Downrigger/Braided Line ????'s

[TreeGuy]

Hey Guys!

We spent almost 18 straight hours on the water yesterday. No fish......

We are new to using downriggers and I have a question. If you are trolling a ball through a school at 150', how do you know when to set?

For example, we have been doing everything the books tell us too. We watch the rod tip dip and dip until the fish snaps the line off of the clip. At that point we quickly reel in the slack and set hard with the drag closed, no give at all! It's not working, I need advice and for the second time this year I have gotten my eyeballs sunburnt.

Also, I am using 30lb braided line and had 4 line breaks yesterday at the knot. I was tying a traditional 'Fisherman's Knot' doubled up through the swivel, followed up by three half-hitches as a final safety measure.

I'd love any advice as yesterday turned into a 22 hour disaster. Fishing trip sponsored by Murphey's Law! As one of 237 different things that went wrong, the worst one was that I suffered a brake malfunction on my 'rigger. Thus, reeling it in to accomidate depth variations, or 'pull offs', or lure changes was a nightmare. The broken brake was still aplying about 75% tension. Imagine that at 160'! Imagine doing that over and over again for hours! I am a bit stiff today.

Anything you guys could add would be much appreciated!

Thank You,
Tree

[Walleyes]

Sounds like you are having some pains alright but you are into some fish,, so that's a bonus..
When running riggers always run above you're fish,, example if the fish are sounding at 160' run you're lines at 100 and 90 give or take 10 feet either way,, fish will generally go up to feed but not down...
I think you are waiting to long on you're strikes to set the hook.. As soon as I see a strike and an indication the fish is on I set the hook regardless if the fish releases it or not.. I will release the clip myself if need be.. And by the sounds of it you're drag is to tight,, set you're drag to where when you are trolling it is just on the verge of pulling out and don't tighten it unless you have to to play a bit larger fish.. I think what is happening you are tearing their mouths on the hook set. I have never heard of the method of setting a hook as which you talk about... I'm not sure what type of clip you are using but I use the black plastic type that look like a clothes hanger and squeeze on the sides of the line,, and if they are set right usually about half way in on the clip they will set themselves efficient enough,, you don't have to set the hook very hard just a good little tug is all that is required and sometimes not even that...
By the sounds of it you are Lake Trout fishing and I will mention that Lakers have very soft and relatively small mouths and I have found that a smaller hook size works wonders.. On all my spoons I remove the larger treble hooks and replace them with single hooks I have found that with the smaller hooks we stick allot more fish... Good luck

[Kodiak]

Also with the new lines out there you should use a polymer knot, never had a break once I switched.

[Unregistered user]

Is your line breaking or is the knot pulling out? Go to the line Manufacturer's website and they list the most effective knots to use with your line. You're getting hits big enough to cause grief so you're o.k. there.

[TreeGuy]

Thanks Guys! Man, I haven't been that sore in 10 years! lol!

Yes unregistered user (are you NationWide by any chance??), the line was breaking at the knot and not pulling out.

Kodiak, I will do that as it never occured to me to do so!

Walleyes...wow. Thanks man. I will write that down and try it next time for sure. I am using the same clips you mentioned and in the same manner. You are also correct, we are a bunch of rookies in a rubber boat chasing lakers! I have yet to boat one but will soon!

We have been fishing deep in the school hoping to get hits from the fish on the bottem (thus the loss of not one but TWO 'rigger balls on one trip! ) I will try going higher and setting quicker with less drag and let you know. Once again thank you and hopefully I'll be able to post some pics pretty soon!

Tree

[Unregistered user]

Nope, not nationwide, mostly Alberta and BC.

[TreeGuy]

Sorry UU, Nationwide was notorious for being an unregistered user and said that he'd register on the new board under the same name but.......

Walleyes, what size of laker are you targeting? We are going after the big ones, and from everything I've learned about them they have HARD mouths and from the pics I have seen they have HUGE mouths. I appreciate any advice, but I don't want to be in the position of having someone more experienced than I having a little fun at my expense. If I am wrong, then I appologize. It is just that some of the things you said are absolutly opposite to what I have learned over the past several months.

Tree

[Ishpah]

http://www.luhrjensen.com/techreport...keTrolling.pdf
Here's a link to some info from Luhr Jensen on trolling for lake trout.
On the little I know about downriggers. Switch to electrics , one flick of the switch and they are on their own leaving you to handle the fish.
When you run the ball out, have the drag set on the reel so that it bows the rod slightly as line peels out. When the ball has stopped, the line playout should stop. You want to minimize the belly in the line from rodtip to the clip,this will get you to hook up faster.
Change to circle hooks, although they don't look formidible, they are.
Pay attention to the themocline, you should be able to see that on the fish finder and fix your lure depth at least 10ft above the fish. They see better up than down.
usually you get a bump on the downrigger ball when it hits bottom, the 'rigger line will go slack and and then slam down on the boom pulley. If you're fast you may be able to reel in some line before it hooks up. The best bet here is to make sure that the brake allows line to peel out until you stop the boat from moving forward, althewhile, you're retrieving your fishing lines and trying to hold the boat in position. Multitasking, a lot easier said than done.
Above all else, it's called fishing, not catching.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Walleyes, what size of laker are you targeting? We are going after the big ones, and from everything I've learned about them they have HARD mouths and from the pics I have seen they have HUGE mouths.
Tree

Well I'm glad you said it, my lip was getting sore from all the biting. There is a lot of info both online and in print about proper downrigger set-up, look especially at B.C. websites. A downrigger specific rod and a mooching reel (looks like a big fly reel) are the best way to go. The rod is long and once you have your cannonball at fishing depth you crank the reel tight which loads up the rod so that when the fish bites and pops the release, the hook is driven home or at least there is no slack in the line allowing you a much quicker hook set. It takes a lot of force to break 30lb test that's hooked up to a fishing rod, not trying to start a peeing match but I would pay real close attention to your knots. If by a fisherman's knot you mean a clinch knot, it's not recommended for hard lines, they don't compress so the line can't bite down and lock on itself, the knot will slip. Good luck, may see you out there soon.

[bowfin]

treeguy you could try using rubber bands that what i use when i down rig just use a slip knot around your line and clip band into release works real good with braided line have caught little trout under 12 inches and the elastic band breaks no problem.one thing to keep in mind when lowering the ball dont have to much tension on your line or you will release your line.you could try this also if your marking fish at 150ft set rigger at 130ft use a lure that will swim down that 15-20 ft.also i always have my lure atleast 50 to 100 ft behind the ball longer if the water is very clear. this is when a line counter on your reel comes in handy good luck fishing and catch a big one

[Walleyes]

Hey boys, no need to be tight lipped if you have a doubt about what is said just ask,, the only way we learn is through asking questions and through debate... I don't mind some constructive criticism..

Just to give you some back ground on my experience with using down riggers.. I have been going out to the west coast chasing Salmon just about every summer for at least a week or two and for as much as a month at a time since I was 10 years old,, am 41 now so I have a pretty good handle on the do's and dont's of down rigging. As far as lakers are concerned I have only been targeting them on the open water for about the last 7 years so I am by no means an expert and have a lot to learn.. I mainly chase them out on Cold Lake,, head out there 2 - 3 times a summer.. I have ice fished for them a few times up on Grist lake also, never seemed to get anything to big 8# at the most... I am not trying to set my self up or anything but just so's you know that I'm not talking through my hat so to speak... And I would never bull s#*t another fisherman. I would rather just not say anything,, if I wanted to screw you around..

As far as what size we target,, well we are fisherman we target big fish what else can I say.. When I say lakers have a small mouth it would be in relation to Say Pike..
I am not sure what size of spoons you use but I will say this we have found that on a typical 6" - 8" spoon the treble hooks they come with are to large. I run no larger than a # 4 treble or # 2 single we have found these to be way more effective on sticking these fish.. Keep in mind that when you put a single hook on a spoon it has to face the right way when trolled (i.e) the hook must face out from the roll this is generally to the colored side of the hook. Reason being a fish strikes from the outside of a lure when you're hook is faced in it can miss the hook set. If it is set to the outside of the roll it will strike the fish... ( I hope this makes sense) One of my favorite laker lures is a west coast rig.. Rhys Davies teaser head in chrome green or chartreuse or purple haze ran behind a 10" Hot Spot flasher.. In these you run real bait tipical frozen Anchovy, it can be bought at most bait outlets... We have found these set ups to out produce spoons by at least 2 to 1 when fished side by each.. On these lures we run #4 or sometimes a # 6 treble keep in mind these are set up for Chinook which we catch up to the 30# range frequently (just to give you an idea of what hook size to run)....
We try and run 3 rods when running for lakers. We will run 1, 10 - 20 feet above the deepest majority of the fish being sounded, always 1 halfway between deep fish and surface, and a rod in the middle of the boat on surface say 10' deep, this rod is generally a spoon or a minnow lure..

As far as Trout having a hard mouth no fish has a hard mouth so to speak when you are trolling.. We have found the most effective speeds to be between 1.8 - 2.0 knots (GPS'st). So when a fish strikes at this speed it is a hard hit and can cause tearing add this to a large fish that has power and the result is a lost fish...

As far as how far to run you lure behind the cannon ball that depends on how deep you are running, this being because of disturbance from the boat... If you are running riggers at 20- 40 feet, 30 feet behind is sufficient, anything over 40 feet deep and 20 feet behind seems to be sufficient.. Remember you want you're lure where you have the ball set,, if you give it to much lead the lure will rise behind you're ball not fall... Also when letting out you're line with the rigger keep you're rod tip pointed down to the water especially with long rods,, you can brake a long rod if the brake is set to hard, I generally set mine on free wheel and thumb it down.. My personal rod is a 10'6 Fennwick, HMX, with an Islander MR2 reel.. (she is a joy to fight fish on) Most of my rods are in the 10' length.. These long rods are generally considered mooching rods because of there length.They do have the tendency to break if not ran properly when letting them out with down riggers... Most down rigger rods used by west coast guides are in the 8 - 9' length,, these boys can't afford green horns breaking their rods..

There are many variables that come into play when you are out on the water and they can only be learned through trial and error and success.. I just wanted to go a little deeper into it this time and explain it a little better. The information I have given has come through many, many hours and thousands of dollars of trial and error I hope you can use some of it... There are many other tricks and techniques and variables used but this should get you started.. You can use them or not it's totally up to you..

I wanted to insert some pics of a few lakers we have taken over the last few years but unfortunately I once again am stuck at work and my pictures are on our home computer not my lap top...

Sorry for the long post but,, I tried to do it in a short form earlier but that was shot down,, so I hope this will help

Tree if you want, p.m me and we will go over some more details that I'm sure will help you out... Once again good luck...

[TreeGuy]

Thank you to everyone for your help. Walleyes in paticular I want to say sorry for doubting you post. I have had a hard time getting info on this subject for some reason until now. Thanks everyone, I will use all of your tips on my next trip. Will post longer when I am not on my way to bed!

Tree