Jim Shockey Speaks on BC Grizzly Bear Ban

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

I've heard this from a bunch of people. When you hear it at first one might think that yes, this is the case. But 1) There are alot of hunting shows both here in Canada and the US that do a good job of both showing meat hunts and airing shows in which the host or hunter doesn't shoot anything. It's much better than it used to be. 2) Your idea of a trophy just differs from alot of peoples. After reading your post your trophy has nothing to do with antler size and that's ok. But it's also ok if someone else wants to hold out for an animal with big horns as long as they're using the meat as well. This shouldn't be frowned upon in my opinion. Everyone's view on what is a trophy is just that. It's each to their own and be proud of everything you harvest.

True, I've seen hunting show quite before I turned it off, I used to watch the guns and ammo, and seen a lot of shows where the hunters took the trophy head and left the meat there, it was admitted by the hunters, so it was shot for the head, that's it. So that looks good for the antis to watch, just sayin.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

True, I've seen hunting show quite before I turned it off, I used to watch the guns and ammo, and seen a lot of shows where the hunters took the trophy head and left the meat there, it was admitted by the hunters, so it was shot for the head, that's it. So that looks good for the antis to watch, just sayin.

Without trying to cause any trouble, Id' really like to see an example of where a TV show host took only a head and left the rest of the animal in the field for the meat to go to waste.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

Without trying to cause any trouble, Id' really like to see an example of where a TV show host took only a head and left the rest of the animal in the field for the meat to go to waste.

Not left in the field, left to others and left in the cooler. If you shot it for meat, you'd leave the horns there too, or take both. You leave the meat and take the head, what does that say?

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Not left in the field, left to others and left in the cooler. If you shot it for meat, you'd leave the horns there too. You leave the near and take the head, what does that say?

Are you reffering to hunters that go on guided hunts and then donate the meat after but take the horns home?

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

https://globalnews.ca/news/2210949/w...sparks-debate/

Posting is fine but choose what you post. This is video is a hunt gone wrong and nothing to be proud about and is sickening to watch yet it made it on the internet and was a lot fuel to getting the bear hunt canceled

first time I seen this video no wander they shut it down .they should have put a little more thought into what they put online to me that's not hunt

[ex811]

I'm in the 'Stand for your Hunten Rights Camp'. Always be proud of your Hunting Hertitage and never shy away from anti's.

Having said that, maybe we should use some common sense here. The Social media pool is a shark infested water of hungry sharks ready to tear into anything that suits them. And the trolls/petapeople/granola crunching/unducated/iwannajoinacrowd dweebs feed off this.

I can understand why the individuals with hunting shows post on social media, they must believe it boost's their rating and it's probably required by the sponsors.
But does the every day hunter need to post so the world can see their Hunts?

I'll post pics on AO cause I do trust the people here, I'll Email pics to friends and family who are interested.
But I'll never post a hunting pic on facebook or any other social media.

And for those who oppose Hunten, I have no problem with an open discussion.

My 2 cents...

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by elk396

You are exactly right, but we don't have enough votes to keep those idiots out of office, the urban dwellers out number our way of thinking 10:1. So we need to make better choices when we post a blood bath on Facebook, because we are outnumbered and can't vote them out.

This is why engagement and education of people who live in the cities and towns is key. By engagement know the difference between a rabid peta type and someone who simply doesn't know and then educate. Social media posts can actually help engage if pictures are not gory and show the hunt itself and the reason for hunting.

[cheemo]

One problem I see is that the antis are only seeing the ‘bucket list hunts’. The fill your freezer crowd don’t generally post their kills on you tube. If they saw us tieing string on a moose roast rather than a wounded bear, they’d see what they see in the grocery store.

[elk396]

Originally Posted by slough shark

This is why engagement and education of people who live in the cities and towns is key. By engagement know the difference between a rabid peta type and someone who simply doesn't know and then educate. Social media posts can actually help engage if pictures are not gory and show the hunt itself and the reason for hunting.

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

you could not be more right

[DJS]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

Sorry, but the reason no one will say anything about the natives shooting 250 Grizzly bears is that it's "socially unacceptable" to say anything negative towards indigenous people now a days. Nothing to do with pictures being posted or not.

[elk396]

Originally Posted by DJS

Sorry, but the reason no one will say anything about the natives shooting 250 Grizzly bears is that it's "socially unacceptable" to say anything negative towards indigenous people now a days. Nothing to do with pictures being posted or not.

You do have to admit that they aren't the ones sensationalizing their kills on social media? They view their hunting heritage different than white people, they don't learn their hunting etiquette from 'Wild TV'.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

I am sure lots of people glory hunt. They cant wait to get that picture on facebook or instagram. Its their way of getting attention and probably has very little to do with hunting. Its just a way to get attention or get a pat on the back for 15 minutes of fame. I know lots of people that do not send or post pictures of their trophy kills, they just want to share with friends and family.

Just like any other deal hunting has a wide range of people that participate, that might never ever change. I think all hunters need to be aware that these antis are scary.. they have no morals and will do what ever it takes to push their agenda.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by elk396

You do have to admit that they aren't the ones sensationalizing their kills on social media? They view their hunting heritage different than white people, they don't learn their hunting etiquette from 'Wild TV'.

If that's the case then why are they not targeting cow elk on Suffield? Truck loads of big bulls were taken out by indigenous the first couple years they opened it up for hunting. How about the Jasper hunt? Did you see the animals taken on that "traditional" hunt? They're hunting heritage has nothing to do with the way the majority of indigenous people hunt now a days. I'm just calling it as I see it.

The problem we face today really has nothing to do with trophy hunting or posting things to social media. It's the fact that the left wing people in our societies are making more noise than those on the right. Most of them live in the concrete jungles which we call urban centers and have no idea what happens in the real world. And I think it's wrong to try hide how we live and keep hunting as we know it on the down low.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by DJS

... BC cancelling their grizzly hunt calling "socially unacceptable" is the cause of of way too many people on our side not doing or saying enough to keep it "socially acceptable"...

Bingo on that one. Perhaps not in the way you were thinking though...

As I have said so damn many times before, the greatest single weapon against us (and anglers) is APATHY! Despite constant reminders, despite pointing out the dangerous direction our adversaries are taking this, despite indicating what they could do, very VERY little in the way of action ensues.

The grizzly bear "consultation" scam is a classic example. Every hunting site, and most fishing sites in BC were hit with pleas for help. Damn near daily. The response was beyond DISMAL. And so, the Crazies carried the day.

Don't know if most consider hunting so far down on their list as to not get involved when it's needed, or they simply do not give a ****. One thing I can tell you is that those who are trying as hard as they can are getting downright frustrated and jaded with the whole lack of support thing. Some, including myself, are seriously thinking of saying Eff It - let them now sink or swim on their own...

And while I do recognize shaming folks into action doesn't work either, there are an awful lot of BC hunters who it can be justifiably suggested should be wearing some of the blame for our latest setback.

Without some very serious action and support, we will LOSE our hunting heritage in BC. Even that thought doesn't seem to motivate many beyond a few mumbles through their keyboards.

Possum pretty much nailed another very related issue:

Originally Posted by possum

... The antis don't need to tear us down we do the job for them and until hunters understand how stupid they are, we will be conquered because we have already divided ourselves.

aYup.

Personally I will HATE to see it go.
But I do have options, and at this point Alaska hasn't looked much better...

Sadly,
Nog

[DJS]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Bingo on that one. Perhaps not in the way you were thinking though...

As I have said so damn many times before, the greatest single weapon against us (and anglers) is APATHY! Despite constant reminders, despite pointing out the dangerous direction our adversaries are taking this, despite indicating what they could do, very VERY little in the way of action ensues.

The grizzly bear "consultation" scam is a classic example. Every hunting site, and most fishing sites in BC were hit with pleas for help. Damn near daily. The response was beyond DISMAL. And so, the Crazies carried the day.

Don't know if most consider hunting so far down on their list as to not get involved when it's needed, or they simply do not give a ****. One thing I can tell you is that those who are trying as hard as they can are getting downright frustrated and jaded with the whole lack of support thing. Some, including myself, are seriously thinking of saying Eff It - let them now sink or swim on their own...

And while I do recognize shaming folks into action doesn't work either, there are an awful lot of BC hunters who it can be justifiably suggested should be wearing some of the blame for our latest setback.

Without some very serious action and support, we will LOSE our hunting heritage in BC. Even that thought doesn't seem to motivate many beyond a few mumbles through their keyboards.

Possum pretty much nailed another very related issue:



aYup.

Personally I will HATE to see it go.
But I do have options, and at this point Alaska hasn't looked much better...

Sadly,
Nog

I agree 100% with everything stated in your post.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

Exactly!!, that's what I was trying to get at.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

Are you reffering to hunters that go on guided hunts and then donate the meat after but take the horns home?

Yeah, and the non guided hunt, just the common person who does the same thing. It's just my opinion. Elk 396 said it all.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by elk396

How do you explain/educate people to look at a guys trophy room and say it's my right to hunt to feed my family? Most people that post their kill are posting because it's a trophy calibre animal and they are going to stuff the head or whatever taxidermy they choose, they arent posting to show a butchered, lean, healthy meal. It's 'look at the addition I just made to my trophy room. Nice rack, or whatever response the poster is looking for. Most guys posting aren't in it for the meat. That's what's getting the anti's fired up. If indigenous peoples are still allowed to hunt Grizz as long as they are doing it for their consumption, doesn't that answer it right there? Why aren't the anti's still going ballistic and marching for zero Grizz kills? The natives could still shoot the 250 per year and nothing will be said, because they don't post their kill all over Facebook. They are doing what white people should be doing, go hunting, take your animal, and shut up about it. Pound your chest behind the curtain and quit trying to push your agenda which will sink us hunters deeper into a hole.

I'm on a Facebook group where an indigenous fellow posted his seasons kills, probably a half dozen moose, a half dozen elk and then I don't know how many deer, this was just the antlers, no rag horns or scrubs either. He posted it and there was no backlash because of the colour of his skin. Now look at the tv host killed a cougar and showed himself eating it, he had death threats, it is a double standard pure and simple. Antis are going to go after the hunting period regardless of whether or not food is a part of it, they will target the battles where they think they can win public opinion, "trophy hunting" is their new word, it's so ambiguous and open to interpretation on what that is so they use it to their advantage. Engage and educate the general population, minimize or ignore the rantings of a peta fanatic or what have you, don't validate their lunacy.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Yeah, and the non guided hunt, just the common person who does the same thing. It's just my opinion. Elk 396 said it all.

What's wrong with donating meat? As long as the meat is getting used then there should be no frowning on it. If meat is being left behind to waste then that's totally unacceptable.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

What's wrong with donating meat? As long as the meat is getting used then there should be no frowning on it. If meat is being left behind to waste then that's totally unacceptable.

Because like I've said before, people say they are donating the meat for the needy, but in reality it's just a legal way of disposing it. They like he thrill of the kill or are hunting for horns, if not donate the horns too but ohhh no!!! Seen it many times in real life and years ago on multiple hunting shows.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Because like I've said before, people say they are donating the meat for the needy, but in reality it's just a legal way of disposing it. They like he thrill of the kill or are hunting for horns, if not donate the horns too but ohhh no!!! Seen it many times in real life and years ago on multiple hunting shows.

The next argument there would be that the hunter just likes to kill things. Wouldn't it?

I'll be honest, for the majority of the time I hunt I'm looking for the biggest and oldest animals out there. I like to put big horns on my walls. Does that make me a bad person? Does it portray hunting in a bad light? I sure hope not. I look for the biggest animals because that's what I prefer. I also enjoy a good stir fry, or back strap steak. Looking down your nose at the people who look for bigger animals is totally wrong. Even to look down on those who donate the meat is wrong. Some people don't have the means to hunt for thierselves. Donating meat to the needy is a great thing.

It's this type of thing that really seperates and divides the hunting community. Can't we just stand side by side, support one another whatever our preferences are? If we can't we've already lost.

[elk396]

Originally Posted by DJS

If that's the case then why are they not targeting cow elk on Suffield? Truck loads of big bulls were taken out by indigenous the first couple years they opened it up for hunting. How about the Jasper hunt? Did you see the animals taken on that "traditional" hunt? They're hunting heritage has nothing to do with the way the majority of indigenous people hunt now a days. I'm just calling it as I see it.

The problem we face today really has nothing to do with trophy hunting or posting things to social media. It's the fact that the left wing people in our societies are making more noise than those on the right. Most of them live in the concrete jungles which we call urban centers and have no idea what happens in the real world. And I think it's wrong to try hide how we live and keep hunting as we know it on the down low.

I’m sure lots of First Nations guys are trophy hunters too, but the only photos I did see of those hunts were posted by white guys, didn’t see one native guy submitting his field kill on Facebook, it was whiteguys at gas stations while the natives were gassing up, it was like the paparazzi was following them. Anyway, it doesn’t matter, my view is that too many non-native hunters sensationalize their kills and it’s hurting our hunting community. There is huge backlash because of these posts, is it my legal right to post it? Certainly, but I have to ask myself is it wise? Probably not. You can dig your heals in and do what ever you want, but I don’t feel the hunting community will take much of a stand if we lose our rights. We just talk about it and complain but don’t act. I’m as guilty as anyone

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by DJS

The next argument there would be that the hunter just likes to kill things. Wouldn't it?

I'll be honest, for the majority of the time I hunt I'm looking for the biggest and oldest animals out there. I like to put big horns on my walls. Does that make me a bad person? Does it portray hunting in a bad light? I sure hope not. I look for the biggest animals because that's what I prefer. I also enjoy a good stir fry, or back strap steak. Looking down your nose at the people who look for bigger animals is totally wrong. Even to look down on those who donate the meat is wrong. Some people don't have the means to hunt for thierselves. Donating meat to the needy is a great thing.

It's this type of thing that really seperates and divides the hunting community. Can't we just stand side by side, support one another whatever our preferences are? If we can't we've already lost.

We'll to me shooting your limit of geese and donating them, the next weekend out shooting your limit again, now that's wrong to me... Just don't hide behind donating because a person likes killing, that's wrong.

Don't forget to donate the horns, or donate all the money you spend on your hunt.

Back on point I think it's best no to post anything.

[bigben]

Hey how come nobody is talking about the hunting ban of grizzlies in alberta now bc loses theirs but its not social media its government politics that dictates everything go to the polls next time and do your part

[270person]

Originally Posted by DJS

Even to look down on those who donate the meat is wrong. Some people don't have the means to hunt for thierselves. Donating meat to the needy is a great thing.

The "needy" would be a lot better served if you just donated the cash you spent for guns, ammo, gas, tags, etc than you bringing them a few steaks off the animal you killed but had no plans on eating.

Usually the "needy" are buddies, etc so please don't paint yourself as some sort of martyr. Yes there's some hunters that give their kills to food banks, etc but really? I'd call that killing vs hunting to be quite honest. If YOU aren't going to EAT it, don't HUNT it. Knock down all the big trophy animals you want but eat it. No problem. That's both of our rights.

These jackhandles on tv? You think they eat the 3 elk, 2 moose, 7 deer, 50 geese and ducks, and the pronghorn, etc that they bow and rifle every year? If that were the case Melissa Bachman's schmeebs would be even bigger than they are now and her backend would look like my Dodge Sports. (Might explain Dean Partridges beltline tho). If they donate it that doesn't make it right. Makes it a hobby for the rich and entitled in my books.

[Hillbilly 12]

Originally Posted by 270person

The "needy" would be a lot better served if you just donated the cash you spent for guns, ammo, gas, tags, etc than you bringing them a few steaks off the animal you killed but had no plans on eating.

Usually the "needy" are buddies, etc so please don't paint yourself as some sort of martyr. Yes there's some hunters that give their kills to food banks, etc but really? I'd call that killing vs hunting to be quite honest. If YOU aren't going to EAT it, don't HUNT it. Knock down all the big trophy animals you want but eat it. No problem. That's both of our rights.

These jackhandles on tv? You think they eat the 3 elk, 2 moose, 7 deer, 50 geese and ducks, and the pronghorn, etc that they bow and rifle every year? If that were the case Melissa Bachman's schmeebs would be even bigger than they are now and her backend would look like my Dodge Sports. (Might explain Dean Partridges beltline tho). If they donate it that doesn't make it right. Makes it a hobby for the rich and entitled in my books.

X2

[Sooner]

If we don't start really fighting back, it will be gone forever but we need numbers and getting those numbers to speak up will get the politicians to notice as it means potential votes. Can we as a group do that? We better.

Are our "conservation" groups doing all they can with the governments of the day? Do they fight the fight each and every time the anti's spout off? Do they counter the anti's and bad reporters with the positive stuff? Seems like the anti's are ready to fight each and every time they find a new scapegoat on social media. Do we need a "NRA" type of country wide conservation group? One that actually holds some political clout.

I'm alive today and so is every vegan and anti because something died so we can eat. The cow, the fish, the chicken or the moose. What about the birds, critters, bugs and insects that get killed or displaced to die later while that chunk of bush gets cleared to make way for vegans to eat? They still died. So why is it bad because we pull the trigger?


Everyone pulls the trigger in one form or another.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly 12

Because like I've said before, people say they are donating the meat for the needy, but in reality it's just a legal way of disposing it. They like he thrill of the kill or are hunting for horns, if not donate the horns too but ohhh no!!! Seen it many times in real life and years ago on multiple hunting shows.

What part of “hunting is a management tool” don’t you understand? Seriously. Hunting is not all about meat consumption either. There is more to it than that. Yes it’s part of it, but let’s not get caught up in that mind numbing vortex of eating everything you kill to be noble crap. It’s an ignorant approach that does not consider a bigger picture.

[Hillbilly 12]

[QUOTE=chuck;3702126]What part of “hunting is a management tool” don’t you understand? Seriously. Hunting is not all about meat consumption either. There is more to it than that. Yes it’s part of it, but let’s not get caught up in that mind numbing vortex of eating everything you kill to be noble crap. It’s an ignorant approach that does not consider a bigger picture.[/

If it's not for meat, what's it for? I'm pretty sure the tv shows are not doing it for management, if so stop recording, but no it's for kill shots, egos and social media. I'm not bashing hunting, I just said was to stop filling egos and posting it all like a person is 10. Management can take place without tv shows and social media. Lots wouldn't hunt if they couldn't post it to get compliments hence, not meat hunting