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  #31  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
How many deer have you shot on a city street?
I've shot a steer on a city street. Steer escaped the local butcher shop, took a few runs at passing cars. Cop shot one ear off with 12 gauge. When I showed up, the cop left. He wanted no part of the finish.

I waited until his head was down a bit, so a miss would be absorbed in the body. No miss, one shot with a .22 mag.

Why didn't the cop stand above the downed deer, at a distance of 6 feet, & shoot the apex of the eyes & ears. Or phone Chuck, or anyone proficient. ASIRT said it took 15 minutes driving back & forth over it to kill it. Unacceptable.
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  #32  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
He was told not to. He obeyed a direct order to not discharge his firearm at the deer.
Were did you hear/read that?
  #33  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
I think they use Me, Myself and Irene as their training video...
If so he should have been prepared to club the poor thing to death with a double-ended dong...
  #34  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK View Post
I wonder if this wasn’t a cop, but one of us (and maybe he is) would it have received the same attention and opinions.
I wonder if this wasn't a cop, but one of us (and maybe he is), would we be charged for animal abuse.
  #35  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:44 PM
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RWS makes a frangible shotgun load designed for breaching applications, one of those at close range to the head would certainly be a quick kill with zero possibility of the projectile going AWOL. Basically a pressed copper powder slug that desintegrates upon impact. I have a few boxes but have not tested them on anything.
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  #36  
Old 06-27-2019, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by urban rednek View Post
MooseRiverTrapper you'd best stay down by the river.
I’ve hopped out of the truck and grabbed the axe a few times. But your living in make believe land with your buddies on this thread. When you see something suffering you make the decision to speed up the process or try help in live.
  #37  
Old 06-27-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Do you seriously think his knife would have garnered any less negative attention?

What training do you recommend? Where does this training take place? Do we use illustrations? How do we practice?
I tried to stay out of this one, but you are wrong. The absolute very best tool for this was his knife. The animal is done inside a minute tops. Its not trying to run away as it’s rolled over several times. Most people would’ve never notice him even do it.

I agree with you about him not being malicious, but daft for sure. Have you never finished off a deer with a knife before? It’s not brutal or inhumane. The problem with the ASIRT investigation is ridiculous to say the knife was not the best option. Now future LEO will be wary to use one because an ASIRT investigation deems it impractical. Are you kidding me??!?!?!

I had Edmonton city police waiting to put down a hit deer laying against my fence directly across from a school. I asked them why they weren’t dealing with the animal. It was a whole bunch of nonsense because they needed a “service rifle” and contact the school as to the shots. I grabbed my pocket folder and finished it off while they tried to tell me to leave it alone. I told them to arrest me then. Best tool for the job. Full stop. Period.
  #38  
Old 06-27-2019, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Do you seriously think his knife would have garnered any less negative attention?

What training do you recommend? Where does this training take place? Do we use illustrations? How do we practice?
That turned more rant than expected. To be clear I think the officer feels bad about it. I think he would do things differently today. I don’t think he should be strung-up. However ASIRT should’ve placed the blame for using possibly the worst tool at his disposal. There should have been fault pointed out at his decision making. As I said so now in future incidents officers will be hesitant to use their knife as ASIRT deemed it impractical, when in fact it’s their best choice if they feel a firearm is unsafe.

Not sure if that concept came out of my last post.
  #39  
Old 06-27-2019, 01:15 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is online now
 
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I tried to stay out of this one, but you are wrong. The absolute very best tool for this was his knife. The animal is done inside a minute tops. Its not trying to run away as it’s rolled over several times. Most people would’ve never notice him even do it.

I agree with you about him not being malicious, but daft for sure. Have you never finished off a deer with a knife before? It’s not brutal or inhumane. The problem with the ASIRT investigation is ridiculous to say the knife was not the best option. Now future LEO will be wary to use one because an ASIRT investigation deems it impractical. Are you kidding me??!?!?!

I had Edmonton city police waiting to put down a hit deer laying against my fence directly across from a school. I asked them why they weren’t dealing with the animal. It was a whole bunch of nonsense because they needed a “service rifle” and contact the school as to the shots. I grabbed my pocket folder and finished it off while they tried to tell me to leave it alone. I told them to arrest me then. Best tool for the job. Full stop. Period.
Great story. Then the boys will have something to complain about because headline reads officer carves deer head off like a turkey with surgical precision. No pleasing all the armchair warriors.
  #40  
Old 06-27-2019, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK View Post
What do you do for work again?

If you aren’t capable of doing said task you aren’t much of an employee.

Oh, you did what you felt was right given the circumstances and you provided a reasonable explanation,
Well I don’t agree I think you should be fired immediately.

As a local armchair expert on everything I feel that I am able to pass judgment on something that I know little if anything about.
So I have no idea how to do your job, but I’m going to judge you for it anyways.
In a trades position you may be fired for your scenario above. At a minimum you would be called out for your mistakes. Likely somebody would point out your fault; and tell you how to correct the mistake and prevent it from happening again. Then you’d likely deal with having to repair/replace the mistake.

So if I don’t torque rod bolts on an engine at work and it sends rods through the block. ASIRT doesn’t come and sugarcoat the situation and tell me there was no good tool available to torque those rod bolts with an absolve me of all responsibility. That is snowflake nonsense. No my employer would have meetings with me and real consequences would be faced by myself. From my mistake it would serve as a valuable reminder for the rest of my career and many who work with me as well.

I don’t think he needs to be fired. He does have to admit to making a poor choice though. He needs to own that; he did make a poor choice. This isn’t a knock on LEO. It’s a knock on one very bad decision.
  #41  
Old 06-27-2019, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
Great story. Then the boys will have something to complain about because headline reads officer carves deer head off like a turkey with surgical precision. No pleasing all the armchair warriors.
Do you think he needs to carve off a head to cut a jugular? I guess i do it wrong. Had he used his knife there would be no armchair heroes; because none of us would’ve ever heard about this incident.

Come on, step back and use some perspective here.

If you really believe an F150 (if I remember from the first time I read the story) is a better tool than his knife we may as well be done talking with each other. I mean we would be so far apart it is inconceivable that we could ever agree on one another’s methods.

Honestly I’ve seen many deer struck at 120kph and not die. I’ve also dispatched many on the side of the road with my knife. None walk away from my knife.
  #42  
Old 06-27-2019, 02:40 AM
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Meh....it’s Dead. And probably cares less than I do the method chosen. A bullet usually kills faster than an arrow. Yet thousands choose the arrow.
A dump truck dropped from 100 feet onto an animals head kills the fastest. Yet nobody does it. Even though it’s the most humane.
He got the job done. Not the way I would of done it. But he may not of had access to a dump truck.

Last edited by Talking moose; 06-27-2019 at 02:48 AM.
  #43  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:25 AM
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BESIDES, you don't know who gave him the orders. I can tell you that for him to draw his gun, the paper work is great hassle.
  #44  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK View Post
And there shouldn’t be.

Was it the best option, probably not, but even letting it die naturally would have been wrong, or using his firearm, knife or baton.


Lessons learned and I’m sure the death threats this man received were a little far.

I wonder if this wasn’t a cop, but one of us (and maybe he is) would it have received the same attention and opinions.
Exactly.....
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  #45  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pitw View Post
Gotta agree with ETOWNCANUCK on this one. Just cause he didn't know what he was doing doesn't mean he didn't at least try to do what was right. I see folk all the time who have no clue what they are doing but there are others who do nothing and I don't see that. So just by trying to do the right thing I'll give this fella a pass.
X2 It was a gong show, but it was not malicious. People with years of life experience would have done things differently, but given the out come I'm sure he would too. Finding a suffering animal could overwhelm a young inexperienced person. We tend to see things through the filter of our own experiences, and what might be a no brainer for us could be a tough decision for someone else.
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  #46  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:58 AM
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Anyone who has watched the Kehoe brothers attempted takedown should be relieved this cop and 99% of the rest never discharge their guns.

Better options might have been to take the deer to the nearest coffee shop and cram him full of doughnuts and coffee until he expired, or take him back to the station and force him to fill out paperwork until he died of boredom.

We trust cops to exercise good judgement. This guy failed the test. Sometimes Darwin was wrong.
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  #47  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1 View Post
I've shot a steer on a city street. Steer escaped the local butcher shop, took a few runs at passing cars. Cop shot one ear off with 12 gauge. When I showed up, the cop left. He wanted no part of the finish.

I waited until his head was down a bit, so a miss would be absorbed in the body. No miss, one shot with a .22 mag.

Why didn't the cop stand above the downed deer, at a distance of 6 feet, & shoot the apex of the eyes & ears. Or phone Chuck, or anyone proficient. ASIRT said it took 15 minutes driving back & forth over it to kill it. Unacceptable.
Bingo!!
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  #48  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
I tried to stay out of this one, but you are wrong. The absolute very best tool for this was his knife. The animal is done inside a minute tops. Its not trying to run away as it’s rolled over several times. Most people would’ve never notice him even do it.

I agree with you about him not being malicious, but daft for sure. Have you never finished off a deer with a knife before? It’s not brutal or inhumane. The problem with the ASIRT investigation is ridiculous to say the knife was not the best option. Now future LEO will be wary to use one because an ASIRT investigation deems it impractical. Are you kidding me??!?!?!

I had Edmonton city police waiting to put down a hit deer laying against my fence directly across from a school. I asked them why they weren’t dealing with the animal. It was a whole bunch of nonsense because they needed a “service rifle” and contact the school as to the shots. I grabbed my pocket folder and finished it off while they tried to tell me to leave it alone. I told them to arrest me then. Best tool for the job. Full stop. Period.
It doesn’t really matter what he used. There would still be an outcry.
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  #49  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
It doesn’t really matter what he used. There would still be an outcry.
Yep! Someone will always whine
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  #50  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:20 AM
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I chuckled when the article said he had many weapons at his disposal including a Batton. Could you imagine police on the side of the road beating the crap out of wildlife with a stick?
  #51  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Husty View Post
I chuckled when the article said he had many weapons at his disposal including a Batton. Could you imagine police on the side of the road beating the crap out of wildlife with a stick?
No doubt. And has anyone here seen an animal killed by cutting its throat? It’s an awful thing to witness.
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  #52  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
It doesn’t really matter what he used. There would still be an outcry.
Two people complaining garners exactly zero attention. The reason we are even discussing this is because the vast majority of people recognize it as a very poor decision.

I agree there will always be whiners, but come on. Can you honestly tell me there would’ve been this outcry from the 2 seconds to slit a throat and the subsequent 11 seconds of bleeding?

He made a poor decision at work. Would you call me out if I made a poor decision under your employ? Does he deserve death threats; certainly not. Does he deserve to be fired; certainly not. Does he need to recognize he made a bad decision that day; he certainly does.
  #53  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
I’ve hopped out of the truck and grabbed the axe a few times. But your living in make believe land with your buddies on this thread. When you see something suffering you make the decision to speed up the process or try help in live.
Your lack of reading comprehension is sadly apparent; do I need to use simpler words from now on?
For the record, the travesty in this case that a person who chose to drive over a wounded deer 6 times instead of killing it quickly and reasonably humanely, is not being charged with cruelty to animals. Presumably because he was just trying to do the right thing, without any training, so it wasn't his fault. We (society in general) should all be so lucky.

What do you think would of happened if that had been you? or me? or Chuck? that was filmed performing this inhumane act?

FTR- you don't need to school me in 'How to make things dead".
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  #54  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:46 AM
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I really can’t believe the press this is getting, especially on this forum. An officer dispatched an injured deer. Clearly he had a job to do and no clue on how to do it and with nobody there to tell him how. Some idiot filmed it an decided to go public with it and fed the trolls.

It was a deer........
  #55  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
No doubt. And has anyone here seen an animal killed by cutting its throat? It’s an awful thing to witness.
Explain to me how it’s more awful than a gunshot to the head?

Explain how it’s more awful than driving over it’s legs until it dies?

Explain to me how it’s worse than being burned to death? (You’d likely be defending that action had it been his course of action that day.)

If you think it’s so awful I have to conclude you’ve never done it.
  #56  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:53 AM
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Deer are like fleas.

How do people think the deer was injured in the first place? By a tricycle? It got hit.

Cop made a poor decision if indeed he made the decision. Big deal. Lots of cops will make poor decisions today too.

Glad people don't film and post all my dumb decisions.
  #57  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
No doubt. And has anyone here seen an animal killed by cutting its throat? It’s an awful thing to witness.
Thats my uncles preferred way to finish off game to save money on ammo. Seen it lots I would only do it if I were out of ammo. Game that is still alive gets another one in the chest from me, seems the most ethical.
  #58  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Meh....it’s Dead. And probably cares less than I do the method chosen. A bullet usually kills faster than an arrow. Yet thousands choose the arrow.
A dump truck dropped from 100 feet onto an animals head kills the fastest. Yet nobody does it. Even though it’s the most humane.
He got the job done. Not the way I would of done it. But he may not of had access to a dump truck.
How does a a dump truck travelling at 32 FPS kill faster than a bullet at say 4100 FPS? If you want to be ridiculous please make the ridiculousness realistic. The fastest would be to dive an SR-71 at full afterburner from 100,000 feet onto it.

(Not too sure about that speed in FPS to be honest, but I think you get what I’m doing here.)
  #59  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:59 AM
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The deer was injured by a vehicle , likely traveling much faster than the officer driving over it. It was likely hit by a part of the vehicle much more solid than rubber tires. So if that collision only injured the deer, how would you expect a rubber tire rolling over it at slow speed to kill it quickly? If he had parked with a tire on the deer's chest, at least it would have suffocated, from not being able to breathe. I don't believe that the officer was being malicious, I believe that it was simply a matter of him being totally clueless, which is something I don't think is acceptable for someone who is allowed to carry firearms, into possible life and death situations.
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  #60  
Old 06-27-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pitw View Post
Gotta agree with ETOWNCANUCK on this one. Just cause he didn't know what he was doing doesn't mean he didn't at least try to do what was right. I see folk all the time who have no clue what they are doing but there are others who do nothing and I don't see that. So just by trying to do the right thing I'll give this fella a pass.
X2.....

Why didn't he call a supervisor?
Are they properly trained in dispatching an animal?
This is a policy issue. A 12 gauge is normally the common gun of choice for dispatching an animal for LEO's.

In his own mind I think he did what he had to do. I'll bet moving forward their policy and training will see some upgrading.....IMHO
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