The next time someone says "if the hook is too deep, leave it in and it will dissolve"

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

It is barbed. Why?

hmmmm

you don't say...

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Isopod

Sheesh, I read through the whole thread and, unless I missed it somehow, not one person has mentioned that this illustrates why we should all be using barbless hooks, whether the law is grey right now or not. It's got to be easier for a fish to spit or pass a barbless hook than a barbed one, and for fish that we land and have deeply inhaled hooks, there's no question that getting the hooks out and successfully releasing the fish is about a million times easier if the hooks are barbless. A fish may pass a single barbed hook like in the photo, but what about a crankbait with two or three sets of treble hooks?

I stopped using barbs for pike well before the barbless laws, and went from releasing at least a couple pike a year with deeply hooked crankbaits, to zero in the entire time since I stopped using treble hooks. Even if you are someone who doesn't give a damn about the fish, going barbless will mean fewer lost lures. I know some people joke about not caring what happens to the fish, and some might even mean it, but think about posting crap like that since that's what gives folks like PETA fuel for the fire, and rightly so.

Good points. Beeguy did bring it up though.

I feel the same, will continue using barbless, always worry about getting one in me, which coincidentally happened to my friend this summer, big barbed hook under the finger nail with 2 other hooks still in the jackfish. Had to go to Emergency to get it out

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

hmmmm

you don't say...

Compassion?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Compassion?

Is he thinking the hook in the exhaust was mine? I didn't leave it that long before setting it.....

[Brandonkop]

Well it looks like the fish was able to pass the hook very well! I am impressed. I actually think over time this fish would likely have been fine if it survived the passing of a hook like that.

I imagine it suffered little discomfort as well. The GI mucosal layer does not really have much sensory nerves. I've seen patients who have swallowed pen lids, screws, nails, batteries. They can't feel anything once it passes their throat. Also once it leaves the stomach and if less than a 5cm (if I recall correctly) they just let it pass on its own.

Considering the fishes GI system is much more simple than ours I would assume the fish was unaware of the hook passing through its bowels.

I agree with all your other sentiments about using good flourocarbon line, heavier test.

In this video you see my brother hand lining a fish after he snagged a piece of line. The fish was looking healthy pulling around 50 feet of line. I usually snag one like this or catch one 1-3 times a year with hooks in then or dragging a piece of line. All the fish have looked well.

This is a sweet trout fishing video my brother made which includes the story above.

http://youtu.be/Shc-ik2E3HQ

Brandon

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Is he thinking the hook in the exhaust was mine? I didn't leave it that long before setting it.....

Not sure, but i believe he was implying was that you are ranting about showing compassion for critters but hypocritically using barbed hooks.... Thats what i got out of it anyway..... I could be way off in my guess though.

[Ken07AOVette]

Brandon that was awesome! Great job on the video, thank you!

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Not sure, but i believe he was implying was that you are ranting about showing compassion for critters but hypocritically using barbed hooks.... Thats what i got out of it anyway..... I could be way off in my guess though.

Naw, just providing a little more evidence that a fish's head does not detonate when it comes into contact with a barbed hook.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Naw, just providing a little more evidence that a fish's head does not detonate when it comes into contact with a barbed hook.

I am still amazed that it went through, but people have said they have seen similar circumstances.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Fish may not scream cry and grunt like other dying and suffering animals, but I bet they feel pain.

Ken, SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I told my wife fish don't feel pain. If she thought I was torturing them with catch and release just for fun my rods would be out with the next garbage pick-up!

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Mudslide

What am I missing here? The fish not only survived but was just about to pass the hook all the way through it's digestive trac. So what's the fuss about?
Just say'n.

He is worried that the fish felt some discomfort from that hook sticking out of its bum hole. Then he killed it. haha

[jeffrey929]

He is worried that the fish felt some discomfort from that hook sticking out of its bum hole. Then he killed it. haha

This was the point i was trying to make, and I was considered to be a Troll.....

[fishtank]

ouch....that why i don't use treble hooks

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

He is worried that the fish felt some discomfort from that hook sticking out of its bum hole. Then he killed it. haha

I was actually looking for a willing volunteer to swallow a fish hook, let me know what it feels like would you? I know you are not stupid enough to have missed the entire point of the thread, and are just joining the rest of your kind under the bridge.

Originally Posted by jeffrey929

He is worried that the fish felt some discomfort from that hook sticking out of its bum hole. Then he killed it. haha

This was the point i was trying to make, and I was considered to be a Troll.....

I never saw the hook in the tailpipe until I got home. The point of the entire was not the destination, it was rhe journey the hook took, and what could be done to minimize future damage. I could not see the hook down the throat.....oh you got me again, sneaky guy.

I called you a troll because you were trolling.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Cal

I agree that Ken's picture is an eye opener for sure, but I though that fishermen as a comunity have been maintaining that fish dont feel pain since about the late seventys?

Interestingly, I read a study that had game fish stung (injected) with bee venom in the lips that were in a tank.

The fish exhibited some behaviors (like rubbing the injection point against the tank) that definitively indicated they have sensory organs.

A similar study concluded that when "poked" (which they can also feel) they are simply just to stupid to pull away. They do not have the ability to cognitively reason and/or react to pain in the same way more intelligent animals would.

Kind of interesting.

Either way .... shame on you Ken for killing the fish ..... you should be ashamed of yourself ...... (just teasing....lol)

[Ken07AOVette]

I took Oldman to wainwright today, and he said when he was doing fish studies, tagging etc on pike they would inject a 'thing' (forget what he called it, too long ago to be RFID tag) much the same as using a clothing tag gun, the pike would be sitting calm until the injection, then thrash around like crazy.

Animals feel pain.

[Ken07AOVette]

Snopes.com posted 29 June, 2005 01:26 AM *** ** ** ** ** *

I heard a fish hook will dissolve from enzymes located in the stomach of fish in a few days.

* **
False

quote:
In fall 1999, Dettloff's study team caught 14 muskie on single-hook sucker rigs. This time, radio transmitters fixed to the fish had a battery life of at least 400 days, with the potential of going 600 days. Three of the tagged muskie died fairly quickly when released.

In spring 2000, Dettloff and his team began tracking the remaining fish. The news was not good. "By late May at least half of the tagged fish were dead," said Dettloff. "There were about four or five of them still moving around, but...by July they were all dead." Using an underwater camera, Dettloff and his team located several of the fatalities on the lake bottom. Two others washed up on shore and bears dragged them into the bush.

Anglers caught two of the tagged muskie early in 2000. A 34-incher (86 cm) was released by an angler who noticed it was tagged. "That fish looked okay, but was a little on the thin side," said Dettloff. " It ended up dying about a month and a half later." The other muskie was a 42-inch (106-cm) beauty, which Dettloff said weighed about 21 pounds (9.5 kg) when tagged in 1999. When re-caught July 4, 2000, it was emaciated. Although released, it died two weeks later. Dettloff said, "We knew (gut-hooked muskie) were dying, but we hadn't had a chance to see a live fish and observe its health. That fish was as skinny as a rail."

The deaths of those 14 muskie - 100 per cent delayed mortality - convinced him the single-hook sucker rig has no place in an ethical angler's bag of tricks
and

Note: Sucker rigs are a big hook set into a sucker fish, which is then allowed to swim. The muskie then swallows the sucker fish - and hook - whole.

quote:
Aren’t hooks supposed to dissolve to help save fish?

There is no such thing as a “dissolving” hook. “Dissolving” hooks are a marketing creation. All hooks rust and corrode in water. When hooks rust they produce toxins. It appears that it is these toxins that get fish sick, disturbing them from breeding, when that does not kill them.


--------------------
Never make fun of a man's fish, especially if it is 40 feet tall and aluminum.
Posts: 949 | From: Central California | Registered: Feb 2000 *|* IP: Logged*|*

[Graffy91]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Snopes.com posted 29 June, 2005 01:26 AM *** ** ** ** ** *

I heard a fish hook will dissolve from enzymes located in the stomach of fish in a few days.

* **
False

quote:
In fall 1999, Dettloff's study team caught 14 muskie on single-hook sucker rigs. This time, radio transmitters fixed to the fish had a battery life of at least 400 days, with the potential of going 600 days. Three of the tagged muskie died fairly quickly when released.

In spring 2000, Dettloff and his team began tracking the remaining fish. The news was not good. "By late May at least half of the tagged fish were dead," said Dettloff. "There were about four or five of them still moving around, but...by July they were all dead." Using an underwater camera, Dettloff and his team located several of the fatalities on the lake bottom. Two others washed up on shore and bears dragged them into the bush.

Anglers caught two of the tagged muskie early in 2000. A 34-incher (86 cm) was released by an angler who noticed it was tagged. "That fish looked okay, but was a little on the thin side," said Dettloff. " It ended up dying about a month and a half later." The other muskie was a 42-inch (106-cm) beauty, which Dettloff said weighed about 21 pounds (9.5 kg) when tagged in 1999. When re-caught July 4, 2000, it was emaciated. Although released, it died two weeks later. Dettloff said, "We knew (gut-hooked muskie) were dying, but we hadn't had a chance to see a live fish and observe its health. That fish was as skinny as a rail."

The deaths of those 14 muskie - 100 per cent delayed mortality - convinced him the single-hook sucker rig has no place in an ethical angler's bag of tricks
and

Note: Sucker rigs are a big hook set into a sucker fish, which is then allowed to swim. The muskie then swallows the sucker fish - and hook - whole.

quote:
Aren’t hooks supposed to dissolve to help save fish?

There is no such thing as a “dissolving” hook. “Dissolving” hooks are a marketing creation. All hooks rust and corrode in water. When hooks rust they produce toxins. It appears that it is these toxins that get fish sick, disturbing them from breeding, when that does not kill them.


--------------------
Never make fun of a man's fish, especially if it is 40 feet tall and aluminum.
Posts: 949 | From: Central California | Registered: Feb 2000 *|* IP: Logged*|*

The thing is, you're going way too in-depth with this man...


Fish along with all animals feel pain. There's nothing you can do...


Fish live, and fish die. We sometimes kill fish while angling, its a risk you take, and willingly know as an avid angler.


I've seen some pretty tough pike, with ripped lips, no fins, 1 eye, the list goes on... It's the way she goes man.

Using barbless or not, you're still harming a fish. It all comes down to what you think is right as an angler, and personally, if you think its this big of a deal, give up fishing now.

Really though, fishing and hunting are things we knowingly do that put stress, and pressure on the animals.


I just personally think you're getting way too caught up in this situation and should take a step back on it.

Not trying to be rude, or a troll, or a dink about anything, but hey, if you don't like putting fish in danger, do not fish.

[Hunter Trav]

Originally Posted by Graffy91

The thing is, you're going way too in-depth with this man...


Fish along with all animals feel pain. There's nothing you can do...


Fish live, and fish die. We sometimes kill fish while angling, its a risk you take, and willingly know as an avid angler.


I've seen some pretty tough pike, with ripped lips, no fins, 1 eye, the list goes on... It's the way she goes man.

Using barbless or not, you're still harming a fish. It all comes down to what you think is right as an angler, and personally, if you think its this big of a deal, give up fishing now.

Really though, fishing and hunting are things we knowingly do that put stress, and pressure on the animals.


I just personally think you're getting way too caught up in this situation and should take a step back on it.

Not trying to be rude, or a troll, or a dink about anything, but hey, if you don't like putting fish in danger, do not fish.

Good answer right there...

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Graffy91

The thing is, you're going way too in-depth with this man...
Fish along with all animals feel pain. There's nothing you can do...
Fish live, and fish die. We sometimes kill fish while angling, its a risk you take, and willingly know as an avid angler.
I've seen some pretty tough pike, with ripped lips, no fins, 1 eye, the list goes on... It's the way she goes man.
Using barbless or not, you're still harming a fish. It all comes down to what you think is right as an angler, and personally, if you think its this big of a deal, give up fishing now.
Really though, fishing and hunting are things we knowingly do that put stress, and pressure on the animals.
I just personally think you're getting way too caught up in this situation and should take a step back on it.
Not trying to be rude, or a troll, or a dink about anything, but hey, if you don't like putting fish in danger, do not fish.

Thanks man, but when I fish I do it to eat them. I don't go to the mountains to enjoy the majestic beauty of the surroundings and lose myself in the glory of that first rise man, and then place a perfectly executed fly that I tied myself in the middle of the crest of the concentric circles where the head emerged man,

I throw a hook down a hole to eat trout instead of chicken that day.

And, there is something you can do, if you choose to hunt ethically.

I choose that route, more so after finding out the truth about 'dissolving hooks'.

You do what ever you like, but I don't need to be told not to fish, thank you very much.

[B-rett]

Originally Posted by Graffy91

The thing is, you're going way too in-depth with this man...


Fish along with all animals feel pain. There's nothing you can do...


Fish live, and fish die. We sometimes kill fish while angling, its a risk you take, and willingly know as an avid angler.


I've seen some pretty tough pike, with ripped lips, no fins, 1 eye, the list goes on... It's the way she goes man.

Using barbless or not, you're still harming a fish. It all comes down to what you think is right as an angler, and personally, if you think its this big of a deal, give up fishing now.

Really though, fishing and hunting are things we knowingly do that put stress, and pressure on the animals.


I just personally think you're getting way too caught up in this situation and should take a step back on it.

Not trying to be rude, or a troll, or a dink about anything, but hey, if you don't like putting fish in danger, do not fish.

Yeah, what comes around is all around Lahey!
(I saw your Ricky pic so I had to bust out a TPB Rickyism haha)

But I do agree with Ken, you leave a hook in, over time it rusts, does it's thing and kills the fish (providing the hook will rust) Just like us stepping on a rusty nail, same effect. However, worst case Ontario you have to cut the hook and leave it in (although I haven't had to yet luckily!)

[Graffy91]

Originally Posted by B-rett

Yeah, what comes around is all around Lahey!
(I saw your Ricky pic so I had to bust out a TPB Rickyism haha)

But I do agree with Ken, you leave a hook in, over time it rusts, does it's thing and kills the fish (providing the hook will rust) Just like us stepping on a rusty nail, same effect. However, worst case Ontario you have to cut the hook and leave it in (although I haven't had to yet luckily!)

Its a worst-case Ontario...


Regardless of harming fish,

We all love fishing here so lets all just get along.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Graffy91

Regardless of harming fish,

We all love fishing here so lets all just get along.

I agree.

[jeffrey929]

I certainly have better things to do than "troll" ..... I just found your rant to be hypocritical due to the fish no longer being in the water... I practice both catch and keep and catch and release.... What happened regarding the hook is not always avoidable if you are using hooks, line and such... It makes no sense to chastise some unknown angler because it happened... Enjoy your fish, it was a nice fish... Congrats on your catch

[moosehead7]

NOW WHERE ARE ALL THE MOUTHPIECES THAT SAID TO ME ON AN EARLIER THREAD SAID THAT HOOKS DISOLVE IN THE FISH WHEN I FOUND A HOOK IN THE BELLY OF A NORTHERN PIKE WHICH THE FISH WOULD NOT HAVE DIGESTED.

[B-rett]

Originally Posted by Graffy91

Its a worst-case Ontario...


Regardless of harming fish,

We all love fishing here so lets all just get along.

Exxxxxxactly! It doesn't take rocket appliances to see that!

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by jeffrey929

I certainly have better things to do than "troll" ..... I just found your rant to be hypocritical due to the fish no longer being in the water... I practice both catch and keep and catch and release.... What happened regarding the hook is not always avoidable if you are using hooks, line and such... It makes no sense to chastise some unknown angler because it happened... Enjoy your fish, it was a nice fish... Congrats on your catch

Ok, so do you hunt?
The point is to ensure we take precautions regarding suffering while in the process of harvesting.
Do you sneak up on a deer, stab it with a nail file, leave it in and wait for the wound to become infected, then wait until it can no longer stand and dies, then you look for it in the field and claim the corpse? Likely not.

I stalk it, shoot it in the boilermaker if a clean shot is possible within my comfortable range, then another in the neck or head killing it very quickly if not dead already when I get to the animal.

I just pointed out what the fish went through, or in this case vise versa, and said people should use better line that does not snap when a little fish like this hits it. I would guess it was 3 lb test.

You know damn well some of the responses were 'fishing for certain responses'.

And thank you, it was a nice fish.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by moosehead7

NOW WHERE ARE ALL THE MOUTHPIECES THAT SAID TO ME ON AN EARLIER THREAD SAID THAT HOOKS DISOLVE IN THE FISH WHEN I FOUND A HOOK IN THE BELLY OF A NOTYHERN PIKE WHICH THE FISH WOULD NOT HAVE DIGESTED.

Huh ?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by B-rett

Exxxxxxactly! It doesn't take rocket appliances to see that!

Lol omg.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by moosehead7

NOW WHERE ARE ALL THE MOUTHPIECES THAT SAID TO ME ON AN EARLIER THREAD SAID THAT HOOKS DISOLVE IN THE FISH WHEN I FOUND A HOOK IN THE BELLY OF A NOTYHERN PIKE WHICH THE FISH WOULD NOT HAVE DIGESTED.

They are burning bandwidth googling dissolving fish hooks