Long range unethical?

[Tall Texan]

Originally Posted by JD 848

x3 on that note.

x 4 and Kurt is being generous.

[Rman]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

x 4 and Kurt is being generous.

The only issue, as usual, is that 95% feel very strongly, that they really are the 5%.

R.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

The essence of this thread is weather or not long range shooting at animals is ethical.
No its not, the O.P said that it couldn't be done.
Ranges of 500 to 1500 yards are talked about. One of the main rationales people use to justify long range shooting is they believe that ethics are a personal judgement and therefore if they believe in it it's justified.

This is completely false. Ethics is the discipline of conforming to accepted, principled, and professional standards of conduct. Acting ethically is not just behaving in a manner you are comfortable with.
No it's not, your wrong again.
eth·ics


/ˈeTHiks/


noun

plural noun: ethics; noun: ethics



1.


moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior.
There are many groups lumped into the hunting community, including people who are involved in long range hunting
There are far too many variables involved in long range shooting at wildlife to consistently provide humane kills, therefore it fails the test.

It is a type of hunting but by no standard is it ethical to do so.

That's your opinion and only that, and the problem with people is that they believe their opinion to be fact. And then they try to enforce their opinion on other people.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

There are far too many variables involved in long range shooting at wildlife to consistently provide humane kills, therefore it fails the test..

If you had data showing a lack of consistently providing humane kills, then I would agree with you. I suspect you don't though, hence no test to pass or fail.

[Rman]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

There are far too many variables involved in shooting at wildlife to consistently provide humane kills, therefore it fails the test.

In keeping with the 95% theme, what about the above statement now?
As usual, the same arguments about shooting apply...Lots of wounded animals shot every year at 100 yards and less, but it is somehow more ethical than successfully shooting an animal at 1000 yards?

R.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Rman

Lots of wounded animals shot every year at 100 yards and less, but it is somehow more ethical than successfully shooting an animal at 1000 yards?

R.

lol aint that the truth.

close shots could be running shots or quick shots adding to the difficulty

so if we want to be an ethical hunter between 101-175 yards off a rest with breathing exercises and all copper bullets half the weight of the animal

^thats a joke by the way.

we are all so quick to judge ans slow to accept if a guy has practiced out to 1000 and can do it i say go for it! have fun!

i just can't.

[Slash8]

[stvnbrg]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

All I'm saying is looking down the road into the future the longer the range we can easily shoot animals, the easier it becomes to fill tags, means more successful hunters, the more seasons and bag limits will be reduced.

There is not even a remote possibility of that happening. And if it does it sure won't be because of long range shooting.

[Speckle55]

to all you people who talk your ethics

do you get out of your car and say grace for every bug you kill

and the grass you kill with every step.... one blade was name Cecil

Wow you guys are funny

In the Circle of Life nothing is wasted

if you die you become food for another .. such is the Circle

Hunting is part of human nature and still is ...in all its forms

Food for Thought

David

[Tall Texan]

Dave: I didn't question what the OP said, I said the ESSENCE of the thread was weather it was ethical to shoot at this long range. Any idiot knows a shot could be made, the question is can it be done in a consistently humane manner

Contrary to what you believe morals and ethics which regulate society are set by society, not individually. You can have your own standards but if they infringe on the ethics society has set for whatever the issue you can't claim they are justified because they are your personal values. The hunting society as a whole condemns shooting at such extreme range because the chances of something going wrong increase as range increases. Thus this extreme long range shooting is unethical period.

If technology did reach the point that this long range shooting was ethical [acceptable] we would soon have much less opportunity to hunt. Look at what technology has done to bow hunting opportunities.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

Dave: I didn't question what the OP said, I said the ESSENCE of the thread was weather it was ethical to shoot at this long range. Any idiot knows a shot could be made, the question is can it be done in a consistently humane manner

Contrary to what you believe morals and ethics which regulate society are set by society, not individually. You can have your own standards but if they infringe on the ethics society has set for whatever the issue you can't claim they are justified because they are your personal values. The hunting society as a whole condemns shooting at such extreme range because the chances of something going wrong increase as range increases. Thus this extreme long range shooting is unethical period.

If technology did reach the point that this long range shooting was ethical [acceptable] we would soon have much less opportunity to hunt. Look at what technology has done to bow hunting opportunities.

Now that you have brought ethics in as a complete hunting issue and society in general, what are your ethical views on hunting coyotes , pigs and deer with hounds?
How about hunting at night and with suppressors?
How about shooting ducks from a moving boat?
Using bait trails for animals.
Baiting deer and bear?
Using cartridges smaller then .24 caliber to hunt big game with ?
Handgun hunting?
I can go on , but the list is unending.
What is deemed ethical in one area is considered totally wrong unethical and illegal in another, sometimes only a province or State next door.
Cat

[Tall Texan]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Now that you have brought ethics in as a complete hunting issue and society in general, what are your ethical views on hunting coyotes , pigs and deer with hounds?
How about hunting at night and with suppressors?
How about shooting ducks from a moving boat?
Using bait trails for animals.
Baiting deer and bear?
Using cartridges smaller then .24 caliber to hunt big game with ?
Handgun hunting?
I can go on , but the list is unending.
What is deemed ethical in one area is considered totally wrong unethical and illegal in another, sometimes only a province or State next door.
Cat

Shooting at big game at extreme range is deemed unethical by the hunting community throughout North America. My personal standards are just my opinion, they are not the accepted ethical standard by which hunters in general are bound ethically.

[KegRiver]

Is this really something worth dividing hunter over.

How many opportunities at 1,000 yard plus shots will the average hunter have in one life let alone one year.
How often would game, season, tags distance time and hunter all come together at the same time in a place where the opportunity to shoot exists?

And just how many hunters are capable of hitting a barn at 1,000 yards much less an animal?

What are we talking about, 1/2 of one tenth of a percent, or less possible animals wounded out of the total number hunted each year as a result of long range shot attempts ?

How many animals are wounded by novice hunters per year?

How about, instead of arguing about a non issue, we instead take a novice hunter out for a day and help them learn a bit.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

Shooting at big game at extreme range is deemed unethical by the hunting community throughout North America. My personal standards are just my opinion, they are not the accepted ethical standard by which hunters in general are bound ethically.

Nice try but you didn't dodge the question.
YOU brought up ethics as an all ending argument and it isn't.
You did not answer any of those questions in body, but you sure did let everyone know your opinion , which actually doesn't count for squat because it's based I would assume, on emotion.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

Shooting at big game at extreme range is deemed unethical by the hunting community throughout North America. My personal standards are just my opinion, they are not the accepted ethical standard by which hunters in general are bound ethically.

No it is not deemed unethical throughout North America.
You should maybe check out the myriad long range forums before making a statement like that.
Crap hunting itself, is unethical if that is the way you want to look at the world.
Cat

[H380]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Is this really something worth dividing hunter over.

How many opportunities at 1,000 yard plus shots will the average hunter have in one life let alone one year.
How often would game, season, tags distance time and hunter all come together at the same time in a place where the opportunity to shoot exists?

And just how many hunters are capable of hitting a barn at 1,000 yards much less an animal?

What are we talking about, 1/2 of one tenth of a percent, or less possible animals wounded out of the total number hunted each year as a result of long range shot attempts ?

How many animals are wounded by novice hunters per year?
How about, instead of arguing about a non issue, we instead take a novice hunter out for a day and help them learn a bit.

Well put

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

Shooting at big game at extreme range is deemed unethical by the hunting community throughout North America. My personal standards are just my opinion, they are not the accepted ethical standard by which hunters in general are bound ethically.

No it's not, it's frowned upon by some and totally accepted by others. You are still only stating your opinion and trying to pass it off as fact.
Fail again.

[JD848]

I think everyone has there own way of hunting,this guy that started this one knew darn well how to fire up some guys,if we argue or debate stuff like this to often it's not good for any hunter.Just read the news and there's a big majority that hates hunters period.If we didn't like hunting we would not be on the AO ,so everyone take care.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

Contrary to what you believe morals and ethics which regulate society are set by society, not individually. You can have your own standards but if they infringe on the ethics society has set for whatever the issue you can't claim they are justified because they are your personal values.

These morals and ethics that are set by society are really just a combined set of individual standards...

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

The hunting society as a whole condemns shooting at such extreme range because the chances of something going wrong increase as range increases. Thus this extreme long range shooting is unethical period.

Prove it.

[last minute]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Howdy folks! I watched a YouTube video of some guy shooting a moose. He claims the range was 1100 yards. I called BS and was stomped on. I did some research on laser rangefinders and their limitations and the atrocious ballistics of even the best bullets pushed to unattainable velocities. Still, many respondents claimed I was "jealous" I couldn't/wouldn't take the shot.

So....what are your thoughts? BS or what?

where is the video !!!!!

[Tall Texan]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Nice try but you didn't dodge the question.
YOU brought up ethics as an all ending argument and it isn't.
You did not answer any of those questions in body, but you sure did let everyone know your opinion , which actually doesn't count for squat because it's based I would assume, on emotion
Cat

I have no intention of replying to each of your individual questions. If you want to start a thread on each I'm in. Extreme long range shooting at big game is considered unethical for all the reasons mentioned, a handful of forums similar to this one do not define ethics for the hunting community fortunately.

Keg is likely right when he says only a few animals are lost every year as a result of extreme long range shooting, but this is true because hunters are generally ethical and don't practice the stunt not because everyone is doing it.

848 - what's not good for hunting is ignoring what the general population and hunters in general do not find acceptable [ethical] The reaction to the recent rhino and lion shootings should make this obvious. The Texas government said the public reaction to the rhino shooting was the largest they had ever received on any issue. To a lessor degree the elk cull at Suffield is another example as evidenced by the majority of media coverage and also the discussion on this forum.

Jordon is right that ethics are the average of the accepted morals and standards of in this case both the public and hunting community. This is why individuals cannot determine if some practice is ethical. I can agree or disagree but I cannot class a practice as ethical or not. If you want proof do some research.

It does not bode well for huntings future when hunters themselves are so out of touch with the general population. Hunting for meat with a family or friend component is acceptable, trophy or sport is not. The practice of congratulating a successful hunter on the forum and commenting "good eats" is highly commendable and indicates a lot of hunters do have things in proper perspective.

Just like morality you cannot legislate ethics.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by stvnbrg

There is not even a remote possibility of that happening. And if it does it sure won't be because of long range shooting.

Are you saying that our seasons aren't more restricted than they used to be, critters we used to get general tags for are now on draw and so on. If people can now bag game that was out of reach for most a few years ago their success rate goes up even further. With the amount of long range guns scopes and equipment being sold and seen out hunting it is becoming quite popular, in fact long range hunting and shooting has become a boom industry and one of the fastest growing sectors of the hunting industry. More tags are getting filled because of it. Our ability to hunt many animals gets more restricted every year and is inversely proportional to our success at harvesting these animals. Our success rate is increasing all the time from all sorts of advancements that make it easier to hunt them.

There is nothing wrong with long range shooting it's just another advancement in hunting technology which includes everything from climbing tree stands, animal calls, camoflauge, scents, decoys, rangefinders, etc, etc,. All these help make us more successful hunters and continually stacks the odds in the hunters favor. Will there come a time when we have to draw a line.?The technology is already out there for remote online hunting, you give them your visa and they set a gun up and you aim it through your computer, click your mouse and you shoot your animal. When this first came out the hunting community was pretty much outraged and poopooed this as extremely unethical. In twenty years will we have people saying there is nothing wrong with it, will we still call it hunting when we can lay on the couch at home, go to a website, shoot an animal by then have it delivered cut and wrapped, head ready to mount on the wall, will we still call it hunting?

What is the definition of hunting anyway? Obviously it means different things to different people.

[Tall Texan]

When you can control the uncontrollable variables involved in long range hunting then you can say there is nothing wrong with it. No amount of technology can.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

I have no intention of replying to each of your individual questions. If you want to start a thread on each I'm in. Extreme long range shooting at big game is considered unethical for all the reasons mentioned, a handful of forums similar to this one do not define ethics for the hunting community fortunately.

Keg is likely right when he says only a few animals are lost every year as a result of extreme long range shooting, but this is true because hunters are generally ethical and don't practice the stunt not because everyone is doing it.

848 - what's not good for hunting is ignoring what the general population and hunters in general do not find acceptable [ethical] The reaction to the recent rhino and lion shootings should make this obvious. The Texas government said the public reaction to the rhino shooting was the largest they had ever received on any issue. To a lessor degree the elk cull at Suffield is another example as evidenced by the majority of media coverage and also the discussion on this forum.

Jordon is right that ethics are the average of the accepted morals and standards of in this case both the public and hunting community. This is why individuals cannot determine if some practice is ethical. I can agree or disagree but I cannot class a practice as ethical or not. If you want proof do some research.

It does not bode well for huntings future when hunters themselves are so out of touch with the general population. Hunting for meat with a family or friend component is acceptable, trophy or sport is not. The practice of congratulating a successful hunter on the forum and commenting "good eats" is highly commendable and indicates a lot of hunters do have things in proper perspective.

Just like morality you cannot legislate ethics.

Lots of judgment there. I recommend you hunt the way you want to hunt, enjoy your meat and leave it at that.

[Jordan Smith]

Originally Posted by Tall Texan

I have no intention of replying to each of your individual questions. If you want to start a thread on each I'm in. Extreme long range shooting at big game is considered unethical for all the reasons mentioned, a handful of forums similar to this one do not define ethics for the hunting community fortunately.

Keg is likely right when he says only a few animals are lost every year as a result of extreme long range shooting, but this is true because hunters are generally ethical and don't practice the stunt not because everyone is doing it.

848 - what's not good for hunting is ignoring what the general population and hunters in general do not find acceptable [ethical] The reaction to the recent rhino and lion shootings should make this obvious. The Texas government said the public reaction to the rhino shooting was the largest they had ever received on any issue. To a lessor degree the elk cull at Suffield is another example as evidenced by the majority of media coverage and also the discussion on this forum.

Jordon is right that ethics are the average of the accepted morals and standards of in this case both the public and hunting community. This is why individuals cannot determine if some practice is ethical. I can agree or disagree but I cannot class a practice as ethical or not. If you want proof do some research.

It does not bode well for huntings future when hunters themselves are so out of touch with the general population. Hunting for meat with a family or friend component is acceptable, trophy or sport is not. The practice of congratulating a successful hunter on the forum and commenting "good eats" is highly commendable and indicates a lot of hunters do have things in proper perspective.

Just like morality you cannot legislate ethics.

LOL, I've done research and have seen no proof that the general hunting community disdains long-range hunting. So all that proves to me is that you're wrong.

Rather than conform to the average standard of ethics in our society (which is quickly becoming more and more liberal/removed from reality), I would prefer to be a leader in establishing what SHOULD be an acceptable standard of ethics, breaking the mold in the process.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Howdy folks! I watched a YouTube video of some guy shooting a moose. He claims the range was 1100 yards. I called BS and was stomped on. I did some research on laser rangefinders and their limitations and the atrocious ballistics of even the best bullets pushed to unattainable velocities. Still, many respondents claimed I was "jealous" I couldn't/wouldn't take the shot.

So....what are your thoughts? BS or what?

It is only unethical if you the individual can’t deliver.

[troutLakeJohnnie]

Originally Posted by JD 848

I think everyone has there own way of hunting,this guy that started this one knew darn well how to fire up some guys,if we argue or debate stuff like this to often it's not good for any hunter.Just read the news and there's a big majority that hates hunters period.If we didn't like hunting we would not be on the AO ,so everyone take care.

Actually, you are very wrong. I started the thread asking for information. I was slagged on YouTube regarding my questioning the ethics and veracity of the shooter. I received many nasty remarks but not a single logical explanation as to how to judge wind, barometric pressure, crosswinds form all around the compass between shooter and target. I did not receive any hint from all the crap they dumped as to how the bullet manufacturers have done the science and research to layout ballistic charts with a plethora of weights, BC, velocities and calibers yet they mean nothing!

No...I wanted to learn and discuss.

[wally338]

Originally Posted by troutLakeJohnnie

Actually, you are very wrong. I started the thread asking for information. I was slagged on YouTube regarding my questioning the ethics and veracity of the shooter. I received many nasty remarks but not a single logical explanation as to how to judge wind, barometric pressure, crosswinds form all around the compass between shooter and target. I did not receive any hint from all the crap they dumped as to how the bullet manufacturers have done the science and research to layout ballistic charts with a plethora of weights, BC, velocities and calibers yet they mean nothing!

No...I wanted to learn and discuss.

If you happen to be southern SK Johnnie, I would be happy to show you some high end longrange gear and give you the opportunity to to try it for yourself.

[troutLakeJohnnie]

I have a sister near Saint Grigor, near Humboldt. I would love to see you do your stuff. Again though, I would like to read how you judge a moose is at exactly 1100 yards, not 1125 or 1070 because that would mean a clean miss, over or under. Laser rangefinders have a .05% error IF you can get a clean and proper reflextion. This does not deal with crosswinds which are rarely 90 degrees on. The variances are huge.

Anyway, would love to meet you and become enlightened!

Regards,
TLJ

Originally Posted by wally338

If you happen to be southern SK Johnnie, I would be happy to show you some high end longrange gear and give you the opportunity to to try it for yourself.

[Tall Texan]

Reading the threads on the rhino and lion shootings and this extreme range one have been very informative for me. I had no idea AB "hunters" felt the way they do. It's very unfortunate.

Enjoy yourselves lobbin em out there, I won't bother you further.