Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 209x50

In 1981 numbers hit 164527 and then fell to 114208 by 1991.

Big Game???, or all hunting licenses, was it '71 or '81????

[209x50]

The actual number in 1971 was 159934

[hal53]

Originally Posted by 209x50

The actual number in 1971 was 159934

Total licenses??, where are you finding this info????

[Pikebreath]

Wow, this thread appears to be headed for some kind of postings record by the looks of it!

So we all know draw wait times are getting longer but the number of hunters has significantly declined in the past 40 years. This is only possible becuz draw participation has increased at a much higher rate than that the drop in hunter numbers. It becomes pretty obvious the solution is to discourage draw participation.

I know dropping the 999 option has been discussed already and this certainly is one option that would lower overall draw participation. I am in favor of axing the 999.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet,,, but how about basing priority by zone rather than by license? For example you apply twice unsuccessfully for mule buck in 100, you would have a P2 for 100. If you decide to apply for a different zone you enter that draw as a P0.

This would also level the playing field when a new zone is put into the draw such as we see with the new elk seasons popping up through the 100s and 200s.

Eliminating the 999 and basing priority by zone would force applicants to make "serious choices" in their draws rather than manipulating future draw options to their benefit through priority building.

And for the record, I am as guilty as anyone for priority building having used the 999 option many times,,, and prior to the 999 option, applying in zones with little chance of success just to build priority.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Wow, this thread appears to be headed for some kind of postings record by the looks of it!

So we all know draw wait times are getting longer but the number of hunters has significantly declined in the past 40 years. This is only possible becuz draw participation has increased at a much higher rate than that the drop in hunter numbers. It becomes pretty obvious the solution is to discourage draw participation.

I know dropping the 999 option has been discussed already and this certainly is one option that would lower overall draw participation. I am in favor of axing the 999.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet,,, but how about basing priority by zone rather than by license? For example you apply twice unsuccessfully for mule buck in 100, you would have a P2 for 100. If you decide to apply for a different zone you enter that draw as a P0.

This would also level the playing field when a new zone is put into the draw such as we see with the new elk seasons popping up through the 100s and 200s.

Eliminating the 999 and basing priority by zone would force applicants to make "serious choices" in their draws rather than manipulating future draw options to their benefit through priority building.

And for the record, I am as guilty as anyone for priority building having used the 999 option many times,,, and prior to the 999 option applying in zones with little chance of success just to build priority.

so... I can 999 every zone I wish for a draw at $3.00 bucks??, thinking that might increase the draws wait time???,sorry just re-read your thoughts..., I still say, the problem is people shotgun applying and entering their wives , kids and rand parents, and the "pseudo " residents that are applying. A little bit of tightening up on these rules would be a start. ,,, and I am still waiting for 209's answer as to where he is getting his numbers from....don't think I will wait up...they do not make sense

[elkhunter11]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet,,, but how about basing priority by zone rather than by license? For example you apply twice unsuccessfully for mule buck in 100, you would have a P2 for 100. If you decide to apply for a different zone you enter that draw as a P0.

So what happens to your priority points, if they close the season in that particular WMU? Or what happens if they change to a split season in that WMU? Which season do your priority points apply to?

[ceedub]

I'm late wading into this thread, but I do have some recollection of hunting back in the seventies while growing up down in the County of Flagstaff.

You could buy 3 tags from the list of 4 species, WT, MD, Moose or Elk, or....

You could buy 1 any species/any sex tag. If you purchased that tag you couldn't buy any others. This gave you an opportunity to shoot the first animal of any species you ran into and you were done for the season.

I remember hunting more in the seventies, but shooting less. There was a doe season but I think it was a 2 day season in late November, well after buck season had been underway. Seasons weren't nearly as long either, I remember waiting until the 7th or 8th of November for the opener.

There may be less hunters than historical numbers, but with draws, supplemental tags and extended seasons some guys are taking 6 or 7 deer a season. That's the part that gets my blood boiling.

No priority for the few draws that there were. I remember drawing Camp Wainwright many years in a row but couldn't draw a Cypress Hills Elk tag or Antelope tag to save myself. I was for the 999 option when it was first introduced, but in the long run, I think it's reduced the success of everyone overall.

-Craig

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what happens to your priority points, if they close the season in that particular WMU? Or what happens if they change to a split season in that WMU? Which season do your priority points apply to?

If the season closes where you put in your SOL! It's a draw. You take your chances where you put in. If zone 300 elk closes now are my points transferable to another zone? If 437 sheep has a die off and the zone closed are the priority points good for other zones. Not transferable now not transferable later.

If they split the season in a zone you could keep your points into the part of the zone you choose. But then stay with that split.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Wow, this thread appears to be headed for some kind of postings record by the looks of it!

So we all know draw wait times are getting longer but the number of hunters has significantly declined in the past 40 years. This is only possible becuz draw participation has increased at a much higher rate than that the drop in hunter numbers. It becomes pretty obvious the solution is to discourage draw participation.

I know dropping the 999 option has been discussed already and this certainly is one option that would lower overall draw participation. I am in favor of axing the 999.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet,,, but how about basing priority by zone rather than by license? For example you apply twice unsuccessfully for mule buck in 100, you would have a P2 for 100. If you decide to apply for a different zone you enter that draw as a P0.

This would also level the playing field when a new zone is put into the draw such as we see with the new elk seasons popping up through the 100s and 200s.

Eliminating the 999 and basing priority by zone would force applicants to make "serious choices" in their draws rather than manipulating future draw options to their benefit through priority building.

And for the record, I am as guilty as anyone for priority building having used the 999 option many times,,, and prior to the 999 option, applying in zones with little chance of success just to build priority.

IMO, the benefits of 999 far out way any negatives, and I suspect I would never be comfortable with losing that option.

As for building priority by zone rather than licence, and then losing all priority if you change zones....................sigh. There are too many things that can change in life, beyond a persons control that could force them to a zone other than the one they originally intended. Losing priority because you were forced to move for example, is not reasonable grounds to lose all of your priority.

[elkhunter11]

If they split the season in a zone you could keep your points into the part of the zone you choose.

Do you really think that it would make sense to have to contact every person with priority if they split the seasons, or even split a wmu for the purpose of a hunt? Given that hundreds of people could be involved,I really don't see that happening. It makes much more sense to use the draw code for establishing priority.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Do you really think that it would make sense to have to contact every person with priority if they split the seasons, or even split a wmu for the purpose of a hunt? Given that hundreds of people could be involved,I really don't see that happening. It makes much more sense to use the draw code for establishing priority.

Why contact everyone?? The split would have to be noted in he new draw book so people know of the change. Right there in the draw book could state your previous priorities are good for either part A or part B.
Do they call everyone now if there is a change in zones or draws??

[Pikebreath]

You are currently allowed to apply in up to three zones,,,, Perhaps that would not have to change and you can build priority in up to 3 zones. If you are unsuccessful you would have bumped your priority in 3 zones. Then if one zone closes you still have priority in 2 other zones. Once drawn, you start as P0 in all zones.

At any rate, eliminating the 999 and building priority by zone would force applicants to be far more "serious" in their draw applications.

Additionally, it would be much easier predicting when you would be drawn in a zone. You would know the size of the priority pool you are in and have a much better idea of how many applicants are ahead of you.

[elkhunter11]

Do they call everyone now if there is a change in zones or draws??

So just how many draw or zone changes have been made that resulted in a person's priority points being reduced to zero? Having priority points based on the draw code, has prevented this from happening.

[sheepguide]

Towards Pikebreath's comment,

Could deffinatly help guys just jumping into zones that are producing. They have to choose a zone or zones and dedicate themselves to them. I only ever put in one choice and do my homework on that zone prior so I know what I'm getting into and would be more than happy to commit to minimal numbers of zoned or even just one.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So just how many draw or zone changes have been made that resulted in a person's priority points being reduced to zero? Having priority points based on the draw code, has prevented this from happening.

Never said anyone had lost points. Just commented that there was no need to contact anyone as you stated would be needed. Every year changes happen and Draws are added. These changes are made without calling anyone. So why do you think they would have to if a zone was split??

And there are draw codes that are one zone. So how are these protected?? Anyway them season could be taken out and those that have applied will loose their points. It's how the cookie crumbles. People need to get the entitlement to points a cheap draws out of your heads. Right now cheap draws are a privilege not a right. Hunting is a privilege not a right but few see it that way. To many want what they feel us their right. Sorry boys it ain't your right!!!

[super7mag]

Well there's been a minscule of posters compared to draw applicants and we can't agree on a plan or a concept. 100 % or even 95%. Going to be a tough sell thru out the province then.

We have concluded:

Tighter guidelines , restrictions, and ID for new WIN Apps.
A crack down on fraudulent win cards and apps.
Maybe an adjustment to application fees dependent on species and sex
A close review of NR draw #'s and results to see if residents are being short
Changed. ( not sure about this)

Is that agreeable yet by a majority here or have we more debate to do ?
I know it's just a tip of the ice berg.

[sakogreywolf]

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by hal53

so... I can 999 every zone I wish for a draw at $3.00 bucks??, thinking that might increase the draws wait time???,sorry just re-read your thoughts..., I still say, the problem is people shotgun applying and entering their wives , kids and rand parents, and the "pseudo " residents that are applying. A little bit of tightening up on these rules would be a start. ,,, and I am still waiting for 209's answer as to where he is getting his numbers from....don't think I will wait up...they do not make sense

You forgot pets and other people's children ( use them if they've ever spent the night... trial adoption didnt pan out)

[pottymouth]

Bison and 438 bighorn sheep , along with any other current or future lottery tag, should be a once in a lifetime tag/draw... Retroactive to disclude anyone that has previously drawn, since the inception of that draw.

[209x50]

I like the idea that people should have to buy a wildlife certificate before entering a draw. The rest of the ideas are largely elitist and discriminating.
Just my opinion.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I like the idea that people should have to buy a wildlife certificate before entering a draw. The rest of the ideas are largely elitist and discriminating.
Just my opinion.

So you are all for and condone the use of multiple WIN #'s ?

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

So you are all for and condone the use of multiple WIN #'s ?

[bloody arrow]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Yep I have 2 buddies south of the hat that get landowner tags for mule deer every year.

landowner tags, I don't see a lot about these here, should we still have these tags, if you remove these "privileges", would that help on the draws numbers for other residents? why should you have tags every year just because you have lands? when the rest of us have to wait to get a draw tag....?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

landowner tags, I don't see a lot about these here, should we still have these tags, if you remove these "privileges", would that help on the draws numbers for other residents? why should you have tags every year just because you have lands? when the rest of us have to wait to get a draw tag....?

I am fine with landowner tags as they feed wildlife at a cost to them but the tags should be for antlerless/nontrophy only.

LC

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

landowner tags, I don't see a lot about these here, should we still have these tags, if you remove these "privileges", would that help on the draws numbers for other residents? why should you have tags every year just because you have lands? when the rest of us have to wait to get a draw tag....?

Wouldn't change draw numbers at all by removing landowner tags as they must be in the draw in order to get landowner tags. Would decrease tag numbers issued though that could possible be added back into the draw.

But if landowners loose this right are they gunna be ****ed off and not alow access?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I am fine with landowner tags as they feed wildlife at a cost to them but the tags should be for antlerless/nontrophy only.

LC

Good idea.