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  #31  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:24 PM
Jezter Jezter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wags View Post
IMO, private sales are the more risky, as there are no regulations governing the sales. You have no protection for yourself. But again, the more homework you do, the more intelligent decision you will be able to make.

GL on your vehicle hunt.

Cheers
I find this a really odd reason but each to their own I guess.
I don't think there are any difference in "regulations governing the sales" or any regulations at all whether its private or through a dealer.
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dumoulin View Post
I'd look into lease buy backs. I always had good luck that way. You pay a tad more but the risks are lower.
This is actually something that I try to avoid. In my experience when somebody owns something they take care of it and may invariably sell a good used vehicle.

I have 3 friends that leased vehicles and did the only oil change on the vehicle a week before returning it. I just shake my head as a mechanic, and they all have told me basically the same thing. "Why should I pay to change oil if I'm just giving it back." It will last without blowing up, and if it does its warranty and they just claim they do their own oil changes and have no receipts.
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jezter View Post
i find this a really odd reason but each to their own i guess.
I don't think there are any difference in "regulations governing the sales" or any regulations at all whether its private or through a dealer.
amvic
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  #34  
Old 02-03-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Redfrog View Post
Might want to check your math. $2500 profit is not a 25% markup on $7500.
Yes you're right, i was basing it on a 10000 selling price, minus 7500 cost for 2500 profit.

Even at 32. whatever percent markup, doesn't mean you can offer 50% off the asking and expect it to be a fair offer. Even if the dealer has a 50% markup, they still require to make a profit.

The important thing i'm trying to illustrate is to focus on is fair market value, don't focus on percentages as there is no rhyme or reason to how much a vehicle will ultimately cost the business.

Cheers
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  #35  
Old 02-03-2014, 01:34 PM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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As is obvious by this thread, there are hundreds of different opinions..

A couple of points..

I've had good luck with rental returns.. (I know figure that one out),

I personally lease our family hauler, the other 2 are paid for. I don't treat the lease vehicle any different than my owned vehicle (I am paying for it, why wouldn't I take car of it). I suspect HyperMOA's friends would treat their owned vehicles the same way. Trust me, I know people like he's talking about. No matter if they lease or own they don't care.

Next, DO YOUR RESEARCH.. you will know what is fair market value. My BIL lowballs everyone, and somehow manages to get the deals. Although I'm pretty sure he's ****ed off alot of the sellers, and they felt used.

I have personally found you can find better "deals" buying from the previous owner, as they usually have the new vehicle right there. IE, there's emotion/economics tied into the sale. With a dealership, none of that applies.
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  #36  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:40 AM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is online now
 
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Originally Posted by JB_AOL View Post
I personally lease our family hauler, the other 2 are paid for. I don't treat the lease vehicle any different than my owned vehicle (I am paying for it, why wouldn't I take car of it). I suspect HyperMOA's friends would treat their owned vehicles the same way. Trust me, I know people like he's talking about. No matter if they lease or own they don't care.
You pay for it but you never own anything on that vehicle. You essentially rent it. My buddies know this and they don't treat it worth a damn. However their other equipment they baby. The one buddy of mine maintains his motorcycle to a level that would make any dealer green with envy. One of them is exactly as you stated but not all of them.
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  #37  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
You pay for it but you never own anything on that vehicle. You essentially rent it. My buddies know this and they don't treat it worth a damn. However their other equipment they baby. The one buddy of mine maintains his motorcycle to a level that would make any dealer green with envy. One of them is exactly as you stated but not all of them.
That's no different than a loan, until that car is paid off, you are renting it. But instead of a renting a portion of the car, with a loan you are renting the whole car.

Everybody's different, I maintain all my vehicles properly no matter if it's paid for or not. You're only hurting yourself in the end. All of my leases, I have bought out, and sold at FMV and came away with a good chunk of change. Whoever just turns in a lease, clearly doesn't understand how to work the system, or they just enjoy throwing away money.
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:58 AM
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I've learned that some ppl get emotionally attached to their trucks. Holy!
With a dealership it's all about money. I can work with that and reason a lot more.
Im having a hard time justifying 5g more on a comparable truck just because it has a pto option off the trans and overload springs.

This truck shopping is a crazy game.
I've been looking for about a year.

It would take a lot of auctions to find the truck I want. And then you know the possibilities of an auction vehicle.
For some reason I like the 6 litre.
Are there known problems with this choice?
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  #39  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:16 AM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dacotensis View Post
I've learned that some ppl get emotionally attached to their trucks. Holy!
With a dealership it's all about money. I can work with that and reason a lot more.
Im having a hard time justifying 5g more on a comparable truck just because it has a pto option off the trans and overload springs.

This truck shopping is a crazy game.
I've been looking for about a year.

It would take a lot of auctions to find the truck I want. And then you know the possibilities of an auction vehicle.
For some reason I like the 6 litre.
Are there known problems with this choice?
Yes it does take time, and usually you have to be the first person to see the ad, or else it's gone. It took me 4 months of constant looking to locate my non-oilfield low km, low hr truck. I missed out on about half a dozen, as I couldn't leave work to go check them out. Found out that some people were EMT'ing deposits sight unseen.

Which 6L? Ford Diesel? or GMC gas?
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  #40  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:19 AM
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Gmc gas. I hate the smell of diesel fumes. Really turn my stomach.

Yes, some guys are Johnny on the spot with some of these trucks.
You blink, you miss.
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  #41  
Old 02-04-2014, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dacotensis View Post
Gmc gas. I hate the smell of diesel fumes. Really turn my stomach.

Yes, some guys are Johnny on the spot with some of these trucks.
You blink, you miss.
The 6 liter Gm gas is fairly bullet-proof. A HUGE gas pig though. I have an 03 with the 6 liter and its a good engine, just wish it got better mileage.
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  #42  
Old 02-04-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JB_AOL View Post
That's no different than a loan, until that car is paid off, you are renting it. But instead of a renting a portion of the car, with a loan you are renting the whole car.

Everybody's different, I maintain all my vehicles properly no matter if it's paid for or not. You're only hurting yourself in the end. All of my leases, I have bought out, and sold at FMV and came away with a good chunk of change. Whoever just turns in a lease, clearly doesn't understand how to work the system, or they just enjoy throwing away money.
Just like your house every mortgage payment you own one more stud in your house. With a car payment you own one more bolt with each payment. After 3 years of leasing you still own nothing but you have the option to own.

My friends lease their vehicle for work and write-off the expense and that is the only reason they lease. They hand them back and take a new lease at every lease termination.

I am a mechanic, you do not even remotely have to lecture me on maintenance. I am a huge advocate of proper maintenance and proactive repairs. All I am stating is that leased vehicles I avoid. Would I buy yours? Certainly, but yours don't come up for buy-back do they? Now do my friends vehicles come up for buy-back? Yes, yes they do.

Not arguing about maintenance, just stating that I have never met someone who intentionally neglects a vehicle they own, however I know a few guys that intentionally neglect their "rented mules".
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  #43  
Old 02-04-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wags View Post
amvic
You mean these guys?? LMAO!!

Alberta auto industry watchdog fires senior investigators
Agency failing to protect vehicle buyers, says consumer advocate


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...tors-1.1312901

Lets get one thing straight.. In your example you more than likely used retail on parts and labor. There is no way a dealer is paying retail on parts and their own labor to bring a vehicle up to a minimum spec. Retail on parts is usually a 100-150% mark up on dealer cost.

Most auto dealers including the used ones will pick up their inventory from an auction and resell it on their lots.

There is solid advice on here for dealing. Write your offer on your business card and walk away. Let the manager know the offer expires at a certain time at the end of the day. Never leave a cheque. You can also look at going to the states to pick up the vehicle. Get the maintenance and repairs done down there first. You are paying pennies on the dollar for that.

Once you factor in the dealers, the GST on used, plus the other garbage they throw in for charges why would anyone want to buy from a dealer?

If one is adamant about purchasing from a dealer talk to the dealer at the beginning of the month and make your purchase near the end of the month. The sales person and dealer are hungry to make the sale near the end of the month.

Kijiji or auctions is the way to go.
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  #44  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:01 PM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
Just like your house every mortgage payment you own one more stud in your house. With a car payment you own one more bolt with each payment. After 3 years of leasing you still own nothing but you have the option to own.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote:
I am a mechanic, you do not even remotely have to lecture me on maintenance. snip...
Not arguing about maintenance, just stating that I have never met someone who intentionally neglects a vehicle they own, however I know a few guys that intentionally neglect their "rented mules".
Sorry, I wasn't lecturing you, I think this is what you we're refering to
Quote:
You're only hurting yourself in the end.
I was using "you're" in the general public sense, not you directly.
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  #45  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dacotensis View Post
Gmc gas. I hate the smell of diesel fumes. Really turn my stomach.

Yes, some guys are Johnny on the spot with some of these trucks.
You blink, you miss.
Had a 99 silverado, pulling my 27.5 ft fifth wheel and 14 foot tinny, I thought that poor 6 liter was gonna blow up seemed to constantly run over 3000 rpm when towing,and tranny would up and down shift a million times and was a pig from airdrie to red lodge in Bowden back to airdrie tank of gas.... 80 l tank didn't get 300 kms at most times never mind in a cross wind, got rid of the gas jobber for my diesel... However it was the most comfortable ride I had....

Last edited by bubba 96; 02-04-2014 at 02:30 PM.
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  #46  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:33 PM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bubba 96 View Post
Had a 99 silverado, pulling my 27.5 ft fifth wheel and 14 foot tinny, I thought that poor 6 liter was gonna blow up seemed to constantly run over 3000 rpm when towing, and was a pig from airdrie to red lodge in Bowden back to airdrie tank of gas.... 80 l tank didn't get 300 kms at most times never mind in a cross wind, got rid of the gas jobber for my diesel... However it was the most comfortable ride I had...
What's wrong with running over 3000 rpm? Go look at your torque curve. Gassers make their peak tq/hp in the 4500-5000 range. Let'r rev.

I have 2003 1500HD and for the most part it tows very good, there's long climbs I wish I had diesel, but that's only towing. I have had no issues with mine.
I know the newer 6L with the 6spd are supposed to be worlds better than what I have.
MPG.. Well, it's a fullsize truck.
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  #47  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JB_AOL View Post
What's wrong with running over 3000 rpm? Go look at your torque curve. Gassers make their peak tq/hp in the 4500-5000 range. Let'r rev.

I have 2003 1500HD and for the most part it tows very good, there's long climbs I wish I had diesel, but that's only towing. I have had no issues with mine.
I know the newer 6L with the 6spd are supposed to be worlds better than what I have.
MPG.. Well, it's a fullsize truck.
Because it was running high rpms thing sounded like it was going to blow, so you want a gasser driving down the hwy at 4500 to 5000 rpm, you will be lucky to get 200 k's to a tank...At 105 km on flat should not be that high of rpms..
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  #48  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NEWB View Post
You mean these guys?? LMAO!!

Alberta auto industry watchdog fires senior investigators
Agency failing to protect vehicle buyers, says consumer advocate


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...tors-1.1312901

Lets get one thing straight.. In your example you more than likely used retail on parts and labor. There is no way a dealer is paying retail on parts and their own labor to bring a vehicle up to a minimum spec. Retail on parts is usually a 100-150% mark up on dealer cost.

Most auto dealers including the used ones will pick up their inventory from an auction and resell it on their lots.

There is solid advice on here for dealing. Write your offer on your business card and walk away. Let the manager know the offer expires at a certain time at the end of the day. Never leave a cheque. You can also look at going to the states to pick up the vehicle. Get the maintenance and repairs done down there first. You are paying pennies on the dollar for that.

Once you factor in the dealers, the GST on used, plus the other garbage they throw in for charges why would anyone want to buy from a dealer?

If one is adamant about purchasing from a dealer talk to the dealer at the beginning of the month and make your purchase near the end of the month. The sales person and dealer are hungry to make the sale near the end of the month.

Kijiji or auctions is the way to go.
Yes those guys. I believe i also mentioned that in any organization, there are good and bad.

My example was hypothetical - they were just numbers. The mark-up is irrelevant, my example is what was paid for the vehicle. Even if the dealer that sells the car gets it fixed at the same dealership, the Service charges the Sales dept. for the charges, so it is a cost against the vehicle.

Yes, most dealers buy from auctions, as that is where most vehicles are sold. Makes sense really. I can counter your other points as well, but at the end of the day, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

What I can say is that writing your offer on a card and walking away wont' do you much better than sitting there and negotiating. If it's lower than the cost into the vehicle, most dealers won't accept it - beginning, middle or end of month. The only time they'll lose money on a vehicle is if the vehicle has been sitting on the lot for an extended period of time - the interest is costing the dealer.

But as I said, the best thing you can do is some research. I was only offering my 2 cents based on years in the industry.

Cheers
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Last edited by wags; 02-04-2014 at 02:58 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:54 PM
JB_AOL JB_AOL is offline
 
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Because it was running high rpms thing sounded like it was going to blow, so you want a gasser driving down the hwy at 4500 to 5000 rpm, you will be lucky to get 200 k's to a tank...At 105 km on flat should not be that high of rpms..
lol.. Choose one, speed/mpg.

Why shouldn't it be revving 3000rpm @ 105 towing? You know how much the truck is working with two trailers?
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  #50  
Old 02-04-2014, 03:36 PM
skidderman skidderman is offline
 
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The 6 liter GMC gas is a reliable engine. As others said a gas guzzler though. I still have my 1998 454. Yes it uses a lot of gas but I don't have the maintenance issues of a diesel and I am not paying 20 cents a liter more for fuel. Sure a diesel would be nice but not all of us can justify the cost. I've seen the repair bills for diesels & in fact have put many hrs working on them. Nothing cheap about them. My turbo will never get sucked into my engine like my buddy's did at 19k.
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  #51  
Old 02-04-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JB_AOL View Post
lol.. Choose one, speed/mpg.

Why shouldn't it be revving 3000rpm @ 105 towing? You know how much the truck is working with two trailers?
Ya less than 8000 lbs rv 7500 lb boat under 500 it's a 14 foot tinny with 15 hp motor.....so second tr is pretty much not an issue... So yup workin as much as pullin an average size rv.
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  #52  
Old 02-04-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bubba 96 View Post
Had a 99 silverado, pulling my 27.5 ft fifth wheel and 14 foot tinny, I thought that poor 6 liter was gonna blow up seemed to constantly run over 3000 rpm when towing,and tranny would up and down shift a million times and was a pig from airdrie to red lodge in Bowden back to airdrie tank of gas.... 80 l tank didn't get 300 kms at most times never mind in a cross wind, got rid of the gas jobber for my diesel... However it was the most comfortable ride I had....


This is exactly how my friend describes his 04 GMC 6.0L It also does the high rev and stays at high rev thing when pulling and coming off a hill, he has to tap the brakes to get it to idle down. Plus the gauge cluster problems. Another friend had one and he owned a mechanic shop. He did everything he could as far as upgrades etc to get the mileage up. Nothing worked. Nice trucks, pigs on fuel seems to be what everyone says.
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  #53  
Old 02-04-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by skidderman View Post
The 6 liter GMC gas is a reliable engine. As others said a gas guzzler though. I still have my 1998 454. Yes it uses a lot of gas but I don't have the maintenance issues of a diesel and I am not paying 20 cents a liter more for fuel. Sure a diesel would be nice but not all of us can justify the cost. I've seen the repair bills for diesels & in fact have put many hrs working on them. Nothing cheap about them. My turbo will never get sucked into my engine like my buddy's did at 19k.
I have never bothered to check my economy on my 454 in my 96 Sierra.
I just put fuel in as needed. I'm pulling some pretty big loads. 7 ton range on some of them.
Full load with 125 litres will get me about 260 km on a flat. Doing the speed limit.
I love hearing that engine kick in and rev out to the red line when I'm going up hill
Fuel economy? What's that?

I've heard the 6 when pulling is getting about 8mpg. And around 14 when not pulling.
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  #54  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:04 PM
kinwahkly kinwahkly is offline
 
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Some of the best buys are from Franchised dealers, they get most of the inventory from new car trades and each vehicle is put thru an inspection, shop around, know youre market
make a square offer, you would be surprised. I should know Ive been working at one for the past 25 years.

Last edited by kinwahkly; 02-04-2014 at 08:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #55  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kinwahkly View Post
Some of the best buys are from Franchised dealers, they get most of the inventory from new car trades and each vehicle is put thru an inspection, shop around, know youre market
make a square offer, you would be surprised. I should know Ive been working at one for the past 25 years.
Ok. Thanks, but what kind of price movement is there?
20-30% ?
Is that square?
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  #56  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Badgoodguy Badgoodguy is offline
 
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I sell for a living in GP and the very very best advise I will give anyone is to get to know the salesman as a friend if and when you can

Plain and Simple
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  #57  
Old 02-05-2014, 05:21 AM
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Check, newcarselloff.com
Dealers selling last years new and used cars and trucks at discount prices. Can save 10 - 40% off suggested list price of a new truck. Some great deals there. Worth a few mins to look at. Saw a new 2013 truck there that I would have payed the same price today that I payed in 2004 for my truck.
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  #58  
Old 02-05-2014, 09:12 AM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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What about buying a piece of construction equipment from a used lot. Is 25%-30% reasonable to knock off the price?
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  #59  
Old 02-05-2014, 01:55 PM
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