Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fly-Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:09 AM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default Petition Against Logging at Highwood Junction

Lower Kananaskis at the Highwood Junction is an are known for its rich wildlife, world renowned fishing and prestine natural area. In the fall of 2017 a British Columbia based logging company plans on clear cutting a wide area of Lower Kananaskis Country which boasts many important wintering ground for such wildlife as elk, bighorn sheep, mule and whitetail deer. Not only will this process threaten wildlife in the area but it will undoubtably destroy the natural beauty of the area that many outdoor enthusiasts from Alberta and across the world come to enjoy. We need to take a stand for the Highwood and help end all plans to log this area if we want to keep this part of Alberta wild for generations to come.

This is a BC company and the processing of the lumber will be done in BC so this represents very little in terms of economic gain for Alberta.


Please Sign the petition to protect our native species (Cutthroat and Bull Trout)!
https://www.change.org/p/action-agai...hwood-junction
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis

Last edited by kcoderre; 06-08-2017 at 09:11 AM. Reason: poor sentence structure
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:21 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,444
Default

Thanks for bringing this forwards. Signed.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:37 AM
Okotokian's Avatar
Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
Default

Are there forest areas that are not pristine or that don't contain animals that could be logged?

And it was my understanding that many cervids, etc, frequent and thrive in areas that have been cut. How far away from headwaters are they cutting? What's the pattern of cuts?

Maybe the government should declare the entire Kananaskis area a Provincial Park.

I do agree that with regard to the new BC government's statements on pipelines, the permits for BC companies to do ANYTHING in Alberta should be denied or pulled.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-08-2017, 11:07 AM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default Letter to send to ministers of agriculture and environment

In case you are really feeling like you might want to stir the political pot a little more, I wrote the letter below and send it to my MLA and to the Minister of the Environment Shannon Phillips (lethbridge.west@assembly.ab.ca) and the Minister of Agriculture Oneil Carlier (whitecourt.steanne@assembly.ab.ca). Feel free to copy and paste and email it to your MLA or any minister you see fit. (Also, I am not a "Political Guy" this is actually the first time I have every written a government member so I may not have gotten everything right in the wording)

Mr. Minister,

I am writing you today to express my concern over the clear cut logging plan slated to start this year near the Highwood Junction.

My main area of concern is the negative impact that this logging plan will have on the native fish species inhabiting the Highwood river watershed especially Etherington Creek. As I hope you are aware, to species native to Alberta live in this area and all already listed as "species at risk". These species would be Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi) and our provincial fish the Bull Trout (Salvelinus Confluentus). Both species have been extirpated from their full natural range and the Highwood watershed is one of the few places left in our province where these fish are able to survive, spawn and avoid hybridization with other species.

The area to be logged could easily cause increased sediment to enter the Highwood river watershed. This increased sediment load has been proven to smother the eggs of trout species (as was seen along Hidden Creek previously). This sediment will cause further harm to those species already under pressure from development in this area. This area is known to be prime habitat for the spawning and development of both species. I refer you to several pieces of research on this subject
Rodtka (2009) Status of Bull Trout in Alberta Status of Bull Trout in Alberta
Rees et. al. (2012) Bull Trout Conservation Management Plan 2012-2017 Bull Trout Conservation and Management Plan 2012-2017 pdf
Popowich et. al. (2009) Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys on the Elbow, Sheep, and Highwood Rivers Alberta - Trout Unlimited Canada Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys pdf
Cove et. al. (2009) Recovery Strategy for the Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi), Alberta Populations in Canada Recovery and Management Plan for Westslope Cutthroat Trout pdf

A seconday concern related to this matter is the hypocrisy of the NDP government in this matter. Premier Notley has repeatedly stated that your government chooses the environment first. This was stated when coal was to be phased out and again when the carbon tax was instituted. To then approve an out of province company to ravage an area of our province, process the lumber out of province, and leave behind an environmental time bomb for our native species and environment in general goes against everything your government claims to value. To make matters worse, there is little or no economic or employment value for our province to be gained from it.

I would greatly appreciate your consideration of these concerns and the cited research above. My hope is that you would address this in the legislative assembly for consideration and review of this decision in light of the consequences for our native species. I would also appreciate your timely reply to these concerns.

Thank-you for your time.
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-08-2017, 11:21 AM
ÜberFly's Avatar
ÜberFly ÜberFly is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,923
Default



Quote:
Originally Posted by kcoderre View Post
In case you are really feeling like you might want to stir the political pot a little more, I wrote the letter below and send it to my MLA and to the Minister of the Environment Shannon Phillips (lethbridge.west@assembly.ab.ca) and the Minister of Agriculture Oneil Carlier (whitecourt.steanne@assembly.ab.ca). Feel free to copy and paste and email it to your MLA or any minister you see fit. (Also, I am not a "Political Guy" this is actually the first time I have every written a government member so I may not have gotten everything right in the wording)

Mr. Minister,

I am writing you today to express my concern over the clear cut logging plan slated to start this year near the Highwood Junction.

My main area of concern is the negative impact that this logging plan will have on the native fish species inhabiting the Highwood river watershed especially Etherington Creek. As I hope you are aware, to species native to Alberta live in this area and all already listed as "species at risk". These species would be Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi) and our provincial fish the Bull Trout (Salvelinus Confluentus). Both species have been extirpated from their full natural range and the Highwood watershed is one of the few places left in our province where these fish are able to survive, spawn and avoid hybridization with other species.

The area to be logged could easily cause increased sediment to enter the Highwood river watershed. This increased sediment load has been proven to smother the eggs of trout species (as was seen along Hidden Creek previously). This sediment will cause further harm to those species already under pressure from development in this area. This area is known to be prime habitat for the spawning and development of both species. I refer you to several pieces of research on this subject
Rodtka (2009) Status of Bull Trout in Alberta Status of Bull Trout in Alberta
Rees et. al. (2012) Bull Trout Conservation Management Plan 2012-2017 Bull Trout Conservation and Management Plan 2012-2017 pdf
Popowich et. al. (2009) Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys on the Elbow, Sheep, and Highwood Rivers Alberta - Trout Unlimited Canada Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys pdf
Cove et. al. (2009) Recovery Strategy for the Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi), Alberta Populations in Canada Recovery and Management Plan for Westslope Cutthroat Trout pdf

A seconday concern related to this matter is the hypocrisy of the NDP government in this matter. Premier Notley has repeatedly stated that your government chooses the environment first. This was stated when coal was to be phased out and again when the carbon tax was instituted. To then approve an out of province company to ravage an area of our province, process the lumber out of province, and leave behind an environmental time bomb for our native species and environment in general goes against everything your government claims to value. To make matters worse, there is little or no economic or employment value for our province to be gained from it.

I would greatly appreciate your consideration of these concerns and the cited research above. My hope is that you would address this in the legislative assembly for consideration and review of this decision in light of the consequences for our native species. I would also appreciate your timely reply to these concerns.

Thank-you for your time.
__________________
The virtuous find delight in mountains, the wise in rivers.

-Confucius
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-08-2017, 11:26 AM
Okotokian's Avatar
Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcoderre View Post
In case you are really feeling like you might want to stir the political pot a little more, I wrote the letter below and send it to my MLA and to the Minister of the Environment Shannon Phillips (lethbridge.west@assembly.ab.ca) and the Minister of Agriculture Oneil Carlier (whitecourt.steanne@assembly.ab.ca). Feel free to copy and paste and email it to your MLA or any minister you see fit. (Also, I am not a "Political Guy" this is actually the first time I have every written a government member so I may not have gotten everything right in the wording)

Mr. Minister,

I am writing you today to express my concern over the clear cut logging plan slated to start this year near the Highwood Junction.

My main area of concern is the negative impact that this logging plan will have on the native fish species inhabiting the Highwood river watershed especially Etherington Creek. As I hope you are aware, to species native to Alberta live in this area and all already listed as "species at risk". These species would be Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi) and our provincial fish the Bull Trout (Salvelinus Confluentus). Both species have been extirpated from their full natural range and the Highwood watershed is one of the few places left in our province where these fish are able to survive, spawn and avoid hybridization with other species.

The area to be logged could easily cause increased sediment to enter the Highwood river watershed. This increased sediment load has been proven to smother the eggs of trout species (as was seen along Hidden Creek previously). This sediment will cause further harm to those species already under pressure from development in this area. This area is known to be prime habitat for the spawning and development of both species. I refer you to several pieces of research on this subject
Rodtka (2009) Status of Bull Trout in Alberta Status of Bull Trout in Alberta
Rees et. al. (2012) Bull Trout Conservation Management Plan 2012-2017 Bull Trout Conservation and Management Plan 2012-2017 pdf
Popowich et. al. (2009) Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys on the Elbow, Sheep, and Highwood Rivers Alberta - Trout Unlimited Canada Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys pdf
Cove et. al. (2009) Recovery Strategy for the Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi), Alberta Populations in Canada Recovery and Management Plan for Westslope Cutthroat Trout pdf

A seconday concern related to this matter is the hypocrisy of the NDP government in this matter. Premier Notley has repeatedly stated that your government chooses the environment first. This was stated when coal was to be phased out and again when the carbon tax was instituted. To then approve an out of province company to ravage an area of our province, process the lumber out of province, and leave behind an environmental time bomb for our native species and environment in general goes against everything your government claims to value. To make matters worse, there is little or no economic or employment value for our province to be gained from it.

I would greatly appreciate your consideration of these concerns and the cited research above. My hope is that you would address this in the legislative assembly for consideration and review of this decision in light of the consequences for our native species. I would also appreciate your timely reply to these concerns.

Thank-you for your time.
Thanks. I understand what you are saying. But how close to Etherington and other creeks is the cutting operation coming? Do you know? I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually asking. I don't know but it sounds like you might. Thanks.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:56 PM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default All I can find on the location

From the Western Wheel: "Patches of Trees south of Highway 541 along highway 940." That says to me the slopes along Etherington Creek. Several other articles have also referenced trap lines in this same area being effected. I also read mention of leaving a buffer line along the creeks, which would seem to indicate they are cutting right along the creek. Very sad.

The latest article is in the June 7 edition of the Western Wheel. The article is by Krista Conrad. Its on the front page. Hope this helps.
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:10 PM
Quiksilverj76 Quiksilverj76 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 68
Default Thanks for this

Kirby, this is absolutely great to see. Consider me in to assist with trying to help out this cause.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-08-2017, 10:02 PM
that-guy that-guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcoderre View Post
In case you are really feeling like you might want to stir the political pot a little more, I wrote the letter below and send it to my MLA and to the Minister of the Environment Shannon Phillips (lethbridge.west@assembly.ab.ca) and the Minister of Agriculture Oneil Carlier (whitecourt.steanne@assembly.ab.ca). Feel free to copy and paste and email it to your MLA or any minister you see fit. (Also, I am not a "Political Guy" this is actually the first time I have every written a government member so I may not have gotten everything right in the wording)

Mr. Minister,

I am writing you today to express my concern over the clear cut logging plan slated to start this year near the Highwood Junction.

My main area of concern is the negative impact that this logging plan will have on the native fish species inhabiting the Highwood river watershed especially Etherington Creek. As I hope you are aware, to species native to Alberta live in this area and all already listed as "species at risk". These species would be Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi) and our provincial fish the Bull Trout (Salvelinus Confluentus). Both species have been extirpated from their full natural range and the Highwood watershed is one of the few places left in our province where these fish are able to survive, spawn and avoid hybridization with other species.

The area to be logged could easily cause increased sediment to enter the Highwood river watershed. This increased sediment load has been proven to smother the eggs of trout species (as was seen along Hidden Creek previously). This sediment will cause further harm to those species already under pressure from development in this area. This area is known to be prime habitat for the spawning and development of both species. I refer you to several pieces of research on this subject
Rodtka (2009) Status of Bull Trout in Alberta Status of Bull Trout in Alberta
Rees et. al. (2012) Bull Trout Conservation Management Plan 2012-2017 Bull Trout Conservation and Management Plan 2012-2017 pdf
Popowich et. al. (2009) Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys on the Elbow, Sheep, and Highwood Rivers Alberta - Trout Unlimited Canada Fluvial Bull Trout Redd Surveys pdf
Cove et. al. (2009) Recovery Strategy for the Westslope Cutthroat Trout (Oncorhynchus clarkii lewisi), Alberta Populations in Canada Recovery and Management Plan for Westslope Cutthroat Trout pdf

A seconday concern related to this matter is the hypocrisy of the NDP government in this matter. Premier Notley has repeatedly stated that your government chooses the environment first. This was stated when coal was to be phased out and again when the carbon tax was instituted. To then approve an out of province company to ravage an area of our province, process the lumber out of province, and leave behind an environmental time bomb for our native species and environment in general goes against everything your government claims to value. To make matters worse, there is little or no economic or employment value for our province to be gained from it.

I would greatly appreciate your consideration of these concerns and the cited research above. My hope is that you would address this in the legislative assembly for consideration and review of this decision in light of the consequences for our native species. I would also appreciate your timely reply to these concerns.

Thank-you for your time.
Copied and sent in! The whole area should be protected right from the 40 all the way down to Bob Creek
__________________
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2017, 07:59 AM
Freddy Freddy is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 71
Default

Clear cuts are a good thing. Wild life does not get strangled out from over growth. Best hunting is in clearcuts a few years old.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:16 PM
Sedativ3 Sedativ3 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canmore
Posts: 129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Thanks. I understand what you are saying. But how close to Etherington and other creeks is the cutting operation coming? Do you know? I'm not being sarcastic. I am actually asking. I don't know but it sounds like you might. Thanks.
Here is the link to the news story with a map of the planned logging. Along Etherington and Cataract creeks.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/05/19...r-cutting-plan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:30 PM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default Thanks for finding this map and article!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedativ3 View Post
Here is the link to the news story with a map of the planned logging. Along Etherington and Cataract creeks.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/05/19...r-cutting-plan
I think the map says it all.
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:39 PM
MountainTi's Avatar
MountainTi MountainTi is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,255
Default

Looking at the map seems like a good chance to rejuvenate some old growth forest and create new habitat. That's always a good thing. Nice job of laying out the blocks
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:58 PM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
Default

Only reason I'd support any such thing is due to it is a BC logging company and wood is being taken to BC for processing, as a way to fight the anti-pipeline stance BC government and idiot protesters have.

But I wonder where is logging supposed to happen then, only in areas that you guys don't frequent?

There's no wildlife that's affected in other areas?

Should we stop logging in the entire province because it affects wildlife everywhere, or only in your preferred area?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:03 PM
MountainTi's Avatar
MountainTi MountainTi is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore View Post
Only reason I'd support any such thing is due to it is a BC logging company and wood is being taken to BC for processing, as a way to fight the anti-pipeline stance BC government and idiot protesters have.

But I wonder where is logging supposed to happen then, only in areas that you guys don't frequent?

There's no wildlife that's affected in other areas?

Should we stop logging in the entire province because it affects wildlife everywhere, or only in your preferred area?
That is a little surprising that it is Canfor doing it, and not Spray. Wonder why?
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:13 PM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default Not against logging, just the method being used.

In response to some of the comments, my concern here is the history (and a shameful one) of logging in ES1 (Hidden Creek being a prime example). We have seen before the effect of logging so close to prime trout habitat. The population of Oldman River Bull trout was severely affected by the logging that occurred along hidden creek. This clear cut and the roads built to access it, caused a massive surge of sediment into the creek that smothered the eggs of the spawning bull trout. This kind of thing will happen again with a clear cut. IF selective logging was employed instead, the damage and concern would be less as more root systems would remain intact and prevent the erosion of soil and the increased sediment load. The other concern is that the original plan was to happen over 5 years, which means that the "monitoring" the province planned to do would have been possible. Now the whole area is to be logged in 1 year. There is no way the process can be effectively monitored with that rate of harvest.

I agree that logging must happen, it is a vital industry, but there are less damaging ways to do it (i.e. selective logging) and this is not helping any Alberta industries either.
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-09-2017, 01:24 PM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
Default

Good info, thanks.

I don't see an issue with trying to mitigate the impact to water bodies for sure, if they were to leave a buffer around the water bodies, would that suffice?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-09-2017, 02:16 PM
Jigger Jigger is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiksilverj76 View Post
Kirby, this is absolutely great to see. Consider me in to assist with trying to help out this cause.
X2
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-09-2017, 02:50 PM
JReed's Avatar
JReed JReed is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 738
Default

Although i don't agree with the clearcut, looking at the map, looks like they're leaving a riparian buffer zone around the creeks
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:55 AM
kcoderre's Avatar
kcoderre kcoderre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 64
Default Thanks for all the discussion

Thanks to everyone for all their comments and discussion.

Yes there will be a riparian buffer zone around the creek, which will hopefully stave off some of the sediment from entering the creek, but given the topography of the area (steep hillsides) it will be essentially asking 10 trees to do the job of 100. At least there will be a buffer though. Hopefully the monitoring process will make sure that this actually goes to plan and does not end up like Hidden Creek.

For those who also signed the petition thank-you!
__________________
Kirby Coderre
aka MidLifeFlysis
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:00 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
Default

Just guessing.

The trees are probably ready for harvest before they become hollow and punky, if that happens, then they are no good for the mill.

Many of us here wounder about the dead standing trees across Canada, this sets things up for larger then normal forest fires,,, "could" that is.

Forests look nice and support all kinds of wild life along with us humans, but as these old growth forests age, they become less functional for critters as the over growth limits "in a way" new growth that would normally take place... Let's say a forest fire that starts a new cycle of everything that was once there.

Doo Noo as I'm not a land fellow of this information.

The Buffalo release at Leard by the river showed us what we humans missed out on.

The Buffalo were released on the West side of the river, but the thick forests prevent them from finding enough food, so they swam across the river back too the town since it had green lawns too feed on.

The smart folks could not figure this out till the old first Nations guy told them they forgot too make the Buffalo a home.

He lead these folks too the other side of the river deep into the trees and light a fire, it wasn't long before the trees were a blaze.

The next year the Buffalo left town too the new feeding grounds and forestry has been doing helicopter burns ever since. 14 years to date if I recall.

By nature or by humans the forests need recycling...

Like I mentioned, I'm not book smarts at this stuff, but folks will throw out gooder ideas on this topic as we all can learn something new.

I'm still a seed in the earth's time clock, once I live life full and am gone the planet would consider my time in seconds.

Not sure if it's wize too look at things from many different points of views, that way it allows us too grow old and maybe not wize. LOL.

From Don as learning continues
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:20 PM
JimPS JimPS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of North South
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
That is a little surprising that it is Canfor doing it, and not Spray. Wonder why?
That's a good question.

Well, if you believe the anti's - they'll tell you SLS has at best 10 years to stay in business clear cutting the Southern Rockies.

There's ever growing opposition to their plans for fiber production over watershed health and water production and recreation. The opposition claims it is already costing SLS a lot of money and many headaches every time they want to log anything in the south.

They have some pretty compelling arguments that the tipping point is rapidly approaching where recreation and water production economics and related jobs are rapidly replacing the economic value of large scale industrial timber production and timber jobs. They claim this is the future and it's already spreading northward.

They for see "community based" timber production and industrial logging expertise, equipment and manpower being primarily deployed for restorative and rehabilitative forestry work in the not too distant future... whatever that means.

You're probably safe in your West Central logging employment as long as the trees are still there to harvest. The battle line for the anti's imaginary Eastern Slopes cut off line for high value watershed and recreation appears to be south of the RDR.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-27-2017, 06:35 PM
Grump Grump is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 127
Default

Signed
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
highwood river, logging

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.