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  #91  
Old 09-10-2015, 08:29 AM
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You guys get one new poster flappin on his keyboard to try and get a rise out of you, and all of a sudden you loose your senses????

I DON'T GET IT!!!! You all seem to be more than reasonably intelligent men, but you see that flashy spoon being trolled in front of you and you turn into a bunch of raving lunatics????

You know what the guy with 10 posts is doing, you can sure as hell bet he has posted more than 10 times on this board under other names, and you still gotta use it as an excuse to attack....

Time to check the egos and use the noggin
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  #92  
Old 09-10-2015, 08:34 AM
tchardy1972 tchardy1972 is offline
 
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I wonder how many guys here shoot at running or moving game? I also wonder what the percentage of clean kills are when doing so? Who had the equipment to spend the hours and hundreds of rounds it takes to be proficient at hitting moving targets?
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  #93  
Old 09-10-2015, 08:35 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is online now
 
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See signature below. Uggggg.
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Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
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  #94  
Old 09-10-2015, 08:43 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith View Post
There are a lot of guys on this thread who talk the talk, but VERY few who walk the walk. That is plainly obvious. You know the old saying "Better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". The OP in particular. We've got guys repeatedly making Grade 3 math errors who obviously have about zero experience with either the gear or the expertise that comes from actually getting out and shooting at LR, and guys who confess zero interest or experience shooting past 500 yards, but speaking authoritatively about wind drift at 1000. Still others are claiming that you need a .300WM or .338LM to hit and kill at 1000. This thread is a hoot! All I can say is that most guys posting in this thread need to get off the couch and pop a few cases of primers at steel plates from 500-1000 yards before opining on the topic!

As great of some of our military snipers are, they are usually the first ones to admit that the competitive civilian community are generally better shots. Shooting is only one small part of being an excellent sniper.
Sorry gotta take you to task on the 'don't need a .300WM or .338 Lapua'.
Let's take a moose at 1000yds and a comparison of energy of some different rounds at 1000yds.
.308.....150gr at 1000m has 780fpe.
.300WM ....150gr at 1000m has 1150fpe
.45ACP....185gr at the muzzle has 616fpe

So at 1000yds the .308 doesn't have much more than the .45 at the muzzle.
Would you stand within 20' of a moose and shoot it with a .45ACP (you have to stand your ground if you don't kill it).
At 1000yds bigger is better.
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  #95  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:02 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have seen how easily a person with a wind meter can miss shots at 500m due to the wind changing speed and direction over 500 meters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that at twice the distance, the possibility of misjudging the wind speed and direction will increase.
So seeing is now the same as doing? If guys limited thier comments to things that they have actually done, instead of what they have seen and or read, the threads would certainly be shorter, but much more informative.

R.
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  #96  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
Actually it's no more guess work at 1,000 yards than it is at 500 with wind.
I'm not sure I agree with that. You have twice the distance to guess what the wind is doing. It's not just the wind at target, but the wind at every foot along the way.

As for the ethics of long range hunting, "long range" is a relative term. A 350 yard shot is much more long range for ME than a 1000 yard shot likely is for many here. If you can consistently hit a pie plate at the range you are shooting AND the round you are using has enough down-range energy to reliably kill, then have at it. I think you are missing out on half the fun of "hunting", but that's just a personal opinion.
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  #97  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:15 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Rman View Post
So seeing is now the same as doing? If guys limited thier comments to things that they have actually done, instead of what they have seen and or read, the threads would certainly be shorter, but much more informative.

R.
I have actually done a fair amount of shooting at 500m, we used to shoot clay targets out to 500m every Sunday morning before skeet. As such, I am well aware of just how easy it is to misjudge the wind at 500m. The people using wind meters that I was referring to, were people that watched long range shooting on Wild TV, and then ran out and purchased everything that they saw on the shows, and then they found out that it wasn't as easy in real life as it is on television. They were taking wind readings, punching numbers into their phones, and then they adjusted the turrets on the scope accordingly and took their shots. They were both surprised and frustrated that they were missing the clays. They blamed everything from the scopes not tracking to the wind meter being wrong, to the calculations not being correct, but they didn't consider that the wind wasn't what their wind meter was telling them all the way to the target. Unfortunately, these people were only a few of the many people that were convinced by watching television, that long range shooting was so easy.
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  #98  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that. You have twice the distance to guess what the wind is doing. It's not just the wind at target, but the wind at every foot along the way.

As for the ethics of long range hunting, "long range" is a relative term. A 350 yard shot is much more long range for ME than a 1000 yard shot likely is for many here. If you can consistently hit a pie plate at the range you are shooting AND the round you are using has enough down-range energy to reliably kill, then have at it. I think you are missing out on half the fun of "hunting", but that's just a personal opinion.
What I mean is that of you can't dope wind at 500 you won't be able to at 1,000.
As far as long range hunting goes, I had to actually hunt harder up here to get a shot at what I considered a safe long range shot than I did to find an animal inside 150 for a safe shot.
Shooting at something on a flat cut line is not safe IMO, be it 300 or 1,000.

It's just too much hassle these days for me, I don't have the time to spend on hunting nor the amount of practice it takes to keep up the gilt edged accuracy needed for making what I consider a long range shot.
Cat
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  #99  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:19 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have actually done a fair amount of shooting at 500m, we used to shoot clay targets out to 500m every Sunday morning before skeet. As such, I am well aware of just how easy it is to misjudge the wind at 500m. The people using wind meters that I was referring to, were people that watched long range shooting on Wild TV, and then ran out and purchased everything that they saw on the shows, and then they found out that it wasn't as easy in real life as it is on television. They were taking wind readings, punching numbers into their phones, and then they adjusted the turrets on the scope accordingly and took their shots. They were both surprised and frustrated that they were missing the clays. They blamed everything from the scopes not tracking to the wind meter being wrong, to the calculations not being correct, but they didn't consider that the wind wasn't what their wind meter was telling them all the way to the target. Unfortunately, these people were only a few of the many people that were convinced by watching television, that long range shooting was so easy.
In total agreement with you here. I find my Kestrel invaluable for giving me quick trajectory info. And it does an excellent job of telling me the wind speed AT MY SHOOTING POSITION.
A lot more to reading the wind than what the meter tells me. I'm amazed when I see people take a wind reading from their shooting position and base everything on that...even though it's obvious from grass and such that 200m the wind is blowing in a completely different direction.
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  #100  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
the amount of practice it takes to keep up the gilt edged accuracy needed for making what I consider a long range shot.
Cat
Yeah, that's it for me. I have to be honest with myself and keep my shots fairly limited.
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  #101  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:34 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Quote:
What I mean is that of you can't dope wind at 500 you won't be able to at 1,000.
It's not like it gets easier as the distance increases.
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  #102  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post

All I'm saying is looking down the road into the future the longer the range we can easily shoot animals, the easier it becomes to fill tags, means more successful hunters, the more seasons and bag limits will be reduced.
Those guys that are so dedicated to long range hunting spend a lot of money on their long range rig, put a lot of time into practicing, and are VERY dedicated to perfecting that chosen style of hunting. The money spent, all the practice, etc, tells me that person is the type of person who is going to connect on an animal no matter what style he chooses to hunt with.
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  #103  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:58 AM
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lam just waiting for either some to shot some one that is coming thought the bullet path in the middle or the guy that is TRYING to sneak up on the game only to have is get shot by someone 1000 yrds and probabaly not in good enough shape to get to it so they just waste it.and yes hunting is more then just lunching lead that why there como and scent control
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  #104  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:02 AM
tchardy1972 tchardy1972 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by livinstone View Post
lam just waiting for either some to shot some one that is coming thought the bullet path in the middle or the guy that is TRYING to sneak up on the game only to have is get shot by someone 1000 yrds and probabaly not in good enough shape to get to it so they just waste it.and yes hunting is more then just lunching lead that why there como and scent control
I wonder how anything was ever killed before camo and scent control.
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  #105  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:03 AM
Muckwa Muckwa is offline
 
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Another one of these threads....
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  #106  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:03 AM
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Bahahaha..... Hook line and sinker.
Thanks for the reminder moose! With that, I'm outta here!
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  #107  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by livinstone View Post
lam just waiting for either some to shot some one that is coming thought the bullet path in the middle or the guy that is TRYING to sneak up on the game only to have is get shot by someone 1000 yrds and probabaly not in good enough shape to get to it so they just waste it.and yes hunting is more then just lunching lead that why there como and scent control
You think a bullet has a possibility of hitting a person stalking an animal at say, 1,000 yards, if the person is maybe 75 yards from the animal?
Possible , I guess, but if you look at the trajectory of a properly placed bullet at 1,000, the mid range is pretty high .
The bullets hit at a fairly steep angle.
Long range shooting is far more complicated than simply " launching lead" as you put it.

As far as a person not being in shape to get to a downed animal, you are assuming way too much.
The only scent control I use is to check the wind, and if I am wearing camo it is because that happens to be what I am wearing that day.
I often hunt in a red Jack Shirt or coat , even when I shoot my animals at 20 yards while still hunting.
And with that, I will also retire from this pizzing match, because that is all it has turned into, just like all the other threads concerning this controversial topic..
Cat
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Last edited by catnthehat; 09-10-2015 at 10:12 AM.
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  #108  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by diamonddave View Post
You guys get one new poster flappin on his keyboard to try and get a rise out of you, and all of a sudden you loose your senses????

I DON'T GET IT!!!! You all seem to be more than reasonably intelligent men, but you see that flashy spoon being trolled in front of you and you turn into a bunch of raving lunatics????

You know what the guy with 10 posts is doing, you can sure as hell bet he has posted more than 10 times on this board under other names, and you still gotta use it as an excuse to attack....

Time to check the egos and use the noggin
Maybe He is a She
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  #109  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Maybe He is a She
very possible
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  #110  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I have seen how easily a person with a wind meter can miss shots at 500m due to the wind changing speed and direction over 500 meters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that at twice the distance, the possibility of misjudging the wind speed and direction will increase.
If you think a wind meter at the shooter's position is what wind corrections are all about, then you clearly shouldn't be speaking authoritatively about wind corrections or LR shooting.
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  #111  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:48 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Those guys that are so dedicated to long range hunting spend a lot of money on their long range rig, put a lot of time into practicing, and are VERY dedicated to perfecting that chosen style of hunting. The money spent, all the practice, etc, tells me that person is the type of person who is going to connect on an animal no matter what style he chooses to hunt with.
Some people put a lot of time into practicing, but some do not, because they feel that if they purchase the right equipment, and use the right technology, they don't need to practice. I watched one clown shoot two boxes of ammunition at 25 yards, to zero his new Huskemaw scope, and then turn to his shooting partner, and tell him that he was ready to shoot deer to 800 yards. A friend of mine asked him if he was going to shoot farther to verify the trajectory, to which he was told it wasn't necessary, because the dial on the scope was cut to match the trajectory of the HSM factory loads that he was using.
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  #112  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:55 AM
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From the OP, right on through the entire thread. Lots of people watching, looking, seeing, and then passing judgement, but it still seems like the ones that have actually done, are few and far between.

R.
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  #113  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:00 AM
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Anything over 250yds should be considered both long range and unethical to 95% of the people on this forum.

That is a fact.
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  #114  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:02 AM
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Anything over 250yds should be considered both long range and unethical to 95% of the people on this forum.

That is a fact.
Oh snap!

Bazinga!

R.
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  #115  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith View Post
If you think a wind meter at the shooter's position is what wind corrections are all about, then you clearly shouldn't be speaking authoritatively about wind corrections or LR shooting.
I don't use a wind meter, and I don't judge windage based only on what I am seeing at the location that I am shooting from. However, some people, including the people that I was observing, obviously thought that doing so was adequate. Obviously they were wrong.

I have no issue with people doing long range target shooting, and to be honest, although I am not interested in long range shooting myself, I do respect the people that can accurately place a bullet at long range, on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, I have seen many more want to be long range shooters that didn't have the skills to shoot accurately at long range, than I have seen competent long range shooters. Naturally, that translates into many people attempting long range shots on game animals, that don't have the skills to make those shots on a consistent basis.

I have also seen shooters that find it perfectly acceptable to shoot at the animal, while not even being convinced that the first shot will be right on target. Their reasoning is that if the first shot does not provide a clean kill, as long as it is close enough to see the impact, they will just adjust their aim for a follow up shot. I have too much respect for the animals that I hunt, to take any shot that I am not convinced that I can make a clean kill with the first shot.
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  #116  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:21 AM
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  #117  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:25 AM
Tall Texan Tall Texan is offline
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Default Ethics of the hunt

The essence of this thread is weather or not long range shooting at animals is ethical. Ranges of 500 to 1500 yards are talked about. One of the main rationales people use to justify long range shooting is they believe that ethics are a personal judgement and therefore if they believe in it it's justified.

This is completely false. Ethics is the discipline of conforming to accepted, principled, and professional standards of conduct. Acting ethically is not just behaving in a manner you are comfortable with. There are far too many variables involved in long range shooting at wildlife to consistently provide humane kills, therefore it fails the test.

It is a type of hunting but by no standard is it ethical to do so.
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  #118  
Old 09-10-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Sorry gotta take you to task on the 'don't need a .300WM or .338 Lapua'.
Let's take a moose at 1000yds and a comparison of energy of some different rounds at 1000yds.
.308.....150gr at 1000m has 780fpe.
.300WM ....150gr at 1000m has 1150fpe
.45ACP....185gr at the muzzle has 616fpe

So at 1000yds the .308 doesn't have much more than the .45 at the muzzle.
Would you stand within 20' of a moose and shoot it with a .45ACP (you have to stand your ground if you don't kill it).
At 1000yds bigger is better.
Your using kinetic energy as your sole means of determining cartridge effectiveness at distance just shows that you should be asking questions and taking notes, not giving answers.
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  #119  
Old 09-10-2015, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I don't use a wind meter, and I don't judge windage based only on what I am seeing at the location that I am shooting from. However, some people, including the people that I was observing, obviously thought that doing so was adequate. Obviously they were wrong.

I have no issue with people doing long range target shooting, and to be honest, although I am not interested in long range shooting myself, I do respect the people that can accurately place a bullet at long range, on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, I have seen many more want to be long range shooters that didn't have the skills to shoot accurately at long range, than I have seen competent long range shooters. Naturally, that translates into many people attempting long range shots on game animals, that don't have the skills to make those shots on a consistent basis.

I have also seen shooters that find it perfectly acceptable to shoot at the animal, while not even being convinced that the first shot will be right on target. Their reasoning is that if the first shot does not provide a clean kill, as long as it is close enough to see the impact, they will just adjust their aim for a follow up shot. I have too much respect for the animals that I hunt, to take any shot that I am not convinced that I can make a clean kill with the first shot.
That's fair enough. Similarily, I have very little interest in goose hunting, and have not practiced enough to be consistently proficient on geese beyond 25 or 30 yards. But I'm not about to tell a practiced and accomplished shotgunner/goose hunter that they should not shoot geese over 25 yards simply because of the risks associated if I were to try shooting a goose beyond that range, since he has acquired the applied knowledge to mitigate those risks, as where I have not.
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  #120  
Old 09-10-2015, 12:24 PM
JD848 JD848 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Anything over 250yds should be considered both long range and unethical to 95% of the people on this forum.

That is a fact.
x3 on that note.
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