My meeting with my son's principal today

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by keeks

Well, thanks for sharing.

k

WOW insightful thanks for TROLLING

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

WOW insightful thanks for TROLLING

I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but each post you have made has been to question my claims. Unless you are a lawyer, you really don't have anything to say. Yes you are entitled to your opinion, and thank you for it.

So if the shoe fits.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but each post you have made has been to question my claims. Unless you are a lawyer, you really don't have anything to say. Yes you are entitled to your opinion, and thank you for it.

So if the shoe fits.

Sorry if my posts burst you bubble.I did not realize a person had to be a lawyer to reply to YOUR post didn't understand YOU were SPECIAL. If you think I'm trolling thats your opinion and your welcome to it.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Sorry if my posts burst you bubble.I did not realize a person had to be a lawyer to reply to YOUR post didn't understand YOU were SPECIAL. If you think I'm trolling thats your opinion and your welcome to it.

Ah yes there is the formidable Horsethief come to run roughshod on another thread. Oh thank you oh mighty one with your wisdom and grace.

Don't you have a helmet law to draft somewhere else?

[JB_AOL]

A weapon is the person using it. Otherwise it is nothing more than a tool.
However Bombs are definitely a weapon. They are not used for anything other than destruction of an enemy.

Fair enough.. But I guess it really depends on the context.

using your situation (sort of), bringing a weapon to school serves no point, except to inflict pain on others, unless of course there is a hunting course, target practise course, etc. Whether it was a complete accident, or intended, How are teachers to know? Especially in this day & age.

Now I know your son only brought a bullet by accident. To me, not a big deal, and shouldn't of been, if the teachers were willing to have a sitdown with kid/parent, and a quick search of the kids belonging to ensure no corresponding gun is there. Although looking to call child services/etc, seems to me there's more to the story. But it doesn't matter.

And yes, in this day & age, students practice "lockdowns" more than fire drills. IMHO, the teacher has every right to concerned if a tool (not required in school) is brought to school.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Fair enough.. But I guess it really depends on the context.

using your situation (sort of), bringing a weapon to school serves no point, except to inflict pain on others, unless of course there is a hunting course, target practise course, etc. Whether it was a complete accident, or intended, How are teachers to know? Especially in this day & age.

Now I know your son only brought a bullet by accident. To me, not a big deal, and shouldn't of been, if the teachers were willing to have a sitdown with kid/parent, and a quick search of the kids belonging to ensure no corresponding gun is there. Although looking to call child services/etc, seems to me there's more to the story. But it doesn't matter.

And yes, in this day & age, students practice "lockdowns" more than fire drills. IMHO, the teacher has every right to concerned if a tool (not required in school) is brought to school.

I think you missed the part that what he forgot in his pocket was merely the little piece of lead dug out from the back stop. Not a live bullet. Had he brought a live bullet, we would be having a much different conversation here.

The principal even admitted that had he not explained what the piece of lead was, nobody would have been the wiser. Which is why I found her reaction so out of touch, given his explanation that it was a mistake, and he forgot it in his pocket after he removed all the others.

[JB_AOL]

I think you missed the part that what he forgot in his pocket was merely the little piece of lead dug out from the back stop. Not a live bullet. Had he brought a live bullet, we would be having a much different conversation here.

Nope, I read that, but, I assumed Lead = bullet.

(But see how a simple mis-communication can lead down different roads).

Don't get me wrong, I'm still agreeing with what you said and did. And you are right, it was an over reaction in your case.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Ah yes there is the formidable Horsethief come to run roughshod on another thread. Oh thank you oh mighty one with your wisdom and grace.

Don't you have a helmet law to draft somewhere else?

HEY Oatey haven't heard from you in a long time glad to see you found someone to help you get a sentence down.

I got to go will be back in 3 hours you should be able to muster up a reply by then..... gday buddy

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

using your situation (sort of), bringing a weapon to school serves no point, except to inflict pain on others, unless of course there is a hunting course, target practise course, etc. Whether it was a complete accident, or intended, How are teachers to know? Especially in this day & age.

[...]

And yes, in this day & age, students practice "lockdowns" more than fire drills. IMHO, the teacher has every right to concerned if a tool (not required in school) is brought to school.

"[T]his day & age" what a load of crap! The only thing different about "this day & age" is that a lot more people are scared and for no apparent reason. Are you saying that if a kid forgets he has a screw driver in his back pack the teacher should be concerned?

ARG

[Bearen09]

Good on you, my wife is a teacher and I am 100% behind your actions...
This is true that some people use there power in the wrong way..
Teachers do take allot of crap from parents, but come please a piece of lead and a target.. Wow I wounder if his pencil would have broke what would have happened.
My wife knows nothing about guns exept that my 2 and 4 years old will both have the experience with the outdoors. They can pick what they like but they will be giving the choice..
On a side note from what you are saying, you handled yourself very well.I don't think I would have done the same.

[Bearen09]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

"[T]his day & age" what a load of crap! The only thing different about "this day & age" is that a lot more people are scared and for no apparent reason. Are you saying that if a kid forgets he has a screw driver in his back pack the teacher should be concerned?

ARG

No kidding........

[keeks]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

WOW insightful thanks for TROLLING

Really? You gave your opinion, I gave mine. And from what I read on here Horsetrader no one cares much for your input. And thats funny right? You are so very helpful all the time.

Ha, I LOve your signature too. Awesome autobiography.

k

[Lefty-Canuck]

Come to think of it...earlier this year my boy (9 in grade 3) took his first ever 22lr target to school for show and tell....never got a phone call about that one

LC

[JB_AOL]

"[T]his day & age" what a load of crap! The only thing different about "this day & age" is that a lot more people are scared and for no apparent reason.

Really.. I don't remember kids bringing guns to school and shooting people when I was young. Your ignorant if you think otherwise. Seems pretty justified to me.

Are you saying that if a kid forgets he has a screw driver in his back pack the teacher should be concerned?

I guess you didn't read the rest of the thread where some people are calling a firearm a tool. I was using their words. firearm = tool.

And no, I didn't say that. Although if the student is known for uttering threats or is a bully, and is carrying a screw driver, acting suspicous, yes. Teachers have every right to search them. Don't forget that they are acting as our kid's guardian while at school. If you don't like how they deal with situations, talk to them (like OP) or home school.

Let me ask you a question. How is this any different than an airport? Are our youth any different than you or I?

YES.. they are, whether you like it or not, our youth are the ones that will be taking care of us (both financially & physically) in the years to come. It's our responsibility to take care of them now. While I know what you are getting at (bubble-wrapped kids, kids are wimps compared to when we grew up, etc, etc.), I do not believe in coddling my (our) kids, BUT there are situations beyond their control in which an adult must intervene.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Had he brought a live bullet, we would be having a much different conversation here.

Why? If the principal had reacted to a live round this way, I still believe your actions are justified. The ignorance a d fear needs to be curtailed or all of us are screwed.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Really.. I don't remember kids bringing guns to school and shooting people when I was young. Your ignorant if you think otherwise. Seems pretty justified to me.



.

JB... You would be very surprised...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Difference is, today we have 24 hour news and that makes people extremly paranoid.. Micheal Moore was actually right about this one. (As much as that makes me sick to say)

Jamie

[rwm1273]

I appreciate that the schools do step in and intervene in some situations. However not every situation is worthy of Police intervention or Child and Family Services involvement.

It is when common sense is lost and every situation involves a call to a higher authority because of the "what may" happen if the child lives in a home with open access to guns, bullets, or screw drivers. As has been posted in other threads, the average gun owner is more law abiding than most, and most take care and control of guns around children as a high priority. Most people still are good.

And in my case, the principal even told me and my son that he is a good kid, and most of the time he is being recognized for doing good things. Which is why I find her actions so abysmal. If he is considered to be a good kid most of the time, then why the over reaction? She even mentioned that she was always able to get a hold me or my wife, or his mother, and that we always were willing to come into the school to deal with issues, and not all kids have that kind of support from their parents. So again why the over reaction? It is clear that it was her bias and dislike of guns that drover her actions.

[foxrider]

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Why? If the principal had reacted to a live round this way, I still believe your actions are justified. The ignorance a d fear needs to be curtailed or all of us are screwed.

If it was a live round, then I failed.

[JB_AOL]

Interesting..
Although that is only deaths. unless I'm missing something, do they indicate injuries from shooting @ schools?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/

Rates of youth crime occurring on school property have shown some fluctuations over the last few years. However, generally, youth crime rates at school have risen. According to policereported data, the rate for youth committing Criminal Code and drug offences on school grounds was up 27% in 2006 over 1998.11 This increase was due in part to an 18% rise in youth crime rates for Criminal Code offences committed at school, as well as a 66% rise in drug offences.

Weapons were not present in most crimes occurring on school property, either during or after supervised hours. About 7% of all youth crimes committed on school grounds involved weapons and less than 1% of all school crimes in Canada involved firearms. Moreover, police-reported data from 1998 to 2006 indicate that these figures are consistent with previous years.12 When a weapon was present, it was most often a knife or blunt object. Among those school incidents where a weapon was known to be present, 36% involved a knife or some other cutting instrument, 14% a club or other blunt instrument and 9% a gun. In the remaining incidents, some other type of weapon was used.

This indicate that there is neither a rise or decline. So we're both wrong in regards to guns.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Really.. I don't remember kids bringing guns to school and shooting people when I was young. Your ignorant if you think otherwise.

Think so? They have been happening for about as long as there have been firearms. The fact of the matter is, "this day & age" is a lot safer then the "day & age" I went to school. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

I guess you didn't read the rest of the thread where some people are calling a firearm a tool. I was using their words. firearm = tool.

I'm supposed to infer your meaning based on what someone else said? How could that possible go wrong? I don't recall anyone on this thread discussing someone taking a firearm to school.

Let me ask you a question. How is this any different than an airport?

Are you saying that you believe the level of airport security we have is reasonable? If so, that explains a lot.

It's our responsibility to take care of them now. While I know what you are getting at (bubble-wrapped kids, kids are wimps compared to when we grew up, etc, etc.), I do not believe in coddling my (our) kids, BUT there are situations beyond their control in which an adult must intervene.

Which is why I taught my children not to be scared of strangers, how to think critically and how to assess risk. Things that a lot of adults in "this day & age" don't seem to be capable of.

ARG

[JB_AOL]

I appreciate that the schools do step in and intervene in some situations. However not every situation is worthy of Police intervention or Child and Family Services involvement.

It is when common sense is lost and every situation involves a call to a higher authority because of the "what may" happen if the child lives in a home with open access to guns, bullets, or screw drivers. As has been posted in other threads, the average gun owner is more law abiding than most, and most take care and control of guns around children as a high priority. Most people still are good.

I agree, Although you can thank our friends to the south for this. Good old liability.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

If it was a live round, then I failed.

I like your style!

ARG

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

I agree, Although you can thank our friends to the south for this. Good old liability.

I don't think we can blame them for paranoia. Perhaps their interest in law suits, but not paranoia.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I don't think we can blame them for paranoia. Perhaps their interest in law suits, but not paranoia.

Regardless of what old Horsethief has to say I applaud what you did and how you went about it.

I am surprised they didn't call in HAZMAT for the lead!!

[twofifty]

^ this.

A good teacher would have taken the opportunity to let the class discover some of the properties of lead.

Step away from the books and filmstrips for 20 minutes to demo softness/malleability, that it can be used to write somewhat like a pencil, and maybe even melt it down into a puddle - then back to the drudgery of the usual curriculum.

But no, that requires imagination and experimentation. Don't want to expose the children to those dangerous concepts.


btw, rwm1273, great parenting job and good on you for edumacating the school's principal.

[JB_AOL]

Sigh...

Think so? They have been happening for about as long as there have been firearms. The fact of the matter is, "this day & age" is a lot safer then the "day & age" I went to school. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

Is it really. Not according to stats canada.

I'm supposed to infer your meaning based on what someone else said? How could that possible go wrong? I don't recall anyone on this thread discussing someone taking a firearm to school.

YES you are. if you are replying to a post you are supposed to READ the whole thread. internet 101..

Are you saying that you believe the level of airport security we have is reasonable? If so, that explains a lot.

Did I say that.. NOPE. But how is that any different. Our kids are MORE important than the average person on a plane.

Which is why I taught my children not to be scared of strangers, how to think critically and how to access risk. Things that a lot of adults in "this day & age" don't seem to be capable of.

Sure hope that's a typo... I agree, and do the same.. But someone coming to school and shooting people is out of YOUR's & your KID's control. End of story.

It's called mitigation measures. That doesn't mean we stop doing everything, but take calculated risks.

Someone taking a weapon (stay with me) to school is beyond my kid's or my control. So I must rely on his guardian to make judgement calls based on their experience/knowledge (teacher or school).

[Coulee]

When I attended high school in Calgary, there was a rifle club that shot .22's right in the basement of the school, supervised by a teacher. I hate seeing the pussification of our male children at the hands of others in the name of political correctness.

Do teachers really think boys shouldn't play cops and robbers? Games involving good versus evil have been around forever, and play a role in all children's development. Nothing wrong with it. Kids understand that Wiley Coyote really wouldn't survive falling off the cliff and they understand a real gun would kill you. Teach my kid to read...I'll look after the rest.

[darius]

Originally Posted by Coulee

When I attended high school in Calgary, there was a rifle club that shot .22's right in the basement of the school, supervised by a teacher. I hate seeing the pussification of our male children at the hands of others in the name of political correctness.

Do teachers really think boys shouldn't play cops and robbers? Games involving good versus evil have been around forever, and play a role in all children's development. Nothing wrong with it. Kids understand that Wiley Coyote really wouldn't survive falling off the cliff and they understand a real gun would kill you. Teach my kid to read...I'll look after the rest.

hate to say it but what you reffer to as the the pussification above is not just male children , but all of soceity !!

[Mistagin]

Mudduck (post # 40) said, "Not to Hijack the thread but a few years ago I was in Texas and had a laugh - We went to a church and their was a sign that said - Please check all concealed handguns before entering the sanctuary."

There's a church (of my denomination) in Michigan that built a new fellowship hall and underneath it in the basement they specifically designed and built a state-of-the-art archery range. The senior pastor at the time had the visionary foresight to do so as part of his Outdoorsperson's ministry.

When I was in highschool I built a new stock for my .22 as a shop project. Had to have the rifle there to fit it in. Nobody objected.

My youngest son did a military diorama in school - soldiers, tanks, artillery, planes, etc, - and he was encouraged to do so.
He was also in a military co-op in high school, and often went to school in his fatigues if there was an exercise he was to go on after school (no weapons though). He also wore his dress uniform to school for Remembrance Day and gave presentations on weapons handling - and that was in this century!

Things have changed, and not for the better.