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  #91  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:37 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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My biggest problem is where would all this money go? To our wildlife or to to donate more tax money that gets wasted .
I am not in favor of increasing the tag prices. just in making sure that people actually purchase them if they are drawn. As is it is, people are drawing tags, then not purchasing them at all. If money is as tight as you claim, then you wouldn't apply, and commit that money, unless you intend to actually hunt if you are drawn.


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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Does he pay the property taxes where that deer happens to live? Does he lose income when that deer eats his hay bales, eats the crop or craps in the swath (deer droppings in the sample can cause significant down grading even to the point of rejection of the load) And for those who think otherwise, wildlife damage compensation from deer is very hard to collect!!!

My point is you can take this resident thing even further and consider the local who lives and works in the zone in question year round,,, and is then expected to allow equal access to a bunch of nameless / faceless strangers doing the Rambo thing through his fields and pastures to hunt the deer he has fed all year round with out any recompense whatsoever.

I have taken advantage of the landowner tag on three different occasions and killed one deer. If you think my 3 tags in 15 years to hunt mule deer on my own land is causing resident hunters significant hardship, then imagine the hardship done by the posting of my land to no hunting of whitetails, mules, moose, elk, geese, ducks. grouse, huns, coyotes, etc will cause the resident hunter!!!

It is all about respect,,, we as landowners cannot charge for hunting access yet we are expected to provide room and board for the "queen's game". The ability to take advantage of the odd landowner tag at least shows some respect from the "queen".
You can live in the wmu without being a farmer or rancher, and without being affected by the game, so simply having your legal address in a certain wmu. should not give you any priority in that wmu.
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  #92  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Helping out on the farm to gain favour for hunting access is really no different than paying for access. Between the two, I'd rather the take the money,,,, but I know that none of that is gonna happen.

What I (and most every other landowner that makes their living off the land) really want is respect for being habitat stewards and the access and opportunity we provide. Strangely enough, the hunters I know who show this respect always seem to find places to hunt, but those who don't have problems.
I agree with that. I will disagree with paying for access . I help out one of our buddies even though nobody is aloud to hunt his land. It is called being a friend and it is what helps out all the animLs around his land . We have actually plants trees and shrubs to help out the deer and all of the game birds . Helping people out is nothing more than being a good person in today's world . People just forget how things use to be here before the boom Nd every person from around d the world moving here .
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  #93  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I am not in favor of increasing the tag prices. just in making sure that people actually purchase them if they are drawn. As is it is, people are drawing tags, then not purchasing them at all. If money is as tight as you claim, then you wouldn't apply, and commit that money, unless you intend to actually hunt if you are drawn.
Things are not that tight but will be very soon for a lot of people in this province/country . So taking this avanue is wrong but I do agree that people wasting tbs is wrong. According to sed they a lot for this and add tags to the draw system for the most part.


You can live in the wmu without being a farmer or rancher, and without being affected by the game, so simply having your legal address in a certain wmu. should not give you any priority in that wmu.
agreed
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  #94  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:57 PM
huntwat huntwat is offline
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Well this turned into something other than outfitter tags didn't it??
I see lots of good ideas on here.
Since the time is now to contact ESRD, please do. ( They will direct you to the proper people).
My list is going to be:
1. NO tags for non-res for any species that is on a draw.
2. NO Antlered landowner tags.
3. Throw out the 10% outfitter tags as it will not be needed.
4. Add Sunday hunting to wmu 100's
5. Minimum 223 for deer size or smaller game.
6. Charge for tags as soon as they are drawn.

Arguing on here does nothing. CONTACT ESRD Now.

Last edited by huntwat; 01-03-2016 at 09:05 PM.
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  #95  
Old 01-03-2016, 08:58 PM
deerguy deerguy is offline
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Why Sunday hunting and why lower caliber restrictions??
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  #96  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:02 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
Why Sunday hunting and why lower caliber restrictions??
Why not Sunday hunting?
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  #97  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
Why Sunday hunting and why lower caliber restrictions??
100's are the only zones that don't have Sunday hunting. When they opened the rest of the province up to Sunday hunting they added one day (Wednesday) to the season. Didn't help the mon- fri. employees.

I believe a few other provinces allow the 223 minimum, seems to work.
A 223 in the lungs is much better than a 338 in the guts.
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  #98  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Why not Sunday hunting?
Gives the animals more of a break. We don't need full 24/7 hunting on the praries
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  #99  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
Gives the animals more of a break. We don't need full 24/7 hunting on the praries
They have sun- wed off now. Take wed away and add sun.
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  #100  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
100's are the only zones that don't have Sunday hunting. When they opened the rest of the province up yo Sunday hunting they added one day (Wednesday) to the season. Didn't help the mon- fri. employees.

I believe a few other provinces allow the 223 minimum, seems to work.
A 223 in the lungs is much better than a 338 in the guts.
We can't get people to make ethical kill shots on animals now with the current restrictions, we certainly don't need guys going to even smaller rounds to "save the meat" and just wind up wounding animals due to lacklustre range time.

The .243 or bigger is fine as is.
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  #101  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
By looking at the link I posted, 95% of Land owner Mule deer tags were Antlered with Antlerless being an option that they passed on. If landowners want tags they should be Antlerless with antlered tags either being OTC or draw.
You seem to forget that that landowners are residents as well, and like it or not, they do have a much bigger vested interest (and opportunity cost) in habitat stewardship that non landowning residents do not have. The only antlered tag a landowner can get is for mule deer, that is the only real "thank you" we get from our govt. to provide habitat.

Bull moose with their penchant to spend weeks living in my canola and pea crops probably do far more damage on my farm than any other critter. Could make a pretty strong argument for landowner antlered moose tags!

Thanks for the link BTW,,, confirms that less than 10% of the resident antlered mule deer tags were landowner tags.
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  #102  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
We can't get people to make ethical kill shots on animals now with the current restrictions, we certainly don't need guys going to even smaller rounds to "save the meat" and just wind up wounding animals due to lacklustre range time.

The .243 or bigger is fine as is.
Most people are more accurate with smaller caliber guns.
Why is a 243 fine and not a 223?
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  #103  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
They have sun- wed off now. Take wed away and add sun.
Did you mail esrd or Shannon Philips?
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  #104  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
You seem to forget that that landowners are residents as well, and like it or not, they do have a much bigger vested interest (and opportunity cost) in habitat stewardship that non landowning residents do not have. The only antlered tag a landowner can get is for mule deer, that is the only real "thank you" we get from our govt. to provide habitat.

Bull moose with their penchant to spend weeks living in my canola and pea crops probably do far more damage on my farm than any other critter. Could make a pretty strong argument for landowner antlered moose tags!

Thanks for the link BTW,,, confirms that less than 10% of the resident antlered mule deer tags were landowner tags.
The landowner tags are there so they can shoot problem deer, not trophy hunt. You could essentially grow 180" mule deer every year and never need a draw tag.
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  #105  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
Did you mail esrd or Shannon Philips?
I started emailing ESRD way before Shannon Phillips was voted in. Once she was voted in I emailed her, she sent my email on to ESRD, Have you emailed anyone?
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  #106  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
I started emailing ESRD way before Shannon Phillips was voted in. Once she was voted in I emailed her, she sent my email on to ESRD, Have you emailed anyone?
I emailed ESRD a few days ago, got an automated message that they are out till the 4th. I send most of my gripe to the ABA. lol
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  #107  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:12 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Things are not that tight but will be very soon for a lot of people in this province/country . So taking this avanue is wrong but I do agree that people wasting tbs is wrong.
\

It makes no sense to apply for tags that you have no intention of using, it just keeps people that really want the tag from drawing it. If you are drawn, you should pay, if you don't want to pay, then the obvious solution is to not apply.

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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
Gives the animals more of a break. We don't need full 24/7 hunting on the praries
So why do the animals need Sunday off, why can't it be another weekday? It's not as though animals can tell a Sunday from a weekday.
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  #108  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by deerguy View Post
The landowner tags are there so they can shoot problem deer, not trophy hunt. You could essentially grow 180" mule deer every year and never need a draw tag.
One other idea I have for landowner tags, if they still have them after this new policy is. Don't allow a free for all for landowners. Once they put in for the draw give them twice the priority points. I could live with that.
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  #109  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
I agree that a lot of people would not be able to pay upfront for draws they might be awarded, esp. if you get 1 or 2 that you were not expecting (but hopeing) to get.
I know that I stagger buying my licences and tags as the season progresses.
I'm glad that some of you guys are not in charge of home buying, or even new truck buying. "Can't afford to pay in full upfront? You obviously can't afford it".
Something else to consider is that a lot of draws are for seasons that could be months away. If something were to occur in a persons life that would prevent him from hunting that draw, then not only is he out his priorty points, but also the money he paid up front.
The point of paying for the tag upfront is that people would plan better...enter the draw for $3 and then you get picked but can't go, you are on the hook for $3 and the opportunity is gone. Consider you have to pay upfront, you will consider more what is realistic for you to pursue. Plan better and go after the draws you have the best chance at and 999 the others.

The whole idea is if you get drawn you go on the hunt right?

Lots of tags are wasted thus the opportunity is not available to others....some of the Wainwright deer tags have less than 50% participation! Thats a real shame when you have guys who would gladly go if they were drawn.

LC
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  #110  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
Well this turned into something other than outfitter tags didn't it??
I see lots of good ideas on here.
Since the time is now to contact ESRD, please do. ( They will direct you to the proper people).
My list is going to be:
1. NO tags for non-res for any species that is on a draw.
2. NO Antlered landowner tags.
3. Throw out the 10% outfitter tags as it will not be needed.
4. Add Sunday hunting to wmu 100's
5. Minimum 223 for deer size or smaller game.
6. Charge for tags as soon as they are drawn.

Arguing on here does nothing. CONTACT ESRD Now.
So which of those 6 points that you listed would you say were worth forewarding to AEP? (thats the old ESRD). I agree with 2 of them.
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  #111  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:16 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
So which of those 6 points that you listed would you say were worth forewarding to AEP? (thats the old ESRD). I agree with 2 of them.
I agree with five of them.
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  #112  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by waterninja View Post
So which of those 6 points that you listed would you say were worth forewarding to AEP? (thats the old ESRD). I agree with 2 of them.
All of them.
You don't have to agree with them. Its my list. Please send your own.
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  #113  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:19 PM
huntwat huntwat is offline
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I know a lot won't agree with the 223 minimum.
Why is a 243 good enough for a moose, but a 223 is not good enough for a deer or antelope?
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  #114  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
I know a lot won't agree with the 223 minimum.
Why is a 243 good enough for a moose, but a 223 is not good enough for a deer or antelope?
.223 works in other places...a .25-20 is legal so is a 9mm pistol cartridge, I would rather use a .22-250 than either of those two.

LC
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  #115  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
Well this turned into something other than outfitter tags didn't it??
I see lots of good ideas on here.
Since the time is now to contact ESRD, please do. ( They will direct you to the proper people).
My list is going to be:
1. NO tags for non-res for any species that is on a draw.
2. NO Antlered landowner tags.
3. Throw out the 10% outfitter tags as it will not be needed.
4. Add Sunday hunting to wmu 100's
5. Minimum 223 for deer size or smaller game.
6. Charge for tags as soon as they are drawn.

Arguing on here does nothing. CONTACT ESRD Now.
So number 1 being at the top of your list I'll ask you a question about that one. So if you took away all the moose, mule deer, elk, antelope from the outfitters what would we do with species that aren't on draw.

Increase Whitetail to 400-500 allocations per zone where 5000 residents currently hunt ?

Elk to a couple hundred allocations where it's currently over the counter

What about sheep, non draw zones bumped up to 30-40 allocations ?

Bears ? Some outfitter areas in Saskatchewan are only 4 townships and have 30 bear allocations. That means almost all of the WMUs in the 300's and 500's should have 500+ allocations per WMU.

Are you good with shifting the pressure onto other animals to reduce the draw times by 6-10% possibly ?

Or do you want everything else to stay the same, just change for your benefit ?
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  #116  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:34 PM
waterninja waterninja is offline
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
The point of paying for the tag upfront is that people would plan better...enter the draw for $3 and then you get picked but can't go, you are on the hook for $3 and the opportunity is gone. Consider you have to pay upfront, you will consider more what is realistic for you to pursue. Plan better and go after the draws you have the best chance at and 999 the others.

The whole idea is if you get drawn you go on the hunt right?

Lots of tags are wasted thus the opportunity is not available to others....some of the Wainwright deer tags have less than 50% participation! Thats a real shame when you have guys who would gladly go if they were drawn.

LC
I can see your point, but it is a little shortsighted. Yes I'm sure some draws are wasted every year for one reason or another, but those people have to now start building thier priorties from scratch again and are no longer able to draw that tag for years. Also, there is the chance that one less animal was harvested that can reproduce or grow larger. Win-win for the people who didn't get drawn last time and now have a higher priority the following year.
You list planning as a priority, but sometimes you have to look past the short term and plan for season/s ahead.
Bottom line is that I don't like paying all the money upfront for a drawn tag that I won't be hunting for till 3-6 months in the future. But thats just me, and I would bet that I'm not the only one.
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  #117  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:36 PM
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I would highly doubt that non- res #'s would stay the same. I will use antlered moose as an example. The non-res that come on your allocation, I will assume come because of # of animals, size and hunting pressure. That would change if they had to go to general season WMU's. I don't believe Trophy sheep tags are available in any of the zones that require draw right now. I may be wrong.


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Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
So number 1 being at the top of your list I'll ask you a question about that one. So if you took away all the moose, mule deer, elk, antelope from the outfitters what would we do with species that aren't on draw.

Increase Whitetail to 400-500 allocations per zone where 5000 residents currently hunt ?

Elk to a couple hundred allocations where it's currently over the counter

What about sheep, non draw zones bumped up to 30-40 allocations ?

Bears ? Some outfitter areas in Saskatchewan are only 4 townships and have 30 bear allocations. That means almost all of the WMUs in the 300's and 500's should have 500+ allocations per WMU.

Are you good with shifting the pressure onto other animals to reduce the draw times by 6-10% possibly ?

Or do you want everything else to stay the same, just change for your benefit ?
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  #118  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:38 PM
deerguy deerguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
So number 1 being at the top of your list I'll ask you a question about that one. So if you took away all the moose, mule deer, elk, antelope from the outfitters what would we do with species that aren't on draw.

Increase Whitetail to 400-500 allocations per zone where 5000 residents currently hunt ?

Elk to a couple hundred allocations where it's currently over the counter

What about sheep, non draw zones bumped up to 30-40 allocations ?

Bears ? Some outfitter areas in Saskatchewan are only 4 townships and have 30 bear allocations. That means almost all of the WMUs in the 300's and 500's should have 500+ allocations per WMU.

Are you good with shifting the pressure onto other animals to reduce the draw times by 6-10% possibly ?

Or do you want everything else to stay the same, just change for your benefit ?
Could the trophy quality handle that many new allocations? Most outfitters but a 130 minimum on their deer harvest.

And why would outfitters get more? They would still be held to their 10% maximum, just now it would be for non draw species.
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  #119  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by huntwat View Post
All of them.
You don't have to agree with them. Its my list. Please send your own.
Opps my error. I thought you were trying to get more people involved in contacting AEP then just yourself.
So you figure if everyone sends in thier own list of things they want changed that would be more effective? Personally I don't think that would work.
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  #120  
Old 01-03-2016, 09:42 PM
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Opps my error. I thought you were trying to get more people involved in contacting AEP then just yourself.
So you figure if everyone sends in thier own list of things they want changed that would be more effective? Personally I don't think that would work.
More people involved the better. But I'm not trying to tell anyone what their concerns should be, I just listed mine.
What do you think will work? Discussing it on an Outdoor forum?
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