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Old 11-04-2019, 01:38 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Default Wildlife Officers Powers

So on a three hour drive back from a hunt, the conversation turned to what rights a FW/CO have in regards to searching a vehicle. He was adamant they had carte blanch authority. after some googlin quite a bit of info was found, mostly armchair lawyers opinions.

then i found this one, from a real lawyer, with a real case. its an interesting read. one thing that i believe he(the lawyer) is a bit confused on is the violation his client received in regards to improperly maintaining evidence of sex and species of an animal in transport. the case really focused on the search, not the original infraction which it appears the accused was guilty of.

regardless, info on roadside searches and charter rights, and when officers can/cannot search your vehicle. take it as you want. my opinion is that FW/CO perform illegal searches to often, and they shoudl be informed of that if they want to search a vehicle. just my opinion.

https://www.advocatedaily.com/greg-d...zure-dunn.html

PS, i didn't get stopped or had my vehicle searched, just sayin.

as there are a lot of opinions on the interweb, it good to know exactly, in the eyes of the courts, what a legal search is

i think i'll print this article out and keep it in my glovebox,,,,, just because.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:05 PM
WhiteTailAB WhiteTailAB is offline
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I once got a warning from a wildlife officer because I didn't have a license on me. Funny thing was was that I was driving to the farm, which is where I hunt, which is where my license was. I don't hunt from the truck on the road so..... I figured he was giving a warning to assert his authority and justify his stop check on the corner of the RR and TWP.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:14 PM
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Part 6 of the Wildlife Act pretty much sums this up.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:46 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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and charter rights trump all provincial laws
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
Part 6 of the Wildlife Act pretty much sums this up.
Which now appears to be unforcible.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:07 PM
Sportsman Sportsman is offline
 
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Default Fish and Wildlife

My advice to anyone pulled over by them is to immediately begin videotaping them and recording the conversation. You should even let them know you are recording the conversation. Everyone should read up and understand their charter rights and not let F&G walk all over them. They will twist questions and words to gain authority to search etc, they are trained to do this. Cooperate but say as little as possible, if they push the envelope which most of them do simply ask them if you are being investigated for something. If they say no, tell them you will be leaving and have a nice day.

Of course if you are hunting, show them your licenses etc and the properly tagged animal. You do not need to disclose where the animal was taken nor take an officer back to a gut pile. This has never happened to me but I do know a few guys that were asked to do this. Bottom line is their mandate in Alberta is all about enforcement and spend very little time on conservation like they should be. It’s actually quite sad how poorly run this group is compared to other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:34 PM
WinefredCommander WinefredCommander is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sportsman View Post
My advice to anyone pulled over by them is to immediately begin videotaping them and recording the conversation. You should even let them know you are recording the conversation. Everyone should read up and understand their charter rights and not let F&G walk all over them. They will twist questions and words to gain authority to search etc, they are trained to do this. Cooperate but say as little as possible, if they push the envelope which most of them do simply ask them if you are being investigated for something. If they say no, tell them you will be leaving and have a nice day.

Of course if you are hunting, show them your licenses etc and the properly tagged animal. You do not need to disclose where the animal was taken nor take an officer back to a gut pile. This has never happened to me but I do know a few guys that were asked to do this. Bottom line is their mandate in Alberta is all about enforcement and spend very little time on conservation like they should be. It’s actually quite sad how poorly run this group is compared to other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA.

Horrendous advice.. This is what idiots in the US do. You must be an American.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsman View Post
My advice to anyone pulled over by them is to immediately begin videotaping them and recording the conversation. You should even let them know you are recording the conversation. Everyone should read up and understand their charter rights and not let F&G walk all over them. They will twist questions and words to gain authority to search etc, they are trained to do this. Cooperate but say as little as possible, if they push the envelope which most of them do simply ask them if you are being investigated for something. If they say no, tell them you will be leaving and have a nice day.

Of course if you are hunting, show them your licenses etc and the properly tagged animal. You do not need to disclose where the animal was taken nor take an officer back to a gut pile. This has never happened to me but I do know a few guys that were asked to do this. Bottom line is their mandate in Alberta is all about enforcement and spend very little time on conservation like they should be. It’s actually quite sad how poorly run this group is compared to other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA.
Sad that we have to be in an adversarial relationship, when we should be on the same side. but you gotta do what you gotta do. Thinking right now of the F&W officer who had the misfortune of abusing his now boss. He got called out in court for that.

Grizz
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsman View Post
My advice to anyone pulled over by them is to immediately begin videotaping them and recording the conversation. You should even let them know you are recording the conversation. Everyone should read up and understand their charter rights and not let F&G walk all over them. They will twist questions and words to gain authority to search etc, they are trained to do this. Cooperate but say as little as possible, if they push the envelope which most of them do simply ask them if you are being investigated for something. If they say no, tell them you will be leaving and have a nice day.

Of course if you are hunting, show them your licenses etc and the properly tagged animal. You do not need to disclose where the animal was taken nor take an officer back to a gut pile. This has never happened to me but I do know a few guys that were asked to do this. Bottom line is their mandate in Alberta is all about enforcement and spend very little time on conservation like they should be. It’s actually quite sad how poorly run this group is compared to other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA.

You should preface that statement by location. See some places it is le you have to tell them where the animal was harvested and return tot he kill site IF requested. Your setting people up to fail there super chief!
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsman View Post
My advice to anyone pulled over by them is to immediately begin videotaping them and recording the conversation. You should even let them know you are recording the conversation. Everyone should read up and understand their charter rights and not let F&G walk all over them. They will twist questions and words to gain authority to search etc, they are trained to do this. Cooperate but say as little as possible, if they push the envelope which most of them do simply ask them if you are being investigated for something. If they say no, tell them you will be leaving and have a nice day.

Of course if you are hunting, show them your licenses etc and the properly tagged animal. You do not need to disclose where the animal was taken nor take an officer back to a gut pile. This has never happened to me but I do know a few guys that were asked to do this. Bottom line is their mandate in Alberta is all about enforcement and spend very little time on conservation like they should be. It’s actually quite sad how poorly run this group is compared to other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA.
Pizz poor advice. Doing what you describe would only being done by someone who does not respect authority and or whom has something to hide. Brutal.
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:47 AM
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whitetail Junkie whitetail Junkie is offline
 
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I once got a warning from a wildlife officer because I didn't have a license on me. Funny thing was was that I was driving to the farm, which is where I hunt, which is where my license was. I don't hunt from the truck on the road so..... I figured he was giving a warning to assert his authority and justify his stop check on the corner of the RR and TWP.
X2...hunting Antelope in 2014.Glassing a nice goat off the road with the officer in his truck...told him I had permission and was going to make a stalk.he said he wanted to watch...sure I didn’t care...with all the excitement forgot my tag/licence in my pack back in the truck....I got the goat but had to walk back for the tag....we both kind of laughed abit as he wrote out the warning for not tagging immediately or having my licence on me however I did learn my lesson and Never have forgotten again.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
X2...hunting Antelope in 2014.Glassing a nice goat off the road with the officer in his truck...told him I had permission and was going to make a stalk.he said he wanted to watch...sure I didn’t care...with all the excitement forgot my tag/licence in my pack back in the truck....I got the goat but had to walk back for the tag....we both kind of laughed abit as he wrote out the warning for not tagging immediately or having my licence on me however I did learn my lesson and Never have forgotten again.
Would have been nicer if he would have given you a verbal warning. The warning you got is part of your "record". It is there forever and if you ever make another small error this first one will come up and can only be used against you.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:56 PM
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Would have been nicer if he would have given you a verbal warning. The warning you got is part of your "record". It is there forever and if you ever make another small error this first one will come up and can only be used against you.
Did’nt know that...however I’ll never make that mistake again...the guy was abit of a stickler I guess.
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:02 PM
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whitetail Junkie whitetail Junkie is offline
 
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Once in northern Saskatchewan we saw a herd of whitetail 1 mile away so dad put up the spotting scope and glassed the herd.we could see the SERM officer 2 miles up the road parked facing us...after glassing the herd and seeing no big bucks we carried on in the truck and were pulled over by the officer lights/Siren a blazing...told us he saw my dad stick a rifle out of the truck and point it @the deer...to bad 4 him the season wasn’t open yet and we were scouting and didn’t have any firearm in the vehicle...let him search the truck and then called him a goof and told him to hit the road and not bother us again.
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:56 PM
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I have NEVER run into a negative situation regarding F&W officers (here, sask and BC). EVER! Treat them with respect and they will return in kind. Heck I've even had some with tips on areas to hunt/fish. Nothing but respect for these underfunded LEO's. I'm sure there are bad apples but I have only seen nothing but top notch pros out there.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:13 PM
warriorboy10 warriorboy10 is offline
 
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i am a law abiding citizen and have had zero issue with the different branches of authority but it is frustrating when made to feel guilty whenever confronted. That shouldn’t be the case and definitely does no good for the position of authority!

Last edited by warriorboy10; 11-04-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:34 AM
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Wish they were like the game wardens down south...a little more law enforcement duties etc.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:01 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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The only issue I have had with f&w is being held up trying to get to my hunting spot. Basic check my licence, tags, weapons, and if I have been successful and on my way. I would say most are good and just doing their job

Out of all the hunters I know I would say most of their experiences would be similar to mine. But I know of 3 incidents that F&W was out of line with hunters I know personally and trust so it is good to know the laws.

Odds of a hunter who is following the laws and being respectful having a problem with F&W is low in my opinion I would say 1% or less considering the experience of the circle of hunters I know
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:05 AM
Faststeel Faststeel is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
The only issue I have had with f&w is being held up trying to get to my hunting spot. Basic check my licence, tags, weapons, and if I have been successful and on my way. I would say most are good and just doing their job

Out of all the hunters I know I would say most of their experiences would be similar to mine. But I know of 3 incidents that F&W was out of line with hunters I know personally and trust so it is good to know the laws.

Odds of a hunter who is following the laws and being respectful having a problem with F&W is low in my opinion I would say 1% or less considering the experience of the circle of hunters I know
Couldn't agree more, in my experience....FS
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:43 PM
Gilly87 Gilly87 is offline
 
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im curious as well to know the power they have as I believe a lot of searches are illegal.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:47 PM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post
im curious as well to know the power they have as I believe a lot of searches are illegal.
From the Wildlife Act.

Status as peace officer

65(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian, in executing the duties and functions and exercising the powers of that office, is a person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace.

(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a wildlife guardian shall not exercise the powers of arrest given to a peace officer by section 495 of the Criminal Code (Canada) as adopted by the Provincial Offences Procedure Act.

(3) Wildlife officers and wildlife guardians

(a) are the persons with the primary responsibility of enforcing this Act, and

(b) without limiting their other powers, have all powers that are required for, that are incidental to or that form part of

(i) the performance of their duties, whether or not those duties are specifically referred to in this Act, or

(ii) any enforcement, investigation, administration or process under or relating to this Act or any directions, requirements, orders or prosecution or other legal proceeding under or relating to this Act.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s65;2002 c30 s33

Entry on and the passing over of land

66(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without a warrant, enter on and pass over any land while lawfully engaged in the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions given him or her by, or that otherwise relate to the enforcement of, this Act, including those implied by section 65.

(2) Subsection (1) does not in itself authorize the entry into any tent, building or other structure or any search or seizure.

(3) The officer or guardian, while lawfully engaged in the entry on or the passing over of the land in accordance with subsection (1), is liable only for damage that he or she wilfully causes.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s66;2002 c30 s33;2009 c36 s4

Power to stop and order movement of vehicles, etc. and animals

67(1) A wildlife officer, while lawfully engaged in the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions referred to in section 66(1), may signal or otherwise order

(a) a person operating a vehicle, aircraft or boat or riding or leading a pack‑animal to stop it forthwith or to move it to a particular place and then stop it, or

(b) a person carrying a pack to stop,

and that person shall forthwith comply with that signal or order and shall not proceed until the end of any period of time that is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to conduct any lawful inquiries.

(2) This section does not apply with respect to an aircraft that is in flight.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s67;2002 c30 s33;2009 c36 s5

Power to demand licence, permit, etc.

68(1) Where a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian believes that a person is or has been hunting wildlife, the officer or guardian may require that person to produce

(a) any licence authorizing the person to hunt that wildlife, or

(b) if the person is a person referred to in section 26(2), the instrument referred to in that subsection.

(2) Where an officer or guardian believes that a person may have engaged in an activity for which a permit is required, the officer or guardian may require that person to produce the permit authorizing the person to engage in that activity.

(3) Where an officer or guardian believes that a person is transporting wildlife in a vehicle, aircraft or boat, the officer or guardian may require that person to produce the documents referred to in section 57.

(4) When an officer or guardian requires a person to produce anything under this section, that person shall forthwith produce it to the officer or guardian.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s68;2002 c30 s33

Inspection of subject animals

69(1) In this section,

(a) “structure” means a building, tent or other structure that is not a private dwelling;

(b) “transport” means a vehicle, aircraft, boat, pack‑animal or pack.

(2) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may require the operator or person in possession of any transport or the owner or occupant of a structure to produce all subject animals in or on the transport or structure, as the case may be, for the purpose of inspection to determine the sex, species and size of the animals or to ascertain whether disease or parasites are present in or on the animals or whether the animals are lawfully possessed or, if dead, tagged, if

(a) any subject animal in or on the transport or structure is in plain view of the officer or guardian, or

(b) the officer or guardian has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that there is a subject animal in or on it.

(3) An officer or guardian may require the operator or person in possession of any transport or the owner or occupant of a structure to produce all endangered organisms in or on it for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are lawfully possessed, if

(a) any endangered organism in or on it is in plain view of the officer or guardian, or

(b) the officer or guardian has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that endangered organisms are present there.

(4) When an officer or guardian requires a person to produce subject animals or endangered organisms under subsection (2) or (3), that person shall forthwith produce to the officer or guardian all subject animals or endangered organisms, as the case may be, in or on the applicable transport or structure.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s69;2002 c30 s33

Inspection of weapons, ammunition and projectiles

70(1) If a weapon, ammunition or projectile or any part of it

(a) is in or on a vehicle, aircraft or boat or is being transported on an animal or by a person who is on foot, and

(b) is in plain view of a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian,

the officer or guardian may require the person who is or who appears to be in possession of that weapon or other thing to produce it for the purpose of inspection to determine whether it is there in circumstances constituting a danger to public safety or whether or not it is possessed in accordance with this Act.

(2) When an officer or guardian requires a person to produce anything for inspection under subsection (1), that person shall forthwith produce it to the officer or guardian.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s70;2002 c30 s33

Search, etc., without warrant

71(1) If distance, urgency, the imminent danger of the loss, removal, destruction or disappearance of evidence or other relevant factors do not reasonably permit the obtaining of a warrant, a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without obtaining a warrant,

(a) enter into and search any premises or a place, vehicle, aircraft, boat or a building, tent or other structure,

(a.1) search any land lawfully entered on under section 66, or

(b) search any container, including a pack, or any pack‑animal,

if the officer or guardian believes on reasonable and probable grounds that there is in or on it any evidence of an offence against this Act.

(1.1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian who has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the lawful exercise of any powers or the lawful performance of any duties or functions referred to in section 66(1) necessitates the examination or inspection of anything or any location referred to in subsection (1)(a), (a.1) or (b) or of any subject animal or other property may, without a warrant, perform that examination or inspection, as the case may be.

(2) The officer or guardian shall not enter into or search the living quarters of a private dwelling under this section unless the officer or guardian is in immediate pursuit of a person who the officer or guardian has reasonable and probable grounds to believe has committed an offence against this Act.

(3) The power to conduct a search, examination or inspection under this section must

(a) be exercised at a reasonable hour having regard to the circumstances underlying the reasonably perceived need for the search, examination or inspection, and

(b) be exercised in accordance with the prescribed restrictions.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s71;2002 c30 s33;2009 c36 s6

Inspection of permit and other premises

72(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without obtaining a warrant, enter at any reasonable hour

(a) any premises that the officer or guardian has reason to believe are permit premises, or

(b) any other premises where

(i) any authority is required by or under another statute, including a federal statute, to possess any subject animals or endangered organisms, or

(ii) a commercial service in relation to butchering, skinning, dressing or plucking dead subject animals is offered,

and where the officer or guardian has reason to believe that subject animals or endangered organisms may be found at the time of entry, other than the living quarters of a private dwelling, for the purpose of inspecting the premises and any subject animals and endangered organisms found in them and any records required to be kept by or under this Act or the Fur Farms Act.

(2) If it appears to a justice, on information laid before the justice on oath, that there are reasonable and probable grounds for believing that the living quarters of a private dwelling contain any premises referred to in subsection (1), the justice may issue a warrant authorizing an officer or guardian to enter those quarters, by force if necessary, for the purpose of inspecting the quarters and any subject animals and endangered organisms found in them and any records referred to in subsection (1).

(3) Before entering the living quarters under subsection (2), an officer or guardian shall take reasonable steps to find the person in possession of them and shall endeavour to obtain the consent of that person.

(4) A permit holder or other person in charge of the premises referred to in this section shall, for the purpose of an inspection under this section, give all reasonable assistance to the officer or guardian carrying out the inspection and provide access to all relevant areas of the premises and provide all information, records and copies required to be kept by or under this Act and all other records referred to in subsection (1).

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s72;2002 c30 s33;2003 c49 s14;2011 c12 s32(21)

Production of identification

73 In the exercise of a wildlife officer’s or wildlife guardian’s powers and duties under this Act, an officer who is not in uniform or a guardian shall produce the officer’s or guardian’s badge or certification of the officer’s or guardian’s appointment on being requested to do so.

RSA 2000 cW‑10 s73;2002 c30 s33

Powers of seizure

74(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may seize anything that the officer or guardian believes on reasonable and probable grounds may afford evidence of, or was used in, the commission of an offence against this Act.

(2) The officer or guardian shall, on seizing anything under subsection (1), give a receipt for it to the person, if any, having physical possession of it when it was seized.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2019, 12:52 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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yah,

pretty easy to cut and paste.

here's mine(again)


https://www.advocatedaily.com/greg-d...zure-dunn.html

"The Crown recognized in the case brought by Dunn that stopping and searching a person must only be done if officers have reasonable suspicion. What would that entail in the context of a wildlife investigation?

“Well, maybe if you have a hoof sticking out of your trunk, or you’re dressed in camo gear and there’s blood running down your truck,” Dunn says. “There must be some indication you’ve hunted, and you’re not just driving in the area.”

In urban terms, that’s in line with Charter protections against being stopped for drug investigation just because you’re driving in an area known for drugs, he says."
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2019, 01:17 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post
im curious as well to know the power they have as I believe a lot of searches are illegal.
and according to the ruling above, they probably are.
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2019, 01:42 PM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
and according to the ruling above, they probably are.
Its not a ruling its a news article.

Yes random stops are unconstitutional and in the case of the guy that was caught breaking the law, the crown didn't press the charges due to possibility of losing the case due to a charter challenge.

F&W still have broad powers for stop and search. Just need a bit more reasonable doubt than just a vehicle driving in a place frequented by hunters.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2019, 02:34 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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apologies. not a ruling.

the crown did drop the charges because they knew the CO/FW did an illegal stop/search. they also chose to drop it because they would rather sweep it under the carpet than have the judgement against them entered into case law.

this is something(illegal stop and search by FW/CO) that occurs all to often according to many of the comments.

My, very simple question is, why are they doing it, and why do their supervisors allow them to do it, after a case like this? tells me they will continue to throw as much as they can on the wall and see what sticks.

why should citizens have to put up with this kind of harassment?

now maybe they are doing less of it. who knows. i do know, personally, if asked, in the future, to search my vehicle, tent, bag i will be asking what their probable cause is.

the random stopping, whatever(even though that is also in question according to charter rights) show them your gun, show them your license, and be on your way. that'll be my settle.
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  #26  
Old 11-08-2019, 06:04 AM
Full Curl Earl Full Curl Earl is offline
 
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Anyone ever met a guardian before? Or is this really old? I have met volunteer Guardians at remote lake areas but they certainly dont perform any enforcement duties.
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