Why North Wabasca???

wildwoods · #1 03-25-2019, 02:26 PM

Ok I will admit I don't have a lot of history with this lake. I have fished it only twice in the last 3 years. The Age classes seemed healthy to me as there was a wide variety of sizes caught between both pike and walleye. Anyone know why they shut this lake down to retention? Mind blowing! I will C&R like the next guy, but man was it nice to throw a couple in the creel for the frying pan. Our fisheries suck

PeterSL · #2 03-25-2019, 02:41 PM

This may give you some information:
https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/reg...Jul01-2018.pdf

Bush · #3 03-25-2019, 02:51 PM

Absolutely retarded!! How many lakes do the catch and release guys need?
I can understand raising the size limits or slot fishing but setting it to zero for both species I can’t make any sense as to how that helps the lake. In a few years they will be all skin and bone overpopulated and not a perch to be found

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wildwoods · #4 03-25-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterSL

This may give you some information:
https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/reg...Jul01-2018.pdf

Thanks for posting that.
So basically the lake was netted to oblivion and they need to recover populations. Followed by strict retention limits when lifted (if ever lifted lol).

So do these same bios think Pigeon isn't sustainable for slot retention? Do they spin a wheel to determine these things? I'm sure they are trying, just us keyboard bios have a hard time reconciling these things

dfrobert · #5 03-25-2019, 03:41 PM

What a joke. I’m sure the ceremonial harvests will still be allowed for the local Stewart’s of the land up there. Same thing happened to Peerless, Graham, vandersteen. Our Biologists have done such a great job managing our lakes and resources.....pathetic.

pikeslayer22 · #6 03-25-2019, 03:54 PM

What about Utikima? Bunch of BS. Sask will definitely be seeing a influx of Ab fishermen in the years to come

wildwoods · #7 03-25-2019, 04:00 PM

To me it's a big deal to the people of Wabasca. I would say more than half the reason I visited there was for the chance to retain a nice fish or 3 for the frying pan. Ya, i could buy fish for much less, but it's the experience. I would say it will have a bit of an economic impact on the area. Being a C&R fishery, I will definitely seek out other lakes to catch big fish.... I know I won't be the only guy to think about heading elsewhere now

Drewski Canuck · #8 03-25-2019, 04:12 PM

if you think North Wabasca is bad for nets, try going to Rock Island on the May Long Weekend. Used to be a good early lake. about 10 years ago the Non Regs started placing 20 - 30 nets straight out from the boat launch, all May Long weekend.

Some of the netters where travelling from Slave Lake, because of the Whites and Pike. Slave apparently was not good enough.

Yes some walleye were also netted, actually quite a few were netted. In fact it was nothing to see 12 foot car toppers with 50 - 60 fish in the bottom as the guys would work along their nets, then re set and go in.

There were some very big whites in there. There were some very big Pike in there. Not any more.

It has nothing to do with the Regulated Fishermen. In fact, the Bios can make it illegal to put a hook in the water at all, let alone C & R.

Fishing Regulations mean nothing when the spawning areas are plugged with rows of nets.

Basically, if abuse of the resource is accepted by the Bios by Non Regulated netting, why not let the Regulated fishermen be allowed to take 1 walleye or 1 Pike in a Slot Size?

Sooner or later that large spawning fish is going to die in a net anyway.

That is all the Bios are doing by letting the fish grow big enough to tangle in a Non Regulated net, while denying the Regulated Fishermen a small fraction of the fish taken.

Drewski

wildwoods · #9 03-25-2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

if you think North Wabasca is bad for nets, try going to Rock Island on the May Long Weekend. Used to be a good early lake. about 10 years ago the Non Regs started placing 20 - 30 nets straight out from the boat launch, all May Long weekend.

Some of the netters where travelling from Slave Lake, because of the Whites and Pike. Slave apparently was not good enough.

Yes some walleye were also netted, actually quite a few were netted. In fact it was nothing to see 12 foot car toppers with 50 - 60 fish in the bottom as the guys would work along their nets, then re set and go in.

There were some very big whites in there. There were some very big Pike in there. Not any more.

It has nothing to do with the Regulated Fishermen. In fact, the Bios can make it illegal to put a hook in the water at all, let alone C & R.

Fishing Regulations mean nothing when the spawning areas are plugged with rows of nets.

Basically, if abuse of the resource is accepted by the Bios by Non Regulated netting, why not let the Regulated fishermen be allowed to take 1 walleye or 1 Pike in a Slot Size?

Sooner or later that large spawning fish is going to die in a net anyway.

That is all the Bios are doing by letting the fish grow big enough to tangle in a Non Regulated net, while denying the Regulated Fishermen a small fraction of the fish taken.

Drewski

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly. Just couldn't verbalize it!

dfrobert · #10 03-25-2019, 04:33 PM

And not a fishery biologist or politician in sight with enough gumption to stop the resource from getting hammered by above mentioned netting techniques.

wildwoods · #11 03-25-2019, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfrobert

And not a fishery biologist or politician in sight with enough gumption to stop the resource from getting hammered by above mentioned netting techniques.

In fairness the report says commercial fishing was stopped at Wabasca due to unsustainable harvest. Not sure if that means netting for the First Nations is completely banned as a result....

Drewski Canuck · #12 03-25-2019, 06:40 PM

Wildwoods,

ALL Regulated, licenced, Commercial Fishing was ceased in Alberta about 4 years ago.

The Non Regulated crowd still put in their nets, and put in their nets, and ....

North Wab is just a foot note of what has been going on for a very long time.

The lake has a small campground and is a long distance from major population centers. It was not the Regulated Fishermen that did it in.

North Wab also has 4 reserves around it.

When the SRD Report mentions numbers of walleye per net, they have a special sampling net that ranges in sizes of mesh from very small to large so that they get a cross sample of different age classes and species. The numbers are very very low according to this Report.

Drewski

wildwoods · #13 03-25-2019, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Wildwoods,

ALL Regulated, licenced, Commercial Fishing was ceased in Alberta about 4 years ago.

The Non Regulated crowd still put in their nets, and put in their nets, and ....

North Wab is just a foot note of what has been going on for a very long time.

The lake has a small campground and is a long distance from major population centers. It was not the Regulated Fishermen that did it in.

North Wab also has 4 reserves around it.

When the SRD Report mentions numbers of walleye per net, they have a special sampling net that ranges in sizes of mesh from very small to large so that they get a cross sample of different age classes and species. The numbers are very very low according to this Report.

Drewski

Thanks for clearing that up.
You can’t make this stuff up!!! What a disaster

dfrobert · #14 03-25-2019, 07:43 PM

Do what is right for the resource. For ALL groups!

thorne · #15 03-25-2019, 07:45 PM

Sooooo....basically according to the precedent being followed by the current and past Government, the mission is clearly.to eliminate all recreational fishing in AB to preserve the "Way of life" to Non--Regulated persons....so if any government official is reading this post, just S**T or get off the pot and say it like it is and stop the BS so we can get on with life. Just make all lakes C&R and be done with it so we can preserve the fisheries for the generations to come....of Non Regulater peoples that is.....then maybe we can get a damn pipeline as well! ...wait....ya....that wont happen either.

Eventually the over fishing by nets will whipe out all the Alberta fish, and problem solved! Cant regulate what ya dont have!

Drewski Canuck · #16 03-25-2019, 07:58 PM

Actually, the "managers" can do something if they wanted to.

They could simply acknowledge that a user group is using too much at some lakes and bringing the lake to "extirpation".

Under the Supreme Court ruling, Conservation comes first, not second, or third. Obviously if North Wabasca is almost extirpated of Whitefish, CLOSING THE LAKE TO ALL is the answer for "CONSERVATION".

It is a Great Big Joke to think that Regulated Fishermen where catching too many Whitefish in North Wabasca that it now must be 0 retention. Who cares if the limit stayed 10. Northern Whitefish are very hard to catch without a net. If SRD can show a Creel Study where they have 20 regulated fishermen catching whitefish I will gladly shut up. But they can't because it is not Non Regulated Fishermen that is the problem.

I will gladly give any of our Bios $100 to show me how the Regulated Anglers have caught the Whitefish in our North Wabasca with a rod and a hook to bring about this situation. (Cheap at twice the price compared to what I have paid so far!)

The fact is, it is a "Square hook" that has been used to extirpate the Whitefish in North Wabasca.

Now, it becomes VERY EASY to close North Wabasca to all fishing, for fear of Whitefish "bycatch".

THEN, when the Non Regulated netters complain, it is easy to point out the fact that they are the cause. If they want to be part of the Solution is irrelevant.

Re opening the lake for all is pretty easy then, when the Non Regulated fishers agree to abide by a few rules for the goal of "Conservation".

Drewski

deercamp · #17 03-25-2019, 08:19 PM

i personally witnessed nets stretched end to end from the point at fishermans wharf for over a kilometer out 2018 hard water season. Went from 30 flags on tip ups a day to 2. There was truck parked at gas station that was level to the top of box with walleye. Thats where the fish went.

thorne · #18 03-25-2019, 08:58 PM

We have all seen what netting does....its pretty obvious...and quite honestly I have a very hard time trusting that any government would have the backbone to stand up and say "Hey, netting a lake is just shooting your own culture in the back" no matter how true it is. Yes they may have the actual legislative powers to act, but the fear of back lash from the affected population is waaaaay to scary for them. However shutting down the everyday, licences angler who would just like to have a few meals of fresh locally caught fish (not a pick up truck full) is much easier. I have no problem with a peoples right to maintain its culture and way of life....but why can't that be with a rod and reel? Give them an open season, let them catch what they what when they want, and of course.....no licence required, just ban the damn nets!!!! Cant we have a little compromise on this?? I mean seriously preserve your own way of life! I'm sure they have stories from there Grand Parents of all the huge fish they use to catch many years ago and through oral history they can see the decline...regardless it's nice to rant, but this downward spiral will continue. It almost feels as if the recreational fishery in AB is in a flat spin and will eventually slam into the ground. That may finally trigger a complete moratorium on the catching of fish by anyone. Kinda like the ground fish closure on the east coast in the 90's.

pikeman06 · #19 03-25-2019, 10:44 PM

What a disaster is right. The awful part of it is that we had a nice population of spawning size mature pIke in many lakes when the 63 cm plus was implemented in the first place. With no stocking program for pike or perch followed by some poor spawning years and maybe a winter kill or summer kill thrown in just because, then protect the most efficient predator fish just when things are borderline hopeless and keep killing the last few to the point of collapse...which is gonna be impossible to repair with netting and no stocking. But hey the first time spawners that are barely 63 cm are a better fish than a mature female pike. Wrong. They got fished out gradually and the small pike didn't recruit as promised so its come to this. No hope of recovery without bans on nets, stocking or total closure. Even then it's trying to mess with mother nature and lakes up that way take forever to improve when the big girls are long gone. North wab back in the early 90's late 80's was polluted with fish. One smaller fish to keep wouldn't have even put a dent in that case. There was so many spawning size pike and wallies that if they would have protected those fish instead of eliminate them we would be golden. It's the last lake I thought would ever get shut down. Sad.

7magtime · #20 03-26-2019, 09:14 AM

And now the province just signed the Metis agreement adding many more 100's/1000's of people that will be able to use nets(up to 95 meters in length)where they want come September 1st. Unless someone with our gov't stands ups soon and says the resource is in trouble and the "subsistence harvesters" need to be regulated as well, I doubt my kids will even be able to C&R the majority of lakes in this province in a few years(never mind keeping anything). I predict total fishing closures on some lakes is next for the licence buying, rod & reel folks......

Drewski Canuck · #21 03-26-2019, 03:17 PM

"There was so many spawning size pike and wallies that if they would have protected those fish instead of eliminate them we would be golden. It's the last lake I thought would ever get shut down. Sad."

Wellllll....

The obvious question for a lake with rampant netting, is just who are you protecting these large fish for, and from what?

Once the fish makes the net size, it is eliminated, thus removing the genetics for large fish from North Wabasca.

So getting back to my point of a Conservation closure for all user groups until we have recovery, and agreement to follow some basic rules by the Non Regulated groups, ...

Stocking fish is just raising fish to be once again netted out once they get big enough to restore the population naturally.

Drewski

calvin · #22 03-26-2019, 03:37 PM

You folks need to remember that this isn't a recreational and licensed fisherpersons lake.

Bush Critter · #23 03-26-2019, 04:11 PM

Catch and keep days are pretty much gone now...

thorne · #24 03-26-2019, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvin

You folks need to remember that this isn't a recreational and licensed fisherpersons lake.

That's pretty obvious now!

7magtime · #25 03-26-2019, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvin

You folks need to remember that this isn't a recreational and licensed fisherpersons lake.

Wow. So where is the cutoff for all lakes to the South being “recreational and licenced fisherpersons” access only? Slippery slope to go down if we all supposedly have equal rights and want what is best for Alberta fisheries and conservation......

thorne · #26 03-26-2019, 06:12 PM

Also Calvin...what do you mean by "You Folks"??? Sounds pretty offensive!!

pikeman06 · #27 03-26-2019, 06:34 PM

Gonna be an interesting year on the lakes and hunting grounds....like I said the decision makers are separating us good outdoors people and creating racism and hard feelings when the rest of the world is doing the equality thing and empowering alot of people that quite frankly should stay in the closet for their own good. Bad thing about this is creating friction between people armed with weapons where a confrontation is going to occur frequently and hopefully nobody snaps but we are all guilty of "our lake" and "my buck" kinda mentality. Lotsa blue eyed blonde haired dudes flashing their metis cards to me these days and they gonna use their rights right quick.

7magtime · #28 03-26-2019, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikeman06

Gonna be an interesting year on the lakes and hunting grounds....like I said the decision makers are separating us good outdoors people and creating racism and hard feelings when the rest of the world is doing the equality thing and empowering alot of people that quite frankly should stay in the closet for their own good. Bad thing about this is creating friction between people armed with weapons where a confrontation is going to occur frequently and hopefully nobody snaps but we are all guilty of "our lake" and "my buck" kinda mentality. Lotsa blue eyed blonde haired dudes flashing their metis cards to me these days and they gonna use their rights right quick.

Well said and agreed. It’s a pity the direction that our fisheries and wildlife is heading. Hopefully if we have a change of government in the upcoming election some of these decisions can possibly be revisited/revised. Not holding my breath though.....

Drewski Canuck · #29 03-27-2019, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvin

You folks need to remember that this isn't a recreational and licensed fisherpersons lake.

Either is Rock Island, any more.

Trouble is, when the Non Reg crowd pulls up empty nets, the Non Regulated people will just move on to another lake. Maybe it will be YOUR favorite lake.

There is supposed to be some guidelines for the issuance of the Subsistence licence about which lakes in their area they can go on, but there is a period where people can net a particular lake though they don't live anywhere near the lake.

The trouble of course comes with any attempt at enforcement, and there simply is no mechanism for removing the right to net from a violator due to "Special Status"..

Governments are really gun shy about taking on this issue in this period of reconciliation, which seems to be understood by some as the right to abuse the resource. That is the biggest fear.

F & W whines about how few lakes we have, and how many licensed fishermen we have, and how much pressure there is on the resource.

Licenced fishing pressure means NOTHING, if the Non Regulated fisherman with a net takes out everything that swims.

That is why we need a reset, but first we need a Government with the will to start resetting things.

It would be as easy as starting with North Wabasca. F & W have the scientific proof to back the necessary Conservation Closure for North Wabasca. They already have a large seasonal Conservation Closure in the spring on the west bay of South Wabasca Lake.

Drewski

Talking moose · #30 03-27-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7magtime

Wow. So where is the cutoff for all lakes to the South being “recreational and licenced fisherpersons” access only? Slippery slope to go down if we all supposedly have equal rights and want what is best for Alberta fisheries and conservation......

Being surrounded by reserves this lake is a prime candidate for First Nation netting. It’s not rocket surgery....

It’s not a North/south thing.