Training question for the mountain hunters?

[Stinky Coyote]

So planning to get the wifey and wee man on some hikes so picked up a pack that can carry the wee man and some hiking gear for wifey so we can do some summer scouting/exercising together...and part way into this i thought...this is awesome...instead of pushing the little guy around the community on my runs with the running stroller i can throw him in that pack and hike his arse all over the place!

I still don't have a gps but have about 4 or 5 routes that i routinely do around the house and so i mapped them all out for km's with the car last night out of curiousity and the short one is 4 kms(when out of shape i start with this one when short on time too), my usual run is 6.3 kms, a new one thats all downhill one way and uphill the way back is 7.7 kms...and the long loop is 9.6 kms...walked that one pushing the stroller the other morning with wifey and dog....but i'm thinkin that my new main route will be the 7.7 km thats downhill going and uphill coming back with the kid on my back and speed walking instead of pushing the stroller. I'm guessing this to be the best option for training aside from actually hitting the hills with the pack on?...

What do you hardcore sheep hunters generally do for off season training? Just curious and looking for ideas also....oh and just wanna keep talking about sheep hunting lol.

The absolute best training is getting out and hiking with a fair sized pack. I try to get out once a week during the summer months and do a 9 or 10 hour hike. Other than that, I do some hills around home with a very heavy pack and do some hill runs on the treadmill. Flat running will get your cardio in shape which is good but you need the hill training (both up and down hill) for the legs.

[Lethalconnection]

Well i go mountain biking all the time and i tend to go all day, and whenever i go i always bring a backpack and it usually weighs 20lbs. Ive found that riding my bike works the legs alot more then just hiking or walking, especially for the uphill parts, and i find that when i walk uphill its alots easier cause im used to having to push my self to stay at a faster pace so i dont fall over on my bike. But im not a sheep hunter(yet ) I do alot of my hunting in some pretty rough terrain though and every little bit helps especially when you got extra layers of clothes, a heavy pack, gun and 2 feet of snow on the ground

Mountain biking is an awesome excersise for building the legs for uphill and something I do as well but where most people break down sheep hunting is going downhill with a heavy load because they have never trained for it. The only way to really train your muscles for downhill is to throw a pack on and walk steep downhill grades. A 100 pound pack will bring even the fittest sheep hunter to his knees if he hasn't done downhill training.

[Stinky Coyote]

Awesome info!

Sheep...the Tony Russ book rocks(thanks for that tip)...by far one of my favorites of the 7 or 8 i got!...i'm almost done it and he made a good point about the stairmasters....he likes the ones that have rotating stairs as your foot doesn't get the 'assist' on the upstroke....and i have the type he doesn't like as much....so i'm more aware of that and try to go as deep a steps as possible....plus after my first rip in the hills with the pack on i enjoyed a whole new set of muscles that got sore...so i'm looking for new and different ways to train that are still convenient....i like to workout about 6 days a week and although i'd love to get to the hills once a week thats not going to happen much so i'm doing some homework to try and find alot of convenient ways to train.

Awesome point about the downhill, i know it to be the key weakness too as i've got one knee that can give me trouble and its always on downhill stuff...not noticing it much now that i'm in better shape so i'm happy as heck about that. So what i need to do is find a good steep trail that i can get to via foot and then go up and down that with the wee man and xtra weight on the back (he's only 14 lbs right now) a bunch of times so i can get the downhill stuff built up...the uphill and the lungs are covered....so now need to work the uphill with weight and downhill with weight. There's a beauty hill down in edworthy park that i've run before and alot of sprinters like to train on but i'm a tad far to make it on foot...maybe i'll have to just run down in the truck to run it instead.....got me thinkin boys! I like hearing what guys are doing in this regard.

[Duk Dog]

Another vote for that Tony Russ book, it is a good one.

Stinky - what part of Calgary are you in? Lots of options for hills to climb depending on where you are at. Down in the deep south there are a number of hills and coulees to be worked along the Bow.

[Rackmastr]

Duk....you're not allowed to train very hard.....I need to be able to keep up to ya this year!!! Maybe I'll just soak your boots the night before we go hikin so you can wear wet/shrunken boots....

I climb up and down hills as well....with my pack and gear on...gives a guy a good chance to ensure your gear is working fine. Wear the same boots as you will when you hunt too...I find it helps a lot.

Jogging every once in a while....but not a fan really....heh

[Duk Dog]

LOL keeping up won't be a problem. I am coming to realize the last few years I can't rely on my youth to get me through a physical hunt anymore. Not that I'm all that old yet, but some preseason training sure helps. I'm certainly not hitting the trails as hard as Stinky or Sheep, but every little bit helps. So far I am just using my day pack with most of the regular items in it, but my plan is to migrate to the bigger pack complete with all the gear including a tent and sleeping bag. I figure hiking the coulees up and down as well as side hilling will be good to get me in a bit better shape come the fall.

I am coming to realize the last few years I can't rely on my youth to get me through a physical hunt anymore.

And it doesn't get any better the older you get. There are some advantages to getting older but that sure isn't on of them.

[Chet]

...instead of pushing the little guy around the community on my runs with the running stroller i can throw him in that pack and hike his arse all over the place!

This works pretty good and its a good way to give Momma some peace and quiet while you get some training in. I live on the west edge of Calgary and use the river valley near the Stoney Trail bridge to train with my pack. It's completely forested and nice and steep but I found out its not a good place to hike with a kid in your pack because they tend to forget to duck for the branches and listening to them cry 6" from your ear does not make for an enjoyable outing (and its not nice to your kid either). In an open area those Kid back packs are great though.

My other good training method was taking the stairs at work fairly regularly. It worked great when my office was on the 36th floor in Bow Valley Square but we moved and in the new building we are only on the 6th floor so it doesn't have quite the same effect.

Chet

[Stinky Coyote]

Lol, yeah i'm on west side of town but not near enough to the river, there is some undeveloped land nearby with good hills i could go up and down on but it would be a mosquito infested mess through some thigh high thistle etc. and i'd be breaking my own trail....down south where i grew up fish creek and the bow....yeah...that would be great but edworthy and that monster hill might be the only ticket for me as i'm up on the plateau and there isn't anything i can find real suitable within foot distance of the house....got some great loops and paths just nothing with some steepness to them. And edworthy hill is somewhat in the open so i won't have to worry too much about the bugs or branches for the little guy lol. I'll try it out and see what happens...i know i ran to it once a couple years ago from the soccer fields in bowness along the river while wifey was playing soccer once and then i sprinted the hill a few times and then ran back, across the river and to the soccer fields again...never tried to get to it from the west side of river and bow trail so just need to drive down and have a look cause there was a parking lot there so it could be slick...5 minute drive, out of the van and literally in about 50 yrds i could be going up and down that hill...yeah...i'm gonna try that one out. I'll keep looking for the right thing within foot distance of the house though...maximum convenience is the goal right now.

[altaberg]

have to agree with sheephunter, by far the best exercise is to actually go hiking/scrambling in the mountains.

In the absence of that I run stairs (better than a stair climber because you have to come down) do hill repeats on my road bike and swim.

I also think some weight training is a good idea as yu get older to not loose muscle. Especially a bit of strength training for core muscles is a good idea.

[TreeGuy]

Ha! Here's another west-side boy! I'm 5 minutes downhill to the river by Bowness Park. Chet, I know the area of which you speak. It's awesome, but keep your eyes open, I've seen a black bear once in there, and a cougar twice! If you are a fisherman, boy do I have a spot for you! PM me and I'll hook ya up (we've named it the 'Aquarium')!

Sorry for the mini-hijack! So far the best advice I've heard is from SheepHunter. TRAIN FOR GOING DOWN! I cannot emphasize that enough!! The stairs/stairmasters, jogging, hiking, etc are great! They however DO NOT prepare you for getting down. Down is always harder than up. Down is when you get in trouble every time!

When I used to chase summits alot, there was ONE RULE THAT WAS NEVER, EVER BROKEN!!! The top is exactly the HALFWAY POINT! You gotta get home next. We would never expend more than 60-65% of our physical resources to top out. That mountain is going to be there for another few million years, so there is a good chance you can try to summit again.

Over and over again I've seen groups join us to have a look at what is on the other side, and they were gassed. One August, we passed three groups that were waaayyyy ahead of us when we started. The peak was quite small in area with some pretty impressive exposure (Mt. Chester).

My partner and I had a rest, took some pics, ate a light lunch, and watched a mountain storm roll in at eye-level. This took 45 minutes. When the other groups arrived, they were at about 85% of expended physical resources. We gave they anything we had left, told them to build a rock windbreak, and got the hell out of Dodge!

800' vertical lower the storm hit, and it was a blizzard like I've never seen! Fortunately, we were near the line of transition where it turned to rain, and we were on a safe course. We got out and gave the rangers the heads up to check for cars in the parking area that night or in the morning. Never heard anything else again, so I guess they made it.

Sorry for going on and on, but the point is that what goes up must come down! Down is harder than up, so be prepared!

Tree

[Stinky Coyote]

Yeah, that downhill loaded training struck a cord forsure, i'm guessing i need to shape up for that as i should be coming out with around 140 pounds on my back at some point this fall. I stopped in edworthy on the way home to see how to get in from my side and i live about 10 minutes from there. I brought the pack/boots/shorts for on the way home today i'm gonna go up and down that little mother as many times as i can in 1/2 hour to 45 minutes and hopefully earn the beer batter halibut fish and chips dinner that the gals (wife and neighbors wife) are gonna have ready for me and neighbors husband to cook when we get home from work....the mojito's will add a few calories too....dang summer.

[Stinky Coyote]

I also think some weight training is a good idea as yu get older to not loose muscle. Especially a bit of strength training for core muscles is a good idea.

Yeah thats what i've been doing for the upper body but bored of it lately so just switched back to punching bobby and doing the upper body cardio thing. I got one of those soft rubber guy punching stands (they call him bobby...i call him 'my bitch') that makes it nice as you can hit him as hard as you want with just the light weight speed bag gloves on (makes it convenient as compared to the heavy bag and lace up gloves etc.)...and i tell ya...try punching anything for 20 min to half hour...awesome workout! So i'm always switching it up when things get a bit repetative and easy. I'm glad i've collected and kept gym equipment over the past decade as sometimes you go through spells you don't use it much but other times your aweful glad you kept it all!

[Duk Dog]

Hope this is still on topic for this thread - otherwise I can start a new one. Just curious for everyone doing their pre season training hikes how much water is everyone going through? Looks like we have hikes ranging every where from 1/2 hour to Sheep's 8 to 10 hour hikes. I think my Camelbak bladder bag is 100 oz (2.95 L if I have done my math correct) that is in my pack and it is usually close to gone by the time I head home. I'm also trying to get in the habit of drinking 1 L + a day at work if I can. Sheep how much water are you carting around on a hike that size?

[Rackmastr]

When I go out for a hike, I fill my camelback....I'll have to check the size of mine but its a standard size. That usually gets me for a couple hours of hiking. Depending where I am, I'll pack a litre or two extra or if I'm in an area with good creeks, I'll just re-fill when neccessary. I actually drink a lot of water usually, but I find that camelback sure makes things nice.....small sips....

Next time I'm out I'm going to measure how much water I use....

[Duk Dog]

For those filling or topping up as you go are you using a water purifier or purification tablets?

[John Spartan]

Besides all the previous stuff mentioned, always a good idea to get a thorough annual physical done - gives you a good idea what is working right and what needs work rather than have big medical problems later on.

[Stinky Coyote]

Yeah...good question on the water thing...i'm curious too.

I know on my first hike i was gone about 4 hours and i have a 2 liter bladder plus an 800 ml bottle and i went through the 2 liters in 4 hours and when i got back to the truck i chugged the 800 ml. I never went thirsty...so i'm curious if this is normal. I was hiking as fast as i could for a workout and juiced up on anti-histamines for the hay fever which always makes me go thermal as soon as i get the heart rate up a bit...so now that i'm done with the anti-histamines (usually a 3 week stint every year i need to take them and it just ended a couple days ago) i think i'll go through a little less water?

[altaberg]

hey Stinky,

water consumption and sweat rates are a very personal thing. Professional cyclists and triathletes go through elaborate lab tests to determine thier sweat rates and how much salt they loose too. Depends, obviously, on the temperature, the wind, the humidity, in the mountains the altitude and your genetics. You just have to try and see how you do.

Most people can't absorb more than 2l an hour anyway and 1l is sufficient for most. Also depends what you drink; Gatorade or so gets taken up by your system faster than water.

Coolest thing I've seen is a squeeze water bottle with a built in filter. You just fill it from a stream and the water is filtered when you sqeeze it out.
I have been drinking water from mountain streams pure for a long time and have suffered no ill effects (even people who know me tend to agree most of the time). I'm a bit selective where I grab the water though.

[Stinky Coyote]

Thanks for tips on the water thing. I was doing less than 1 liter per hour so will see if i can figure out some things in the future workouts.

I did that hill i mentioned in edworthy park friday after work with the pack on, 5 times up and down took me about 40 minutes but i can see its a great workout plus will point out any deficiencies in the gear too! 3 small blisters but tried an extremely thin pair of socks and they are such small blisters that the don't affect anthing...just points for me to work on for longer days......will be experimenting with this in the future plus pack fit fine tuning will be much easier doing this type of workout so thanks for the suggestions on the 'gear learning' you get by this type of training...and the knee saving this type of training will surely be doing also!

I've trained myself to go with very little water. We did a 6-hour hike on Saturday and I went through one litre of water. The problem with extended trips in the high country is that water is often non-existent. The Willmore trip we are doing this year for example, water is about a 2-hour round trip to get to. We are figuring on using 2 litres of water per day per person and that includes cooking dinners. I'll drink lots if there is ground water around but I'm not big on carrying water and rarely go through more than 1.5 litres....even on the hottest days. Is this healthy? Likely not but it does extend the time I can spend in the high country.

[Stinky Coyote]

I'm hoping i'll be more like that also. I know when i do my runs etc. i don't take any water and i'll go for an hour straight running and i'm not dying of thirst when i get home, i down a couple tall glasses of water when i get home and the second one isn't because i'm thirsty but more like "my body probably needs this". I'm gonna try and carry the 2.8l when i go hunting and if i work hard and run into water then i'll top me and everything else up...otherwise that amount of water should get me through a long day...will keep some in the truck for when get back too.

[altaberg]

hi,

don't think going with this little water is healthy (kidney stones are painful I've been told). I've done it myself (climbing mostly) but it does degrade your performance physically and mentally even if you don't notice.

You should definitely not do it if you ever take any kind of medication (ibuprofen, diamox, any prescription drugs) that could really f@#$ you up and fairly quickly too.

In my first aid kit I carry some Iodine tablets and also a simple syringe with some milipore screw filters. Those are disposable and way next to nothing. I usually don't use either, it's more for an emergency when you need clean water even for washing a wound.

As for the blisters. Here's a trick I learned back in the army. Wear some soft wool socks and a second pair of very thin, tight dress socks over the top inside your boots. That way friction happens between the sock layers. Works for me most of the time; I find blisters more often than not an issue with the socks than with the boots.

[TreeGuy]

This has to be a first, but I am going to agree with Sheep twice in a row. On the many peaks I have been on, I carry far less than 2l. In the rookie days, I'd throw a 1l of Coke in the bag and be good for at least 6 hrs. Today it is Gatorade. We always ended up high enough to get into snow or springs, so fluids could be found.

If you are working below where the snow can be found year round, then yes, you will require that much liquid.

However, it all depends on your body type and sweat ratios, etc.

Look, I have taken many physically fit individuals up on the rock over the years. They run, jog, lift weights, etc. I am a smoker. . I don't run, jog or lift weights (althought in fairness, I work a very physicall job). What I do know is PACE! These kids rip off and are waiting for me. I just smile at them, because I know that in 10 hours from now, I'll be going the same speed, and kicking their whipped butts! I know that it is a terrible habbit, but I have to say, there is nothing better than kicking another group's azzes to the summit, and then sitting down to enjoy a smoke! Sometimes I bring beer!

Tree

altaberg is right and it's not something I promote but in much of sheep country there is no water and carrying more than 2litres of water becomes a major amount of extra weight so I guess I'm willing to sacrifice my body a bit. Many of the places where I hunt there is no water or snow and getting water means several hours of climbing. You learn to conserve or you don't hunt these areas. If I've got a ready supply of water you bet I drink more but if not, I can get by on a litre for a day hunt and two lites a day when doing extended trips.

And why is everyone so surprised they agree with me this week...lol...I'm starting to take it personally.

[altaberg]

I'll try hard to find something to disagree but it's getting past my bed time.

Treeguy I'll send you an e-mail in a moment with photos of a bowline, a sheet bend and a 6:1. I have taught courses about ropes to climbers, skiers and paddlers and have tons of pictures. I'm not sure they are very good and the same you teach so I leave that up to you. I also can't get my pictures small enough to post right now without having my head explode