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08-25-2017, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
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What is "BAIT" for big game/ungulates ?
More specifically, WATER... Is a water-hole, placed there by a hunter, considered bait ?
My interpretation is, water is NOT food. IMO, they are 2 totally separate entities like "space & time" or "earth & fire".
From the horses mouth - http://albertaregulations.ca/hunting...ml#definitions
Quote:
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Bait - any substance that consists of a food attractant, including mineral and any representation of a food attractant.
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I've already asked F&W, waiting for a response from an officer. What's your opinion ?
Like this --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YXNTcHie1A
Last edited by J0HN_R1; 08-25-2017 at 06:27 PM.
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08-25-2017, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 971
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I'd think it would be ok because it's not bait. Im curious what others say. I've thought about this as well
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08-25-2017, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 361
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Read the act.
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08-25-2017, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 653
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My wife baits me with bacon. Water not so much.
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08-26-2017, 07:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdales
Read the act.
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Read my post...
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08-26-2017, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,606
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Shovel, dig hole, wait for rain, set up tree stand...bag deer...fill in hole...take stand down go home and enjoy the winters meat.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent... 
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08-26-2017, 09:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdales
Read the act.
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I read the act.
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08-26-2017, 09:49 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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Interesting question. My first thought was that it would be illegal as it could be considered an attractant. But in the regs the definition of bait..."any substance that consists of a FOOD attractant, including any mineral and any representation of a food attractant".
Is water considered food? Is water considered a mineral? I would say water is not considered food, but perhaps a chemist or scientist could offer an opinion as to whether water could be considered a mineral.
Reading the act does not help until it is decided whether water is classified as bait or not.
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08-26-2017, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Most legal definitions of Food include water.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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08-26-2017, 10:18 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
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SERIOUSLY??!! 
I have never heard read or seen any instance where a hunter was charged with baiting or illegally hunting over a waterhole or field of grain where they had permission to hunt in a season where they legally tagged an animal .
I doubt very much that it has happened ever in fact.
People need to quit posting crap questions liberties and use their heads !! 
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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08-26-2017, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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I've asked two separate fish and wildlife officers in separate occasions as to what constitutes bait... in the first instance, I was asking about bait in general, but the deer-specific food plot seed mixes that are available in particular on one occasion, and a salt block on another occasion.
The response I got in both situations was that "if it's put out specifically to attract deer for hunting purposes, then it's considered baiting, and would be illegal... however, if the material is intended for another purpose and deer happen to use it, then it's not considered baiting"
Under these guidelines, I would consider a dugout made for livestock to be legal to hunt over, but if you have a water trough and fill it as an attractant for deer, then it would be considered bait. The officer said it would be a judgement call on each case, and if it could be shown that cattle use the material as well, then it wouldn't be bait.
I've hung stands over mineral blocks that ranchers have placed for their cattle with mixed results. I would imagine this would be a good year for water hole hunting.
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08-26-2017, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
SERIOUSLY??!!
I have never heard read or seen any instance where a hunter was charged with baiting or illegally hunting over a waterhole or field of grain where they had permission to hunt in a season where they legally tagged an animal .
I doubt very much that it has happened ever in fact.
People need to quit posting crap questions liberties and use their heads !!
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Natural water holes are a no brainer but hunter placed water holes could be a grey area. Proving the hunter placed it there could be tough however.
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08-26-2017, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
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It boils down to intent! 
Is it hunting season yet? 
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There are no absolutes
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08-26-2017, 12:30 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 616
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Water has zero calories. Foods function is to provide energy etc whereas water is the medium that all of lifes chemical reactions happen.
I would consider it more of an attractant than anything. But at the same time unless they stumble across it, it won't attract anything.
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I used to walk into a room full of people and wonder if they like me ...
Now I look around and wonder if I like them!
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08-26-2017, 10:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
It boils down to intent!
Is it hunting season yet? |
I agree with Dick . If you placed water with the "intent " of attracting deer then it is considered bait . A natural waterhole or natural mineral lick would be a different story .
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08-27-2017, 12:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Millet, AB
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H380
I agree with Dick . If you placed water with the "intent " of attracting deer then it is considered bait . A natural waterhole or natural mineral lick would be a different story .
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This thread is amazing. Natural watering hole or cattle drink, hunt away. You guys are honestly your own worst enemies. Theres no 'grey area'.
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My Blog---> Alberta Outdoors Journal
Last edited by Morbius131; 08-27-2017 at 07:46 PM.
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08-27-2017, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildside2014
This thread is amazing. Natural watering hole or cattle drink, hunt away. You guys are honestly your own worst enemies. Theres no 'grey area'. Grow brains gents!
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Who is talking about anything natural?
Quote:
Originally Posted by J0HN_R1
Is a water-hole, placed there by a hunter, considered bait?
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Having said that, I do not know what the point is.
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08-27-2017, 02:54 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildside2014
They havent responded yet because the officer that rread your question has been laughing his ass off since then.
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A better question would be why is baiting deer illegal in the first place? I'd say it is legal on all the land that borders our province, but I'm not sure if it is legal to bait deer in Montana or the NWT's.
EDIT.... You can not bait deer in Montana. I can't find the regs on baiting deer in NWT.
Last edited by waterninja; 08-27-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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08-27-2017, 03:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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This is a question of semantics. Water is not food because in English (and other languages I know), the word “food” does not include water.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"We're not polishing fine china here"-Belichick.
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08-27-2017, 03:06 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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I would hunt over a home made water hole and I would not mind telling the CO that I am doing so.
Lets see someone go out and bait a bear in to a new site with a pail of water. Hahahaha. Awesome.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"We're not polishing fine china here"-Belichick.
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08-27-2017, 04:16 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddeerhunter
I would hunt over a home made water hole and I would not mind telling the CO that I am doing so.
Lets see someone go out and bait a bear in to a new site with a pail of water. Hahahaha. Awesome.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Might be able to this year ..
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08-27-2017, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,674
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Water is not BAIT!
The answer is found in the dictionary.
Cat can remove this if he wants (Oh I forgot you retired) anyway with global warming we can now grow corn east of Stettler and my neighbour has a 1/2 section of it and it looks pretty good. My understanding is, is that he won't harvest it but turn his cattle in on it so he doesn't have to feed them as long this winter.
I have seen 300 deer in another field near Big Valley, large bucks looking across the fence at me as they chowed down on the cattle left overs. This is bait like you have never seen.
I don't know what the rules are in this case. It is a crop like barley or wheat, I would presume that it is O.K. I don't hunt big game but when it gets a bit colder I'll take a run over and let you know what the deer think.
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"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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08-27-2017, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44
The answer is found in the dictionary.
Cat can remove this if he wants (Oh I forgot you retired) anyway with global warming we can now grow corn east of Stettler and my neighbour has a 1/2 section of it and it looks pretty good. My understanding is, is that he won't harvest it but turn his cattle in on it so he doesn't have to feed them as long this winter.
I have seen 300 deer in another field near Big Valley, large bucks looking across the fence at me as they chowed down on the cattle left overs. This is bait like you have never seen.
I don't know what the rules are in this case. It is a crop like barley or wheat, I would presume that it is O.K. I don't hunt big game but when it gets a bit colder I'll take a run over and let you know what the deer think.
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The corn was planted for a legitimate agricultural purpose, therefore it's not considered as bait.
If it was a cover crop planted for the soul purpose of attracting game, and was never put there for any purpose other than as a deer attractant, the it's now classed as a bait.
Proving which is which takes quite a bit of proving the INTENT!
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There are no absolutes
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08-27-2017, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
SERIOUSLY??!!
I have never heard read or seen any instance where a hunter was charged with baiting or illegally hunting over a waterhole or field of grain where they had permission to hunt in a season where they legally tagged an animal .
I doubt very much that it has happened ever in fact.
People need to quit posting crap questions liberties and use their heads !!
Cat |
Yep. I've been thinking that for quite a long time now.
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08-27-2017, 07:49 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lougheed,Ab.
Posts: 12,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44
The answer is found in the dictionary.
Cat can remove this if he wants (Oh I forgot you retired) anyway with global warming we can now grow corn east of Stettler and my neighbour has a 1/2 section of it and it looks pretty good. My understanding is, is that he won't harvest it but turn his cattle in on it so he doesn't have to feed them as long this winter.
I have seen 300 deer in another field near Big Valley, large bucks looking across the fence at me as they chowed down on the cattle left overs. This is bait like you have never seen.
I don't know what the rules are in this case. It is a crop like barley or wheat, I would presume that it is O.K. I don't hunt big game but when it gets a bit colder I'll take a run over and let you know what the deer think.
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Corn growing here is a result of global warming?....interesting....
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The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
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08-27-2017, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
Corn growing here is a result of global warming?....interesting.... |
Oh ya, well be seeing mango plantations in a couple years.LOL
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08-27-2017, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,674
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It is warmer
The question they fight over is not "is it warmer" but did mankind cause it? It is warmer for sure, you can now take a cruise through the North West passage.
I'm sure there are earlier varieties of corn than 30 years ago but now you can reliably get a crop north of lat. 52 degrees, and that never used to be the case.
__________________
"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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08-27-2017, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44
The question they fight over is not "is it warmer" but did mankind cause it? It is warmer for sure, you can now take a cruise through the North West passage.
I'm sure there are earlier varieties of corn than 30 years ago but now you can reliably get a crop north of lat. 52 degrees, and that never used to be the case.
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Forage corn you see in Alberta is a GMO variety for our northern climate.
Nothing to do with global warming.
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08-27-2017, 10:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I'm more interested in all these deer he saw rushing to this corn. A fellow nearby has been growing forage corn for 10 years already and when I first saw it I thought it would be a godsend for hunting in the area. Hunted for whitetail, mules and moose all around the area and never found any of them to frequent the corn before or during season.
Now swath graze.....
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08-27-2017, 10:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCLightning
I'm more interested in all these deer he saw rushing to this corn. A fellow nearby has been growing forage corn for 10 years already and when I first saw it I thought it would be a godsend for hunting in the area. Hunted for whitetail, mules and moose all around the area and never found any of them to frequent the corn before or during season.
Now swath graze.....
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Same here.
Moose and bears seems to like it but not so much with deer.
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