Proof or residency for hunting license

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CNP

Last time I heard voting wasn't mandatory

Eligible to vote not mandatory voting
Cat

[honda610]

CNP you seem pretty quick to argue all the ideas that have been brought up.....why not use some of your endless wisdom to come up with a solution instead. If you like 10 plus years for an antelope draw and 4 plus years for moose then please continue to be argumentative. Have a great long weekend were ever you say you live.

[brendan's dad]

So if I live in Alberta and then purchase a recreational property in BC, can I hunt as a resident in both provinces since I own a residence in both provinces?
Would I not be paying property taxes in both provinces?

Not say it is right or wrong, just asking the question. I know dozens of peope that live in Alberta then spend 4-5 months in BC each year at recreational properties.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by honda610

CNP you seem pretty quick to argue all the ideas that have been brought up.....why not use some of your endless wisdom to come up with a solution instead. If you like 10 plus years for an antelope draw and 4 plus years for moose then please continue to be argumentative. Have a great long weekend were ever you say you live.

I haven't been arguing, I've been expressing opinions. Click this link: https://www.voterlink.ab.ca/

All you need to do in order to vote in AB is complete the online registration. You need a DL to complete the info. Voter link is no more secure than obtaining a hunting license.

[Dacotensis]

Originally Posted by petew

Drivers license , Health care card.

A person should need more than these.

A tax return with an Alberta address and 2 years wait time.


Also along with that excel document that was mentioned, weed out the anti hunters who put in for the draws every year and clog the system with their fraudulent applications.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by West O'5

Ummmmm......yes I can....sorta?

Wow only one nibble,fishn kinda slow this morn,lol.



I'll explain....
I moved to AB 6 years ago,full time resident,this is where I live,work,play,pay taxes etc....indisputably an Alberta resident.

Born n raised in NB.
NB has an exemption in their hunting regs/F&W Act under the definition of resident that reads:

(a) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(b) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of two weeks immediately prior to making an application for a licence, where that person proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he was required to take up residence in the Province as a result of being transferred to the Province by his employer;
(c) a person who is taking educational training of a three-month minimum duration within the Province and has been residing in the Province for a two-week period immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(d) a person who resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to taking educational training outside the Province and who is continuing such education;
(e) a person who proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he has resided in the Province for the purpose of employment for an aggregate period of six months within the twelve months immediately preceding the making of an application;
(f) a person who was born in the Province and who owns real property in the Province;
(g) a person who was born in the Province and who is a member of the Canadian Forces or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; or
(h) a person who has his or her principal place of residence in the Province and is the holder of a valid New Brunswick driver’s licence or a valid photo identification card issued by the Minister of Justice and Public Safety and referred to in the regulations under the Financial Administration Act;

I was born in NB AND still own real property in NB,small acreage and cabin) that I pay NB property tax on....therefore,even though my principal place of residence is AB,I can still hunt and fish in NB as a resident.
Also if was to join Armed Forces,stationed in Ont with principal residence in AB,I could hunt all 3.

The "born" in NB clause is to prevent non-residents from simply buying a recreational property and calling themselves residents,most likely originally intended to protect the Guiding/Outfitting industry by preventing wealthy 'muricans from skirting the mandatory guide rules for Atlantic salmon angling and all hunting.

All that said,I have no real desire to hunt in NB these days other then perhaps spend a week in deer camp with lifelong buddies...but the deer hunting in AB is exponentially better,NB's deer herd has been decimated by forest mismanagement over the last 3 decades from outstanding in the 80s with 250K deer to pathetic at present with an estimated 50-60K head.Moose tags are too hard to draw for too short a season to for me travel 5000km when I can bowhunt moose and or get an undersubscribed tag every year here.I only have so many vacation days/year for hunting,I'd rather spend them in AB chasing elk and deer with healthy numbers.
.......but when I visit in summer months,I do buy resident salmon licence,I am a licensed guide in NB sure as hell ain't gonna hire one to go fishn in the Home pool,lol.

I have to say West that you have really got my investigative radar turned on. ai take it theses rules and exemptions are printed somewhere else other than printed in your provincial hunting regs.
Makes me wonder if there is a list of regs and exceptions for albertan born people who own property in AB and pay AB provincial and city taxes.
Going to do a real search for something like that next week. Happy family day everyone. Hoping my back is up to pulling in a few burbot this weekend.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I agree with your point about non res not being able to hunt certain species. As for the rest, not really relevannt. If you Can't hunt a certain speciesbor draw for one, pay a guide to take you. Like I said money only difference I've done a lot of out of extended periods of out of province work, and though AB was still my primary residence, and spent as much or more in the new town I was in. How the taxes worked were never my dept. I will say I took every legal advantage that I could to hunt and fish in whatever "part" of Canada I was .in. Don't forget, we are all supposed to be Canadians and so have some tiny rights to begin with.
I'll say again, this "dupple dipping' is blown way out of propportion.
I would really like even a good guesstamite on how many people of these Double Dippers there really are, and what their annual harvest would look like. I'm betting not near as bad as everyone things. Keep in mind I'm talking hunteres whose main crime is hunting in 2 provinces. I'm not talking about people who have no regard for the law and slaughter at will. Thats a different can of worms. I' startiing to word my slurs

And once again, it is obvious that you haven't read the regulations. If you look at the allowable resident license combinations, and compare it to the allowable non resident Canadian license combinations, you will see that a resident can apply for and hold many more licenses than a non resident Canadian. And no, you can't just hire an outfitter to supply you with any of the licenses that a resident can hold, because there are no outfitter allocations for some of those special licenses, and outfitter or not, a non resident can't legally hunt those animals in Alberta.
As to the double dipping, if you had ever lived or worked in the oilsands,as I did for many years, you would realize that several thousands of the workers maintain a primary residence elsewhere. In Fort McMurray, these people are referred to as the gray population, because while they spend a great deal of time in the community, it's not their official residence. Some fly in and out regularly, and some actually spend more time in Alberta, but of the ones that hunt, many do purchase resident tags in multiple provinces.

I have to say West that you have really got my investigative radar turned on. ai take it theses rules and exemptions are printed somewhere else other than printed in your provincial hunting regs.
Makes me wonder if there is a list of regs and exceptions for albertan born people who own property in AB and pay AB provincial and city taxes.
Going to do a real search for something like that next week.

Good luck with that, the definition of an Alberta resident is clearly explained in the regulations, and there are no exceptions, just because you own property in Alberta.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

A person should need more than these.

A tax return with an Alberta address and 2 years wait time.


Also along with that excel document that was mentioned, weed out the anti hunters who put in for the draws every year and clog the system with their fraudulent applications.

What is the purpose of a two year wait time?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And once again, it is obvious that you haven't read the regulations. If you look at the allowable resident license combinations, and compare it to the allowable non resident Canadian license combinations, you will see that a resident can apply for and hold many more licenses than a non resident Canadian. And no, you can't just hire an outfitter to supply you with any of the licenses that a resident can hold, because there are no outfitter allocations for some of those special licenses, and outfitter or not, a non resident can't legally hunt those animals in Alberta.
As to the double dipping, if you had ever lived or worked in the oilsands,as I did for many years, you would realize that several thousands of the workers maintain a primary residence elsewhere. In Fort McMurray, these people are referred to as the gray population, because while they spend a great deal of time in the community, it's not their official residence. Some fly in and out regularly, and some actually spend more time in Alberta, but of the ones that hunt, many do purchase resident tags in multiple provinces.



Good luck with that, the definition of an Alberta resident is clearly explained in the regulations, and there are no exceptions, just because you own property in Alberta.

And once again by coming off like a condencsending know it all, it is you that clearly prooves he hasn't read the regs. I could cite some examples of regs that are poorly written, contradictory or just don't make sense, but hey, thats been beat to death.
To make it very simply for you please refer to page 11 of the 2016 hunting regs. You will see a section titled "Disclaimers". That section is there to let people know that the Alberta Guide to Hunting is bassically a summary of the hunting regs in AB. It is not a legal document, nor does it have all the Statutes or regulations listed in it. You will understand if someone decided to do some research of their own rather then simply take your say so.
You know what? Perhaps the law should be changed so that people who were born in AB, own property in AB, pay taxes in AB but happen to have their primary residence elesewhere should be allowed to hunt in AB like an AB resident
PS.... A quick glance at the regs do show that there are a few species that a non res cannot hunt (like antlerless moose and bison), but hardly the reduction in species choice to make me change my argument that the real only difference between Resident, Hosted or Guided is the amount of money you pay. Heck they can even hunt Antelope, which I found surprising.
Someday we will hav to discuss these "several thousand" gray (grey?) workers, and how many double dipped. I real do find the whole scenario interesting.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

And once again by coming off like a condencsending know it all, it is you that clearly prooves he hasn't read the regs. I could cite some examples of regs that are poorly written, contradictory or just don't make sense, but hey, thats been beat to death.
To make it very simply for you please refer to page 11 of the 2016 hunting regs. You will see a section titled "Disclaimers". That section is there to let people know that the Alberta Guide to Hunting is bassically a summary of the hunting regs in AB. It is not a legal document, nor does it have all the Statutes or regulations listed in it. You will understand if someone decided to do some research of their own rather then simply take your say so.
You know what? Perhaps the law should be changed so that people who were born in AB, own property in AB, pay taxes in AB but happen to have their primary residence elesewhere should be allowed to hunt in AB like an AB resident
PS.... A quick glance at the regs do show that there are a few species that a non res cannot hunt (like antlerless moose and bison), but hardly the reduction in species choice to make me change my argument that the real only difference between Resident, Hosted or Guided is the amount of money you pay. Heck they can even hunt Antelope, which I found surprising.
Someday we will hav to discuss these "several thousand" gray (grey?) workers, and how many double dipped. I real do find the whole scenario interesting.

There are more than a few licenses that a resident can purchase that a nob resident Canadian can't purchase. Bison, goat , non trophy pronghorn, antlerless elk,212 elk, antlerless moose, calf moose,turkey, and a whole assortment of deer licenses such as antlerless mule deer, Camp Wainwright deer, Foothills deer, and supplementary tags that a resident can purchase, that a non resident can't. A resident can use these tags to kill two elk and many deer, while a non resident can only get one elk license and two deer licenses. A resident can purchase many more tags, and harvest many more animals in a single year, than a non resident can. Those two pages in the regulations make this very easy to see.
As to having the regulations changed to allow all people that own land in Alberta to purchase resident tags, go right ahead and plead your case to the people in charge, and see where it gets you. If you were successful, there would probably be a stampede of non residents purchasing a tiny piece of land just to be able to purchase resident licenses. This in turn would increase draw times even more , and there would be even fewer over the counter tags available for residents.

[catnthehat]

I know lots of Alberta residents , many who were born here , who do not own land but rent .
You two need to take your aggression towards each other offline .
Cat

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by CNP

What is the purpose of a two year wait time?

A minimum time spent as a resident should be in place, to define "resident" as only certain draws are available to the "residents" of Alberta.

LC

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A minimum time spent as a resident should be in place, to define "resident" as only certain draws are available to the "residents" of Alberta.

LC

I see you evaded the big part of the question. Justify why you think a person should have to wait two years.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I know lots of Alberta residents , many who were born here , who do not own land but rent .
You two need to take your aggression towards each other offline .
Cat

There is absoultly nothing wrong with being a Resident who rents rather then owns property in AB, and I certainly never said or suggested otherwise.
Being born in AB and owning land in AB while having a primary residence outside of AB is a completly different topic.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by CNP

I see you evaded the big part of the question. Justify why you think a person should have to wait two years.

I never said two years was a good time frame...but some time frame is required otherwise any transient population can claim residency.

LC

[Big Red 250]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So if I live in Alberta and then purchase a recreational property in BC, can I hunt as a resident in both provinces since I own a residence in both provinces?
Would I not be paying property taxes in both provinces?

Not say it is right or wrong, just asking the question. I know dozens of peope that live in Alberta then spend 4-5 months in BC each year at recreational properties.

To be able to hunt in BC, you need a Card with your Hunter's number & name on it.You have to reside in the province for 6 months to qualify for the Hunter's card, having something with the date on proving you live here. Such as a Hydro bill or phone bill or driver's licence. You also need proof of passing a Hunters Safety course or similar from another province. They do not accept all provinces safety courses.. When you get a BC driving licence, they take the one you have from a different province.
When I moved to BC, I was told they do not accept Hunter Safety from Alberta.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I never said two years was a good time frame...but some time frame is required otherwise any transient population can claim residency.

LC

You know, I never gave it much thought (because I never had to), but once again it is the way the regs are written that are causing all the problem. The term "only or primary residence in AB" seems so unclear. There might be a legal definition of what this term means in the Wildlife Act, or perhaps in the Voting Act or some such "act" somewhere, but according to the regs as I read them on page 15 of the Hunting Regs, I am a "Resident" the day I move into my new accomadations in AB. No minimun time requried at all.
Just one more vague reg for people to argue and complain about. Has to be at least 1o of them in our reg books.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I never said two years was a good time frame...but some time frame is required otherwise any transient population can claim residency.

LC

What amount of wait time? There is no amount of time that "fixes" anything. I imagine that transients have been here for many years? A one or two year transient doesn't even seem likely. So in my mind, these wait times serve to penalize honest people, more than weed out fraudsters. We already have two classes of hunters in AB.........we don't need to invent a third class, a class that says you aren't entitled as much as another because you haven't lived here longer than I have. Alberta entitlement at work....

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CNP

What amount of wait time? There is no amount of time that "fixes" anything. I imagine that transients have been here for many years? A one or two year transient doesn't even seem likely. So in my mind, these wait times serve to penalize honest people, more than weed out fraudsters. We already have two classes of hunters in AB.........we don't need to invent a third class, a class that says you aren't entitled as much as another because you haven't lived here longer than I have. Alberta entitlement at work....

Resident licenses have nothing to do with a class system but with allowing hunters with the proper residency for a particular Province to hunt More animals without a guide or hunter host.

However I think you know ( at least I hope you do) full well what it is about and just arguing the opposite side.
Cat

[MK2750]

I think you people are a little jealous and misinformed about the abuses.

The vast majority of the double dippers are legal Alberta residents. There is no sense in moving to Alberta, spend a couple of months working and then go home. You would have no job to come back to and you would barely cover your moving expenses.

What does happen, is a legal resident of Alberta goes back to their original home on holidays and goes hunting as a resident of that Provence with friends and family. This is not extremely common however as most can only afford one holiday a year and prefer the summer months. Someone hunting illegally in another Provence is hardly a concern for Albertans.

Another abuse is relatives coming to Alberta strictly on holidays and going hunting with a legal Alberta resident. This one should be easy to stop but it is not (or at least was not) investigated or prosecuted.

My late father use to come out here and go hunting with me. He was immediately issued a WIN card as you need one to buy licences. Once in possession of the card, regular resident licences were issued without question. In fact he had to insist on non resident licences and had arguments with shop owners that insisted that if he had an Alberta WIN card he should buy resident licences only.

I don't know if they still issue WIN cards to non residents, but if they do, a simple change to the card that clearly stated non resident WIN would solve the problem.

A wait time is not something I agree with. No one should miss a hunting season or pay extra because they move to a new Provence. An AB drivers licence should be good enough IMO.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I think you people are a little jealous and misinformed about the abuses.

The vast majority of the double dippers are legal Alberta residents. There is no sense in moving to Alberta, spend a couple of months working and then go home. You would have no job to come back to and you would barely cover your moving expenses.

What does happen, is a legal resident of Alberta goes back to their original home on holidays and goes hunting as a resident of that Provence with friends and family. This is not extremely common however as most can only afford one holiday a year and prefer the summer months. Someone hunting illegally in another Provence is hardly a concern for Albertans.

Another abuse is relatives coming to Alberta strictly on holidays and going hunting with a legal Alberta resident. This one should be easy to stop but it is not (or at least was not) investigated or prosecuted.

My late father use to come out here and go hunting with me. He was immediately issued a WIN card as you need one to buy licences. Once in possession of the card, regular resident licences were issued without question. In fact he had to insist on non resident licences and had arguments with shop owners that insisted that if he had an Alberta WIN card he should buy resident licences only.

I don't know if they still issue WIN cards to non residents, but if they do, a simple change to the card that clearly stated non resident WIN would solve the problem.

A wait time is not something I agree with. No one should miss a hunting season or pay extra because they move to a new Provence. An AB drivers licence should be good enough IMO.

In many cases, those people that work in Alberta, still list their out of province home as their primary residence. I know several people that have lived in camp for years, but they vote and pay their taxes in another province. Others rent with friends or relatives in Alberta, and they also pay taxes and vote in another province. Certainly some of these people could claim Alberta as the location of their primary residence, but they don't do that, so legally, they are not Alberta residents. And I do know that some of these people do purchase resident licenses, and enter the draws as Alberta residents. And I also know many people that fly in and our of Alberta to work, on a regular basis, but some also declare the out of province home as their legal residence. Again, some of these people provide the address that they stay in Alberta, in order to purchase resident tags. If you lived in Fort McMurray, you would see that this is actually more common than many people realize. The only way that I see to stop this, is for all provinces to enter their resident hunter names in a given database, and then go after the people that purchase resident licenses in provinces where they don't qualify, but apparently, the various governments have no interest in doing so.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

In many cases, those people that work in Alberta, still list their out of province home as their primary residence. I know several people that have lived in camp for years, but they vote and pay their taxes in another province. Others rent with friends or relatives in Alberta, and they also pay taxes and vote in another province. Certainly some of these people could claim Alberta as the location of their primary residence, but they don't do that, so legally, they are not Alberta residents. And I do know that some of these people do purchase resident licenses, and enter the draws as Alberta residents. And I also know many people that fly in and our of Alberta to work, on a regular basis, but some also declare the out of province home as their legal residence. Again, some of these people provide the address that they stay in Alberta, in order to purchase resident tags. If you lived in Fort McMurray, you would see that this is actually more common than many people realize. The only way that I see to stop this, is for all provinces to enter their resident hunter names in a given database, and then go after the people that purchase resident licenses in provinces where they don't qualify, but apparently, the various governments have no interest in doing so.

And this is my point as it is not Alberta they are cheating as they spend most of their time here. It is the Provence they go back to and hunt. As far as taxes go, we all throw our money into the same federal abyss and the money raised from hunting licences stays in the Provence where purchased.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I have to say West that you have really got my investigative radar turned on. ai take it theses rules and exemptions are printed somewhere else other than printed in your provincial hunting regs.
Makes me wonder if there is a list of regs and exceptions for albertan born people who own property in AB and pay AB provincial and city taxes.
Going to do a real search for something like that next week. Happy family day everyone. Hoping my back is up to pulling in a few burbot this weekend.

Ummm yes....aside from the annual NB Huntings Regs Summary that you can pick up at any Canadian Tire.....which is exactly that,a summary of the actual laws....it is printed in the NB F&W Act....the actual laws.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

And this is my point as it is not Alberta they are cheating as they spend most of their time here. It is the Provence they go back to and hunt. As far as taxes go, we all throw our money into the same federal abyss and the money raised from hunting licences stays in the Provence where purchased.

Because they still declare their legal residence where their wives and children live, which is in a province other than Alberta , they are not legally Alberta residents, regardless of where they spend most of their time. I was referring to provincial taxes, not federal taxes. I hear some of them complain how much they pay in provincial taxes, yet they won't move their families here and become Alberta residents.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Because they still declare their legal residence where their wives and children live, which is in a province other than Alberta , they are not legally Alberta residents, regardless of where they spend most of their time. I was referring to provincial taxes, not federal taxes. I hear some of them complain how much they pay in provincial taxes, yet they won't move their families here and become Alberta residents.

None of which has anything to do with the abuse of wildlife. If a guy lives here most of the year, pays for his licenses and contributes to the Alberta economy, I say go hunting.

It's the people in the other Provinces that should be complaining.

I would bet there is 10 times the abuse on the Saskatchewan and BC boarders as those pesky easterners you guys are so concerned about.

I find it hilarious how Albertans, especially those from the Fort Mac areas are so quick to jump on the Newfies. If there wasn't Newfies involved we wouldn't hear squat. It all goes back to the "great" King Ralph and his soap box rant about sending easterners home. I wonder what Fort Mac would look like with out the massive contributions of those hated easterners.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

None of which has anything to do with the abuse of wildlife. If a guy lives here most of the year, pays for his licenses and contributes to the Alberta economy, I say go hunting.

It's the people in the other Provinces that should be complaining.

I would bet there is 10 times the abuse on the Saskatchewan and BC boarders as those pesky easterners you guys are so concerned about.

I find it hilarious how Albertans, especially those from the Fort Mac areas are so quick to jump on the Newfies. If there wasn't Newfies involved we wouldn't hear squat. It all goes back to the "great" King Ralph and his soap box rant about sending easterners home. I wonder what Fort Mac would look like with out the massive contributions of those hated easterners.

You might be okay with the person going hunting as a resident, but that doesn't change the legality of whether he qualifies as a resident if he claims his home in another province as his legal residence.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You might be okay with the person going hunting as a resident, but that doesn't change the legality of whether he qualifies as a resident if he claims his home in another province as his legal residence.

You are right of course, but I don't see this as being an issue and think there are serious abuses facing our wildlife that should take priority.

I believe it should be perfectly legal for a resident of one Province to visit his home Province without restriction. It is not so much the added cost as I think most wouldn't mind dropping a few more dollars. It is the restrictions like requiring a guide or hunter host. Most that were born and raised hunting in a Province would have no issues hunting there without being guided or needing a host.

I would like to see all hunting less restrictive to encourage more into the fold. I believe it is the only way to make hunting more "socially acceptable" and insure non hunting antis do not become the vast majority in the future.

I would bet money that more people have left the sport because they were forced to relocate for work than any other reason. They don't have anyone to go with, don't know where to go and don't understand the new Provincial regulations. We should be meeting these folks at the plane and encouraging them to engage in the sport rather than putting up more restrictive barriers.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If other Provinces would reciprocate and allow out of Province Canadian residents hunt the wildlife contained in their borders that would be nice....but one only has to look East one Province to see what LIMITATIONS can accomplish as far as quality and herd health goes. Saskatchewan saves its elk, moose and mule deer for "residents" only and the quality of the animals there shows.

LC

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If other Provinces would reciprocate and allow out of Province Canadian residents hunt the wildlife contained in their borders that would be nice....but one only has to look East one Province to see what LIMITATIONS can accomplish as far as quality and herd health goes. Saskatchewan saves its elk, moose and mule deer for "residents" only and the quality of the animals there shows.

LC

Are there really limitations to those from one Province east? I have heard 10 times more stories of guys going back to the farm to hunt in Saskatchewan then any other Province.

I would never suggest one should be able to go to any Province any time and hunt unrestricted. I am saying it shouldn't be an issue to return to your original home Province and hunt. I also think that new comers should be given the benefit of a doubt when working here and holding an Alberta drivers licence.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Are there really limitations to those from one Province east? I have heard 10 times more stories of guys going back to the farm to hunt in Saskatchewan then any other Province.

I would never suggest one should be able to go to any Province any time and hunt unrestricted. I am saying it shouldn't be an issue to return to your original home Province and hunt. I also think that new comers should be given the benefit of a doubt when working here and holding an Alberta drivers licence.

Alberta residents born in Alberta with no family or farm ties to Saskatchewan cannot hunt certain species in Saskatchewan, however Saskatchewan residents can hunt many of the same species here as guests.

LC