Scope Power Question

[Mike_W]

I have been looking at some new scopes for my 300 win mag and currently have a VXIII on my 270 in 4.5 - 14 x 40.

However yesterday I was at wholesale and one of the guys tried saying that you shouldnt hunt with a 14 power scope or if you do you are taking a risk.

I love my VXIII and find the 14 x to be great when needed and when I walk bush Ill crank it down?

I am looking for a better quality scope and would like to go with a nikon in 4.5 - 14 X 40 for the times I might need some more magnification for long distance elk, However I would like to consider the positives and negative to having a scope like this.....personally I cant see and negatives, but would like to know before I purchase another.

Thanks

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

However yesterday I was at wholesale and one of the guys tried saying that you shouldnt hunt with a 14 power scope or if you do you are taking a risk.

I'm not sure how you'd be taking a 'risk' at all........thats kinda funny actually....

I'm personally not a fan of a 14x scope on a hunting rifle, but it aint a risk. I like a 3.5-10 and I keep it at 6x for most of the time.

If you like your scope, keep it and shoot it.....I see nothing wrong, a bit overpowered for most tasks but big deal.....

p

I use 3x10 scopes myself and find 10x plenty for shots on big game out to 500 yards.When hunting heavy timber and trying to pick out a bull elk sneaking in at 20 yards,even 3x is almost too much for my tastes.I personally would not want a scope with a minimum magnification of 4.5x.I always keep my scopes set on the lowest magnification in case a quick shot is required.If the game is far away,I usually have time to turn up the magnification.

[packhuntr]

Hey, you must have been talking to one of the same complete morons in there that i had to listen to last year, when picking up my wifes new rifle. Its embarasing..... Theres some real champs behind the counters at these outdoor stores. Leaves you with a whole new perspective, and a much needed 2 hour drive home, to try and figure out what the hell this trips "moron-at-the-counter" was trying to baffle ya with.

Sounds like youve shot afew scopes, take the good points from the ones youve shot, and look for a unit that offers em. Warning, could get expensive on you in a hurry!!! Guess it just depends what you like...

keep a strain on er.

[Pred@t0r]

I've got a 3-9x50 VX-I on my Tikka 300 WSM. I love it to death, but it's under-powered in my opinion. I'd prefer something more powerful so I can reach out to 400+ if I have to. But that's just me.

I'm getting back into bow hunting so I'd like to keep the rifle for longer range hunting. Even when I go hunting with the rifle I don't stalk game so I'm not sneaking up on anything. I usually keep 'em at 100+ so I don't find any use for the lower power of my scope. I guess it would come in handy if you're trodging through bush and stumble upon something, but I've looked through 9 power at 45 yards and still found the right spot to put the cross hairs.

I guess it's personal preference. I can't speak about Nikon, but I can praise Leupold to death. Like Packhuntr says though, it'll get pricey awfully quick, but in my books the most expesive piece on your kill stick should be the optics.

Good luck and take heed in the advice you get.

I've got a 3-9x50 VX-I on my Tikka 300 WSM. I love it to death, but it's under-powered in my opinion.

Optical quality means a great deal at longer distances.A high quality 3x9 will allow you to to make out much more detail than a lower end 3x9,especially in low light conditions.I started out with bushnell,then moved up to leupold and was content with my 3.5x10x40 vari x IIIs.Then I made the mistake of looking through a zeiss with slightly less magnification and was amazed at just how much better that I could see.Then I tried an swarovski 3x10x42 and now all of my hunting rifles wear these scopes.Quality optics can be addictive which can get expensive.If you want to remain content with your vx 1,don't look through any high end scopes,or the temptation may be overwhelming,and end up costing a lot of cash.

[Pathfinder76]

Is a 3X10 similar to a 2X4, or does "by" mean "to" in Euroslang?

[Dick284]

1-4, 2-7, 3-9, 2.5-10, 4-12, 4-16, 6-24. I own them all, and have shot a boat load of game with most of them.
I find the 10 to 12 times top end quite desireable if you take longer pokes.
The 4 - 16 is on my 270WSM right now and I think it otta be the answer for those longer pokes, this fall will tell.(wanna lay odds on everything being sub 100yd)

[Cordur]

I'm of the thought that 3-9X40 should be more than enough scope out to 300 yards and beyond that.... well I can admit that I'd have slim chances off hand beyond that range.

Personally I think a 2-7X32 is about ideal. Keeps the scope nice and low so you aren't adjusting elevation too far from center and you get a nice consistent cheek placement. I've never really understood guys who buy scopes with a 50mm objective on them.

This is a quote from an article by Andy Wakeman:

"If I asked someone a typical shooter if they could hit anything with iron sights at 50 yards, they might think they were being insulted. Yet, that is the same sight picture that we have with a 7X scope at 350 yards. It is not unwise to ask if we are shooting beyond 350 or 400 yards with regularity, or if we can confidently hold our gun still enough the way we hunt beyond 7 or 8 power."

What it comes down to is the quality of the glass not so much the magnification. I know at 500 yards my Burris 3-9X40 lets me see my target much more clearly than my bottom of their line Bushnell 3-9X40 does at 300 yards. If you want value for your money you could look at getting a fixed power in 6X, 7X or go as low as 4X. I've found that a $300 fixed 6X usually has much nicer glass than a $400 3-9X40. Also keep in mind that parallax really isn't that much of a problem in the bush with anything under 10X.

[Pred@t0r]

Hey stubblejumper, if I had your money I'd dress my smoke pole with Swarovski too. I can't afford it though. (right now anyway)

Hey dick284, what about the 6-24? Don't you like it? Since I'd like to stray from the rifle in sub 100 and move to glassing and long shots, that range would be my preference.

I find my 3-9 gets the job done, but going out past 300 is difficult since the targets look so small. Too much room for error (for me).

Hey stubblejumper, if I had your money I'd dress my smoke pole with Swarovski too. I can't afford it though. (right now anyway)

Just making the point that optics quality is a big factor when long distance shooting especially in low light where many shots are taken while hunting.Even the vxIII is not as good optically as a zeiss conquest that costs about the same.

As for the 6x24 scope.I did own a 6x24x40 elite 4200,and still own a 6.5x20x40 vxIII,and while both are great for long range shooting,both are also big and bulky for carrying around,and if you should encounter an animal at close range,it can be tough finding the target in the scope in a hurry.As well,the eye relief changes a great deal as you adjust the magnification on the 6.5x20 vxIII,so much in fact,that I have to move my head back and forth when I change the magnification.This is not a great situation for a hunting scope.

[Mike_W]

Thanks to all the replies!!

I want to address a couple things
@ wholesale sports there is a guys named Doug he’s a small mid 50's guy and there "scope mounting expert" he is the only guy I would buy a rifle from @ wholesale very educated and all around great guy if you go there ask for him!!

However the guy I got stuck talking with was a numbskull. First of all lazy when I asked about a certain gun (Sako) then I asked about a ruger in a certain caliber and he started knocking them then I asked about a browning a-bolt and he started to say how stupid there design was. Finally I let him know that I own both a Ruger and a Browning and don’t find them junk or to have stupid designs. Never met a sales person that badmouths the products they sell. (Sorry that’s my vent for the day)

The reason I am looking for a scope with more power is because I was out elk hunting on the last day of the season and had a heard with 3 bulls walk by @ 300 yards and I couldn’t count 3 points on any of them however I could tell the antlers stretched back over the shoulders and all should have carried 5 point rack...but it’s not worth the chance so I let them walk.

I ended up blaming poor quality 3x9 Bushnell scope ...that works fine a bush scope, but didn’t allow me to focus in on the antlers.

[Rackmastr]

Mike,
If you're worried about judging animals, get a good pair of binos.....they will make all the difference in the world.
The more powerful the scope doesnt make it easier to see at early or last light situations.....but a new quality scope will help at the low light situations no doubt....

[Duk Dog]

A book of Craig Boddington's I have recently been rereading backs you up there Trev. If you want to really be able to check a critter out invest in good binos.
As far as scope powers he states that he often goes with a fixed power and seldom ever above a 6x. Nationwide apparently the 3-9x is the most popular. He suggests if you have a variable that you leave it in the 3-5x range.
At the end of the day however it is like everything else - everyone will have their own opinion on it.

If you're worried about judging animals, get a good pair of binos.....they will make all the difference in the world.

Exactly,a riflescope is a sighting system that should only be used after you have made the decision to shoot ,not for glassing or counting points.Binoculars use both eyes and are much better for counting points and making out details.

The more powerful the scope doesnt make it easier to see at early or last light situations.....but a new quality scope will help at the low light situations no doubt....

Exactly my point.In fact the higher magnification scopes require a much larger objective lens in order to maintain the same exit pupil and transmit enough light to see in low light conditions.For this reason,you may actually be able to see better at lower magnification,in low light situations.

[Rugersingle]

Risk of what??? Missing the target due to magnification wobble??
If you cant hit the target with 10x, 14x wont make a difference, no matter what the range.
I tend to favor the lower range and limit the upper range for most of my hunting rifles, 1x7 or 2.5 x 8 or 1.75 x 6, 32,36 or 40mm max bell size. My personal max distance is 300 yards and all these are more than enough for that. The lower scale comes in very handy when trying to pick a hole through the "dirty bush" . I do have rifles with more magnification but they are either target or specialised use.
One advantage to the smaller scopes is weight, those big boys are heavy, pack that around all day and you'll know it. Another is balance, too big a scope on too small a gun effects not only the physical balance but also the aesthetic balance.
Like most things , you get what you pay for. That doesnt mean that everyone should run out and buy top of the line but if you can afford it the difference is worth it. Money invested in a "good" pair of bino's or a spotting scope is for me a better option than investing in a high magnification scope for hunting.

[packhuntr]

The more you magnify an object with any glass, spotting scope, glasses, or scope, the more you sacrifice the clarity.

I also like the fixed power scopes, tough as nails, and less that can go wrong with em. I enjoy the versatility of a variable, and have had to make sacrifices for that versatility, though still shoot a fixed on one rifle.

Figure out what your optical needs will be, not what they are at the moment. Set yourself up with a well rounded arsenal of glass, and those situations will become a rarity for you.

You shouldnt point a firearm at something you dont intend to shoot....But you learned about firearms somewhere at some point, so you already knew that....

keep a strain on er.

The more you magnify an object with any glass, spotting scope, glasses, or scope, the more you sacrifice the clarity.

More importantly,as you increase magnification,you decrease the field of view.

Risk of what??? Missing the target due to magnification wobble??

More like not being able to get a close range target in the scope as quickly due to a smaller field of view.I do know of one hunter that lost two opportunities at very close range elk because he kept his scope at 9x and spooked two bulls while trying to find them in the scope in heavy timber at close range.His very frustrated guide did however solve the problem by adjusting the scope to 3x and then placing several wraps of electrical tape over the adjustment so that the hunter could not move the adjustment again.Unfortunately,he never got a third chance at a bull,so he went home empty handed.

[Rugersingle]

Aahh yes..I forgot about that. After the second time I'm sure the guide was wondering about good old iron sights .
The tape was good comprimise

After the second time I'm sure the guide was wondering about good old iron sights .

The guide was a great guy that really wanted his hunter to be successful, but he was quite frustrated to have called two nice bulls in to within 20yards to 30 yards only to have the hunter not be able to get off the shot.As for iron sights,a low powered scope can be even quicker to get on target than open sights,just not on 9x.

[packhuntr]

That just depends on which kind of open sight you are comparing for speed against your low powered scope, at close rge. The old apperature is still the king of sights.....And if this hunter couldnt throw a rifle to his shoulder and stick it on im, ie; eyes on the target, and the sights come directly to the eye, there isnt a situation on earth such as described that he would be able to take advantage of.

keep a strain on er.

[Rugersingle]

I like iron sights but now prefer my lower power scopes for hunting. The extra light that they gather helps me a lot.
We were out to the range on friday and it was interesting using the different irons. From 100 to 300 yards I could use the old enfield ladder and blade not bad. But I when tried out peep and globe , even with the aperture set to max, I could not see the plate gong clearly enough past 200. Using the old buckhorn style I was good to about 100 yards and then the front blade covered too much of the target for me . I have a #1 with a vernier on the back and a blade up front and it was good all the way to 300.
The number of "hits" improved once I switched to the scopes.
Down in the bush, a good set of fast point peeps really make the rifle lighter but not good for me when hunting. Maybe I need laser eye surgery to improve my shooting?? or just more practise

[Pred@t0r]

I read up on this since I heard a lot of hype about lower power scopes and smaller objective lenses being just as good or better.

The exit pupil is what determines how much light leaves the scope to your eye. That is calculated by dividing the objective lens size (in mm) by the power of the scope. At 9 power a 40mm objective lense will have an exit pupil of 4.4mm. At 9 power a 50mm objective lens will have an exit pupil of 5.5mm.

The human eye dilates from 4mm to 7mm, 4 during the brightness of day and 7 during the blackness of night. I'm no expert but I'm guessing the magic hours for hunting are somewhere between 5 and 6.

So in the light of day the larger objective lens has no advantage over the smaller lens, but in the magic hour of Twilight the larger lens will be brighter and therefore have more clarity.

Having said that, there are other factors of course, like lens coatings (to prevent reflecting light).

If you want a higher power scope (like I do) I'd look for a larger objective lens and make sure they're multi-coated (all lenses on all sides). If you're going to stick to 9 power or less, or if you're going to hunt bright daylight only (or get atropine drops to dilate your eyes) then you can stick to a smaller objective lens.

But that's my understanding on this.

[bearbait]

mike....i run the nikkon buck master 6x24x42 and what a scope it is...has the bdc rectical and clear as all hell...have it on my 7mm mag and love it..

i would reccomend to any one..
rob

So in the light of day the larger objective lens has no advantage over the smaller lens, but in the magic hour of Twilight the larger lens will be brighter and therefore have more clarity.

Clarity or resolution is not determined by brightness.A scope can be brighter yet have less resolution or clarity.

The exit pupil is what determines how much light leaves the scope to your eye.

Theoretically yes.See statement below.

Having said that, there are other factors of course, like lens coatings

This factor can be quite significant,in that a 40mm or 42mm lens with premium lenses and coatings can be just as bright or brighter than a 50mm scope with lesser quality quality lenses and coatings.