home back up generator

Stubb · #1 10-17-2017, 12:45 PM

I figure since there's a lot of rural people on this forum you guys could shed some light on this for me.
Due to some recent power outages i want to have the option of starting up a back up generator to run the house if need be. I've talked to the power company and they have a transfer switch available that can go on their pole that's in my yard which is fine. I figured on buying a cheaper generator since i will rarely use it and noise isn't an issue, not to mention i don't want to spend 5G on something that runs once a year. Anyway so i thought i had everything figured out until i read that high efficiency furnaces don't like "dirty" power which is what these lower end generators put out. So now i think i have two options spend a lot more on a higher end genny or put in a 20 amp UPS (which is about $2000) after the cheaper genny.
My question is who out there has a HE furnace and has a genny set up to run it, and what does that look like?

thanks

densa44 · #2 10-17-2017, 12:49 PM

It is not as simple as just buying a cheap generator. I know that already. I am hoping to hear about some solution that will run the furnace, and if possible generate power from the nat gas feed I have.

The last outage lasted 24 hours and I don't think that will be a once in a life time event.

Albertadiver · #3 10-17-2017, 12:55 PM

Just did a quick check online, and before tax, shipping, and install this one will run my entire home nicely, at around $3700.00

https://homegenerators.cummins.com/g...ize-calculator

https://d1o3iyorcny2j0.cloudfront.ne...s/RS17A-EN.pdf

Not much more than a big portable unit....

DustDee · #4 10-17-2017, 01:40 PM

In the industrial world, we often put a powerline filter or conditioner on the power source for sensitive loads. You could either get one that is only for the fancy furnace, or you could get one that is sized for the output of the generator. Just do an internet search for power line conditioner and you will get lot of information and options.

Stubb · #5 10-17-2017, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustDee

In the industrial world, we often put a powerline filter or conditioner on the power source for sensitive loads. You could either get one that is only for the fancy furnace, or you could get one that is sized for the output of the generator. Just do an internet search for power line conditioner and you will get lot of information and options.

I think this is basically what i found which was $2100 and at that cost i may as well put the money into a better generator. The problem is i need something with a 20 amp capacity as apparently the furnace can draw up to 17 amp. Seems high to me but that's what the supplier said.

ChickakooKookoo · #6 10-17-2017, 03:13 PM

I have a buddy selling Honda 6500's for $1000 right now. He works on a construction site and the job is winding down so they're not repairing any small engines and tossing them out. He's a HD Mechanic so he's fixing them up and selling them. The 2000 Inverter I bought from him works perfectly. PM if you want his #.

Stubb · #7 10-17-2017, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

I have a buddy selling Honda 6500's for $1000 right now. He works on a construction site and the job is winding down so they're not repairing any small engines and tossing them out. He's a HD Mechanic so he's fixing them up and selling them. The 2000 Inverter I bought from him works perfectly. PM if you want his #.

OK thanks i'll think about that

bessiedog · #8 10-17-2017, 03:31 PM

Small genny just outside my patio door.
Run my connector chord to my furnace switch.... splice wires together so power only goes to furnace.

Turn on genny. I gots heat.

Run the BBQ for food....
Water is running good... so we're set.

Bring on da zombies!

SamSteele · #9 10-17-2017, 03:54 PM

Most of the folks that have cabins in Northern Sask where we are have the natural gas powered Generac units. I believe Costco.ca has them. They automatically kick on within seconds of a power outage and can fully power your home without even noticing that the power went out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ken07AOVette · #10 10-17-2017, 04:10 PM

I have a Costco General 17kw natural gas backup. It will run everything including freezer, a/c and dryer with lots to spare. Installation is not cheap, count on close to a grand but there is nothing more slick. All I have done is changed oil once.
I also have UPS units on the computers, tv's, routers. If we are watching tv the only thing that lets us know is the click of the UPS and hearing the generator wind up. Our furnace is a 97% efficient model and the generator runs it perfectly.

cowmanbob · #11 10-17-2017, 05:36 PM

The generac natural gas system is the way to go.

Ken07AOVette · #12 10-17-2017, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I have a Costco General 17kw natural gas backup. It will run everything including freezer, a/c and dryer with lots to spare. Installation is not cheap, count on close to a grand but there is nothing more slick. All I have done is changed oil once.
I also have UPS units on the computers, tv's, routers. If we are watching tv the only thing that lets us know is the click of the UPS and hearing the generator wind up. Our furnace is a 97% efficient model and the generator runs it perfectly.

GENERAC

(I hate auto correct)

gmcmax05 · #13 10-17-2017, 06:08 PM

Installed a 27KW LPG Generac last fall when the new 5000 sq ft house was done. It's liquid cooled and works awesome, powers everything in the house as good as being on the grid.

Flight01 · #14 10-17-2017, 08:01 PM

I will check with my dad but he always had a 4500 watt gen that he would run all Lights, fridge and freezer as well as furnace. Don’t think it could do the dryer or kitchen electric range though.... I will ask for some details. Fridge and freezer are very low draw...
Become very efficient With what is on in your house and we had no issues at all . Ran that thing all day for two days straight after one nasty ice storm years ago.

Be sure to be off the grid when running your grid unless you’ve set it up right. We had to shut off main breaker and power back into the breaker box though a 220 v plug. When neighbours power was back on we would shut Down gen, unplug, open main breaker and go back on the grid.

vic1 · #15 10-18-2017, 09:33 AM

I don’t have any experience with running furnace with an external generator but theoretically it could be a very simple and cheap task. Switch off main breaker at the panel and all other breakers except the breaker for the furnace and plug that you would hock up power from the generator. This plug (example Garage plug) would have to be on the same phase as your furnace. Make an extension cord with both male plugs and connect the generator with garage plug. With this set up there are two very important safety thoughts that you would have to remember: always disconnect first plug from the generator, make sure that everything is disconnected before switching main breaker back on. Remember that playing with electricity could be very dangerous!
Vic

Stubb · #16 10-18-2017, 10:05 AM

thanks guys, sounds like the natural gas systems are the ultimate. now i just have to talk myself into spending a lot more than planned.

Dean2 · #17 10-18-2017, 10:13 AM

Depending on how long the power is out for, how long before you lose the Natural gas feed to the house. I know in B.C. a lot of areas have electric powered booster pumps to up[ the pressure in the gas liens for transmission, for some reason they don't seem to have enough pressure to do it without the booster. Is this the same in Alberta? If not, how long will the NG run for after power goes out?

SamSteele · #18 10-18-2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubb

thanks guys, sounds like the natural gas systems are the ultimate. now i just have to talk myself into spending a lot more than planned.

Another option is to just put in a wood fireplace/stove. No gas or electricity needed to keep the house warm...

SS

L2H Lance · #19 10-18-2017, 11:42 AM

I do the same thing as vic1 but I just plug in first then start gen and shut off gen before I unplug works well for furnace tv and some lights always have to make sure breaker off at pole first.

Stubb · #20 10-18-2017, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamSteele

Another option is to just put in a wood fireplace/stove. No gas or electricity needed to keep the house warm...

SS

I have a large wood burning fireplace, a couple gas fireplaces and gas oven and stove. At -30 the house will still get down to about 7 degrees which will obviously stop anything from freezing but its not very comfortable. When it was just me in the house it didn't matter but with a wife and newborn now I want a better backup plan.

densa44 · #21 10-18-2017, 01:20 PM

There was a time in my life that I'd have picked Bessiedog's solution and thanks for adding it to the list. As I was reading this post last night the power went off for 8 hours. This is the second time in October. I think I'll see what we can do about getting a generac one installed.

Thanks guys.

coreya3212 · #22 10-18-2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic1

I don’t have any experience with running furnace with an external generator but theoretically it could be a very simple and cheap task. Switch off main breaker at the panel and all other breakers except the breaker for the furnace and plug that you would hock up power from the generator. This plug (example Garage plug) would have to be on the same phase as your furnace. Make an extension cord with both male plugs and connect the generator with garage plug. With this set up there are two very important safety thoughts that you would have to remember: always disconnect first plug from the generator, make sure that everything is disconnected before switching main breaker back on. Remember that playing with electricity could be very dangerous!
Vic

Against the rules and dangerous.

Ken07AOVette · #23 10-18-2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by densa44

There was a time in my life that I'd have picked Bessiedog's solution and thanks for adding it to the list. As I was reading this post last night the power went off for 8 hours. This is the second time in October. I think I'll see what we can do about getting a generac one installed.

Thanks guys.

We went without power for 27 hours in 2 days, 14 off 1 on 13 off. That was the breaking point for the wife.
We also bought a natural gas range/stove.
I do not have a nat gas fireplace.

CritterCommander · #24 10-18-2017, 05:01 PM

For those that installed a nat gas system, were you able to get enough gas to the generator from the riser at the house, or did you have to install a dedicated line for the genset?

Dmay · #25 10-19-2017, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CritterCommander

For those that installed a nat gas system, were you able to get enough gas to the generator from the riser at the house, or did you have to install a dedicated line for the genset?

Forget the size of mine, but runs the whole yard, with vehicles plugged in, and it just runs off the riser at the house.

Freedom55 · #26 10-19-2017, 08:26 AM

...we have a complete isolated system (Coleman 6500w) that requires us to plug the freezers and fridge to dedicated receptacles. Each room in the house has a dedicated receptacles for lamps and of course the television. This unit lives in the garage and has its own breaker panel.

The furnace has a by-pass switch so no electricity can return to the grid. When the power goes off, so do the village's water pumps so we need a constantly replenished water supply for flushing but otherwise we manage nicely.

A manual set-up for sure but cheaper than an automatic system and not dangerous to the power linemen. The only issue is having enough gasoline stored at home because the filling stations also go out of power so those pumps don't function either.

Free

roger · #27 10-19-2017, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcmax05

It's liquid cooled and works awesome, powers everything in the house as good as being on the grid.

if it would be practical and depending where the genny is located in relation to the consumer.... use your slab heat as the genny's radiator and recover that heat as well. either through a plate exchanger or direct glycol if its compatible.
this same plan could be used to keep the genny warm using the slab heat all winter instead of electrical heat, this might help save the engine if its an autostart.