Wainwright 2019

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by ADHAM

If this is the case i would support any charges against this group as well not allow them to keep there harvest and be not allowed to any army base for hunting this bs need to stop there just killing it for every other respectful fn hunters!!!


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I agree with you if what they are doing is infact illegal.
But the base managers may be ok with it if they previously registered?
I'm not sure and that's why I asked.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Sooner

FN already have sole access to all crown(never gonna give that up), military bases(sure helped to clean out Suffield) and have begun hunting national parks. Wait till the granola munchers see the buffalo, elk and moose in the back of pick ups coming out of Elk Island as they drive in lol.

you do not have to be a granola muncher to know that this is not right national parks are where you go to see wild life at it finest not sure why anyone would want to hunt in park

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

No they didn't. I said the the one group had stated their intention to do so given the opportunity.
Got me thinking about the legality of what they were doing.

So if they are traveling the highway looking for game animals, where can they legally shoot from? If the land is fenced, and they shoot from the road or ditch they are violating the regulations, if they cross the fence to shoot, they are entering the base at at place they aren't allowed to. Either way, they would be causing the bullet or arrow to enter the property, while they are not signed in, and being signed in, is a condition of being granted permission to hunt there.

[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I agree with you if what they are doing is infact illegal.

But the base managers may be ok with it if they previously registered?

I'm not sure and that's why I asked.

Yeah im not sure about this one too

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[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by JDK71

you do not have to be a granola muncher to know that this is not right national parks are where you go to see wild life at it finest not sure why anyone would want to hunt in park

Thats what provincial park been doing to keep wild animals population under control and to prevent disease thats gonna kill all the animals but its was harder then what the gentlemen think just like cooking lake provincial park everything should be done in foot even retrieving the animal and each fn member only allowed one animal for the year and there issued tags


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[JDK71]

Originally Posted by ADHAM

Thats what provincial park been doing to keep wild animals population under control and to prevent disease thats gonna kill all the animals but its was harder then what the gentlemen think just like cooking lake provincial park everything should be done in foot even retrieving the animal and each fn member only allowed one animal for the year and there issued tags


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just like shooting ducks in a barrel

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Sooner

FN already have sole access to all crown(never gonna give that up), military bases(sure helped to clean out Suffield) and have begun hunting national parks. Wait till the granola munchers see the buffalo, elk and moose in the back of pick ups coming out of Elk Island as they drive in lol.

If you actually look into it I think you will find that the natives DO NOT have sole access to military bases, they are there only by the good graces of the CAF .
Otherwise they would be coming and going as they please and that will not happen for security and safety reasons.
Cat

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if they are traveling the highway looking for game animals, where can they legally shoot from? If the land is fenced, and they shoot from the road or ditch they are violating the regulations, if they cross the fence to shoot, they are entering the base at at place they aren't allowed to. Either way, they would be causing the bullet or arrow to enter the property, while they are not signed in, and being signed in, is a condition of being granted permission to hunt there.

I agree with everything you have said. And the bolded part is what I was hoping to confirm.
Unfortunately, just saying what they intended to do is not enough to have them charged. I wish I had more time to follow them around as judging by the tracks crossing the highway, I'm sure they were going to get an opportunity.

[rmk800]

Originally Posted by sns2

Here's the deal. I would guess that in the vast majority of forum members' minds, First Nations hunting rights/practices are a problematic issue on a number of levels. In addition, the new Metis rights are likely as problematic in peoples' minds.

Soooooo, if you are going to come on here and defend/talk about/post pictures of those rights in action, you better be prepared to meet with a great deal of resistance.

I also see nothing on this thread that meets the true definition of racism which is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race".

The passion and resentment around hunting practices has zero to do with color of skin or the inherent superiority of one group of people over another. It is however, about game management and inequality in a modern world which screams equality from every rooftop imaginable.

While you have every right to defend your right, don't get your undies in a bunch when people give you a reaction you weren't expecting.

I am assuming from this thread that you are Metis. If not, my apology. Well the gov't that changed the law did not run on a platform of expanding Metis hunting and fishing rights, nor did they hold consultations with Albertans who they are to represent. Thus I see nothing at all wrong with the statements that show frustration. They were not personal insults. And last time I checked, freedom of speech is still part of the charter.

I will tell you very clearly that my personal feeling, which btw I am allowed to express, is that no person in this country should have any preferential treatment when it comes to the harvesting of game, unless that person is status first nations, and then the exercise of those traditional rights needs to be carried out using the traditional methods that were used prior to John Cabot landing his ship off the coast of Buena Vista NFLD in 1497.

Please don't be surprised when you encounter opposition, and don't be surprised when a user with next to no history who comes on to this forum and starts race baiting and bashing the forum gets banned.

Very well put. I have no problem if it means they are limited to traditional methods...no firearms, no trucks/horses/power boats/atvs, no flashlights, no steel knives, no goretex, no modern camo, etc... You want to run around on foot with flint napped broadheads and hand made bows, wearing moccasins...all the power too you. Nothing spoils a group worse than a sense of entitlement.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

If you actually look into it I think you will find that the natives DO NOT have sole access to military bases, they are there only by the good graces of the CAF .
Otherwise they would be coming and going as they please and that will not happen for security and safety reasons.
Cat

Should have worded it better. If non natives can draw a tag and access a base hunt, they get in as well and usually have more choice at to what they can harvest.

[marky_mark]

Contrary to what some might think I have no problem with FN carrying out their traditions and harvesting and sharing the animal and so forth.

I do however, think that in this day and age. This can be done by buying a license and waiting for a draw just like everyone else.
If anything, it would give more meaning to the event. Since its only going to happen once every couple years.

Ive hunted at camp wainwright more than most and Ive never heard of the incidents like what has happened in the last 2 years. Is it ignorance or just thinking the rules dont apply to you? I dont know. But it sure is ruining a great thing

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Contrary to what some might think I have no problem with FN carrying out their traditions and harvesting and sharing the animal and so forth.

I do however, think that in this day and age. This can be done by buying a license and waiting for a draw just like everyone else.
If anything, it would give more meaning to the event. Since its only going to happen once every couple years.

Ive hunted at camp wainwright more than most and Ive never heard of the incidents like what has happened in the last 2 years. Is it ignorance or just thinking the rules dont apply to you? I dont know. But it sure is ruining a great thing

I hunt with Status natives regularly in the fall and more often than not when I was younger , and none of them had the attitude that we are seeing at Suffield or Wainright lately.
Back in the early 90's a status friend of mine was on base the same time we were during the BP hunt and no one seemed too have an issue with it.
II have no idea what has become of this World but I truly believe it has too do with a sense of entitlement of the younger generation, no matter the nationality or race.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I agree with everything you have said. And the bolded part is what I was hoping to confirm.
Unfortunately, just saying what they intended to do is not enough to have them charged. I wish I had more time to follow them around as judging by the tracks crossing the highway, I'm sure they were going to get an opportunity.

So given that their intentions were to do something illegal, do you honestly believe that these people signed out at the check station, then drove all the way around the base to get to the highway by the annex to road hunt, and that they would go all the way back around the base to the check station to sign in if they shot something from the road?

[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Contrary to what some might think I have no problem with FN carrying out their traditions and harvesting and sharing the animal and so forth.



I do however, think that in this day and age. This can be done by buying a license and waiting for a draw just like everyone else.

If anything, it would give more meaning to the event. Since its only going to happen once every couple years.



Ive hunted at camp wainwright more than most and Ive never heard of the incidents like what has happened in the last 2 years. Is it ignorance or just thinking the rules dont apply to you? I dont know. But it sure is ruining a great thing

I think camp wainright base hunt need to be more organized which means change the system like suffield to pre registration plus limit lets say they gonna give 100 moose tags 50 go to fn and 50 for regulated hunters and that will make there own priority system in bases like if a member hunted the base for this year cant hunt the base for next year he will have to give turn for other member!! Coz logically no one will be able to take there hunting rights away but at least try to make it more organized and force law inside base any one break law just get kicked out like any other hunter!! Is that fair enough?


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[Ronji]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Contrary to what some might think I have no problem with FN carrying out their traditions and harvesting and sharing the animal and so forth.

I do however, think that in this day and age. This can be done by buying a license and waiting for a draw just like everyone else.
If anything, it would give more meaning to the event. Since its only going to happen once every couple years.

Ive hunted at camp wainwright more than most and Ive never heard of the incidents like what has happened in the last 2 years. Is it ignorance or just thinking the rules dont apply to you? I dont know. But it sure is ruining a great thing

I have also hunted the base 5 times prior to this year. I was on the second rifle hunt.

Things have really gone south on this unique area to hunt with the attitudes, bashing, lack of morals, etc. etc.

I witnessed the sense of entitlement this year as a younger, "hunter" brought in his cow moose to register. He could not leave the check in station fast enough. And, he said, I quote " gotta get back out and get as many elk as possible before the whitey's get them"

My hunting partner was standing beside me with the biologists taking the samples. There was a great deal of eyes rolling after that comment.

It was a sad comment that reflects a bad set of values.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I hunt with Status natives regularly in the fall and more often than not when I was younger , and none of them had the attitude that we are seeing at Suffield or Wainright lately.
Back in the early 90's a status friend of mine was on base the same time we were during the BP hunt and no one seemed too have an issue with it.
II have no idea what has become of this World but I truly believe it has too do with a sense of entitlement of the younger generation, no matter the nationality or race.
Cat

Well put, as someone who falls in the younger generation I saw it first hand in school and I see it now at work with my colleagues my age, really sad actually...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Don’t kid yourselves there is a tonne of crap the non-FN hunters do on the base too. Shooting things they don’t have tags for, shooting too many things, showing up drunk or stoned or drinking or doing drugs while hunting. All sorts of BS happens there amongst all sorts of people.

LC

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ADHAM

I think camp wainright base hunt need to be more organized which means change the system like suffield to pre registration plus limit lets say they gonna give 100 moose tags 50 go to fn and 50 for regulated hunters and that will make there own priority system in bases like if a member hunted the base for this year cant hunt the base for next year he will have to give turn for other member!! Coz logically no one will be able to take there hunting rights away but at least try to make it more organized and force law inside base any one break law just get kicked out like any other hunter!! Is that fair enough?


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First off, If you think the camp wainwright hunt is unorganized you have a lot to learn.
Second, there’s no such thing as limiting fn hunters. That’s why there is a problem.
Third, theres no way your not fn or Métis or have some sort of ability to hunt without buying a tag or entering a draw

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So given that their intentions were to do something illegal, do you honestly believe that these people signed out at the check station, then drove all the way around the base to get to the highway by the annex to road hunt, and that they would go all the way back around the base to the check station to sign in if they shot something from the road?

I didn't ask and they didn't offer the info. I won't assume anything regarding that.
Believe it or not, I doubt that they came from the annex crossing as there was a range patrol truck parked there.
Not to say he was sitting there all morning...

What you're saying makes sense though so now I'm starting to think that maybe it's an inside/outside deal? Shoot something from the outside, call the guys inside.
Maybe not.

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Don’t kid yourselves there is a tonne of crap the non-FN hunters do on the base too. Shooting things they don’t have tags for, shooting too many things, showing up drunk or stoned or drinking or doing drugs while hunting. All sorts of BS happens there amongst all sorts of people.

LC

I had a guy blasting a moose 100 feet in front of my truck. F&W didnt do anything as the roads are not true roads that have the same rules for safely shooting over.

I guess a husband and wife team blasting a moose that runs in front of my truck isnt worthy of a ticket. Those idiots had no idea of the traffic on the road as they were hidden behind some brush.

[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

First off, If you think the camp wainwright hunt is unorganized you have a lot to learn.

Second, there’s no such thing as limiting fn hunters. That’s why there is a problem.

Third, theres no way your not fn or Métis or have some sort of ability to hunt without buying a tag or entering a draw

First off all i called it unorganized toward the fn hunters coz there is no limits like suffield which you agreed with me in ur second point!! I know u cant hunt without a tag unless ur metis/fn and that has nothing to do with my whole idea!!


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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I didn't ask and they didn't offer the info. I won't assume anything regarding that.
Believe it or not, I doubt that they came from the annex crossing as there was a range patrol truck parked there.
Not to say he was sitting there all morning...

What you're saying makes sense though so now I'm starting to think that maybe it's an inside/outside deal? Shoot something from the outside, call the guys inside.
Maybe not.

I have hunted the base twice for moose and six times for deer, I have never seen the annex crossing monitored before, so if they are now watching it, there must be a reason.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ADHAM

I think camp wainright base hunt need to be more organized which means change the system like suffield to pre registration plus limit lets say they gonna give 100 moose tags 50 go to fn and 50 for regulated hunters and that will make there own priority system in bases like if a member hunted the base for this year cant hunt the base for next year he will have to give turn for other member!! Coz logically no one will be able to take there hunting rights away but at least try to make it more organized and force law inside base any one break law just get kicked out like any other hunter!! Is that fair enough?


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If the FN population made up 50% 0f the population of Alberta that would be a fair split for the tags, but the FN population is around 6.5% , so they shouldn't get 50% of the harvest.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Don’t kid yourselves there is a tonne of crap the non-FN hunters do on the base too. Shooting things they don’t have tags for, shooting too many things, showing up drunk or stoned or drinking or doing drugs while hunting. All sorts of BS happens there amongst all sorts of people.

LC

So just like hunting public land anywhere

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by R3illy

the base definitely would have charged them and rightfully so. Sounds like your story is missing some critical info. I remember last year people claiming 100+ first nations took 60 more in one day....

The story was quickly proved to be bs as shed was posting data on the hunts at the time.

If your story is TRUE hopefully they throw the book at them.

I got a couple texts and that’s all the information I received.
It was 4:30 in the morning and I didn’t feel like playing twenty questions.
If it makes you feel any better when I was there for muzzle loader season some meat head tried to sneak into the no go zone on foot and got caught too.
I was just sharing news I heard from a reliable source that was sitting at the next table to them when they were bragging about it.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by R3illy

the base definitely would have charged them and rightfully so. Sounds like your story is missing some critical info. I remember last year people claiming 100+ first nations took 60 more in one day....

The story was quickly proved to be bs as shed was posting data on the hunts at the time.

If your story is TRUE hopefully they throw the book at them.

It is true, group from a reserve in Sask. 5 antlered elk, shot in a permanent no-go zone (hunting never allowed by anyone there), and complete elk were seized, escorted off the base.

LC

[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It is true, group from a reserve in Sask. 5 antlered elk, shot in a permanent no-go zone (hunting never allowed by anyone there), and complete elk were seized, escorted off the base.



LC

As i know those elk was shot in walk in only area and yeah this group from sask and thats what i was discussing me and couple another fn members why would they open the hunt for sask either here or suffield we have enough reserves in alberta!!


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[Fisher_man#1]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It is true, group from a reserve in Sask. 5 antlered elk, shot in a permanent no-go zone (hunting never allowed by anyone there), and complete elk were seized, escorted off the base.

LC

And its ironic because the seized elk will likely be donated to a local first nations. So in the end FN still get the meat...

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by ADHAM

As i know those elk was shot in walk in only area and yeah this group from sask and thats what i was discussing me and couple another fn members why would they open the hunt for sask either here or suffield we have enough reserves in alberta!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First my information is that they were shot in PDA3 --- this is the big restricted no-go zone in the heart of the main base. It is not a walk in only area.

Second as the base is Government of Canada it would be open to all FN. Suffield set the precedent on this when the base commander invited FN reserves from Sk and Manitoba to the initial hunts. So part of the problem at Wainwright is due to the invitations issued at Suffield.

[ADHAM]

Originally Posted by 2 Tollers

First my information is that they were shot in PDA3 --- this is the big restricted no-go zone in the heart of the main base. It is not a walk in only area.



Second as the base is Government of Canada it would be open to all FN. Suffield set the precedent on this when the base commander invited FN reserves from Sk and Manitoba to the initial hunts. So part of the problem at Wainwright is due to the invitations issued at Suffield.

Some thing doesn’t make sense everyone telling different story so will wait until we get legit info then we judge!! And yeah its big problem 3 month ago couple fn members from alberta tried to register at suffield for first day first season the answer was the priority for members from Saskatchewan coz they drive farther didn’t make any sense to me!!


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