Erin O'toole

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

In order for a Conservative government to get elected they need the votes in the East. A Liberal government doesn’t need Western votes to get elected. If getting Eastern votes means making concessions then so be it. At least some Conservative values will return to Canada. After that O’Toole has four years to de-program people and steer us in the right direction.

Last election seven Conservative seats were lost due to people voting for Maxime Bernier. In the end it didn’t matter but here we go again with Wexit.....sigh. Separation may sound great but splitting the vote will ultimately guarantee a perpetual Liberal government. Talk about shooting your self in the foot!

For some no one will ever be Conservative enough for them. I think that they should look more at what Liberal policies they are getting rid of and the Conservative policies that they will get with O’Toole and forget about the policies that they want but aren’t part of the Conservative platform.

I personally like O’Toole because I’m fully aware that we need votes in all regions of Canada, not just the West. I think that he’ll garner votes in QC and ON. He has relatively strong support in both of those provinces and that’s what’s needed to oust sparkly socks.

If Harper couldn't deprogram anyone in 11 years, what chance does O'Toole have in 4 years? Honest question; how Liberal will you become to vote conservative? IF Justin wore a blue tie would you vote for him?

Do you want to know how to stop splitting votes; its easy. Liberals vote Liberal, conservatives vote for a conservative party. Would your gun rights be fought on the same principles of elections? Just give up the semis, bolts, and pumps so we can keep our conservative levers and single shots. Until the next election when we have to move more left. To some of us, that is not an option. Now voting in liberals to defeat Liberals I think is shooting oneself in the foot. Ralph warned us decades ago about this.

Since the Liberal party rules about 2/3 of the time and conservatives about 1/3 of the time if Justin is elected for 2/3 of the time and then we elect somebody left of Jean Chretien the other 1/3 how will the conservatives ever restore conservative values?

Your last two paragraphs I mostly agree with. I think O'Toole has already done better than Scheer. So far I think he's OK. Do I think he will turn the country into conservatives; absolutely not.

May as well save the gas money and hand in all of the firearms at once and save the trouble. The only other option is saying no I will not give you my firearms. In this scenario that is separation in case you aren't following my train of thought. That is the only way the West can live with their own values instead of living by Toronto values. Your choice, but don't you dare ever slag anyone trying to be a conservative. Its your camp selling us down the river.

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by Smokey

Not impressed, and I am not even a Social Conservative.

Not down with catering to Liberals with the Paris Pandering.

Trudeau said all sorts of lies before he was elected, maybe toole is doing the same. Either way I think he's got a way better chance than scheer ever did.

[Smoky buck]

I don’t like the future of Canadian politics and don’t feel any of the parties have the best interest of the people with my lifestyle

Otoole is the best of the worst but not a big step up from the worst

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

That is the only way the West can live with their own values instead of living by Toronto values. Your choice, but don't you dare ever slag anyone trying to be a conservative. Its your camp selling us down the river.

I would have to agree... Except there are a lot of people with Liberal values in Alberta. This isn't the Alberta we grew up with anymore. It's becoming increasingly difficult to identify traditional Western values around here.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

If Harper couldn't deprogram anyone in 11 years, what chance does O'Toole have in 4 years? Honest question............

I do agree in principle with you, but the fact of the matter is I would still have what Harper gave us any day of the week over why Trudeau has done, and if that means holding my nose and voting, I will.

Like I tried to put across earlier... You either change what you can change in the moment we have in front of us, or you accept the result of sticking to your core principles, and the results are blatantly obvious to us all. I am not even judging that as right or wrong. It is just an observation.

Yes, in your mind it might seem like you are taking a stand (I am referring to the collective "you" and not you specifically), but the reality is it is just knowingly and willingly standing by and intentionally watching it crumble maybe in the hopes that the rest of the country will come around, but it won't. All that thinking is doing is setting us all up for everyone to become even more reliant on handouts and securing the socialist mindset for our children, and their children to come.

I dunno... Earlier I used the term "pouting in the corner" which came across wrong I think. I was trying to imply that while one is blinded by anger about one thing, they are ignoring the 3 other things that are beneficial. No change is going to bring about anything overnight, so do we just quit and wait for Venezuela 2.0 or do we start working on what we can work on and make the effort to affect change from within. If I have learned anything over the years it is that nobodies mind gets changed by trying to beat them into submission with hostility and rhetoric. For someone to change they need to come into it of their own volition and that isn't happening how we are doing things.

I am super frustrated by the whole situation right now too, but I for one am not ready to throw in the towel and give up on trying to make things a little better today hoping for a much better tomorrow.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

If Harper couldn't deprogram anyone in 11 years, what chance does O'Toole have in 4 years? Honest question; how Liberal will you become to vote conservative? IF Justin wore a blue tie would you vote for him?

Do you want to know how to stop splitting votes; its easy. Liberals vote Liberal, conservatives vote for a conservative party. Would your gun rights be fought on the same principles of elections? Just give up the semis, bolts, and pumps so we can keep our conservative levers and single shots. Until the next election when we have to move more left. To some of us, that is not an option. Now voting in liberals to defeat Liberals I think is shooting oneself in the foot. Ralph warned us decades ago about this.

Since the Liberal party rules about 2/3 of the time and conservatives about 1/3 of the time if Justin is elected for 2/3 of the time and then we elect somebody left of Jean Chretien the other 1/3 how will the conservatives ever restore conservative values?

Your last two paragraphs I mostly agree with. I think O'Toole has already done better than Scheer. So far I think he's OK. Do I think he will turn the country into conservatives; absolutely not.

May as well save the gas money and hand in all of the firearms at once and save the trouble. The only other option is saying no I will not give you my firearms. In this scenario that is separation in case you aren't following my train of thought. That is the only way the West can live with their own values instead of living by Toronto values. Your choice, but don't you dare ever slag anyone trying to be a conservative. Its your camp selling us down the river.

Giving up our guns is NOT an Erin O'Toole policy.

AN O’TOOLE-LED OPPOSITION WILL:

-Oppose efforts to reverse the former Conservative government’s policy advances on firearms, including the Trudeau government’s new proposals to confiscate legal firearms.

-Oppose regulations that do not advance public safety and instead penalize law abiding firearms owners. This includes the arbitrary reclassification of firearms and magazines.

An O’Toole government will update Canada’s firearms legislation to ensure that it is evidence-based and focuses on keeping Canadians safe, not demonizing those Canadians the Liberals do not like.

https://erinotoole.ca/platform/tackl...al-gun-owners/

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I do agree in principle with you, but the fact of the matter is I would still have what Harper gave us any day of the week over why Trudeau has done, and if that means holding my nose and voting, I will.

Like I tried to put across earlier... You either change what you can change in the moment we have in front of us, or you accept the result of sticking to your core principles, and the results are blatantly obvious to us all. I am not even judging that as right or wrong. It is just an observation.

Yes, in your mind it might seem like you are taking a stand (I am referring to the collective "you" and not you specifically), but the reality is it is just knowingly and willingly standing by and intentionally watching it crumble maybe in the hopes that the rest of the country will come around, but it won't. All that thinking is doing is setting us all up for everyone to become even more reliant on handouts and securing the socialist mindset for our children, and their children to come.

I dunno... Earlier I used the term "pouting in the corner" which came across wrong I think. I was trying to imply that while one is blinded by anger about one thing, they are ignoring the 3 other things that are beneficial. No change is going to bring about anything overnight, so do we just quit and wait for Venezuela 2.0 or do we start working on what we can work on and make the effort to affect change from within. If I have learned anything over the years it is that nobodies mind gets changed by trying to beat them into submission with hostility and rhetoric. For someone to change they need to come into it of their own volition and that isn't happening how we are doing things.

I am super frustrated by the whole situation right now too, but I for one am not ready to throw in the towel and give up on trying to make things a little better today hoping for a much better tomorrow.

I believe we think very similarly. I volunteer quite a bit in my community. I won't stop trying to improve my community ever. Where we differ is I'd rather just be shot and have it over with instead of being paper-cut to death.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Giving up our guns is NOT an Erin O'Toole policy.

AN O’TOOLE-LED OPPOSITION WILL:

-Oppose efforts to reverse the former Conservative government’s policy advances on firearms, including the Trudeau government’s new proposals to confiscate legal firearms.

-Oppose regulations that do not advance public safety and instead penalize law abiding firearms owners. This includes the arbitrary reclassification of firearms and magazines.

An O’Toole government will update Canada’s firearms legislation to ensure that it is evidence-based and focuses on keeping Canadians safe, not demonizing those Canadians the Liberals do not like.

https://erinotoole.ca/platform/tackl...al-gun-owners/

You realize my mention of firearms was not a debate on policy; it was an analogy or metaphor?

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I believe we think very similarly. I volunteer quite a bit in my community. I won't stop trying to improve my community ever. Where we differ is I'd rather just be shot and have it over with instead of being paper-cut to death.

Haha! I hear you... I am the same way as a rule, but with what we are facing right now I don't think the result will be that quick painless death. I think it will be more of a long term starvation. I do hope I am wrong of course!

Edit* As a side note, the reason I believe slow and steady change can work is because it is my personal life experience and the experiences of many I know and have observed. When I came out to Alberta almost 20 years ago I was much more left than I am now, but having people who took the time with me to demonstrate and effectively show my different ways is what brought me around to a different way of thinking, and I have observed that same thing amongst many others who have moved here from places where things are, shall we say, far less than politically on the right. Many have moved from very left to middle, and many in the middle have moved right. The truth is almost all of those people came around because of productive conversation and demonstration. Not because they got smashed in the teeth with it. That kind of conversion almost never works.

[markg]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

“Conservatism” is evolving and there is no going back to the good old days to have a chance of being electable...and that has to be the goal if there is to be any hope of stemming the tide.

If what your saying is true, why remain part of a nation that does not reflect our values?

If you always have to compromise is it worth it?

Its like saying well my wife cheats on me lies to me and takes my money but I have to make some compromises so we dont get a divorce.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by kingrat

Trudeau said all sorts of lies before he was elected, maybe toole is doing the same.

My youngest son was saying something similar... "What if you would campaign on ultra-liberal policies, and then just do a bait-and-switch"?

[Submoa_hunter]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

I hear this one a lot...so what is your solution??

To get this province out of canada or ideally the whole west. The demographics of Alberta (and most of western Canada) are diverging in opposite directions from eastern canada. Conservative governments will get fewer and fewer in the future. The only good option was the PPC last election but conservative voters kept saying how it would split the vote yet it was the only conservative option. The CPC is a dumpster fire of weak swamp rat "conservatives". Dont even get me started on Harper.

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by markg

If what your saying is true, why remain part of a nation that does not reflect our values?

If you always have to compromise is it worth it?

Its like saying well my wife cheats on me lies to me and takes my money but I have to make some compromises so we dont get a divorce.

Successful marriage’s compromise.

Scheer’s tent was too small… Couldn’t hold up to a very weak liberal party and leader. O’Toole is making a big tent. I’m impressed... he’s in it to win it.

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by sns2

Likely the only realistic chance. Move left, appeal to Quebec, and play to whatever it is the 905 area code wants. Sucks to say it, but true.

Seems the whole western world is moving left. Liberals are socialists, "New Democrats " are communists. Conservatives need to become liberal-like just to get elected.
Whatever the CPC has to evolve into has GOT to be better than what the Turd thinks his legacy should be.

[260 Rem]

As much as an East-West thing, the tendency to “liberalism” is evolving into an urban-rural divide... so after time, a separate West is likely to end up in the same place it endeavored to avoid.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Haha! I hear you... I am the same way as a rule, but with what we are facing right now I don't think the result will be that quick painless death. I think it will be more of a long term starvation. I do hope I am wrong of course!

Edit* As a side note, the reason I believe slow and steady change can work is because it is my personal life experience and the experiences of many I know and have observed. When I came out to Alberta almost 20 years ago I was much more left than I am now, but having people who took the time with me to demonstrate and effectively show my different ways is what brought me around to a different way of thinking, and I have observed that same thing amongst many others who have moved here from places where things are, shall we say, far less than politically on the right. Many have moved from very left to middle, and many in the middle have moved right. The truth is almost all of those people came around because of productive conversation and demonstration. Not because they got smashed in the teeth with it. That kind of conversion almost never works.

I agree with your edit part of the post. There are days I wish they never would have figured out how to separate the oil from that sand,lol. The massive influx of capital came into a province that did not have the work force to sustain it, hence the migration of thousands of people from central and eastern Canada. Most brought long their left leaning politics with them and sadly some came because they had heard that the streets were paved with gold and all they had to do was show up and life would be bliss. Unfortunately no one had told them about the boom and bust cycle of the oil industry and when things slowed down they looked at the Gov't. to bail them out....the province was debt free right?..the Gov't's of Stelmach, Redford and Notley could spend like drunken sailors and the oil price would look after everything...right???. It's taken a hard kick in the backside to our economy to realize that we can't afford life as we knew it as a society. Some will grasp this concept quicker than others, sadly the last to grasp it will be the elected people because if they lose their position, they would have to return to the private sector hell that they alone have created and try to make a living in it. So their only option is to keep handing out "free stuff" by piling on debt to our kids, grandkids and great grandkids, but hey!! the groups they are targeting with my tax dollars will keep voting for the thiefs..so the circle continues, but it is now a circle around the toilet bowl for this country

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Haha! I hear you... I am the same way as a rule, but with what we are facing right now I don't think the result will be that quick painless death. I think it will be more of a long term starvation. I do hope I am wrong of course!

Edit* As a side note, the reason I believe slow and steady change can work is because it is my personal life experience and the experiences of many I know and have observed. When I came out to Alberta almost 20 years ago I was much more left than I am now, but having people who took the time with me to demonstrate and effectively show my different ways is what brought me around to a different way of thinking, and I have observed that same thing amongst many others who have moved here from places where things are, shall we say, far less than politically on the right. Many have moved from very left to middle, and many in the middle have moved right. The truth is almost all of those people came around because of productive conversation and demonstration. Not because they got smashed in the teeth with it. That kind of conversion almost never works.

I don't disagree with anything you say here, I think you are missing one key concept though. Bob, are you a Westerner or easterner? Now this may seem too simple or silly but it really is what it boils down to. You moved here embraced the lifestyle and "converted" for lack of a better term. Wonderful! How many of your cousins still back east have you converted? I'm guessing none. Any of the ones you did convert are already here working. Until the east moves out West they will never change their minds. As long as they remain in the east the echo chamber will ensure they remain solid left constituents.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I don't disagree with anything you say here, I think you are missing one key concept though. Bob, are you a Westerner or easterner? Now this may seem too simple or silly but it really is what it boils down to. You moved here embraced the lifestyle and "converted" for lack of a better term. Wonderful! How many of your cousins still back east have you converted? I'm guessing none. Any of the ones you did convert are already here working. Until the east moves out West they will never change their minds. As long as they remain in the east the echo chamber will ensure they remain solid left constituents.

Sorry this is just ridiculous, western Canada is not some sort of conservative utopia. Lots of people who've spent their entire lives here contributing to this province are left of center voters. Likewise there are plenty of conservative minded people throughout the rest of the country. In Alberta, our 40+ years of conservative party governments was the result of steady resource revenue floating the economy, resulting in stability. In fact that situation is a LOT less unique than you might think, it happens all over the world. Remember that Social Credit had a nice long run in this province before them too.

Personally I'm disappointed that the current government has managed to turn me into a single issue voter through this OIC nonsense despite myself. I'll support anyone who has a decent chance to get rid of it. I'm not happy about it though, I'd rather vote for something than against stuff. Trying to push centrist voters rather than grab them just won't work.

If the CPC wants to be successful that's what they're gonna have to figure out, give me a vision to vote for not grievances.

[raab]

“Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.”
― Thomas Sowell

This country was built on free markets, and those free markets are the reason we enjoy a great standard of living today. If the leftists get their way, they'll crush the free markets in over regulation, and we'll all suffer because it sounded good. Erin O'Toole is not what the CPC needed. We need to take an axe to all of Justin Trudeau's and Pierre Trudeau's policies and get things back on track in this country.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I don’t like the future of Canadian politics and don’t feel any of the parties have the best interest of the people with my lifestyle

Otoole is the best of the worst but not a big step up from the worst

And the US is in the same boat, neither presidential candidate is up to the job. We're facing the decline of North American preeminence.

Grizz

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

Sorry this is just ridiculous, western Canada is not some sort of conservative utopia. Lots of people who've spent their entire lives here contributing to this province are left of center voters. Likewise there are plenty of conservative minded people throughout the rest of the country. In Alberta, our 40+ years of conservative party governments was the result of steady resource revenue floating the economy, resulting in stability. In fact that situation is a LOT less unique than you might think, it happens all over the world. Remember that Social Credit had a nice long run in this province before them too.

Personally I'm disappointed that the current government has managed to turn me into a single issue voter through this OIC nonsense despite myself. I'll support anyone who has a decent chance to get rid of it. I'm not happy about it though, I'd rather vote for something than against stuff. Trying to push centrist voters rather than grab them just won't work.

If the CPC wants to be successful that's what they're gonna have to figure out, give me a vision to vote for not grievances.

Alberta definitely is a long way to the right of eastern Canada. Always have been. The social credit party of yesteryear would be to the right of Maxime Bernier. When speaking I never meant that every person in the east is left and every westerner is right. I was speaking in generalities that definitely ring true. Every family has a cousin that is a lefty that none of us admit to being related to. I also agree that we keep moving left. But we are a lot further away from Justin than the majority out east. If you don’t see that, just look at election results.

As for voting against OIC is absolutely a waste to vote for O’Toole. It’s just delaying the inevitable. If you want to keep your firearms vote for seperation and demand firearm be a constitutional right in the new country of buffalo. Your strategy is to elect O’Toole and have your firearms confiscated 5 years later when somebody left or Justin is elected and bans all firearms. O’Toole isn’t going to reverse the OIC and make your right to own firearms constitutional. They will be gone eventually but at least you had them for four more years right?

[raab]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Alberta definitely is a long way to the right of eastern Canada. Always have been. The social credit party of yesteryear would be to the right of Maxime Bernier. When speaking I never meant that every person in the east is left and every westerner is right. I was speaking in generalities that definitely ring true. Every family has a cousin that is a lefty that none of us admit to being related to. I also agree that we keep moving left. But we are a lot further away from Justin than the majority out east. If you don’t see that, just look at election results.

As for voting against OIC is absolutely a waste to vote for O’Toole. It’s just delaying the inevitable. If you want to keep your firearms vote for seperation and demand firearm be a constitutional right in the new country of buffalo. Your strategy is to elect O’Toole and have your firearms confiscated 5 years later when somebody left or Justin is elected and bans all firearms. O’Toole isn’t going to reverse the OIC and make your right to own firearms constitutional. They will be gone eventually but at least you had them for four more years right?

It's not just the family members. Theres people who voted NDP provincially and hold CPC party memberships. That shouldn't happen, they're too far apart ideologically. The CPC is full of people who call themselves conservatives, who are actually socialists, and those members should be holding Liberal or NDP memberships. Conservatives should focus on conserving our free markets, and if they want to move to the left then do it on the social issues. Unfortunately the CPC has it completely backwards trying to conserve the social issues, while letting our economy and freedom go to ruin.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by raab

It's not just the family members. Theres people who voted NDP provincially and hold CPC party memberships. That shouldn't happen, they're too far apart ideologically. The CPC is full of people who call themselves conservatives, who are actually socialists, and those members should be holding Liberal or NDP memberships. Conservatives should focus on conserving our free markets, and if they want to move to the left then do it on the social issues. Unfortunately the CPC has it completely backwards trying to conserve the social issues, while letting our economy and freedom go to ruin.

The left leaning folks in this province figured out the only way to get elected provincially was to become a closet Tory and win the nomination in their riding, as soon as they had accomplished that, the rest was easy....a la Allison Redford...

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by raab

It's not just the family members. Theres people who voted NDP provincially and hold CPC party memberships. That shouldn't happen, they're too far apart ideologically. The CPC is full of people who call themselves conservatives, who are actually socialists, and those members should be holding Liberal or NDP memberships. Conservatives should focus on conserving our free markets, and if they want to move to the left then do it on the social issues. Unfortunately the CPC has it completely backwards trying to conserve the social issues, while letting our economy and freedom go to ruin.

Originally Posted by hal53

The left leaning folks in this province figured out the only way to get elected provincially was to become a closet Tory and win the nomination in their riding, as soon as they had accomplished that, the rest was easy....a la Allison Redford...

Exactly. “Dad told me I was a conservative, I don’t know what it means or what it stands for but that’s where I put my X each election. I don’t even have to check to see what they are up to. If it says conservative it’s for me.”

[millartech]

You either adapt, evolve, change with the times or slowly become extinct. The conservative party's unwillingness to adapt will be its demise. It will happen everywhere, slowly but surely. Keep troting out the same ole fat white dudes that no one under 50 can relate to and expect different results. I think we all know what that is the definition of.

As for this province, many conservative people see Kenny and his people for what they are, snakes. He's not creating jobs, or lowering taxes, he's filling pockets and then running to federal politics. He'll probably have his little lacky Nixon in tow as well. They don't have anyone's interests at heart, not even their own members. Notley was better than this and many people who are open minded enough to not blindly vote a party can see it. People don't just vote a party name, they vote for platforms, not some blind loyalty. Kenny's platform and actions speak for themselves, brutal.

Federally if they went with someone that can actually relate to the common person not just the over 50 white male, maybe they would have had a chance, but they didn't, they went the same way they always do. They have shot themselves in the foot once again and have all but assured another term for Trudeau. When Harper stepped away if they would have been able to talk Rona Ambrose into running for party leader, things would be a lot different today, but they couldn't. She saw the writing on the wall and ran. So here we are and really it's nothing but their own fault.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Rvsask]

I find myself liking midgetwaiter’ and millartech’s take on things. There’s more to it than us vs them with the blinders on. I don’t even know if I like either us or them anymore.

I do know that O’toole’s public relations media manager really stunk it up with a photo of him watching the Raptors game last night. Anyone else see it?

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I don't disagree with anything you say here, I think you are missing one key concept though. Bob, are you a Westerner or easterner? Now this may seem too simple or silly but it really is what it boils down to. You moved here embraced the lifestyle and "converted" for lack of a better term. Wonderful! How many of your cousins still back east have you converted? I'm guessing none. Any of the ones you did convert are already here working. Until the east moves out West they will never change their minds. As long as they remain in the east the echo chamber will ensure they remain solid left constituents.

I am actually a westerner having grown up in small town BC (Keremeos) and both of my parents are small business owners who worked hard all there life and never gave anything to me. I did live out in the hardcore separatist Quebec area of La Beauce for four years (GASP! ) from when I left home at 16 to fend for myself (student exchange, could get in the bar and found out all about them French girls! lol!) until I was 21 and funny enough, they were more conservative than most! As you can tell though, I did come back.

When I say I was "more left", I really don't mean I was left like we consider left today at all. I just mean I was more left than who I have become. I think that is more a commentary of aging and experience. I will freely admit I am not at all conservative in the social aspect of things (IDGAF who someone marries, what, if any, religion they subscribe to, who smokes weed or any of those kinds of things). I am conservative in that a person is responsible for their own actions and behaviours. It isn't my job to carry someone else's butt anymore then it is for them to carry mine. I don't believe in waste of taxpayer dollars. I absolutely believe in helping my neighbours but it is my choice, not my obligation. I believe in small government and self reliance. I believe guns don't kill people and if I am a law abiding citizen you can shove your fear of gun ownership where the sun doesn't shine (and I don't actually even own a gun these days!) and all that goes with it.

I think I am basically a libertarian at heart. If I ain't hurting you, leave me alone. If you aren't hurting me, I will leave you alone. I just want to work, build a life, and let others do the same.

All this said, if leaving confederation is the right way forward, all you have to convince enough people you are right for it to happen. Are you going to be able to do that before the next election? No... It won't happen. Are you willing to watch us all fail while you are trying to accomplish that? I hope not but maybe you don't see another way forward. I just am not ready to accept that level of destruction yet. You never know. Maybe one day it will get to that point, but I really don't want to see it collapse today.

[raab]

Originally Posted by millartech

You either adapt, evolve, change with the times or slowly become extinct. The conservative party's unwillingness to adapt will be its demise. It will happen everywhere, slowly but surely. Keep troting out the same ole fat white dudes that no one under 50 can relate to and expect different results. I think we all know what that is the definition of.

As for this province, many conservative people see Kenny and his people for what they are, snakes. He's not creating jobs, or lowering taxes, he's filling pockets and then running to federal politics. He'll probably have his little lacky Nixon in tow as well. They don't have anyone's interests at heart, not even their own members. Notley was better than this and many people who are open minded enough to not blindly vote a party can see it. People don't just vote a party name, they vote for platforms, not some blind loyalty. Kenny's platform and actions speak for themselves, brutal.

Federally if they went with someone that can actually relate to the common person not just the over 50 white male, maybe they would have had a chance, but they didn't, they went the same way they always do. They have shot themselves in the foot once again and have all but assured another term for Trudeau. When Harper stepped away if they would have been able to talk Rona Ambrose into running for party leader, things would be a lot different today, but they couldn't. She saw the writing on the wall and ran. So here we are and really it's nothing but their own fault.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Kenny is doing what modern day conservatives want. Lowering taxes(he lowered corporate taxes, which in turn means we get a tax break as there’s only one taxpayer), privatizing services, cutting government and government spending, allowing choice in Education. And he’s not touching any of the social issues. I don’t love the guy by any means, but he’s doing what Conservative voters want. Not much different then Ralph in that regard.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I am actually a westerner having grown up in small town BC (Keremeos) and both of my parents are small business owners who worked hard all there life and never gave anything to me. I did live out in the hardcore separatist Quebec area of La Beauce for four years (GASP! ) from when I left home at 16 to fend for myself (student exchange, could get in the bar and found out all about them French girls! lol!) until I was 21 and funny enough, they were more conservative than most! As you can tell though, I did come back.

When I say I was "more left", I really don't mean I was left like we consider left today at all. I just mean I was more left than who I have become. I think that is more a commentary of aging and experience. I will freely admit I am not at all conservative in the social aspect of things (IDGAF who someone marries, what, if any, religion they subscribe to, who smokes weed or any of those kinds of things). I am conservative in that a person is responsible for their own actions and behaviours. It isn't my job to carry someone else's butt anymore then it is for them to carry mine. I don't believe in waste of taxpayer dollars. I absolutely believe in helping my neighbours but it is my choice, not my obligation. I believe in small government and self reliance. I believe guns don't kill people and if I am a law abiding citizen you can shove your fear of gun ownership where the sun doesn't shine (and I don't actually even own a gun these days!) and all that goes with it.

I think I am basically a libertarian at heart. If I ain't hurting you, leave me alone. If you aren't hurting me, I will leave you alone. I just want to work, build a life, and let others do the same.

All this said, if leaving confederation is the right way forward, all you have to convince enough people you are right for it to happen. Are you going to be able to do that before the next election? No... It won't happen. Are you willing to watch us all fail while you are trying to accomplish that? I hope not but maybe you don't see another way forward. I just am not ready to accept that level of destruction yet. You never know. Maybe one day it will get to that point, but I really don't want to see it collapse today.

Bob I think we are two political peas in the pod. My only problem with moving more socially liberal is the ever wanting more and continual movement. Pretty soon I’ll be a bigot for not supporting pedophiles. That is my only fear of being socially liberal. I support it, just fear the future.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by millartech

You either adapt, evolve, change with the times or slowly become extinct. The conservative party's unwillingness to adapt will be its demise. It will happen everywhere, slowly but surely. Keep troting out the same ole fat white dudes that no one under 50 can relate to and expect different results. I think we all know what that is the definition of.

As for this province, many conservative people see Kenny and his people for what they are, snakes. He's not creating jobs, or lowering taxes, he's filling pockets and then running to federal politics. He'll probably have his little lacky Nixon in tow as well. They don't have anyone's interests at heart, not even their own members. Notley was better than this and many people who are open minded enough to not blindly vote a party can see it. People don't just vote a party name, they vote for platforms, not some blind loyalty. Kenny's platform and actions speak for themselves, brutal.

Federally if they went with someone that can actually relate to the common person not just the over 50 white male, maybe they would have had a chance, but they didn't, they went the same way they always do. They have shot themselves in the foot once again and have all but assured another term for Trudeau. When Harper stepped away if they would have been able to talk Rona Ambrose into running for party leader, things would be a lot different today, but they couldn't. She saw the writing on the wall and ran. So here we are and really it's nothing but their own fault.

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Why would Kenny quit federal politics to come to provincial politics, to then return to federal politics?

Also, if people didn’t vote by name alone, and did care about the parties platforms; why would it matter if a fat white guy, or recent immigrant woman deliver the message?