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  #61  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:21 PM
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Has anyone on this thread studied pre-confederation history? Does anyone know what the English (our ancestors) did to the natives of their own country? Well it was our ancestors and ourselves to blame for the social and finanicial problems that the aboriginals had, and have. I'm not going to give a history lessen here but let me say the aboriginals deserve everything that was given to them, and I hope the hell it last's another 500 years. Women, men and children were raped, murdered and their houses burned down. Disease like influeneza, small pocks and such were brought over from the Atlantic where thousands of natives died. This whet on for hundreds of years and recently court cases were settled because of sexual abuse in Catholic schools that were operated by the church and government. What I just mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. Today we live in a overpopulated country, polluted and half destroyed by us, the "White Man". While the Aboriginals are scattered all over this country on reservations some can sit back and say like this "bone head" (caper 28) that the natives are taking all of our salmon. The natives lived in harmony with nature, with other aboriginal nations, and when the French arrived, in harmony with them, hence the conception of the Metis. Yes Caper 28 you are a bigot and some others on this thread!

3/4 of the people that post in this thread have no clue about native history and how the treaties came about , they only see the present situation ,but really don't have a clue.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:22 PM
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I think the thread had been going well and a lot of good information is being posted where we can see other's point of view etc. Learn a little, try to be open minded and maybe even come up with some viable solutions to problems that keep surfacing. I do not want to see the thread closed or anybody else to be banned.
Flint you have some great input in many areas with a lot of expierience in many facets of outdoor pursuit. I am not saying anything to personally offend you but..... calling others on here bigots or any other names is totally un called for and does nothing constructive for the rest of us. The history of the treaties is important as we need to understand the past to protect the future. Everybody's expierience with the past is part of the problem/solution for the future.
Play nice.
  #63  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by flint View Post
Has anyone on this thread studied pre-confederation history? Does anyone know what the English (our ancestors) did to the natives of their own country? Well it was our ancestors and ourselves to blame for the social and finanicial problems that the aboriginals had, and have. I'm not going to give a history lessen here but let me say the aboriginals deserve everything that was given to them, and I hope the hell it last's another 500 years. Women, men and children were raped, murdered and their houses burned down. Disease like influeneza, small pocks and such were brought over from the Atlantic where thousands of natives died. This whet on for hundreds of years and recently court cases were settled because of sexual abuse in Catholic schools that were operated by the church and government. What I just mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. Today we live in a overpopulated country, polluted and half destroyed by us, the "White Man". While the Aboriginals are scattered all over this country on reservations some can sit back and say like this "bone head" (caper 28) that the natives are taking all of our salmon. The natives lived in harmony with nature, with other aboriginal nations, and when the French arrived, in harmony with them, hence the conception of the Metis. Yes Caper 28 you are a bigot and some others on this thread!
That was 200 years ago. How does it affect them to date? They didn't even know their ancestors.
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  #64  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lannie View Post
I think the thread had been going well and a lot of good information is being posted where we can see other's point of view etc. Learn a little, try to be open minded and maybe even come up with some viable solutions to problems that keep surfacing. I do not want to see the thread closed or anybody else to be banned.
Flint you have some great input in many areas with a lot of expierience in many facets of outdoor pursuit. I am not saying anything to personally offend you but..... calling others on here bigots or any other names is totally un called for and does nothing constructive for the rest of us. The history of the treaties is important as we need to understand the past to protect the future. Everybody's expierience with the past is part of the problem/solution for the future.
Play nice.
I totally agree. this thread has been going pretty good. But when people like Flint start falsely accusing people the thread de-rails in a hurry. No one is being racist just throwing out ideas. IMO the treatys have their purpose to an extent. But like all things change so should the treaty's. A lot has changed since they were signed and should be reviewed. I agree with their ability to hunt for their own sustinence but there should be limitations. Back when there were not any laws around hunting the white man just about whiped out most of the wild game. Thus, conservation groups were born. As things have changed so has our laws. We are continually evolving which is the human way. It is the selfish actions of a few (poachers) that give us a bad name. Same as with the natives. A vast majority will respect the land but the ones who abuse the system give the rest a bad name. I think that with the political correctness of todays society there is not a politician that will stick his/her neck out to solve the problem. IMHO the change must come from within the reserves. Those that respect nature must step up and reckognize the need to evolve their practices. until that happens, it will be a mud slinging fest between both sides.
  #65  
Old 06-27-2010, 01:09 PM
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Not only the white man killed,raped and burned,the natives committed the same atrocities.Regardless of how the natives were treated in the past,it does not change the fact that legislated racism is wrong in today's society.I wish that I could truthfully say that I lived in a country where every man,woman and child was equal under the law,but in Canada,that simply isn't the case.As great as Canada is,we still have backwards racist laws,that prevent us from being an even greater country.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:21 PM
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I guess I'm a bigot, I've been called a lot worse on the interweb. Don't really care to tell you the truth. History is just that, history, and we need to work towards tomorrow to save out fish and wild life.
  #67  
Old 06-27-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default It is not legislated racism

Flint only touched on a few points on how the natives were treated. They were the keepers of the land for perhaps thousands of years and lived in harmony with nature only taking what they needed as nature provided.
The treaty rights for hunting and fishing were granted by representatives of the "whites" and for the most part they were promised "the sky" for the people making the promises were certain they would never have to live up to the letter of the law as "assimilation" and even "genocide" would by and large eliiminate the need to fulfill the promises. You could lose status and thus not qualify for treaty rights by converting to Christianity (the Jesuits looked afte that one as well as marryiing "white". Many lost status serving in the world Wars for you could not enlist and keep status. It is largely incorrect to state that natives also raped, burned and killed for they for the most part learned this from the original settlers of the land who the natives offered to share with (not be enslaved). whites invented scalping, and thought it was such a joke for native women to complain about rape (nes squaw = no sex) that they named native women "squaws". (sex)

then look at the early settlersdistributing chicken pox infected blankets to the newly established "reservations" and you have a very small idea of how this "genocide" was planned so promised rights from the Great Father (King) would never be claimed. thousands of years living on and from the land compared to a few hundred years of destroying it with ever expanding range requirements? Whose rights need reining in?????
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:37 PM
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It is not legislated racism
You had best look up the definition of racism.Any law which gives more rights to one race,is by definition,"legislated racism".

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It is largely incorrect to state that natives also raped, burned and killed for they for the most part learned this from the original settlers
Who they learned it from,doesn't change the fact that they raped,burned and killed other races.And the tribes did engage in war with other tribes,killing each others member,before the white man even arrived on this continent.

Have you ever read the terms of some of the treaties?I have read several,including treaties three,five and eight.I for one would like to see Canada follow the terms of those treaties to the letter.By the way,there was a clause in several of those treaties that allowed for Canada to regulate hunting and fishing by aboriginals,so the government could regulate their hunting without violating the terms of most of the treaties.

Last edited by elkhunter11; 06-27-2010 at 01:53 PM.
  #69  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Not only the white man killed,raped and burned,the natives committed the same atrocities.Regardless of how the natives were treated in the past,it does not change the fact that legislated racism is wrong in today's society.I wish that I could truthfully say that I lived in a country where every man,woman and child was equal under the law,but in Canada,that simply isn't the case.As great as Canada is,we still have backwards racist laws,that prevent us from being an even greater country.
There are hundreds of laws enacted in Canada where it favours one and not others. Let's start with Martin's Annual Criminal Code of Canada. Why is there a more severe punishment to murdering a Peace Officer then it is to murder a commoner? Is a Peace Officer's life more valuable than your's or mine? Why can't I use a crossbow for hunting during the archery season, but the other guy can because of an injury. He can shoot from his vehicle because he can't walk. I don't have to wear a seat belt because I'm pregnant. The list go's on and on. I know that these are exceptions, but are they equal to others? There are no laws in any country that treats every person equally. None! Furthermore, if every person was treated equally by law it dosen't necessary mean that it will be practiced. In otherwords, laws are broken. Laws are not racist, only some favor special groups or minorities. Regardless, at the end of the day the Aboriginals will receive the shorter end of the stick because some great white hunter thinks that hunting is his right and not our natives.
  #70  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:09 PM
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There are hundreds of laws enacted in Canada where it favours one and not others. Let's start with Martin's Annual Criminal Code of Canada. Why is there a more severe punishment to murdering a Peace Officer then it is to murder a commoner? Is a Peace Officer's life more valuable than your's or mine? Why can't I use a crossbow for hunting during the archery season, but the other guy can because of an injury. He can shoot from his vehicle because he can't walk. I don't have to wear a seat belt because I'm pregnant. The list go's on and on. I know that these are exceptions, but are they equal to others? There are no laws in any country that treats every person equally. None! Furthermore, if every person was treated equally by law it dosen't necessary mean that it will be practiced. In otherwords, laws are broken. Laws are not racist, only some favor special groups or minorities. Regardless, at the end of the day the Aboriginals will receive the shorter end of the stick because some great white hunter thinks that hunting is his right and not our natives.
To be honest, I have not heard of any of these laws except the crossbow one. even then it is tough to get the proper permit. The MAJOR difference is these laws are there for a damn good reason. They are based on a case by case basis and not a general law due to nothing other than race. And a pregnant lady not wearing her seatbelt effects everyone else how?????? Does seeing that make you crash?? whats your point???
  #71  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:15 PM
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Default counting coup

Not all but many battles were determined by gaining an advantage over an adversary and it was not necessary to kill to win. Counting coup is based on pride of winning the battle without killing the opponent. Like many creatures in the animal world natives recognized survival of the species necessitated non lethal battles much the same as the rest of the animals kingdom where holding an advantage the dominant animal gives way when the opponent goes to submissive posture.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree for I do not feel legislation that corrects past injustices is racism for it was racism that caused the legislation to be passed to correct the white is right attitude prevalent for many years.
Treaties that contain provisions to restrict hunting and fishing rights have not been acted upon because for the most part populations can sustain a harvest.
Wonder how much the east coast fishery was affected by the animal rights groups boycotting seal products and killing the seal harvest or Japanese factory fishing ships but a native substenance fishing with a pitch fork will get the blame.
  #72  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:28 PM
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There are hundreds of laws enacted in Canada where it favours one and not others. Let's start with Martin's Annual Criminal Code of Canada. Why is there a more severe punishment to murdering a Peace Officer then it is to murder a commoner? Is a Peace Officer's life more valuable than your's or mine? Why can't I use a crossbow for hunting during the archery season, but the other guy can because of an injury. He can shoot from his vehicle because he can't walk. I don't have to wear a seat belt because I'm pregnant.
Not one of those examples shows a law that favors one race over another.

Quote:
Laws are not racist, only some favor special groups or minorities.
Laws are racist if they favor one race over another,based specifically on race,as do several Canadian laws.

Quote:
Not all but many battles were determined by gaining an advantage over an adversary and it was not necessary to kill to win. Counting coup is based on pride of winning the battle without killing the opponent.
Are you expecting us to believe that natives never killed their enemies before the white man arrived?Do you really think that we are that naive?Try posting something a little bit more believable next time.

Quote:
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree for I do not feel legislation that corrects past injustices is racism for it was racism that caused the legislation to be passed to correct the white is right attitude prevalent for many years.
It doesn't matter how you try to justify our racist laws,by definition,they are still racist,as long as they give one race more rights than another race.
  #73  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:48 PM
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This is just my opinion, but I think the Natives are very fortunate to have what they have. I haven't done extensive research, but i don't know of another country other than Canada, and the U.S where this is going on. If you were taken over , sort of speaking by another race, you didn't have exceptions, you counted your lucky stars you weren't wiped out, thus you began living like the conqueror.

I think that if some Groups are going to abuse the systems our goverment has created for them, OR any other special interest group in Canada, their privilages should be revoked.No different than any other profession that doesn't keep current on schooling, training or hours.Let the ones using their special exceptions continue too , only if it's for the better of Canada and society, there are grateful people out there too!.
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  #74  
Old 06-27-2010, 04:14 PM
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Non-Natives, are just Jelous that they dont have the hunting& Fishing, privlages that our aboriginal people do.

I know that if I was Native i'd hunt 8 months of the year for Trophy animals,and I'd Eat the Meat aswell!!!

I know some Natives from Saskatchewan that live in a reserve that border's our hunting area,and these two brothers have shot 7 whitetail bucks over 190".and 5 out of the seven where shot in the hunting season.but even if they were'nt it does'nt matter because it's there RIGHT to hunt year round!!!
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
Non-Natives, are just Jelous that they dont have the hunting& Fishing, privlages that our aboriginal people do.

I know that if I was Native i'd hunt 8 months of the year for Trophy animals,and I'd Eat the Meat aswell!!!

I know some Natives from Saskatchewan that live in a reserve that border's our hunting area,and these two brothers have shot 7 whitetail bucks over 190".and 5 out of the seven where shot in the hunting season.but even if they were'nt it does'nt matter because it's there RIGHT to hunt year round!!!
Who decided this????

I dont care if Natives dont have to pay for there tags but in order to properly manage are Wildlife populations they should have to follow the same seasons as non native people do and have the same bag limits.


Sustenance hunting is a crock of S**T because from what I can see the Bands have more money then most people I know.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:34 PM
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When I see Metis subsistence fishermen climb into their 185 with floats and head out to their favorite lake(walleyes knows who I mean), and see other subsistence fishermen who own a trucking company situated in more than one place, that is worth in excess of $60 million, and subsistence fishing at Touchwood, I have a huge problem(walleyes knows him as well). Was there a fish fry at the Ponoka Stampede?
  #77  
Old 06-27-2010, 04:41 PM
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Who decided this????

I dont care if Natives dont have to pay for there tags but in order to properly manage are Wildlife populations they should have to follow the same seasons as non native people do and have the same bag limits.


Sustenance hunting is a crock of S**T because from what I can see the Bands have more money then most people I know.
I would also like to know who decided that...???

I don't mind paying for tags, I have something called a job. I don't want to hunt for free, I want everyone to pay so it's equal. Guess that makes me racist.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
Non-Natives, are just Jelous that they dont have the hunting& Fishing, privlages that our aboriginal people do.

I know that if I was Native i'd hunt 8 months of the year for Trophy animals,and I'd Eat the Meat aswell!!!

I know some Natives from Saskatchewan that live in a reserve that border's our hunting area,and these two brothers have shot 7 whitetail bucks over 190".and 5 out of the seven where shot in the hunting season.but even if they were'nt it does'nt matter because it's there RIGHT to hunt year round!!!
And that's the problem right there,that's what some are doing. If they continue to do things like that, how long before, draws times double, certain species are threatened and trophy mature bucks are non existant in zones. I think you would be the first to throw a fit if they all came down there and wiped out all the trophy whitetails, year round. Would you still be pumped for 110 class buck!!

What's the point to have rules to preserve our wildlife, when there are groups who are exempt and can effect the outcome for the rest of Alberta.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:02 PM
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Has anyone on this thread studied pre-confederation history? Does anyone know what the English (our ancestors) did to the natives of their own country? Well it was our ancestors and ourselves to blame for the social and finanicial problems that the aboriginals had, and have. I'm not going to give a history lessen here but let me say the aboriginals deserve everything that was given to them, and I hope the hell it last's another 500 years. Women, men and children were raped, murdered and their houses burned down. Disease like influeneza, small pocks and such were brought over from the Atlantic where thousands of natives died. This whet on for hundreds of years and recently court cases were settled because of sexual abuse in Catholic schools that were operated by the church and government. What I just mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. Today we live in a overpopulated country, polluted and half destroyed by us, the "White Man". While the Aboriginals are scattered all over this country on reservations some can sit back and say like this "bone head" (caper 28) that the natives are taking all of our salmon. The natives lived in harmony with nature, with other aboriginal nations, and when the French arrived, in harmony with them, hence the conception of the Metis. Yes Caper 28 you are a bigot and some others on this thread!
Wow some real historical innacuracies there.

Lot of those "History on Film" movies that you have been watching are just that movies not historical fact.

Just to show where your reasoning is flawed would be for me to counterpoint your argument by saying natives were allied with the english in the film "Last of the Mohicans"

Gotta go me and Shwanky have to go worship satan

Great way to wreck a thread.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:09 PM
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One interesting thing I found this winter was in Mexico. The wife and I did a tour of a mayan village. Mayans in mexico are the equivalent to our natives. These mayans for the most part still live totally off the land and recieve absolutely nothing as far as tax breaks and money from the government. These people were poor but very happy. The tour guide who was also a Mayan was very insistant in none of the tourists giving the people any money. They know what it will lead too. The children make little trinkits you can buy but that is about it. I found it quite interesting how they live versus our reserves. I asked the tour guide about any issues with drug and alcohol abuse in the villages. He looked at me kind of weird and said absolutely not. As far as I could tell the only differences between them and our natives was government exemptions and handouts.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:19 PM
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One interesting thing I found this winter was in Mexico. The wife and I did a tour of a mayan village. Mayans in mexico are the equivalent to our natives. These mayans for the most part still live totally off the land and recieve absolutely nothing as far as tax breaks and money from the government. These people were poor but very happy. The tour guide who was also a Mayan was very insistant in none of the tourists giving the people any money. They know what it will lead too. The children make little trinkits you can buy but that is about it. I found it quite interesting how they live versus our reserves. I asked the tour guide about any issues with drug and alcohol abuse in the villages. He looked at me kind of weird and said absolutely not. As far as I could tell the only differences between them and our natives was government exemptions and handouts.
Hmmm kinda reminds me of giving handouts to park bears!
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:39 PM
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I think I am out, they pull me back in.

First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.

Bill Maher said it best that racism is still alive and well. But most white people only recognize reverse racisim. They don't lynch people any more but those feelings are still there brewing deeply. Trying to strip our hunting rights are just another more relevent tactic. Sure in a perfect world everyone would be equal. But this isn't Eutopia.

The feeling you get when you see a native person deep in your gut is hate. As long as it's there we can never be equal. Alberta is to Canada as the "deep south" is to the united states. There are far deeper issues masking themselves in the posts that so frequently occur. Just because you say you are not racist
does not make it so. It's not all the non-native's fault. Hate flows both ways. Hate breeds ignorance and pettyness. That's why these threads tend to follow the same patterns.

I am aboriginal. I practice subsistance hunting. I feed my family. I will not apologize for it. And I will do whatever it takes to keep this right.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:48 PM
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First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.
You left out tax breaks,special grants,preferential treatment when applying for jobs with the government or with large corporations,preferred treatment given to native owned companies applying for contracts,and special treatment under the firearms act.

Now for the list of the breaks given to non-natives-it's so short,that it doesn't even exist.
  #84  
Old 06-27-2010, 05:57 PM
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I think I am out, they pull me back in.

First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.

Bill Maher said it best that racism is still alive and well. But most white people only recognize reverse racisim. They don't lynch people any more but those feelings are still there brewing deeply. Trying to strip our hunting rights are just another more relevent tactic. Sure in a perfect world everyone would be equal. But this isn't Eutopia.

The feeling you get when you see a native person deep in your gut is hate. As long as it's there we can never be equal. Alberta is to Canada as the "deep south" is to the united states. There are far deeper issues masking themselves in the posts that so frequently occur. Just because you say you are not racist
does not make it so. It's not all the non-native's fault. Hate flows both ways. Hate breeds ignorance and pettyness. That's why these threads tend to follow the same patterns.

I am aboriginal. I practice subsistance hunting. I feed my family. I will not apologize for it. And I will do whatever it takes to keep this right.
thats the only advantage hey... how about subsidized housing, health care, education, prefferential treatment in job hiring, major tax breaks. There are a heck of lot of HUGE advantages there. One huge pet peeve I have is excuses. I grew up in a family that did not have much money. I did not use that as an excuse and went out and made myself what I am today. I could have taken the easy route but in the long run my hard work is paying off with a great career and family in the making. Don't tell me that I have a hate on for natives. That is simply not the case. The native culture is really quite awesome. There traditions are something we can all learn from and I really hope they continue. That is no reason to abuse the system though. The fact is, the majority of natives are great people. However, some reserves have major problems that they themselves need to fix. It is up to them and not the government to step up, grab the bull by the horns, and make there reserve into what it can become. I have absolutely no problems with someone shooting a few deer or a moose to help feed his family, but there should be monitoring and some control of it. Whether the SRD gives each reserve an allotment of tags to hand out to their band members as they see fit, or we do it ourselves it makes no difference to me. If a member is very poor that band can give him 2 moose tags to help him out, but if the next member is either very well off or very lazy then they should only get one or none at all. Just like a spoiled kid will grow up without any sense of responsibility, a native that has everything handed to him will turn out the same way. Unfortunately it is human nature and will happen to anyone (white, black, asian, or native). Laziness does not discriminate based on skin colour.
  #85  
Old 06-27-2010, 06:19 PM
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I think I am out, they pull me back in.

First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.

Bill Maher said it best that racism is still alive and well. But most white people only recognize reverse racisim. They don't lynch people any more but those feelings are still there brewing deeply. Trying to strip our hunting rights are just another more relevent tactic. Sure in a perfect world everyone would be equal. But this isn't Eutopia.

The feeling you get when you see a native person deep in your gut is hate. As long as it's there we can never be equal. Alberta is to Canada as the "deep south" is to the united states. There are far deeper issues masking themselves in the posts that so frequently occur. Just because you say you are not racist
does not make it so. It's not all the non-native's fault. Hate flows both ways. Hate breeds ignorance and pettyness. That's why these threads tend to follow the same patterns.

I am aboriginal. I practice subsistance hunting. I feed my family. I will not apologize for it. And I will do whatever it takes to keep this right.
You say you are aboriginal, do you mean metis or do you full status ?
I commend you for buying tags if you are status ! Do you feel hatred when you see native people ? I won't believe 5 % of the people feel that.
The main issue of contention here is giving more or greater rights to metis.
And remember this fall if you get skunked you still can get an animal to feed your family for "subsistence." You already have that right along with every other person on this forum. Now that is equality it the 1st order.
  #86  
Old 06-27-2010, 06:39 PM
mac_xi@hotmail.com mac_xi@hotmail.com is offline
 
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Default Maybe our views of history are different.

I am not Metis. Not Indian. I am Inuit. I buy tags for hunting with my non native friends. My wife is full treaty Cree. I don't know about your views but to me "native" and "advantage" are two words that I don't associate with each other. I did not say it was our only advantage so you better reread my post.

What I can tell you is my personal experiecs being native. Living in Alberta you see first hand the interaction between natives and non natives. Although many people are not racist they do perpetuate stereotypes. I constantly feel the need to "prove" myself to my non native counter parts. You have no idea how many times I've heard "You are so well spoken."

I am not saying "whitey is evil". My father is non native. Racism is alive and well on both sides. To say it not is ignorant. If saying "5%" of people feel this way that's still over 20000 people in Edmonton alone. People have just been ridiculed to the point where they no longer express their views outloud.

I have a degree in Native Studies and a minor in Anthropology. Believe me when I tell you how well I know the topic of Native history and the human nature of it especially as it applies to Alberta. I would like some actual cconstructive discussion rather the same old few tired arguments.

Last edited by mac_xi@hotmail.com; 06-27-2010 at 06:47 PM.
  #87  
Old 06-27-2010, 06:54 PM
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wwbirds wwbirds is offline
 
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"some reserves have major problems which they need to fix themselves"

The reserve in itself is a problem for native people. They were convinced to go there and give up huge tracts of traditional land on the premise that their needs would be looked after. How does a tradition of hunter/gatherer do in a concentration camp. Go visit one sometime and see the poverty, depression, suicide, hopelessness. to the many who are getting an education and become successful on saw mills, trucking companies or whatever my hat is off to them for they have risen above the odds and made success from what could be more trajedy.
My grandparents were native and made a decent living from guiding trapping and hunted and fished when they needed food to feed 9 children. they never took a handout and were not affiiated with any reserve. Although poor by comparison to the white expectation they were very happy on their homesteaded little piece of land.
A televison education on aboriginal culture (the savages) was written by white folks and is not an accurate depiction of the true culture.
Get an education if you would like to make an informed statement. Start by listening to many of the informed elders on the culture and history.
One i heard thought it was hilarious Columbus is given credit for discovering America "as we were not lost, he was" the natives offered cohabitation to their new "friends". Some and not all of the settlers viewed natives as savages or pagans despite having their own culture, goverment and religion. This from a white culture that was still hunting down heretics and witchs and burning them at the stake. That is civilized.
the natives did not bring a knife to a gun fight but rather welcomed the settlers and assisted them in many ways in acquiring food and shelter in what was considered a harsh climate. The reward was the taking of all land and being set up in concentration camps where speaking their language, practicing their religion or even passing the native ways education on to their childeren was declared illegal. A once proud society has many problems which some members can't overcome but many are doing well. I think it was Mark Twain who said "if the definition of a ni**er is a shiftless lazy person we have a few white ones as well". As has been mentioned there are lazy folks in all cultures. Some as well aspire to greater things but removing treaty rights is just breaking more promises and widening the gap between have and have not. Just as some homeless people are just unlucky in their circumstances that put them on the street some natives just can't seem to catch a break to get out of the rut. the so called "reverse discrimination" laws gives them some advantages to correct past injustices from a largely prejudiced society. Look around many don't fit the sterotype that was typical twenty years ago, and in twenty more years more progress will be made. 200 years can't be overcome in a short period of time.
  #88  
Old 06-27-2010, 07:17 PM
lannie lannie is offline
 
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We are talking about METIS hunting "rights". Not taking status rights away.
The metis want to INCREASE unregulated access to the wildlife. This is a new deal. Stereotyping is never fair to anyone. I could care less if someone thinks
i'm cheap or drink too much scotch because my grandfather came from scotland. I have also seen french girls who were less than 9's and ukrainians who did not like cabbage. As "they" say - don't sweat the small stuff.
  #89  
Old 06-27-2010, 07:26 PM
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mulecrazy mulecrazy is offline
 
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In no way do I say that they should have to give up any treaty rights. There should be some control over animal harvest. The needy can still hunt for food, for free, but there needs to be some control. To continue moving the native people in a forward progressive manner things may have to change a little. And as far as I am concerned, If you move off the reserve and have a career and a successful life, there is absolutely no reason for special treatment. Can I blame some for taking advantage of the system? nope, but that doesn't mean its right. abuse is abuse.
  #90  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:27 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_xi@hotmail.com View Post
I think I am out, they pull me back in.

First off I am sick and tired of all the non-native people on this board playing the victim. Our hunting rights are pretty much the only advantage we have over non-natives.

Bill Maher said it best that racism is still alive and well. But most white people only recognize reverse racisim. They don't lynch people any more but those feelings are still there brewing deeply. Trying to strip our hunting rights are just another more relevent tactic. Sure in a perfect world everyone would be equal. But this isn't Eutopia.

The feeling you get when you see a native person deep in your gut is hate. As long as it's there we can never be equal. Alberta is to Canada as the "deep south" is to the united states. There are far deeper issues masking themselves in the posts that so frequently occur. Just because you say you are not racist
does not make it so. It's not all the non-native's fault. Hate flows both ways. Hate breeds ignorance and pettyness. That's why these threads tend to follow the same patterns.

I am aboriginal. I practice subsistance hunting. I feed my family. I will not apologize for it. And I will do whatever it takes to keep this right.
Yeah.. Bill Maher is the best example you can come up with...
Isnt he the guy who said they wrap the flank rope around the "Bulls Balz`in order to make him buck harder..

Just because you seem to think I `Hate`you when I see you, doesn't mean you are correct. In fact the ability to even say such a thing reeks of lack of self confidence. Grow a set will yah.


I think the best thing that can happen to any tribe is to have self governance of their lands. Right now the Gov owns them. Let the Bands have at them and those that fail will die, those that prosper will make out ok.

This is a issue with lots of pitfalls. Unfortunately we seem to have a group (Metis) who like to ask for way more than they deserve. (imho)

If we as a nation keep giving away part of who we are, soon we will have no idea who we are.

One people, one set of rules.

Jamie
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