Culling Fish is Usually Illegal

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Soooo, what happens if you catch a fish and keep it in a live well. This lake X has a limit of 3. So now I catch a bigger fish and let the one go in the live well. I keep on fishing and I catch the the first fish that I already let go and this time I decide to keep it. Is my retention limit at 3???

Lol, quite the example. Very grey area. My first thoughts was that if you were absolutely sure it was the same fish then you would only be at 2. However from an outsiders(like co) point of view it would look like 3. I guess the good news is that this would probably never happen.

[RigPig]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Give it a break,,,

You cannot release a retained fish (dead or alive) in order to stay within your daily retention limit. Once you have retained a daily possession for a species you must immediately release all other fish of that same species that you catch.

That is the original point of this thread. The rest of the "what ifs" and "yeah, buts" are nothing but internet nit-picking.

This

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Lol, quite the example. Very grey area. My first thoughts was that if you were absolutely sure it was the same fish then you would only be at 2. However from an outsiders(like co) point of view it would look like 3. I guess the good news is that this would probably never happen.

Yes, probably never happen. Just thought this thread needed some humor.

[CanuckShooter]

Wouldn't culling fish mean killing them and not keeping them in a live well??

[Sundancefisher]

Interesting thread.

There is some semantics at play here. Most problems and concerns and actual culling is when people throw dead or soon to be dead fish back to keep a bigger one.

The rules are in place to protect against that.

Holding fish in a live well and culling as bigger fish come in is still culling. It would require a direct observation of the offense and therefore harder to enforce.

The problem with handling and holding any fish versus immediate release is an increased mortality rate of such handled fish. Therefore releasing a fish from a livewell could still mean a dead fish...you just don't see it as it sinks to the bottom after a short swim.

In the end the regulations are there to stop culling.

The regulations are crystal clear as they state exactly as follows:

Never Cull Fish

“Culling” is staying within the catch limit for a species by releasing fish from a stringer or other holding device when a larger fish is caught. Fish that have been held on a stringer or in a tub usually die if released because of stress and because of damage to their gills, fins and scales.

Find it here

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/fis...eral-regs.html

[huntsfurfish]

Omg

[Habfan]

What if I have a 80cm pike and then catch a 65cm pike but don't need more than enough for one meal, so I let the bigger 1 go ! Culling is not always about upgrading to a larger fish !!

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Interesting thread.

There is some semantics at play here. Most problems and concerns and actual culling is when people throw dead or soon to be dead fish back to keep a bigger one.

The rules are in place to protect against that.

Holding fish in a live well and culling as bigger fish come in is still culling. It would require a direct observation of the offense and therefore harder to enforce.

The problem with handling and holding any fish versus immediate release is an increased mortality rate of such handled fish. Therefore releasing a fish from a livewell could still mean a dead fish...you just don't see it as it sinks to the bottom after a short swim.

In the end the regulations are there to stop culling.

The regulations are crystal clear as they state exactly as follows:

Never Cull Fish

“Culling” is staying within the catch limit for a species by releasing fish from a stringer or other holding device when a larger fish is caught. Fish that have been held on a stringer or in a tub usually die if released because of stress and because of damage to their gills, fins and scales.

Find it here

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/fis...eral-regs.html

Anytime a fish is caught and released imeadeately or from livewell thereis a chance you could be releasing a dead fish, perhaps it should be you catch till you have your limit then your done no releasing of any fish. :



Mack

[Northern Yaker]

Once again...
We should outlaw the use of livewells like BC. Eliminate what appears to be a good # of anglers oblivious to the harm they are doing by using livewell to upgrade fish and not just keep their catch fresh.

[bobalong]

[QUOTE=Dan Foss;2486347]Indeed they do. But have you ever wondered why the fish counts for the tournaments is 4 fish per day per boat and yet they are only allowed to hold the tournaments on lakes with a retention limit of 3 walleye per person per day? /QUOTE]

Actually most of the tournaments are on lakes with a 1 fish possession limit per person. 4 fish per day, but no more than 2 in the livewell at one time. You have to weight in at least twice a day.

[pickrel pat]

What if you catch your limit of fish and put them in your truck but continue fishing just for sport and return to see that your truck was stolen....can you turn around and go back fishing for your limit? Or are you obligated to go look for truck? Has this happened to anyone? What did you do? If I'm releasing a fish back to the water and an osprey snatches it out of my hands, does that count against my limit? Can I be charged with feeding wildlife? If I were a hand amputee, I think I would just attach a fishing reel to my stub.

[Adwittoutdoors]

Hey Mooseknuckle you gotta love Family Guy eh !! Thanks to your post I've just finished cleaning up my coffee off the floor and table I haven't had a great laugh like that in a while. Man..... hot coffee shooting out of a guys nose doesn't feel to good. Lol Thanks again and tight lines :-)

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Indeed they do. But have you ever wondered why the fish counts for the tournaments is 4 fish per day per boat and yet they are only allowed to hold the tournaments on lakes with a retention limit of 3 walleye per person per day? /QUOTE]

Actually most of the tournaments are on lakes with a 1 fish possession limit per person. 4 fish per day, but no more than 2 in the livewell at one time. You have to weight in at least twice a day.

This is where the regulations and enforcement gets interesting.


If a non-tournament angler had 2 fish in the livewell (possession limit of one), should/would that angler be charged for being over the limit?

If yes, why wouldn't a tournament angler in the same situation face the same charge?


Is there an agreement with licenced fishing tournaments that allows people to have more fish in their possession than allowed by the regulations? Or is this regulation simply not being enforced for licenced tournaments?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Anytime a fish is caught and released imeadeately or from livewell thereis a chance you could be releasing a dead fish, perhaps it should be you catch till you have your limit then your done no releasing of any fish. :



Mack

You can make up any new idea you want. Fact is that releasing a fish immediately upon catching it gives it the best chance of survival. Putting it on a stringer, in a bucket, in any sort of live well and then trying to release it increases mortality risk.

Hence the law is clear. You can not do that.

Simple.

[gramps73]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This is where the regulations and enforcement gets interesting.


If a non-tournament angler had 2 fish in the livewell (possession limit of one), should/would that angler be charged for being over the limit?

If yes, why wouldn't a tournament angler in the same situation face the same charge?


Is there an agreement with licenced fishing tournaments that allows people to have more fish in their possession than allowed by the regulations? Or is this regulation simply not being enforced for licenced tournaments?

In Alberta we have 2 anglers per boat, there for you are not over your daily limit. On lake that have a passion limit of 1 fish you have to weigh in twice in a day. Never over the limit.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by gramps73

In Alberta we have 2 anglers per boat, there for you are not over your daily limit. On lake that have a passion limit of 1 fish you have to weigh in twice in a day. Never over the limit.

x2, alberta tournys involve a team.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by gramps73

In Alberta we have 2 anglers per boat, there for you are not over your daily limit. On lake that have a passion limit of 1 fish you have to weigh in twice in a day. Never over the limit.

Thanks, stating two anglers (two fish at time in possession) clarifies things from Bob's post. Glad to see some tournament anglers join the fray.


However, I still question the legality of retaining fish for the second weigh-in for the previous example. According to the question answered by ESRD info. officer in the OP, going back out and retaining a second fish after retaining and releasing the first fish would put a person over their daily possession limit.




To clarify, I don't have an issue with the practice when good handling techniques and equipment are used, for some species of fish. I don't know if this is presently a true conservation concern or not. I'm playing along trying to get a real interpretation of the regulations, and hopefully elbowing someone else to do it. ( I have my hands full with other ESRD requests.)




As I posted in the last thread, perhaps Alberta should look at Ontario's way of handling this issue.

Ontario's Catch and Retain Rules
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business...ge/198680.html

Generally, daily catch limits include all fish that are retained for any period of time and not immediately released.


Anglers fishing from a boat may now catch, hold and selectively live release, more walleye, northern pike, largemouth or smallmouth bass than the daily limit, provided:


(a) the fish are held in a livewell with a mechanical aerator operating at all times.


A livewell is a compartment designed to keep fish alive. For a livewell to be used to selectively release bass, walleye and northern pike, it must be attached to or form part of a boat, hold a total volume of not less than 46 litres (10 gallons) of water, have the capacity for water exchange and be mechanically aerated at all times when live fish are being held in it.

(b) the fish comply with any applicable size limits.

(c) the Sport or Conservation Fishing Licence daily catch and retain limits for walleye or northern pike are not exceeded at any one time.

(d) no more than six largemouth or smallmouth bass (or any combination) caught under a sport fishing licence are retained at any one time, and,

(e) the Conservation Fishing Licence catch and retain limits for largemouth and smallmouth bass (or any combination) are not exceeded at any one time.

[Sundancefisher]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;2487942]Thanks, stating two anglers (two fish at time in possession) clarifies things from Bob's post. Glad to see some tournament anglers join the fray.

QUOTE]

Alberta's rules

Derby and Tournament Licensing

The licensing of organized fishing derbies and tournaments (Competitive Fishing Events or CFE's) is required for events involving more than 25 participants. The type of licence depends on the number of participants and the value of prizes. The cost of all licences is $25 and will only be issued to organizers who are residents of Alberta. Best Management Practices have been developed and incorporated into licence conditions to reduce impacts on fish populations. Events with 25 or fewer participants do not require a licence, but organizers are encouraged to voluntarily register such events and to follow best management practices.

Non-competitive fishing events, any event where 26 or more people participate in angling for one or more consecutive days on a specified water, do not require a licence, if prizes are awarded for participation or randow draw, not a fishing competition.

The CFE website, at mywildalberta.com, provides organizers with application and reporting forms, licence conditions, contact information, and information on how best to operate an event. A Frequently Asked Questions document addresses the issues event organizers need to consider prior to advertising and running an event.

List of facts.
http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences...EventsFAQ.aspx

Special regulations for larger derbies include mandatory catch and release with special rules on transporting and measuring live fish as well as releasing methods.

[Hunter Trav]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

However, I still question the legality of retaining fish for the second weigh-in for the previous example.

The first 2 fish are weighed, then released immediately after weighing. You go out and catch two more then bring those in for another weight. The two weights are combined for your daily total. You do not keep any fish after your first weigh in. The tourneys have special provisions in place to allow you to go out and retain another two fish for weighing, and you sign a waiver stating you agree to only do this for the tourney only...

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Is there an agreement with licenced fishing tournaments that allows people to have more fish in their possession than allowed by the regulations? Or is this regulation simply not being enforced for licenced tournaments?

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

List of facts.
http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences...EventsFAQ.aspx

Special regulations for larger derbies include mandatory catch and release with special rules on transporting and measuring live fish as well as releasing methods.

Originally Posted by Hunter Trav

The first 2 fish are weighed, then released immediately after weighing. You go out and catch two more then bring those in for another weight. The two weights are combined for your daily total. You do not keep any fish after your first weigh in. The tourneys have special provisions in place to allow you to go out and retain another two fish for weighing, and you sign a waiver stating you agree to only do this for the tourney only...

There's the answer, Finally....

Thanks, guys.


http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences...ts-Dec2011.pdf

See 24 and 25 of the Medium and Large Competitive Fishing Events - Participant Conditions

[I-Love-Eyes]

Originally Posted by Hunter Trav

The first 2 fish are weighed, then released immediately after weighing. You go out and catch two more then bring those in for another weight. The two weights are combined for your daily total. You do not keep any fish after your first weigh in. The tourneys have special provisions in place to allow you to go out and retain another two fish for weighing, and you sign a waiver stating you agree to only do this for the tourney only...

Just to clarify, you do NOT keep any fish after the second weigh in either.

ALL fish caught and weighed, in a tournament, are released.

[gramps73]

However, I still question the legality of retaining fish for the second weigh-in for the previous example. According to the question answered by ESRD info. officer in the OP, going back out and retaining a second fish after retaining and releasing the first fish would put a person over their daily possession limit.


IMO, the CO answered the question that was asked but I think that the question was worded to get the answer the OP was fishing for.

I would like to think that as tourney anglers we have the BEST interest of the fisheries in mind. A lot of time and efforts go into making these events save for the fishery, the last thing we want to see is any further decline in Alberta fish stocks...

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You can make up any new idea you want. Fact is that releasing a fish immediately upon catching it gives it the best chance of survival. Putting it on a stringer, in a bucket, in any sort of live well and then trying to release it increases mortality risk.

Hence the law is clear. You can not do that.

Simple.

Have you never heard of a live well as a recovery tank?

[gramps73]

A little off topic, but if there was as much time put into fighting the Government (SRD) on such issues as stocking and enforcement we would not be having the problems we have now with Alberta Fisheries.

[gramps73]

Originally Posted by I-Love-Eyes

Just to clarify, you do NOT keep any fish after the second weigh in either.

ALL fish caught and weighed, in a tournament, are released.

The rule states you must immediately leave the water after your second weigh in..
ops theirs that work again...

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by gramps73

However, I still question the legality of retaining fish for the second weigh-in for the previous example. According to the question answered by ESRD info. officer in the OP, going back out and retaining a second fish after retaining and releasing the first fish would put a person over their daily possession limit.


IMO, the CO answered the question that was asked but I think that the question was worded to get the answer the OP was fishing for.

I would like to think that as tourney anglers we have the BEST interest of the fisheries in mind. A lot of time and efforts go into making these events save for the fishery, the last thing we want to see is any further decline in Alberta fish stocks...

I agree you can usually get the answer you want if you word the question the right way.

I like the pun intended or not "the answer the op was FISHING for".


Mack

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by gramps73

"However, I still question the legality of retaining fish for the second weigh-in for the previous example. According to the question answered by ESRD info. officer in the OP, going back out and retaining a second fish after retaining and releasing the first fish would put a person over their daily possession limit. "


IMO, the CO answered the question that was asked but I think that the question was worded to get the answer the OP was fishing for.

I would like to think that as tourney anglers we have the BEST interest of the fisheries in mind. A lot of time and efforts go into making these events save for the fishery, the last thing we want to see is any further decline in Alberta fish stocks...

Of course the OP worded the question specifically for the answer, that's what you do to get the right answer. Do note that the answer stands regardless of the question even being asked.



I never stated that I have an issue or concern with the tournament fishery, I don't, and I do believe that most participants care for the health of every fish they catch. I simply was asking and learned (From Sundance's link) that there are different rules regarding daily possession limits for licenced tournaments and non tournament fishing.

[RavYak]

If you want an accurate answer ask a qualified person a detailed question. If you want a potentially incorrect answer ask the wrong person an ambiguous question.

I know many on here would have preferred me to do the latter but that is not the way I work...

[rafhone]

this thread is like cancer, it has no further purpose but continues to grow.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Jamie Black R/T

Seriously??

This entire thread serves no purpose other than to confuse a very black and white question. This isnt as hard as you make it out to be. Culling in the true sense of the term is NOT illegal. It can end there. You dont need to continue trying to twist and skew the details until the results suit your personal beliefs.

Culling is legal.

Exceeding your daily catch limit is illegal.

Done.

Nuff said.^^^^