Ignorance is no excuse

[Braun]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

sadly i fear this
gun registry wont make criminals register guns
A fishing course wont make a poacher stop poaching.....most poaching is done by a hardened poacher not a fisherman that is ignorant to the law. We only see the ignorant fisherman because they fish in public.......real damaging poachers are like ghosts.

Keho is a prime example...ive tryed to do what i can, Most have not!!!

an educational course wouldnt stop poaching your right. that is a separate issue. the people who poach do it with intention to poach. a course will not stop that. but a course can offer several other benefits to not only anglers but the state of the ecosystem.

[BeeGuy]

Well, I'm not intending to insult everyone in these 2 threads, however for all those bitching and moaning, there hasn't been very many solutions offered.

Here is one:

If anyone is really that concerned, angered, etc, do your community a favour and become a bonded peace officer.

Any peace officers here that can provide some insight into the process??

[Braun]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

never killed a man with a errant treble hook.

I'd rather break the rules than pay for a fishing course.

There are far too many fees as it is.

I recall fishing the NW one time and realized I had 2 licenses, 4 tags, plus classified tickets.

Enough is enough.

If all the major fishing access points in AB were clearly posted with reg's and fine rates$$, it would help greatly.

We shouldn't need a course in order to understand legislation. It should be easily accessible and comprehend-able for every Canadian, regardless of language.

Bzzz

seriously. we pay F-all for our fishing licenses. 25 a year? that seriously is nothing. pro rate that over the amount of times you go out in a year. You would probably be down to about .50 every trip or less. if you choose to get walleye tags and waste your money on that, then thats your choice(waste of money IMO. suck it up and put the effort into finding a 50+cm fish. if you dont want to put in the effort then your stuck with trout). A course would be a one time thing that you take the first time you get a licence. pro rate that over the years you will fish the rest of your life and suck it up. I would gladly pay 40, 50, even 60 a year if it meant that the money was being put back into the resources. this is an issue in alberta and a different topic all together (because NO MONEY seems to get invested properly into our resources) but you should get my point. look at what it costs to get a bc licence these days? in all honesty. 25 bucks is nothing.

and dont give me the excuse that everything else fishing related costs sooooo much. sure it does. but do you need to buy a case full of 100-$10 crank baits to catch fish? no, you dont. fishing can be as cheap as you want it to be. rod, reel, line and a bag of hooks and you can go out and catch something.

[Braun]

beeguy,

why the hell are you talking about people wanting to become a peace officer. no one here is talking about that. we are talking about weather or not a mandatory EDUCATIONAL COURSE would benefit the state of our waterways. no one in this thread is complaing about the job the COs are doing. we are discussing how to make our fisheries better.

do you even know where you are right now? you say there hasnt been many solutions offered....... this is a thread discussing one potential solution to one of the many problems our waterways have. and that is uneducated people on the waters........ are you half asleep?

[BeeGuy]

Half awake, at least.

I hear you Braun. I have fished a lot in BC (hence the example I gave) and the cost killed me, especially as a uni student. I was happy to see that the cost in AB is reasonable and is also the same for all Canadians (non-residents aren't double$$ as in BC).

Back on topic, I really don't think a mandatory fisher education course is appropriate. It would literally be creating a piece of legislation in order to manage the excess of legislation that's been established. The reg's are excessive. I think they are good, and appear to be working well in combination with the extensive stock enhancement efforts, however a 100pg regs manual is not reasonable in my opinion.

I agree that the concept is good. We need to engage people with information more often/effectively. I personally don't want anymore legislation in my life. I'm sure the few CO's out there are doing a fine job, but there clearly isn't enough enforcement.

My driver's training course didn't stop me from speeding, a written warning and then a speeding ticket did. I don't speed anymore.....it's not worth it

These 2 topics are reciprocal. In your suggestion, we all go to a central location to listen to an instructor, in my suggestion, the instructor (PO) comes to us, on the water.

Better yet, if a ministry would bond 100 volunteers who are regular fisherpeople, we could in effect, police our own community. There is definitely a large enough group of retirees to draw from.

As well, there's clearly a few folks here who are capable of keeping their panties from bunching and would make great nominees.

[GaryF]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Half awake, at least.

however a 100pg regs manual is not reasonable in my opinion.

Not sure where there is a 100 pages of regs to read. The pertinent information on fishing in alberta is maybe all of 4 pages, the rest are water body specific regs. Its a reference guide for when you go to certain lakes and rivers. I have no idea about specific regs for northern lakes and rivers, but if I was to make a trip to one of them, I would pull out the regs and check to see what they were. I doubt anyone would expect a fisherman to know every water body specific reg, but you should know the basics such as the definitions of the terminoligy used, general angling rules(ie one line into open water, barbless etc.) and how to handle fish. A basic course could take no more than 2 hours and would go a long way to providing better fisher ppl and a healthier fishery. Just my opinion tho.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Cause anyone can fish....all you need is to fill out a WIN card form....pay for it.....get a number ....buy a fishing license and then a buddy to tell you the rules and supply you with a couple rods....

LC

HAHAHAHAHA

[Braun]

Sorry beeguy, I was a bit irritable last night. I was exhausted from the elong day and for the life of me could not fall asleep and did not mean to come off as angry as I did.

I do agree with you that your suggestion is one way and maybe the most effective way to deal with a lot of the issues we have on our waters. You said it best with the speeding example. The only difference is people know they are breaking the rules when they speed. Where as a person may not realize they are improperly handling a fish. There is a lack of education to the average angler. Although with more co s around these people are more likely to encounter one and be taught properly. But I don't think that is the way to handle that issue.

Without a course, more cos are important

[Redfrog]

For most people the regs are all that is needed. The time it takes to have acoffee, I can be current with each year's regs.

There are many who are just stalled trying to negotiate the regs. I'm not referring to those with language issues, that is a whole other topic.

I teach the hunter ed course and there are always some students who need detailed instructions to understand how to use the booklet.

We see questions on here all the time about regs. I understand some find it easier for whatever reason to post a question rather than look it up, but there are others who can't find the answer even though they have made the effort.
It is what it is. I'm not advocating a course I'm asking for some positive feedback.

What about a mandatory course if for those who get tickets or convictions?

Like anger management courses for poor posting on the internet.

[Braun]

i would need one of them anger courses you speak of I think. I agree with you Red there is people who need that extra help with the regs. I think a course for those ticketed is not a bad Idea. but it depends on what they are ticketed for. If they knew what they were doing when they were breaking the law, a course post fine will not stop them from doing it again. like beeguy said, defensive driving and drivers ed did stop me from speeding...... Most people would just view that as another hoop to jump through.

Personally I think a one time course taken when you first get your licence is not a bad idea. but it also brings up other issues. what about out of towners who want to fish with a bud for a weekend....... your going to make them sign up for a course to buy a day pass or are you goign to let them be exempt to the course? That wouldnt be fair to those forced to take the course.

as good as an idea as it is. It doesnt seem extremely practical. I think if there were more COs, harsher fines people would take the rules more seriously and educate themselves a little more.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Okay, outdoors wise, so far we have a Hunter's Education course, Firearms Handling course (PAL) and soon to be here Boat Operator course.....just wait for it. NOW we should have mandatory Fishing course, Snowmobile course, ATV course, Camping course, Hiking course, Outdoors Etiquette course (including how to poop in the bush & spit seeds), Using Horses for Hunting course, Pack Dog Hunting course (Only if it's new but it can be incorporated into the Hunter Ed for all the people that will never hunt with them to know about) etc, etc, etc. There's gotta be more courses that we need but those are the only ones that I can think of right offhand!

I think that everyone needs to take a breath and think about the route that we are going here......

Okay..........Why do we need a Fishing course again?

As an ATV operator, snowmobile, quad, gator, dirt bike - I am all for a course on responsible riding. Fishing? Read the regs, they are self explanatory aren't they??? if you can read the application for a WIN & Fish license, enough of the BS... don't blame some of the hard nosed conserv. officers for being the way they are.

Why not adopt some stiffer penalties like out east?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Fishing? Read the regs, they are self explanatory aren't they??? if you can read the application for a WIN & Fish license, enough of the BS... don't blame some of the hard nosed conserv. officers for being the way they are.

Why not adopt some stiffer penalties like out east?

^^^^^
I agree with this but clearly people are not reading regs and not understanding them....so I believe like you...they should admit it, they should accept it, take their lumps, and learn it for next time.

When has too much education been a bad thing? I think a fishing course for new fishermen/new canadians (who want to fish) would be a good thing (mandatory or not). If you ever get caught and charged with an offence then it becomes mandatory. I understand the issues with "I don't want to have to pay for another course, and its a money grab opportunity, etc"

Clearly there IS a need for more education or we wouldn't have people claiming ignorance to rules all the time. People wanting reduced fines and sentencing because "they didn't know"...or "the buddy told them it was ok"...

I take responsibility for my screw ups.....I think other should to. It is easier to find an excuse and justify why someone was mistaken and did something wrong than it is to say, "ok you are right I am wrong I messed up, now let me take my lumps"

LC

[KegRiver]

I hate to say it, I hate manditory courses, but I think manditory Fisher courses may be a good idea.

Not for old foggies like me and Red but think of all those young folks who have no one to mentor them these days.
I know it wouldn't ever replace mentoring, but they would at least have a starting point with such a course.

Same for folks new to this country. And it wouldn't hurt me or folks like me to sit through a course or two. Over the years one can develop some bad habits. A reminder of proper etiquit ext. once in a while sure can't hurt.

Gee! did I just say that!!

[Gust]

When I was in Grade 9, we had the regular options, shop-swimming-golf and Alberta Fish & Game classes, and it was very hard to get that option,,, the book was massive and the test was brutal, very intensive as the teacher was a full on old Alberta Hunter and Fisherman.

[chubbdarter]

Red.....innocent questions
Where does the funding come from for hunter training, is it self supporting?
Sadly i wish all Canadians spoke english but how does the course work for non speaking - non understanding people of the english language?
Im not bashing your idea, simply trying to gain knowledge.
thanks

[Gust]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Red.....innocent questions
Where does the funding come from for hunter training, is it self supporting?
Sadly i wish all Canadians spoke english but how does the course work for non speaking - non understanding people of the english language?
Im not bashing your idea, simply trying to gain knowledge.
thanks

i'm not red but,

there are indo-canadian clubs and many bilinguals of the new canadians language who have been here for awhile.

my question is; would you volunteer your time to teach a course? it doesn't really need to cost,, maybe a $20 initial fee or whatever.

[Braun]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Red.....innocent questions
Where does the funding come from for hunter training, is it self supporting?
Sadly i wish all Canadians spoke english but how does the course work for non speaking - non understanding people of the english language?
Im not bashing your idea, simply trying to gain knowledge.
thanks

very good question. I am interested in how this works for hunters as well

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by GustavMahler

i'm not red but,

there are indo-canadian clubs and many bilinguals of the new canadians language who have been here for awhile.

my question is; would you volunteer your time to teach a course? it doesn't really need to cost,, maybe a $20 initial fee or whatever.

Gus im not educated well enough to teach any course.....i got a high school diploma because my dad donated the funding for the elementary school playground.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

For most people the regs are all that is needed. The time it takes to have acoffee, I can be current with each year's regs.

True, I have seen old guys like you in the coffee shops nursing a cup of coffee for hours..........and hours...........and hours................

[boot]

I think if a mandatory course is introduced, you'll have quite the drop in license purchases. Also, it would deter new anglers from being introduced into the sport (might sound good short term, but to have declining interest and less money over the long term would be disastrous for sport fishing).

As an alternative approach, I think it would be a good idea to have an online open book quiz each year before your license is issued. Being online would reduce the adminstrative costs and the quiz wouldn't be a "knowledge/memorization" quiz, but instead it would be more of a "raise awareness" quiz. Anglers would look up information in the regulations to answer questions. This would inevitablly raise awareness of the importance of regulations and would also provide some basic awareness of common regulations (such as barbless, catch limits, single rods, etc).

Also, the quiz shouldn't be punitive (i.e. fail and no license), but instead, you would just take it again immediately with a new set of questions. You could keep taking the quiz, until you pass. Again, it wouldn't solve all our problems, but it would raise awareness about regulations.

[iliketrout]

My two cents FWIW...

It doesn't matter how many courses and tests and regs etc. there are. Increasing the number of tests and licenses to hold will only make the average, law-abiding angler have to jump through hoops to get a license. It may serve as additional revenue to SRD and therefore pay for more officers and more enforcement. If that was the case I'd be all for it...but then again I'd glady pay double for my license to get the same result.

I'd go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of poachers are doing it by choice and not by negligence. The whole language barrier/lack of comprehension/I didn't know the regs is simply an excuse after getting caught. No amount of courses and tests will eliminate poaching. IMO it's a knee-jerk reaction to a serious problem when we have the amount of fishing pressure as seen in AB's lakes and rivers.

I think the only way to reduce poaching is to increase enforcement...covering that tab is the million dollar question. As I said before, I'll gladly pay more for my license to do so...

[The Fisherman Guy]

Originally Posted by iliketrout

My two cents FWIW...

It doesn't matter how many courses and tests and regs etc. there are. Increasing the number of tests and licenses to hold will only make the average, law-abiding angler have to jump through hoops to get a license. It may serve as additional revenue to SRD and therefore pay for more officers and more enforcement. If that was the case I'd be all for it...but then again I'd glady pay double for my license to get the same result.

I'd go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of poachers are doing it by choice and not by negligence. The whole language barrier/lack of comprehension/I didn't know the regs is simply an excuse after getting caught. No amount of courses and tests will eliminate poaching. IMO it's a knee-jerk reaction to a serious problem when we have the amount of fishing pressure as seen in AB's lakes and rivers.

I think the only way to reduce poaching is to increase enforcement...covering that tab is the million dollar question. As I said before, I'll gladly pay more for my license to do so...

X2 Well said ILT.

Some folks may not agree with my way of thinking, but when I see anyone blatently poaching, I call them out on it. If poachers are critisized publicly, they will think twice about breaking the rules in front of other people.

As I am sure this could be like kicking a hornets nest, I will provide an example:

Fishing the spillway at Travers; If I see someone, or a group of people fishing above the buoy's, I will mention to them that it is illegal. If they flip me the bird, claim they do not speak english, or continue, I notify the authorities and they deal with it. Most of the time, the poachers stop immediately. In this case, they are clearly poaching, so there is no uncertainty to the legality of their activities.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Gus im not educated well enough to teach any course.....i got a high school diploma because my dad donated the funding for the elementary school playground.

I think you could and there are probably 500 members who could tag team various parts of etiquette, regulations and so forth.

My parents were immigrants/dp's to England after the War,, my dad taught himself english by playing darts at the pub and litsnening to the radio,, they were of the generation "intergrate", they are still very strong in their culture but in no way played the ignorant card.

With all the desktop applications now, it wouldn't be that hard to translate the regs for whatever ethnicity.

and, community halls are open for such things, especially specialised esl,,

[gprime27]

hj

[Gust]

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[gprime27]

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[Gust]

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[Braun]

[gprime27]

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[Gust]

Originally Posted by Braun

What are you going to do with all that popcorn?