think you'll be confused why only Trout fishermen do it. Yet I don't see the harm in taking a sample from a Walleye or Pike either. Theres no need to check a Pike, since they'll eat anything available, and Lake fish have only so much forage to choose from, and they don't eat tiny insects.

On the other hand, Trout in a river have hundreds of choices, and knowing if their targeting emergers, or something specific is impossible otherwise.

Brian chan does it, so its ok!!LOL

I'll trust his advice and instruction any day before yours. I really don't see whats so Hilarious about trusting one of the most knowledgeable anglers and entomologists in Western Canada. But Laugh it up.

Not to mention, neither you or bobbypetrolia can provide any actual reason why its Wrong, Unethical, or otherwise. Only "unbelievable" laughter.

[steelhead]

You must be new to fly angling

Trout will eat anything also, if you present it right.


If you have to pump, then you should re think your methods


I never had to pump a fish, and i find I am quite a successfull fly angler. Flip a rock, run a net and kick the bottom, look at the terrestrials, Observation of the surrounding nature should give you enough clues, and if it doesnt, throw a panther martin.


Steelhead

[steelhead]

You must be new to fly angling

Like pike and walleyes, Trout will eat anything , if you present it right. And i'm just dying for you to tell me otherwise.


If you have to pump, then you should re think your methods. maybee read a few more books!!


I never had to pump a fish, and i find I am quite a successfull fly angler. Flip a rock, run a net and kick the bottom, look at the terrestrials, Observation of the surrounding nature should give you enough clues, and if it doesnt, throw a panther martin.


Steelhead

[gprime27]

[QUOTE=steelhead;161299]You must be new to fly angling

Like pike and walleyes, Trout will eat anything , if you present it right. And i'm just dying for you to tell me otherwise.


Well today I seen 4 massive trout and it didn't matter what I threw at them they just swam in circles ticking me off. So don't tell me trout will eat anything.

[steelhead]

If you saw them, then they saw you. Swimming in circles? You had them spooked, should have walked away for a while and snuk up on them again.



trout spook easy ya know!!


Steelhead

[Mountain Guy]

The reason you don't pump pike and walleye :
You'd need a shop vac to suck out what they eat.
You really don't need to ''match the hatch'' with Pike and Walleye.
Pretty sure if the walleye are going to bite , a minnow , leach or worm will work.
And Pike , well, throw a tin can on a string at him and he'll take it if he's hungry enough.
As far as trout fishing , especially chronomid fishing , matching the color of the emerger may definitely be the difference between catching and not.
Quite often , if the hatch is strong you can see them as they emerge.
But , on occasion , if slow, taking a throat sample tells the story.

I'm surprised that fellow fisherman are so offended by taking a throat sample from a trout ??
Geez..... what about those pointy sharp hooks that get caught in their mouths...... OUCH !!!

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by steelhead

You must be new to fly angling

Like pike and walleyes, Trout will eat anything , if you present it right. And i'm just dying for you to tell me otherwise.


If you have to pump, then you should re think your methods. maybee read a few more books!!


I never had to pump a fish, and i find I am quite a successfull fly angler. Flip a rock, run a net and kick the bottom, look at the terrestrials, Observation of the surrounding nature should give you enough clues, and if it doesnt, throw a panther martin.


Steelhead

You love to argue don't ya Steelhead? If you don't need to throat pump thats fine, but don't try to tell me "trout eat anything". I've never heard something so stupid in my whole life.

Why do you think there are 10 thousand different flies for trout? Heck, why tie little, intricate flies at all, just toss a car key on a J-hook, cause "Trout will eat anything". M0r0n.

You can stop trying to pi$$ me off, since its pretty obvious thats all your interested in. All you do is post arguments to my opinions, here and elsewhere. I'm not interested in proving to you that a throat pump is something you should use, I simply suggested it as a means of learning what the trout are feeding on.

BTW, I've read dozens of Fly fishing books, and every single one of them says you have to 'match the hatch'. Trout often key in to feeding on the most abundant forage, that requires the least amount of energy to obtain. If there is a major hatch of something, and the trout are feeding on it exclusively, no other fly will work effectively, if at all.

If you haven't tossed flies at trout, even boiling trout, and had your fly rejected everytime, you must be newer then I am. Don't feel bad gprime27, I feel your pain.

[steelhead]

I dont agree.

mountain man said........Pretty sure if the walleye are going to bite , a minnow , leach or worm will work.


I would have to say the same thing goes for trout!! why do you think they created san juans, leech patterns and streamers? If you were allowed to use bait for trout in streams, i bet minnows or dew worms would outfish any bug you threw no matter what the hatch. one reason why the poachers like minnows and dew worms, and they take home fish over 24, and lots of em.


I bet, if we were fishing the same waters, I could get a hit or a few fish using a minnow immitation loooong before you find the right color chron.

bugs are not the only thing on a trouts list of favorite meals. Like pike and walleyes, they eat minnows, leeches, mice, and bugs. There are times of the year where walleyes and pike are full of emergers and scuds!

Bugs are seasonal, minnows are always present and all year.


Yes, the hooks are an ouch for sure. Alot of fly anglers preach the least amount of handling for the fish, no live bait, catch and release, barbless, dont touch the fish, dont lay it on the ground for a pic, keep it in the water as much as possible, YET, they fight a fish, grab it around the middle, jam a tube down its throat, suck the stuff out of him, look what he ate, jam it back in while grabbing it around the middle, release it to watch it puke all its well hunted for sustenence out cause chan said its ok, well, you may as well use a pickerel rig and worms!!


I firmly believe, catching trout successfully all relies on your methods. If your just gonna try bugs, your limiting yourself from catching fish in a big way.


stellhead

[steelhead]

Playdoh said........Why do you think there are 10 thousand different flies for trout? Heck, why tie little, intricate flies at all, just toss a car key on a J-hook, cause "Trout will eat anything". M0r0n.


Moron, well, here comes the name calling. I guess this means you lost this argument. i hope you dont pick on my spelling next.



LOL, yes, trout do eat EVERYTHING. you have to be the only one that doesnt think so!! I have thrown mushrooms into a stream in the adirondaks and watched the trout snack them down very quickly.


Like I said, deer hair mice, leech patterns, minnow imitations, deer hair fry, san juan worms, all favorite trout patterns, and they dont imitate bugs!

LOl, and in no way am I picking on you specifically, but, after your last post, you better start reading a few more books, even the fly tying bible had minnow immitation in it, or did you miss that page?

Steelehad


Oh ya, for a trout, eating one minnow takes the place of 20 bugs, so there isnt mant trout out there that would refuse a minnow as it is less energy to eat one minnow, than 20 bugs. You said trout key in an the most abundant forage. well, if you ever snorkelled the rivers, you would see way more minnows than bugs.

Newer than you, hillarious!!

out of aaaaaallllll the posts you have ever written on all these boards, i have only disagreed on one other topic you posted, so cool off there buddy. others have disagreed with you on more occasions than me, but I get the Moron comment.

Goodbye to your credibility

[PlayDoh]

Do you even know what point your trying to make? Trout love to eat Minnows? Hmmmm, you don't say. Stick a aquarium net in a river, and wait an hour, and count the number of minnows you see. After you clean out the 1/2 a ton of insects.

Throat pumping is harmful? How so? If your point is that you personally disagree with throat pumping, then why get personal with me about it?

You must be new to fly angling

If you have to pump, then you should re think your methods. maybe read a few more books!!

I would have had more respect for you if you had just out and called me a moron, then use sly, passive aggressive comments, just to be a *****.

You can voice your opinion, without being an a-hole. You should try it. Why am I the focus of the 'throat pump' ethical issues you have? All I did was mention it, I haven't even done it myself, nor did I rave about its effectiveness.

Why not say something normal, and positive, like ;
"I'm afraid I disagree with PD, regarding the use of a throat pump. Certain studies show.....(insert fact), I feel its completely unnecessary, or I just feel icky about it, so please don't anyone else do it."

So congratulations, your the first on my "Ignore list".

[steelhead]

LOL, see ya!!

Did he even read anything I said? I guess not, because all the answers to his last barrage of questions I explained sensibly in previous posts.


steelhead


Lol, He spends 3 out of 6 paragraphs in each post to insult me and what I say and he says i got the problem? Was I really that far off??


Proudly ignored by sheephunter and playdoh. 2 guys that have to use spelling and name calling to insult a guy cause they know it all.

[Doc]

I've been using a stomach pump for over 10 years. The correct term is actually throat pump as you should not slide it too far into the fish so as to harm the fish. The purpose of the throat pump is to see what trout are currently eating and not what it was eating so sliding it farther than the throat will do you no good.

Using a throat pump is safe for trout when making sure it is first wet and then gently sliding it into the throat. The pump can tell you many things about a trouts feeding activity like: is it feeding on top (midge adults)?, on the bottom (midge larva)?, what size of imitation you should use (size 22 or 14)?, and what color they are keying on?

Trout are opportunistic feeders and will feed on what's available but they are not like a pike. In a stillwater fishery, they will not hold and ambush their meals but rather cruise around looking for easy meals so although they will take a minnow, they will more readily take a slow moving bug. If there is a decent hatch on, they tend to get keyed in on that hatch and may refuse anything but that particular bug. A damselfly hatch is a good example. You may not see the nymphs on the surface but underneath on the shoal they could be very active. Around the Edmonton area one can not wade the shorelines of most of our trout fisheries as you'll sink past your knees quickly and if you see nothing on the surface then a throat pump can be invaluable. Trout will also switch their diet from one insect to another in a very short time frame.

Sure a stomach pump can be harmful, but with practice comes experience. Don't kid yourself though. Fishing, no matter the the species, C&R or keep is a blood sport, like it or not.

Now if you really want to talk harmful, lets talk slack line bait fishing.

Cheers,
Doc