Proof or residency for hunting license

[CNP]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

That is where it gets unraveled
A person could be working here, paying taxes , get a hunting licence, but actually get a lisence in another province at the same time .
Cat

You can't sort that out. For example all you need to get a DL is a DL from out of province and a utility bill............ and that will get you a health care card. Ratting people out is really the only way. And enforcement............something the govt is weak on. I'm going on the good conscience of people who do things legally........and that would be someone who really moves here, not a transient who breaks the law. To do otherwise is penalizing Albertans because some guys break the rules........don't we complain about that all the time? A guys gets hurt on a quad and we all get to wear helmets.......ATVers abuse trails and we all get banned........we complain about that and at the same time impose penalties on new Albertans (real ones) because some transient guys abuse the system.

[QIsley]

Make it an offense to hold Alberta Resident licence and a resident licence in another jurisdiction during the same season to enforce double dipping....

Require first time hunters to attend an office and prove eligibility, (should have to pass the Alberta course to hunt here, our rules are different and we have different species then lots of jurisdictions) prior to obtaining Alberta resident licences rather then the current honor system...

Couple of simple changes that could be done to clean the system up a bit, requires will to fix it...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CNP

You can't sort that out. For example all you need to get a DL is a DL from out of province and a utility bill............ and that will get you a health care card. Ratting people out is really the only way. And enforcement............something the govt is weak on. I'm going on the good conscience of people who do things legally........and that would be someone who really moves here, not a transient, who breaks the law. To do otherwise is penalizing Albertans because some guys break the rules........don't we complain about that all the time? A guys gets hurt on a quad and we all get to wear helmets.......ATVers abuse trails and we all get banned........we complain about that and at the same time impose penalties on new Albertans (real ones) because some transient guys abuse the system.

I have no idea why you are trying to compare These different scenarios , because they could involve anybody .
I do agree with you however that enforcement of our laws is key and some sort of tracking database would help tremendously .

Personally speaking if a person has a driver's lisence and health card and us paying taxes here he is a resident to my way of thinking .
I can't do a lot if he decides to go elsewhere and hunt as a resident there , much the same as I can't do much if he decides to break the law by having two drivers licenses that I do not know about
Cat

[CNP]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have no idea why you are trying to compare These different scenarios , because they could involve anybody .
I do agree with you however that enforcement of our laws is key and some sort of tracking database would help tremendously .

Personally speaking if a person has a driver's lisence and health card and us paying taxes here he is a resident to my way of thinking .
I can't do a lot if he decides to go elsewhere and hunt as a resident there , much the same as I can't do much if he decides to break the law by having two drivers licenses that I do not know about
Cat

Those other scenarios are just examples of how we come up with solutions to perceived problems. The solutions usually penalize the general public, all because a few make poor decisions.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CNP

You can't sort that out. For example all you need to get a DL is a DL from out of province and a utility bill............ and that will get you a health care card. Ratting people out is really the only way. And enforcement............something the govt is weak on. I'm going on the good conscience of people who do things legally........and that would be someone who really moves here, not a transient who breaks the law. To do otherwise is penalizing Albertans because some guys break the rules........don't we complain about that all the time? A guys gets hurt on a quad and we all get to wear helmets.......ATVers abuse trails and we all get banned........we complain about that and at the same time impose penalties on new Albertans (real ones) because some transient guys abuse the system.

Those examples are not illegal however , that is my point
Having two lisences certainly is
Cat

[CNP]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Those examples are not illegal however , that is my point
Having two lisences certainly is
Cat

I guess I wasn't making my point clear Cat. The legality of the examples isn't the point (but riding a ATV down rivers and creeks certainly is). It's peoples solutions to the perceived problems that gets me. Again......because some people tear up the countryside with their ATV's.........the answer is ban ATV's. Because some people are transients and have licenses in two provinces..........lets impose a one/two/three year waiting period for all Albertans. Those are not proper solutions to the problems. They are weak responses that penalize responsible Albertans.

[West O'5]

I actually CAN hunt and fish as a resident in 2 provinces if I so choose,perfectly legal......just sayn'.
And no.....I am not RCMP nor CDN Forces.If that were the case,I could probably hunt as a resident in 3 provinces depending upon where I was stationed.

[walking buffalo]

Putting qualifications on Residency status "For the purpose of Hunting" is not difficult to implement.

BC is a good example. Six month proof of residency before being legal to possess Resident hunting licences.
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sp...ng-credentials

"B.C. Residency

Proof of B.C. residency includes:

B.C. driver’s licence
BCID
BC Services Card
BC CareCard

The documentation must have an issue date at least six months prior to the day of the application."


Nube, this is NOT an issue for F&W Enforcement.

Enforcement's job is to enforce the current law.
This is an issue for AEP, as they are in control of the legislations pertaining to hunting residency qualifications.

[Lefty-Canuck]

BC actually has an interview process where you need to prove you are there for a minimum amount of time each year or they will not grant you residence status.

A buddy literally had to bring his time sheets to the meeting to prove he was in BC enough to be considered a resident.

We need to do that in Alberta.

LC

[CNP]

Originally Posted by West O'5

I actually CAN hunt and fish as a resident in 2 provinces if I so choose,perfectly legal......just sayn'.
And no.....I am not RCMP nor CDN Forces.If that were the case,I could probably hunt as a resident in 3 provinces depending upon where I was stationed.

You brought it up so why don't you explain how you can legally do that? We want to close those loopholes..............just sayin'

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

BC actually has an interview process where you need to prove you are there for a minimum amount of time each year or they will not grant you residence status.

A buddy literally had to bring his time sheets to the meeting to prove he was in BC enough to be considered a resident.

We need to do that in Alberta.

LC

That's not even remotely what we need in AB. I don't have to tell any fish and wildlife employee how much time I spend in Arizona each year. If I pay taxes to one province and I live in that province permanently and my sole residence is in that province is that not good enough? B.C is going to an online system to purchases licenses. Should be in place this year.

[Roderek]

Couldn't they just make a version of the WIN card for Canada, and you could only have one hunting license attached to it?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by CNP

That's not even remotely what we need in AB. I don't have to tell any fish and wildlife employee how much time I spend in Arizona each year. If I pay taxes to one province and I live in that province permanently and my sole residence is in that province is that not good enough? B.C is going to an online system to purchases licenses. Should be in place this year.

The point is being able to prove residency, too many people hunt as residents in more than one province. You can't be a resident of two places at one time.

LC

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The point is being able to prove residency, too many people hunt as residents in more than one province. You can't be a resident of two places at one time.

LC

No kidding. That is what this whole thread is about.

The current system is susceptible to fraud.

Finding ways to ameliorate this without penalizing law abiding Albertans is problematic.

Not everyone has a DL but everyone can purchase a Registries ID card.

Not everyone has an AB health card (members of the Military do not).

Not everyone pays utilities (included in rent).

Not everyone pays taxes (stay at home moms/dads).

Not everyone is employed (stay at home moms/dads).

But everyone must live in Alberta, therefore everyone has a residence in Alberta. Any bill or government letter to your mailing address in Alberta may be used as proof of residency. In some cases that is all that can be provided.

Assuming all that ^^^^^^it is difficult to implement a system in place to catch fraudsters.

What is the problem anyway? Aside from knowing that there are loopholes and that some people know of some people who are abusing the system there are no statistics to say how widespread the problem is. If the problem isn't widespread, the province will most likely not give a rats azz. Come up with something sure but my only problem is that we may not like what we get. Do not penalize law abiding, tax paying Albertans by introducing some kind of time in the penalty box system.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Lol, clearly a touchy subject for you!

How are you penalizing law abiding citizens?

Draw wait times for true residents is the issue.

A minimum residency requirement is used in many places. Why can't shouldn't we do that in Alberta?

As it stands there is a lot of abuse going on under the current system from people lying about hunting eligibility to lying about place of residence.

I have heard people brag about shooting draw moose in Alberta as well as moose "back home" that's not cool.

LC

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The point is being able to prove residency, too many people hunt as residents in more than one province. You can't be a resident of two places at one time.

LC

Ummmmm......yes I can....sorta?

Originally Posted by CNP

You brought it up so why don't you explain how you can legally do that? We want to close those loopholes..............just sayin'

Wow only one nibble,fishn kinda slow this morn,lol.



I'll explain....
I moved to AB 6 years ago,full time resident,this is where I live,work,play,pay taxes etc....indisputably an Alberta resident.

Born n raised in NB.
NB has an exemption in their hunting regs/F&W Act under the definition of resident that reads:

(a) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(b) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of two weeks immediately prior to making an application for a licence, where that person proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he was required to take up residence in the Province as a result of being transferred to the Province by his employer;
(c) a person who is taking educational training of a three-month minimum duration within the Province and has been residing in the Province for a two-week period immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(d) a person who resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to taking educational training outside the Province and who is continuing such education;
(e) a person who proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he has resided in the Province for the purpose of employment for an aggregate period of six months within the twelve months immediately preceding the making of an application;
(f) a person who was born in the Province and who owns real property in the Province;
(g) a person who was born in the Province and who is a member of the Canadian Forces or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; or
(h) a person who has his or her principal place of residence in the Province and is the holder of a valid New Brunswick driver’s licence or a valid photo identification card issued by the Minister of Justice and Public Safety and referred to in the regulations under the Financial Administration Act;

I was born in NB AND still own real property in NB,small acreage and cabin) that I pay NB property tax on....therefore,even though my principal place of residence is AB,I can still hunt and fish in NB as a resident.
Also if was to join Armed Forces,stationed in Ont with principal residence in AB,I could hunt all 3.

The "born" in NB clause is to prevent non-residents from simply buying a recreational property and calling themselves residents,most likely originally intended to protect the Guiding/Outfitting industry by preventing wealthy 'muricans from skirting the mandatory guide rules for Atlantic salmon angling and all hunting.

All that said,I have no real desire to hunt in NB these days other then perhaps spend a week in deer camp with lifelong buddies...but the deer hunting in AB is exponentially better,NB's deer herd has been decimated by forest mismanagement over the last 3 decades from outstanding in the 80s with 250K deer to pathetic at present with an estimated 50-60K head.Moose tags are too hard to draw for too short a season to for me travel 5000km when I can bowhunt moose and or get an undersubscribed tag every year here.I only have so many vacation days/year for hunting,I'd rather spend them in AB chasing elk and deer with healthy numbers.
.......but when I visit in summer months,I do buy resident salmon licence,I am a licensed guide in NB sure as hell ain't gonna hire one to go fishn in the Home pool,lol.

[catnthehat]

obviously some peoples idea of a Provincial resident differ from others
Cat

[Opa]

My family and I own a goodly amount of land in Sask., however, I have to buy a non resident license to do any legal hunting there. Not worth it. Sure, I would never have to leave our property if I was to hunt, with nobody being any the wiser, as there are lots of bluffs that harbour some big whitetail in goodly numbers. In the fall hundreds of migratory birds feed there as well. Why take an animal or birds when you can't legally bring them back to Alberta. My brother and sister do not allow trespassing in any manner and enforce it, unless it is immediate family, and they have had prior notification.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by Opa

My family and I own a goodly amount of land in Sask., however, I have to buy a non resident license to do any legal hunting there. Not worth it. Sure, I would never have to leave our property if I was to hunt, with nobody being any the wiser, as there are lots of bluffs that harbour some big whitetail in goodly numbers. In the fall hundreds of migratory birds feed there as well. Why take an animal or birds when you can't legally bring them back to Alberta. My brother and sister do not allow trespassing in any manner and enforce it, unless it is immediate family, and they have had prior notification.

Not that big a deal imho as at least you can hunt in SK without mandatory guide requirement.Personally,I wouldn't care mind so much paying the extra $$ for NR licence in NB,it's the mandatory guide requirement that I have a problem with,esp given the fact that I not only hunted/fished in NB most of my life,but am also a licensed guide in NB myself.
If it weren't for the fact that I still own property there,I would have to either hire a guide or be hosted by friend/family with Class2 Guide licence to fish salmon in a river that I fished and guided on for 30+ years.

[drake]

Ive said it before, but if I had access to the license data from our province and every other province I could expose the cheaters in less than 15 minutes of work on excel.

the fact that this is even a risk in todays and age is embarrassing. Our province should be ashamed of the way they handle licencing.

Wanna hunt Bighorn in Alberta....no problem...come get a DL at the registry then swing by cabelas to get your WIn card and tag....

[300magman]

Originally Posted by Opa

My family and I own a goodly amount of land in Sask., however, I have to buy a non resident license to do any legal hunting there. Not worth it. Sure, I would never have to leave our property if I was to hunt, with nobody being any the wiser, as there are lots of bluffs that harbour some big whitetail in goodly numbers. In the fall hundreds of migratory birds feed there as well. Why take an animal or birds when you can't legally bring them back to Alberta. My brother and sister do not allow trespassing in any manner and enforce it, unless it is immediate family, and they have had prior notification.

It's off topic a bit, but you can hunt the migratory birds all you want and bring them back to Ab. U just need the canadian resident game bird license and the sask wildlife cert in additions to your federal permit and your good to go.The extra &66extra $66 is well worth the quality of shoots out there, lol.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by drake

Ive said it before, but if I had access to the license data from our province and every other province I could expose the cheaters in less than 15 minutes of work on excel.

the fact that this is even a risk in todays and age is embarrassing. Our province should be ashamed of the way they handle licencing.

Wanna hunt Bighorn in Alberta....no problem...come get a DL at the registry then swing by cabelas to get your WIn card and tag....

Yup! And don't forget to grab every whitey tag u can too and make sure you fill them....it was a long drive to Alberta, don't wanna go home with an empty box.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by 300magman

Yup! And don't forget to grab every whitey tag u can too and make sure you fill them....it was a long drive to Alberta, don't wanna go home with an empty box.

You know, I'm sitting here thinking that the same arguments keep getting rehashed here about double dipping. It occurs to me that an argument could be made that a lot of people do work and pay taxes in more then one province, so why shouldn't they be allowed to hunt in both province's? Only difference between that and hunter hosting is the cost of the licences. I think the whole elegibility thing is being blown way out of proportion anyways.
We have a much bigger problem that should be addressed as far as game conservation goes then a handfull of hardworking sportsmen/women like ourselves that are forced to work away from home.

[petew]

With todays electronic way of doing communication it is easy for F&W to communicate with other provinces licensing system. The provinces just have to do it, and when people are double dipping , charge them.
A registry could be easily set up to log hunting license holders, and the computers can easily flag double dippers.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You know, I'm sitting here thinking that the same arguments keep getting rehashed here about double dipping. It occurs to me that an argument could be made that a lot of people do work and pay taxes in more then one province, so why shouldn't they be allowed to hunt in both province's? Only difference between that and hunter hosting is the cost of the licences. I think the whole elegibility thing is being blown way out of proportion anyways.
We have a much bigger problem that should be addressed as far as game conservation goes then a handfull of hardworking sportsmen/women like ourselves that are forced to work away from home.

The point is that you can only have one "primary" residence, you normally only vote in one province, and you usually only pay your provincial income tax to one province. And if you work away from home, most of your income still ends up in your home province. And no, the cost is not only difference in being a resident or non resident. A non resident can only purchase certain licenses, and he can only apply for draws with a resident, and then not for all species.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Lol, clearly a touchy subject for you!

How are you penalizing law abiding citizens?

Draw wait times for true residents is the issue.

A minimum residency requirement is used in many places. Why can't shouldn't we do that in Alberta?

As it stands there is a lot of abuse going on under the current system from people lying about hunting eligibility to lying about place of residence.

I have heard people brag about shooting draw moose in Alberta as well as moose "back home" that's not cool.

LC

It's not as touchy a subject for me as it is for the guys who advocate a year, two years or three year sit in the penalty box until you can qualify for a license. That is penalizing people for no reason. I'm not talking the abusers, I'm talking about real citizens of Alberta who in no uncertain terms should be told they have to wait multiple years before they can hunt. None of this affects me or anyone I know, so I have no agenda other than to expose the disproportionate solutions being offered up.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by West O'5

Ummmmm......yes I can....sorta?

Wow only one nibble,fishn kinda slow this morn,lol.



I'll explain....
I moved to AB 6 years ago,full time resident,this is where I live,work,play,pay taxes etc....indisputably an Alberta resident.

Born n raised in NB.
NB has an exemption in their hunting regs/F&W Act under the definition of resident that reads:

(a) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(b) a person who has resided in the Province for a period of two weeks immediately prior to making an application for a licence, where that person proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he was required to take up residence in the Province as a result of being transferred to the Province by his employer;
(c) a person who is taking educational training of a three-month minimum duration within the Province and has been residing in the Province for a two-week period immediately prior to making an application for a licence;
(d) a person who resided in the Province for a period of six months immediately prior to taking educational training outside the Province and who is continuing such education;
(e) a person who proves to the satisfaction of the Minister that he has resided in the Province for the purpose of employment for an aggregate period of six months within the twelve months immediately preceding the making of an application;
(f) a person who was born in the Province and who owns real property in the Province;
(g) a person who was born in the Province and who is a member of the Canadian Forces or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; or
(h) a person who has his or her principal place of residence in the Province and is the holder of a valid New Brunswick driver’s licence or a valid photo identification card issued by the Minister of Justice and Public Safety and referred to in the regulations under the Financial Administration Act;

I was born in NB AND still own real property in NB,small acreage and cabin) that I pay NB property tax on....therefore,even though my principal place of residence is AB,I can still hunt and fish in NB as a resident.
Also if was to join Armed Forces,stationed in Ont with principal residence in AB,I could hunt all 3.

The "born" in NB clause is to prevent non-residents from simply buying a recreational property and calling themselves residents,most likely originally intended to protect the Guiding/Outfitting industry by preventing wealthy 'muricans from skirting the mandatory guide rules for Atlantic salmon angling and all hunting.

All that said,I have no real desire to hunt in NB these days other then perhaps spend a week in deer camp with lifelong buddies...but the deer hunting in AB is exponentially better,NB's deer herd has been decimated by forest mismanagement over the last 3 decades from outstanding in the 80s with 250K deer to pathetic at present with an estimated 50-60K head.Moose tags are too hard to draw for too short a season to for me travel 5000km when I can bowhunt moose and or get an undersubscribed tag every year here.I only have so many vacation days/year for hunting,I'd rather spend them in AB chasing elk and deer with healthy numbers.
.......but when I visit in summer months,I do buy resident salmon licence,I am a licensed guide in NB sure as hell ain't gonna hire one to go fishn in the Home pool,lol.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The point is that you can only have one "primary" residence, you normally only vote in one province, and you usually only pay your provincial income tax to one province. And if you work away from home, most of your income still ends up in your home province. And no, the cost is not only difference in being a resident or non resident. A non resident can only purchase certain licenses, and he can only apply for draws with a resident, and then not for all species.

I agree with your point about non res not being able to hunt certain species. As for the rest, not really relevannt. If you Can't hunt a certain speciesbor draw for one, pay a guide to take you. Like I said money only difference I've done a lot of out of extended periods of out of province work, and though AB was still my primary residence, and spent as much or more in the new town I was in. How the taxes worked were never my dept. I will say I took every legal advantage that I could to hunt and fish in whatever "part" of Canada I was .in. Don't forget, we are all supposed to be Canadians and so have some tiny rights to begin with.
I'll say again, this "dupple dipping' is blown way out of propportion.
I would really like even a good guesstamite on how many people of these Double Dippers there really are, and what their annual harvest would look like. I'm betting not near as bad as everyone things. Keep in mind I'm talking hunteres whose main crime is hunting in 2 provinces. I'm not talking about people who have no regard for the law and slaughter at will. Thats a different can of worms. I' startiing to word my slurs

[honda610]

I here alot of people complain about penalizing true Alberta residence. I haven't heard any real resolutions from the same group. Here's a simple solution. You can only hold a resident liscence if you are eligible to vote in a provincial and federal election with your residence registered to an Alberta address. As to people thinking it's not that big of a issue. Look how our drawn wait times have increased since the boom. We haven't grown as a province that fast. Every job I have worked on in the last 5 years at least one person is a double tag dipper. Alot more of it goes on then people realize.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by honda610

I here alot of people complain about penalizing true Alberta residence. I haven't heard any real resolutions from the same group. Here's a simple solution. You can only hold a resident liscence if you are eligible to vote in a provincial and federal election with your residence registered to an Alberta address. As to people thinking it's not that big of a issue. Look how our drawn wait times have increased since the boom. We haven't grown as a province that fast. Every job I have worked on in the last 5 years at least one person is a double tag dipper. Alot more of it goes on then people realize.

Last time I heard voting wasn't mandatory