Another interesting comment on rifle reliability.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you suggesting that perhaps he exaggerates a little?

Just suggesting that I'm a little skeptical is all. I was always told to never believe what you hear and only half of what you see.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

Absolutely! According to our government I became a Clear and Present Danger to Society as well as a devious criminal without a valid PAL

edmhunter for your devious lifestyle you will be outcasted at noon, wait a minute that already passed, we will reconcile once this thread gets to two more eggnogs!

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Maybe they're having a hard time validating your claims.

:sHa_sarcastic lol

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Just suggesting that I'm a little skeptical is all. I was always told to never believe what you hear and only half of what you see.

I believe 100% ,80% of what I see, and 20% of what people tell me.

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Maybe they're having a hard time validating your claims.

Man you are funny hahahahahahahaha!

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

Man you are funny hahahahahahahaha!

Yes that is funny. I've never had a problem renewing my rpal or atc. Wierd or what?

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Yes that is funny. I've never had a problem renewing my rpal or atc. Wierd or what?

I never said I had a problem renewing my PAL! trolling are you?

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

I never said I had a problem renewing my PAL! trolling are you?

Nope. Just agreeing with you that it is a hilarious situation.

[Leeper]

To get back to reliable rifles etc., I will comment on the original post and will throw in a few other observations along the way. Many of my ideas and beliefs may seem a little dated but for that to matter, I would have to care.
The Winchester model 70 is a fine rifle action and rifles built on that platform can be good, reliable, rifles but I truly believe that many of the changes which Winchester made to the Mauser system only serve to make them less reliable. There are also changes made which can be considered to be improvements but which also require some compromise to the integrity of the Mauser system. One change which can be considered to be an improvement is the increased size of the recoil lug and the re-location of the front guard screw. This is, to me, one of two inarguable improvements. The second is the ability to single load the Winchester without employing any special techniques or modifying the extraction system. All other "improvements" are either not improvements at all or they compromise the design intentions. Here are some examples:
The trigger. The Model 70 trigger is one of the earliest of the over riding sear type triggers. In these triggers, the sear engages the cocking piece and the trigger engages the sear. In the Mauser direct-acting trigger, the sear engages the cocking piece and the trigger moves the sear out of engagement. In the Winchester system the striker must over-ride the sear once the trigger disengages from the sear. If there is anything impeding the movement of the sear, the striker may fail to fall or be impeded in it's travel with a misfire being the result. This is the price which is paid for an ajustable, single stage trigger. The advantage of the Winchester over other adjustable trigger system is that it is an "open" machanism. This allows any debris to (hopefully) fall out the bottom rather than disabling the trigger. The Mauser trigger features generous sear engagement which is made possible by the two-stage pull. When the Mauser trigger is tripped, the striker spring has only to drive the firing pin forward unimpeded. From a reliability standpoint, there is little question that this is superior. Unfortunately, most modern hunters can't handle such a manly trigger so they insist on a lighter, single stage trigger. The Winchester is not a bad one.
Lock time. The lock time on the Winchester is indisputably much quicker than on the Mauser. What does this mean? Squat! In the hunting field, lock times are absolutely meaningless. On the target range, they are somewhat less so. The compromise made is reduced reliability of ignition. For a hard use rifle, I don't consider that to be a real improvement.
The Winchester three-position safety is a good system; good enough that use it on one mauser. However, I am perfectly happy with a two position safety as was produced by Beuhler and use those on most Mausers. In truth, I feel that the original two-stage trigger is safety enough. I don't consider the bolt lock feature to be of any real importance. If I'm in a position where it is important to be loaded and locked, I'll have the rifle in my hands anyway. If I am carrying it slung or on a packframe, it doesn't need to be loaded.
Other changes made to the Mauser design are strictly detrimental. The winchester breeching system sucks. The bolt sleeve lock is relatively puny and less effective.
The fact that the Winchester comes ready to receive scope mounts is great but an old FN action does the same thing.
The Interarms actions and rifles would be just fine except that they insisted on going to a single stage, adjustable trigger and it is this which limited their reliability.
As far as scope mounting is concerned, the only real improvement to be made would be to produce either action with integral bases. The best bases are the Weaver-type (Picatinny, if you must). The best rings are probably the Leupold QRW's.
The Talleys bases and rings come in second.
The best scopes are fixed powers of reasonable size. In general, the more compact, the better but on occasion, scopes are made too short which limits mounting options. The big , heavy, variable powered scopes have their place but that place is not on a rifle intended to be used roughly. In a way, this is where the Weaver mounting system shines; one can sight in two scopes and remove and replace them at will. This way, you can mount your 6x Leupold when you want to climb through the alders and up the mountain while stalking your game or you can mount your big and bulky Huskemaw or Nightforce to play "Best in the West". The light, compact fixed power is preferable for hard use. A set of back-up irons can save a hunt as well.
By the way, I think a 338 makes a lot more sense than a 375 for use in North America. It fits most actions better and is certainly sufficiently powerful. Personally, I could get by with an '06. Two more available rounds (in the unlikely event that I miss!) and sufficient for any game with the right ammunition.
As I said before, some may consider me to be just another old guy with old ideas but my rifles always fire and I usually hit my intended target. I do very little pampering of my guns and occasionally have to remove a bit of rust after a long hunt. I have also spent a long time working on rifles which are used even harder than mine and have seen what works well and what doesn't always work at all.
By the way, to me, the best rough-use rifle of modern manufacture is the Ruger 77. It has some flaws, to be sure, but it is basically a solid, reliable firearm. Put a Mauser trigger on it and Weaver-style bases and it would come close to being great. Leeper

[crazy_davey]

Thanks for the laughs edmhunter, you certainly are one big joke!

[norwestalta]

What makes my tikka more reliable than my browning,Mossberg,husqavarna or parker hale?

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Nope. Just agreeing with you that it is a hilarious situation.

If you consider loosing out on a hunting season, because your pal expired because you were too busy fighting insurance companies that were trying to rip you off because an immigrant plumber burnt down your home, I feel really sorry for you man!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

I never said I had a problem renewing my PAL! trolling are you?

You let it expire, and that cost you a hunting season, so obviously you had a problem.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

If you consider loosing out on a hunting season, because your pal expired because you was busy fighting insurance companies that were trying to rip you off because an immigrant plumber burnt down your home, I feel really sorry for you man!

Not laughing at you. Laughing with you. Maybe you were being sarcastic. For not reading through your sarcasim i apologize.

[twofifty]

1/2hr break in the action - the big bulls must be resting up.

[Bergerboy]

How much is the difference in lock time between a fast and slow bolt action? I read Leepers input, it was humbling considering Im one of the people that don't like the manly Mauser triggers.lol

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Derailer/switchmaster got drunk, fell into the Xmas tree but man when he sobers up we are in trouble.....

I've noticed that. I think the mods are letting the members police themselves on a trial basis. It seems to be working out OK.

[marxman]

The second is the ability to single load the Winchester without employing any special techniques or modifying the extraction system. eeper[/QUOTE]

I cant single load my newish win hester the recie er blocks extractor from jumpimg over the cartridge rim . I assume this means the extractor cant pop off the rim untill the cartridge is coming out of the reciever on the way out so is this really an i provement to single load. My cz 550 would single load good thing too half the time it operated push feed anyway

[marxman]

My favorite designs are my mark 5 and tikka they are both elegant systems sorry i havent gi en them to stupid people to torture test but im pretty sure they will hold up along with most other guns

[gitrdun]

Hey marxman. Is your keyboard screwed or are you into the egg nogg?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Hey marxman. Is your keyboard screwed or are you into the egg nogg?

I was wondering the same thing.

[Bergerboy]

Chuck, I have a Mauser actioned 3006 and if I drop one in the pipe I can close the bolt and the extractor blade will jump over the rim. Will the Win M70's do that or must they feed from the mag?

[Pathfinder76]

Yes. They should all act like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAr7d3acMYo

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by chuck

Yes. They should all act like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAr7d3acMYo

Awesome thanks. That is a no nonsense cycling rifle. I kinda wanna see if the Salvage will do the same.....

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Awesome thanks. That is a no nonsense cycling rifle. I kinda wanna see if the Salvage will do the same.....

Already have the answer....made 4 quick dummies and nope. Big ol train wreck. Will try this again.

[Bergerboy]

Figured it out, still no where as nice as the Mauser.

[twofifty]

Figured it out?
So were you able to quickly cycle those dummy rounds through a savage? What model?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Figured it out?
So were you able to quickly cycle those dummy rounds through a savage? What model?

No not as fast. I was trying to cycle the bolt back and forth like in the video without realizing the extractor does not engage the rim until the bolt handle is rotated as well. So no it will not do it as fast as a Mauser as the full cycle must be completed. The action was from a Salvage Model 11 in 22-250.

[Pathfinder76]

It's a Winchester Model 70 in the video.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by chuck

Yes. They should all act like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAr7d3acMYo

Mine wont feed like the one in the video you have to feed from the magazine. Its an alaskan 30 06