Cops VS Gun Owners AGAIN!

[pattycr125]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

i want the end of C68 as much as anyone. but i'm also a PIG. and this article is obviously missing something huge. because we dont go a raid a house without a reason.

and i hate to say it, but any POS motorcycle gang member probably deserves it..

like all statistics and news reports, they show exactly what the author wants them to show and little more.

i think alot of people could speak of POS cops that deserve alot of things to, i don't hate all cops but you're attitude is **** poor and indicates the type of officer you are.

before everyone hates on me, i'm entitled to my opinion.

i for one see this division as the downfall of humanity, couldn't a biker and officer get along? divided we fall

i would consider a friendship with a police officer if he was not quick to judge me because i own guns or I ride a motorcycle, but if thats to much to ask then so be it our society will continue to be divided.

[bigbadjoe108]

Originally Posted by rugatika

The citizens are afraid of the police, and it looks like the police are afraid of their masters/handlers. http://www.naturalnews.com/030563_TS...sychology.html

Am I wrong?? I really hope I am...but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, .....

Kinda leads to a question of the police. At what point would you stop saying..."I'm just doing my job."?? How many times IN THIS VERY COUNTRY have we seen police ordered to do something that is blatantly unconstitutional, go ahead and do it? G8, peppergate, gun owner harrasment, confiscation of guns that are being properly transported etc etc etc. All under the guise of "I was just doing my job." Shameful. If you don't have the moral capability to stand up for what is right, you should not be a police officer...plain and simple. We entrust great powers with police officers, and to come on here and say that you will not stand up for the rights of your fellow citizens AND family because it might cost you your job. Funny...but I've heard that somewhere before in history.


Oh yeah...that was a huge slap in the face to Randy, claiming he must have had a backup plan. As if to question his courageousness and excuse your lack thereof. AND I don't mean to single you out either, as it seems to be the prevailing thought pattern among police and not the exception.

Police state? seriously? Have you lived anywhere other than Alberta? Have you watched the news on the middle east recently?

I don't like the police overextending either, but you should seriously give your head a shake.

[pattycr125]

Originally Posted by bigbadjoe108

Police state? seriously? Have you lived anywhere other than Alberta? Have you watched the news on the middle east recently?

I don't like the police overextending either, but you should seriously give your head a shake.

we are not a police state, but that is the direction it is heading, tiny step by tiny step

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

pfft. I just read through my firearms manual, and the term of 'lock is so loosely applied, you can use a zip tie and it qualifies.

Someone better make a firearm lock....

That is all that is needed legally, because "safe storage" means to keep the gun from being inoperable by people like children, it is NOT "theft prevention".
As far as police raiding the house of a person and charging him with unsafe storage when his guns are stored safely is just plain wrong, even if he is a member of an outlaw bike gang or any other organized crime body.

So much for guilty until proven innocent.
There was a cop here that said "that POS motorcycle gang member probably had it coming " or something like that??!!
YOU SIR ARE A DISGRACE TO YOUR UNIFORM!!
Since when do YOU decide the law?
I have had experiences with people like you before, and although I had done nothing wrong it cost me thousands of dollars and time to get back what was rightfully and legally mine with no charges laid , all because of suspicion and harassment by people like yourself.

Crap, and cops like you wonder why you are not liked?
Cat

[bigbadjoe108]

Originally Posted by pattycr125

we are not a police state, but that is the direction it is heading, tiny step by tiny step

Yup, you're probably right there. By the year 3500 AD we may be half way to being Saudi Arabia or North Korea.

Seriously, besides Bill C-68, which I am SURE everyone here would agree was a POS piece of legislation put in by a party that membership therein should be illegal, what else do you think is leading us down the path towards totalitarianism?

Police give the guy the boot in Kelowna: Charged. Police lie on the stand about the Dzeikanski (sp?) guy at VIA: charged.

Any more examples?

With any luck there will be an amendment in the next budget that cancels funding to the long gun registry and hopefully all this can be put to rest sooner than later.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

I have been pondering that one for awhile now. Im kinda leaning towards "firearms only" charges resulting in firearms ban. Reason is this:

A woman beats her husband. She gets charged. She is a firearms owner. Firearms played no part in the assault. Where is the connection? Should she lose her guns because she assaulted her husband? I say no.

Now if she threatened to shoot him or something happened that related to tge firearms, then yes.

It kinda gives support to the idea that if someone gets violent, they will shoot someone. Thats not always the case. Its actually very uncommon.

I think it makes an unfair connection between violence and guns.

If i punch out some guy who makes a sexual type comment to my wife, should i be in fear of losing my guns? I think not. If it were the case, i would be like so many other people who seem forced to put up with abuse and not react for fear of being treated harsher than the perpetrator

I can see your point. On the otherhand, I feel that you should be a law-abiding (relatively at least. I don't care about driving convictions or petty crimes. Talking about violent crimes) and mentally competent in order to legally own firearms. I wouldn't agree with licensing someone who has been reliably diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. They aren't competent. Ditto with someone who can't control their impulses to rape or assault (by the latter I'm not talking about one fight. I'm talking about a guy with multiple convictions).

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I can see your point. On the otherhand, I feel that you should be a law-abiding (relatively at least. I don't care about driving convictions or petty crimes. Talking about violent crimes) and mentally competent in order to legally own firearms. I wouldn't agree with licensing someone who has been reliably diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. They aren't competent. Ditto with someone who can't control their impulses to rape or assault (by the latter I'm not talking about one fight. I'm talking about a guy with multiple convictions).

Yup. You got it right. I imagine there would be circumstances where it would be prudent to impose a firearm prohibition on such people. I guess what Im trying to say is that it should not be automatic

But you are right. Certain circumstances would definitely support a prohibition for sure

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by bigd

Yeah, it's our fault. We should all lose our jobs so we can all keep our guns. What did you do to support the registry when it was 'on the chopping block' as you call it? I may not have publicly supported the demise of the registry as a police officer but I can assure you that I've gone above and beyond to minimize the impact of the registry and C68 on law abiding citizens.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for Randy and what he's done for our cause. I hope that he hasn't put his career and family at risk. I suspect that he is in a position that if he was to get into hot water from his employer due to his actions that he would have a good back up plan such as retirement etc.

I'm only about half way to my pension, have 3 children to raise, a home to pay for, food to buy. Not a gun in the world that is worth more to me than being able to support my family

Here's an idea...you quit your job and devote 40 hrs a week to the cause. Seems to me, you feel that this is essentially what you expect of Canadian LEO's. Let me know how that works out for you.

Nope. No back up plan at all. I just figured that I was safe because I was telling the truth

So far, so good. I guess they think Im just enough crazy that its best to leave me alone.

Crazy like a fox, that is....... Lol

[bagwan]

I think a lot of the answer might be that most of your leaders might secretly agree with you, Randy. For political gain and advancement and the good old boy mentality in the upper echelon it is prudent they stick together. Now that a majority Gov is in maybe it will swing your way and the upper brass re think some of their positions. Fantino is back in again and in that outer Toronto fringe as are a lot of other Conservatives. Quite a break through in that area. It would be nice to poll the Chiefs in the Toronto area about six months from now. When Edmonton names a new Chief maybe you'll get a medal.

[crunchiespg]

Originally Posted by pattycr125

i think alot of people could speak of POS cops that deserve alot of things to, i don't hate all cops but you're attitude is **** poor and indicates the type of officer you are.

before everyone hates on me, i'm entitled to my opinion.

i for one see this division as the downfall of humanity, couldn't a biker and officer get along? divided we fall

i would consider a friendship with a police officer if he was not quick to judge me because i own guns or I ride a motorcycle, but if thats to much to ask then so be it our society will continue to be divided.

i own guns.
i ride a motorcycle.
i'm all for C68 going.
i regularly inform other officer when they are wrong about firearms laws. and you cant always blame the officers for not knowing the intricate aspects of the firearms law. enough passionate firearms owners struggle to understand them. this forum and others are proof of that. how many times do you see a question from someone with a pal about the most basic of storage laws or similar?

my point was, i have yet to see a motorcycle gang member who doesnt inflict problems on society. i stand by the statement that criminal gang members are POS. i have seen the bloodshed, seen the families destroyed by these people. when i said he had it coming, i meant he has probably attracted attention to his illegal activities. i didnt mean he had it coming as in lets make up some charges just to get him.

but you take my one quote out of context. i want all us legal gun owners to have all the freedoms we deserve. i fight passionately for that. do you?

my chief publicly said the registry is crap.

i guarantee if you spoke to me in life i could break your stereo type of cops. in fact i go out of my way to make sure i'm as fair as possible to everyone.

my current job gives me a lot of flexibility to give people advise and just be the friendly face of the police. i dont do traffic tickets. and i much prefer to educate than prosecute.

like i said. the offer is there for a ride along. then you might think differently of us.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

i own guns.
i ride a motorcycle.
i'm all for C68 going.
i regularly inform other officer when they are wrong about firearms laws. and you cant always blame the officers for not knowing the intricate aspects of the firearms law. enough passionate firearms owners struggle to understand them. this forum and others are proof of that. how many times do you see a question from someone with a pal about the most basic of storage laws or similar?

my point was, i have yet to see a motorcycle gang member who doesnt inflict problems on society. i stand by the statement that criminal gang members are POS. i have seen the bloodshed, seen the families destroyed by these people. when i said he had it coming, i meant he has probably attracted attention to his illegal activities. i didnt mean he had it coming as in lets make up some charges just to get him.

but you take my one quote out of context. i want all us legal gun owners to have all the freedoms we deserve. i fight passionately for that. do you?

my chief publicly said the registry is crap.

i guarantee if you spoke to me in life i could break your stereo type of cops. in fact i go out of my way to make sure i'm as fair as possible to everyone.

my current job gives me a lot of flexibility to give people advise and just be the friendly face of the police. i dont do traffic tickets. and i much prefer to educate than prosecute.

like i said. the offer is there for a ride along. then you might think differently of us.

I don't think I took that quote out of context at all, and no, I won't ride with you anywhere, on two wheels or in a car.
You are not the kind of person I want to associate with , and that is a person who presumes people guilty untill they can prove themselves innocent becauae of what they are or who they associate themsxelves with. you made that pretty clear.
Cat

[crunchiespg]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I don't think I took that quote out of context at all, and no, I won't ride with you anywhere, on two wheels or in a car.
You are not the kind of person I want to associate with , and that is a person who presumes people guilty untill they can prove themselves innocent becauae of what they are or who they associate themsxelves with. you made that pretty clear.
Cat

So from one line you know everything about me? And no I don't think people are guilty until proven innocent.
What I do think is you don't get to lead a criminal gang while being a model citizen. I'm sorry but if you are so sheltered to think a gang leader isn't a criminal then we will have to disagree.

But please don't make out my dislike of organised crime makes me out to persecute everyone. I simply don't do that.

In fact I encourage everyone to do what the law says. And no more. And don't be scared because if you are right and lawful that's what matters. For instance transport laws. If you want to transport with your rifle on the seat. Go ahead. That's the law. Carry the regs card with you and stand up for your rights.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

So from one line you know everything about me? And no I don't think people are guilty until proven innocent.
What I do think is you don't get to lead a criminal gang while being a model citizen. I'm sorry but if you are so sheltered to think a gang leader isn't a criminal then we will have to disagree.

But please don't make out my dislike of organised crime makes me out to persecute everyone. I simply don't do that.

In fact I encourage everyone to do what the law says. And no more. And don't be scared because if you are right and lawful that's what matters. For instance transport laws. If you want to transport with your rifle on the seat. Go ahead. That's the law. Carry the regs card with you and stand up for your rights.

The problem with standing up for our rights is when people like you decide that we have something coming to us because you think we deserve it, not because of a law that was broken.
Whatever, c'a.
Cat

[gatorhunter]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

i own guns.
i ride a motorcycle.
i'm all for C68 going.
i regularly inform other officer when they are wrong about firearms laws. and you cant always blame the officers for not knowing the intricate aspects of the firearms law. enough passionate firearms owners struggle to understand them. this forum and others are proof of that. how many times do you see a question from someone with a pal about the most basic of storage laws or similar?

my point was, i have yet to see a motorcycle gang member who doesnt inflict problems on society. i stand by the statement that criminal gang members are POS. i have seen the bloodshed, seen the families destroyed by these people. when i said he had it coming, i meant he has probably attracted attention to his illegal activities. i didnt mean he had it coming as in lets make up some charges just to get him.

but you take my one quote out of context. i want all us legal gun owners to have all the freedoms we deserve. i fight passionately for that. do you?

my chief publicly said the registry is crap.

i guarantee if you spoke to me in life i could break your stereo type of cops. in fact i go out of my way to make sure i'm as fair as possible to everyone.

my current job gives me a lot of flexibility to give people advise and just be the friendly face of the police. i dont do traffic tickets. and i much prefer to educate than prosecute.

like i said. the offer is there for a ride along. then you might think differently of us.

From what I've been reading, you are a credit to your uniform! I would consider it a privilege to ride with you any time.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

like i said. the offer is there for a ride along. then you might think differently of us.

I'd be happy to take you up on this offer. Won't be my first ride-along, in the front. Which district do you work in?

I will tell you what happened to me and the raid on my house. Maybe you will change your mind in the truth of my earlier posts. I'll share names of fellow CPS you can talk to regarding the topic.

I am not ready to post details of this event up on the net. Why? Because I am concerned about another unjustified ransacking of my home.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by bigbadjoe108

Police state? seriously? Have you lived anywhere other than Alberta? Have you watched the news on the middle east recently?

I don't like the police overextending either, but you should seriously give your head a shake.

You must have better eyes than I do....cause I missed the part where I called Canada a "police state". Mind pointing that out for me...thanks.

What we have in Canada is a police force that is more and more enforcing their prejudices on the public. As I stated...how many stories have we heard of some guy getting kicked in the face for the lawful use of a firearm, having their firearms confiscated while "lawfully" transporting them, having their homes invaded and being charged with some phony "safe storage" charges? You better give your head a shake. The police are starting to use C68 as their own little battering ram more and more and it needs to be brought to a stop.

Oh and I have lived in Saskatchewan by the way.

[bigbadjoe108]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

So you advocate the police rushing into a home, and breaking ribs on 76 year old men, because of something that may happen in the future?

Wow

Nope, all I was saying is that the people on this board are automatically agianst the cops on this and that there are two sides to every story.

Maybe they were contemplating charges for a bunch of other stuff but the witnesses all suddenly forgot what they saw....

You don't know and I have to say I find it insane that people are siding with a former leader of a biker gang and his scuzzball defense lawyer before they find out what happens in open court.

And if you read my post correctly you would have seen that basically, in this situation, the police would have been wrong in each case.

And yes, as I stated before, I would love for C-68 to go bye bye!

[bigbadjoe108]

Originally Posted by rugatika

You must have better eyes than I do....cause I missed the part where I called Canada a "police state". Mind pointing that out for me...thanks.

What we have in Canada is a police force that is more and more enforcing their prejudices on the public. As I stated...how many stories have we heard of some guy getting kicked in the face for the lawful use of a firearm, having their firearms confiscated while "lawfully" transporting them, having their homes invaded and being charged with some phony "safe storage" charges? You better give your head a shake. The police are starting to use C68 as their own little battering ram more and more and it needs to be brought to a stop.

Oh and I have lived in Saskatchewan by the way.

It was in your title... it didn't get quoted when I hit the button:

you have nicely summed up the whole problem of a police state

And I want C68 gone gone gone as well.... I just think that our CBC infused left wing media has really turned the public against the police and I think that is wrong.

Like I wrote earlier, each and every day thousands upon thousands of police officers go home after a shift after doing a hard job well. No news there. If, in this case, the cops went wrong, I hope that they face justice themselves. I am just stating that there is another side to the story that, generally for legal reasons, can't be released until it goes to court.

Dirtbags and their dirtbag lawyers know this and use that fact to their full effect.

[Straightgun]

I blame everyone that voted liberal!

[elkhunter11]

Nope, all I was saying is that the people on this board are automatically agianst the cops on this and that there are two sides to every story

Very few people are against all police officers in general, but many of us believe that certain officers that abuse their authority need to be held accountable for their actions. The truth is that I believe that the vast majority of officers do their job as best as they can, but the few bad apples taint the reputation of the rest.

Maybe they were contemplating charges for a bunch of other stuff but the witnesses all suddenly forgot what they saw....

Do you have any fact to back up that assumption, or are you just making an unfounded assumption?

You don't know and I have to say I find it insane that people are siding with a former leader of a biker gang and his scuzzball defense lawyer before they find out what happens in open court.

I don't have to be a supporter of the former biker to be disturbed by the tactics used in this incident. However, I do happen to feel that breaking a 76 year old man's ribs, and making him lie on a floor with broken ribs for five hours, is unreasonable, especially when they have no reason other than suspecting that he may lock up his firearms using low quality locks.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by gatorhunter

From what I've been reading, you are a credit to your uniform! I would consider it a privilege to ride with you any time.

That would be in the back seat in handcuffs?

[bigbadjoe108]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Very few people are against all police officers in general, but many of us believe that certain officers that abuse their authority need to be held accountable for their actions. The truth is that I believe that the vast majority of officers do their job as best as they can, but the few bad apples taint the reputation of the rest.



Do you have any fact to back up that assumption, or are you just making an unfounded assumption?



I don't have to be a supporter of the former biker to be disturbed by the tactics used in this incident. However, I do happen to feel that breaking a 76 year old man's ribs, and making him lie on a floor with broken ribs for five hours, is unreasonable, especially when they have no reason other than suspecting that he may lock up his firearms using low quality locks.

Do you have any facts to back up your assumption? Or are you just making an unfounded assumption.

Goes both ways. The experienced police officer on this board is catching heck for assuming that the biker did something to deserve it. You are assuming that he did not.

Wait for the court case to go through.

[Elko]

If this happened well over a year ago, why the story right now, perhaps just trying to inflame the situation, trying to drum up more support for killing the long gun registry. Goto wonder at that.

And what does the guy being 76 really have to do with it? He can't be a dangerous guy at 76, can't pull the trigger maybe. I have seen and worked with some 76 yr old men, welders or farmers mostly that were still pretty strong tough men, and certainly could be as dangerous or even more so with firearms.

And this is just the story posted, only really telling one side with little actual detail, but is just enough for some to make assumptions about. Remember what assume stands for.

Maybe his lawyer can post all the disclosure he has for everyone to read, and then judge what really went down and why. Bet ya his lawyer won't be doing that anytime soon.

[gatorhunter]

Every profession has some employees that are better than others and members that should not be in those professions. However, one or even 50 bad doctors don't make them all or even a majority bad. So the possibility that one or 50 officers in a field that occupies over ten thousand in our country may stray over a line that is always moving does not give the rest of their colleagues a "bad name!"

Where do all you conspiracy theorists come from? You obviously don't live in the same Canada that I live in.

[elkhunter11]

The experienced police officer on this board is catching heck for assuming that the biker did something to deserve it. You are assuming that he did not.

Isn't our legal system supposed to be based on the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty? As such, I am assuming that he is innocent until he is proven guilty.

[gatorhunter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Isn't our legal system supposed to be based on the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty? As such, I am assuming that he is innocent until he is proven guilty.

And as I stated in the general discussion section, if one believes that a life long biker gang member and leader is innocent until proven guilty then so are the 4 mounties who responded to a disturbance at a B.C. airport.

[elkhunter11]

if one believes that a life long biker gang member and leader is innocent until proven guilty then so are the 4 mounties who responded to a disturbance at a B.C. airport.

And they will finally get the chance to defend themselves in court. The may have gotten away with everything else, but at least they are now formally being charged with perjury. I for one don't like their chances of being found not guilty of the charges, given what the tapes show. Hopefully convictions will end their careers.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=6835839

[super7mag]

If that is truly the case come up with something better then an unsafe storage charge. taht is bs. 5 hrs at gun point I'd say they were looking for more then a pos canadain tire gun cabinet, but did not find it.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Elko

If this happened well over a year ago, why the story right now, perhaps just trying to inflame the situation, trying to drum up more support for killing the long gun registry. Goto wonder at that.

And what does the guy being 76 really have to do with it? He can't be a dangerous guy at 76, can't pull the trigger maybe. I have seen and worked with some 76 yr old men, welders or farmers mostly that were still pretty strong tough men, and certainly could be as dangerous or even more so with firearms.

And this is just the story posted, only really telling one side with little actual detail, but is just enough for some to make assumptions about. Remember what assume stands for.

Maybe his lawyer can post all the disclosure he has for everyone to read, and then judge what really went down and why. Bet ya his lawyer won't be doing that anytime soon.

This story as well all the other atrocities being perpetrated by the police in the GTA were posted on the Canadian Firearms Digest when they occured.

This is the Alberta Outdoorsman Forum.

The people on this forum are "outdoors oriented".

This forum is not a police watch forum, but given the constant number of brutal heinous police criminal acts against innocent citizens that are occuring these days, the cases are even reaching us little humble folk.

Therefore, Join the Canadian Firearms Digest, and you will be given a complete explanation with references to this case.



Have Fun

[silver]

Originally Posted by crunchiespg

i want the end of C68 as much as anyone. but i'm also a LEO. and this article is obviously missing something huge. because we dont go a raid a house without a reason.

and i hate to say it, but any POS motorcycle gang member probably deserves it..

like all statistics and news reports, they show exactly what the author wants them to show and little more.

With an attitude like that, and I had to deal with you, I would click my heels together, and raise my right arm. Maybe you and Sargeant Pepper should go away together and leave this world for the human race.