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  #151  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by eggo View Post
Bow hunters need to except the facts they are going over the 15 o/o in some zones.
Sounds like you have some hard evidence! Post it up so we can see where you got your info from!
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  #152  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:35 AM
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Have seen it with my own eyes so you won't convince me it doesn't happen, but don't worry I know you with not believe me
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  #153  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by eggo View Post
Bow hunters need to except the facts they are going over the 15 o/o in some zones.
In a very short sighted incomplete data sort of way then yes they are exceeding. but that does not mean a knee jerk drastic change is needed. hell, how many "how do I put in my draws?" questions do we see on here? now we want to make even more rules that many people won't be able to figure out.
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  #154  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:36 AM
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Have seen it with my own eyes so you won't convince me it doesn't happen, but don't worry I know you with not believe me
Seen what ,the info? Strengthen your position and share!
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  #155  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:38 AM
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Thats the issue...people want to see numbers, something concrete. I see rifle hunters and bow hunters hunting all the time.....doesn't mean they all shoot what they are after.

If you see 20 bowhunters, how many of them shot a mule deer, how many of them were bucks?

There are lots of good and bad bowhunters out there, some hunt 1 day some hunt 100.....even out of the guys who hunt 100 days not all of them fold a tag on a mule buck.

LC
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  #156  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:43 AM
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One of the zones I hunt is on the hit list, can't say I've filled a general tag every year. 10 years of hard bow hunting and this year was the first buck I took out of that zone that wasn't on a draw tag.
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  #157  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:45 AM
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All iam saying there is problems in some zones if you as a hunter can't except that you are very selfish
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  #158  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by eggo View Post
All iam saying there is problems in some zones if you as a hunter can't except that you are very selfish
I don't see guy saying there are no issues....what I do see is guys who want to see real numbers and want to see real game management and who want to see people who make good decisions at the helm of it all.

Bowhunters seem to be targeted....the issue of deer numbers runs alot deeper than that, part of the issue is the bowhunters are the easiest group to handle and the easiest group to cut oppotunity from.

Go after the ones who hold the MAJORITY of tags in some zones....(hint, it is not the resident rifle and bow hunters).

LC
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  #159  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:47 AM
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All iam saying there is problems in some zones if you as a hunter can't except that you are very selfish
Again, without proper info and documentation , there really isn't a problem!
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  #160  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:52 AM
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Again, without proper info and documentation , there really isn't a problem!
Stick your head in the sand some more and you will lose a lot more than mule deer going on draw
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  #161  
Old 10-14-2012, 10:55 AM
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Stick your head in the sand some more and you will lose a lot more than mule deer going on draw
Lol...all the bowhunters are killing everything in my zone! i can't get anything! They leave nothing! I can't prove it, with legitimate documents, collect correctly.but I saw them! 50 of them in black duallys with huge Muleys in the back.

The sky is falling, right!
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  #162  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:02 AM
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Lol...all the bowhunters are killing everything in my zone! i can't get anything! They leave nothing! I can't prove it, with legitimate documents, collect correctly.but I saw them! 50 of them in black duallys with huge Muleys in the back.

The sky is falling, right!
Man are you narrow minded everything is perfect in every zone. You are not helping your cause
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  #163  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:07 AM
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Man are you narrow minded everything is perfect in every zone. You are not helping your cause
I'm a business man! Without properly collected data, and the actual data, I don't believe anything until I see it or know someone I trust has. Show me he numbers!

It's Srd's mandate to get everything on draw in AB, and we got people like yourself making it easier. If there is a fight to Be fought in your zone, because you believe there are issues, look at solutions that will actually help mule deer. Putting bowhunters on draw isn't going to make the numbers magically spring back,if that's your issue. Cause most arguments rifle hunters have, is it's just plain not fair, nothing to do with the mule deer.
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  #164  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:11 AM
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Again, without proper info and documentation , there really isn't a problem!
Srd says there is a problem they have some data that supports this. Where is your data that doesn't
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  #165  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eggo View Post
Srd says there is a problem they have some data that supports this. Where is your data that doesn't
SRD says alot of things....do agree with it all?

....where is the published data on hunter success rates and method of harvest?

....oh and data that states total tags available and who they are were allotted to.

LC
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  #166  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
SRD says alot of things....do agree with it all?

....where is the published data on hunter success rates and method of harvest?

....oh and data that states total tags available and who they are were allotted to.

LC
But you don't have data to dispute it. I don't believe everything say either.
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  #167  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:22 AM
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But you don't have data to dispute it. I don't believe everything say either.
Do you have the DATA to support it?...or are you just going off what SRD says?

....I am asking for SUPPORTING data, the dispute can't come until that is provided!

....if someone can provide that then maybe there is nothing to dispute....

You are missing the point some are trying to make, "the Data"....where is it? and what does it contain? how was it collected? is the data representative of the sample population?.....thats what people want to know.

LC
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  #168  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:22 AM
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I think what we need in some of these zones is to open up the season on the other predators. ie COUGARS !!!! Every one consumes a deer a week on average. Can you imagine how many deer are taken by just a handfull of cats in one zone for a year ??? Do the math.......

The scary part is that SRD doesn't have a clue how many cats are in many of these zones.
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  #169  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by eggo View Post
Srd says there is a problem they have some data that supports this. Where is your data that doesn't
Well, they came up with this problem, they want to make changes, it's up to them to show us the data, and prove the collection was done in a controlled no bias manner.

You don't fix a pipe, if you don't have leak. But if you do have a leak, you gotta determine where is coming from, and find the proper method and solution to fix it, wouldn't you agree... Or do you fix random pipes in your home, and bandaid fix leaky ones?
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  #170  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:26 AM
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I think what we need in some of these zones is to open up the season on the other predators. ie COUGARS !!!! Every one consumes a deer a week on average. Can you imagine how many deer are taken by just a handfull of cats in one zone for a year ??? Do the math.......

The scary part is that SRD doesn't have a clue how many cats are in many of these zones.
That's another justified solution, that needs a closer look. Pred control will bounce back deer numbers.
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  #171  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:26 AM
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But you don't have data to dispute it. I don't believe everything say either.
All I ask you to do is this. Consider the following scenario. After the survey info is collected for next years hunting season, it was determined through the online hunter survey that bow hunters are now only taking 5% of the game and rifle hunters are taking 95% of the game. To curb this, SRD is going to take 10% of the rifle tags allotted and either give them to bow hunters, or eliminate them all together because they say that bow hunters already have enough tags to theoretically meet the 15% quota. No information is going to be published for the public to view, they are just going to unilateral make that call. Are you simply going to lie down and accept it without seeing any evidence of such? Or are you going to put up a fight to save those tags?
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  #172  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:39 AM
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Haha, ok. Yes, bowhunters are having a drastic effect on the herds in 232 as evidenced by the press release issued by the ABA. Oh, wait. No they aren't, in fact, bow hunters are taking so few deer in that area that not only is 232 not being considered for a draw, but neither are any of the surrounding zones. You want to save mule deer in the area? Try reducing rifle tags. I know what 232 is like - I used to live in Sedgewick.

My restatement of what you said earlier wasn't an argument at all, it was simply an illustration of how remarkably asinine the comments that you made were. I guess that went over your head though. You are right about one thing - someone does need to get a sense of reality, unfortunately its you.
Youre contradicting your own arguement here fisher. Why do you think so few bow hunters are harvesting animals in 232? Its quit simply
Because there are sonfew animals. There quit literally nothing to shoot. So i ask you again....if you not taking a mule with your bow for a couple seasons, and keeping rifle mule on draw means a few more quality animals a few years down the road is that not in turn a victory for you? Or are you so self entitled you still view it as a rifle only problem? Y not
Just put the opportunity for all weapons on a draw system as part o the management plan along with the other plans to
Manage the resource. Youre a prime example of the guy holding a bow that doesnt feel he is part of problem. Its sad really.
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  #173  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Icefisher2885 View Post
All I ask you to do is this. Consider the following scenario. After the survey info is collected for next years hunting season, it was determined through the online hunter survey that bow hunters are now only taking 5% of the game and rifle hunters are taking 95% of the game. To curb this, SRD is going to take 10% of the rifle tags allotted and either give them to bow hunters, or eliminate them all together because they say that bow hunters already have enough tags to theoretically meet the 15% quota. No information is going to be published for the public to view, they are just going to unilateral make that call. Are you simply going to lie down and accept it without seeing any evidence of such? Or are you going to put up a fight to save those tags?
Depends on the wmu. 358 needs to be closed completely for mule deer. Antlered and antlerless. 5 buck tags issued there but still issuing 200 plus doe tags.

I would support a total mule deer closure in 358 for a few years!
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  #174  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:49 AM
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Depends on the wmu. 358 needs to be closed completely for mule deer. Antlered and antlerless. 5 buck tags issued there but still issuing 200 plus doe tags.

I would support a total mule deer closure in 358 for a few years!
Careful what you ask for.trying to get something reopened is a challenge in its self. Once it's gone , it might be gone for good.
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  #175  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Icefisher2885 View Post
All I ask you to do is this. Consider the following scenario. After the survey info is collected for next years hunting season, it was determined through the online hunter survey that bow hunters are now only taking 5% of the game and rifle hunters are taking 95% of the game. To curb this, SRD is going to take 10% of the rifle tags allotted and either give them to bow hunters, or eliminate them all together because they say that bow hunters already have enough tags to theoretically meet the 15% quota. No information is going to be published for the public to view, they are just going to unilateral make that call. Are you simply going to lie down and accept it without seeing any evidence of such? Or are you going to put up a fight to save those tags?
There not taking them away they are putting them on a draw, rifle hunters are not getting any thing out of this.
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  #176  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:55 AM
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Youre contradicting your own arguement here fisher. Why do you think so few bow hunters are harvesting animals in 232? Its quit simply
Because there are sonfew animals. There quit literally nothing to shoot. So i ask you again....if you not taking a mule with your bow for a couple seasons, and keeping rifle mule on draw means a few more quality animals a few years down the road is that not in turn a victory for you? Or are you so self entitled you still view it as a rifle only problem? Y not
Just put the opportunity for all weapons on a draw system as part o the management plan along with the other plans to
Manage the resource. Youre a prime example of the guy holding a bow that doesnt feel he is part of problem. Its sad really.
Remember ,srd does not care about quality animals in this province, at all. Its not even up for discussion with them.
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  #177  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:57 AM
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Yep i agree. Was speaking more from a personal view
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  #178  
Old 10-14-2012, 11:58 AM
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Careful what you ask for.trying to get something reopened is a challenge in its self. Once it's gone , it might be gone for good.
I hear you there, but with 200 plus antlerless tags issued there.
Plus landowner tags as well, I'm thinking the antlerless mule deer success rate for 358 will be less than 5%.

In 7 days of scouting and 3 days of rifle I would give a generous estimate of 2 living bucks, 3 dead bucks and maybe 5 does/fawns.

It's been the same thing the past 3 seasons but Srd still issues all these tags.
When scouting for elk I cover about 50% of 358.

Pretty sad indeed
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  #179  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:02 PM
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There not taking them away they are putting them on a draw, rifle hunters are not getting any thing out of this.
The rifle only hunter will "feel better" because they won't be so hard done by

They are possibly getting more competition due to larger draw pools....some of the archery guys may not have been putting in for draws.

Much like a friend of mine did for moose. For so many years there was a general archery only season and he never put in for draws and missed out on building priority.

LC
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  #180  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
I hear you there, but with 200 plus antlerless tags issued there.
Plus landowner tags as well, I'm thinking the antlerless mule deer success rate for 358 will be less than 5%.

In 7 days of scouting and 3 days of rifle I would give a generous estimate of 2 living bucks, 3 dead bucks and maybe 5 does/fawns.

It's been the same thing the past 3 seasons but Srd still issues all these tags.
When scouting for elk I cover about 50% of 358.

Pretty sad indeed
So putting bow on draw is not going to help what your seeing. Fighting to reduce antlerless tags, and landowner tags, will get the results your looking for and quicker, than a bow draw.

We hunt that zone too.
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