Councillors for the County of Spirit River Lobbying for Elk Cull

[Dean2]

Now before everyone gets all wound up about this there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions.

1. First off, what is the level of landowner support for this. Has the County surveyed land owners - no they haven't becasue all the ones I have talked to haven't been consulted at all - or is this a reaction to a few people complaining to their councillor
2. How much is being driven by the cutbacks at AFSC
   
3. What is the actual current Elk herd vs historical, and given this wasn't a bad year winter wise what prompted this all of a sudden
4. Just exactly how would they propose to "Round Up" wild Elk
5. Is there an option to issue Elk hunters two or three cow tags if there really needs to be a cull

That is just the surface of the problem and the initial set of questions. I certainly plan to talk to a bunch more people as well as the Councillors and Reeve plus the local MLA to get the full story. Before guys go nuts, if you hunt up there you might want to talk to the landowners that give you permission to assess their view and perspective on this. As hunters there is no point in getting this blocked and then having no permission because you became part of the problem. If a large number of landowners are in favour of a cull because depredation has become a big probleml, can we find a good way to accomplish it.



https://www.thecentralpeacesignal.ca...-get-trampled/


MD proposes elk herds cull as farmlands get trampled

April 26, 2021
An elk was sighted on a field south of Wanham on Friday, April 23. The Municipal District of Spirit River No. 133 is proposing a mass cull of elk herds in the area as a way to control the damage they brought on farm fields. // Photo by Lynn Connell The Municipal District of Spirit River No. 133 is proposing a mass cull of wild elk herds in the area as a way to deal with elk intrusions into farmlands – often leaving a wide swath of destruction on unharvested crops. To set its plan in motion, the MD has written to Agriculture Minister Devin Dreeshen, raising the sentiment of area farm producers over the destructuve nature of these elk intrusions.
“This would, in effect, be an elk-reduction program – something which needed the approval from the provincial government,” Councillor Elaine Garrow told The Central Peace Signal. “We know from frequent sightings of elk herds that there are far too many of them in our area. Farmers would tell you the elk population in our area needs to be controlled because of the destruction elk herds often brought to our farms.”
She is hoping the province would get on board with the plan, which involves not only rounding up the elk and culling them in large numbers – “with the meat being professionally butchered at inspected facilities” – but also donating the meat to food banks in Alberta as well as homes for seniors.
“We believe that this option would assist to lower the elk pressure on our farmlands while also supporting residents during these challenging times,” the MD letter states.
Mel Duvall, who grows wheat, barley, peas and canola on a field spanning 13,000 acres in the Eaglesham area, said farmers take out insurance to cover themselves from any potential risk of damage by wildlife, adding that the MD plan comes at a time when Agriculture Financial Services Corp. (AFSC) is cutting back on wildlife compensation.
“This has been an ongoing problem for us,” he told The Central Peace Signal. “Something has to be done about it. We have quite a large number of elk in our area, and they are very destructive because they are not scared easily, they cover a lot of ground, and they trample on crops as they walk through.”
Henry Kroll, also a grain grower with nearly 6,000 acres of farmlands southwest of Spirit River, said he has had experienced damage on crops caused by elk. “At one particular year, we have bales of hays also wrecked by elk,” he said.
The MD said its proposed elk culk will benefit both the provincial and federal governments in the way of reduced costs associated with AFSC wildlife investigations and claims – “a win-win situation overall.”
Garrow said Central Peace-Notley MLA Todd Loewen has been involved in the MD’s efforts at trying to secure the nod of the province in the mass elk-cull plan.

[catnthehat]

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

Just like here and other places with elk problems. One of the reasons there is a problem in the first place.

Grizz

[EdmontonEli]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

farmer" i got elk damaging my crops !"
warden" i know some hunters who can help you out with that "
farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
cat

🤣🤣🤣

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

Bingo

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

Yup they would rather get a crop damage cheque from the government

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Yup they would rather get a crop damage cheque from the government

The logical thing would be, no hunt, no cheque. On the other hand, we have absentee land owners here, who have no financial stake in the issue and actually provide sanctuary for them.

Grizz

[Phil McCracken]

Catch and relocate to low density forested areas. Been successfully done before...(Athabasca area late 70's early 80's).

Also consider a General Season tag for either antlered/antlerless.

[st99]

I remember a few years ago. A lady representing the county said in the news paper that according to the county's estimate, there is 12 000 elk between Spirit River and Wanham. So there's 25 000 elk in Alberta, Saskatchewan to BC / Montana to NWT, and somehow, half of them live in that 30 km stretch of land.

I think a big part of the problem, is the way they estimate the elk number. Farmer "A" see 60 elk in his field on Monday, farmer "B" see 60 elk in his field on Tuesday and farmer "C" see 60 elk in his field on Wednesday. When they talk to each other they're amaze to discover that between 3 properties there's almost 300 elk, that's way too many. But in reality, it's the same elk that move around.

As for what others said about not letting hunters on their land, it's true. I know a guy who's co-owner of 25 000 acres of land south of Wanham. He keeps complaining about wildlife, even admitted shooting them while working the land (out of season, no tag, the guy is not a hunter). And they don't let anyone hunt their land.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Catch and relocate to low density forested areas. Been successfully done before...(Athabasca area late 70's early 80's).

Also consider a General Season tag for either antlered/antlerless.

They've run out of places to relocate them to. Ontario hunters now have an elk season, thanks to Alberta.

Grizz

[Douglas N]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

The logical thing would be, no hunt, no cheque. On the other hand, we have absentee land owners here, who have no financial stake in the issue and actually provide sanctuary for them.

Grizz

That’s exactly the way the way it is! If it’s posted they don’t qualify for compensation for crop damage. That said, unless they come out and inspect or are reported, AFSC and/or the Counties may not be aware.

[IL Bar]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

I think for the late season hunt in that area there is a list of land owners to call that gladly give permission.
To say land owners don't allow hunters is painting a pretty stupid picture with a wide brush stroke.

[Battle Rat]

Another solution that works is to open the rifle season on Sept1.
The bow hunters will whine but in a management hunt they just don't kill enough animals.

[urban rednek]

Obviously, the MD of Spirit River needs more wolves. It worked in Yellowstone.
If the government relocated a couple packs from Crown land with low prey density, it would eventually be a win-win for hunters and anti-hunters alike.

The next best solution is to hire hunters from New Zealand to shoot them from aircraft.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

I think for the late season hunt in that area there is a list of land owners to call that gladly give permission.
To say land owners don't allow hunters is painting a pretty stupid picture with a wide brush stroke.

And to infer that all land owners do allow hunters is just as stupid.
I actually feel sorry for land owners who have had poaching and damage incidents their land , it is not what hunting is , about however there are many out there who cross crops with vehicles, bust fences, leave gates open , steal tree stands and cameras and vandalize private property without any regard for anyone .
Cat

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

And to infer that all land owners do allow hunters is just as stupid.
I actually feel sorry for land owners who have had poaching and damage incidents their land , it is not what hunting is , about however there are many out there who cross crops with vehicles, bust fences, leave gates open , steal tree stands and cameras and vandalize private property without any regard for anyone .
Cat

It was your inferrance that the elk problem was due to landowner denial of access that I found stupid.
Just what percentage of land owners does that take?
You went from bashing land owners to back peddling and now sympathizing with them so no need to answer, I can see where you are going with this.

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

Yup darn valid point, like everything there are 2 side to every story

[Lefty-Canuck]

A lot of the farmers I know will flat out tell you they don’t have “elk” problems they have “elk hunter” problems. One farmer had a WT doe shot and left in his driveway, a spike elk shot and left at the gate of a pasture, and another young raghorn gut shot and left to die in the middle of his field. Fences cut across the land in January by “cow elk” hunters on ski-doos, etc. It is no wonder many say no. Thanks to some of the above antics, I have had to find new places to go because the landowners have just had enough and it’s easier to deal with the elk than the hunters.

LC

[cody j]

I'm not familiar with this area, but sometimes it only takes one or two influential people to raise a ruckus with municipal council. Maybe there is a widespread out of control problem, maybe not. I know from personal experience that elk can cause a lot of damage, of course there is also people who may feel that one elk in the canola is too many. Lots of different variables and perspectives on this.

[GWN]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A lot of the farmers I know will flat out tell you they don’t have “elk” problems they have “elk hunter” problems. One farmer had a WT doe shot and left in his driveway, a spike elk shot and left at the gate of a pasture, and another young raghorn gut shot and left to die in the middle of his field. Fences cut across the land in January by “cow elk” hunters on ski-doos, etc. It is no wonder many say no. Thanks to some of the above antics, I have had to find new places to go because the landowners have just had enough and it’s easier to deal with the elk than the hunters.

LC

Agree whole heartedly, I lived in Grande Prairie for 22 years, hunted the Spirit River area every year there and never had a problem getting access, of course I did things alot of 'hunters' never did or do:

Ask permission ahead of time and at reasonable times (not 5:30 am when you think you see something shootable)

Be respectful at all times, you have no idea of the owner's situation or issues he may have had with other 'hunters'

Take being told no graciously,

When given access thank the owner and find out his terms (exact area to hunt, vehicle/foot access only, fences and gates, safe lanes of fire etc) and then comply exactly

Thank the owner at the end of your hunt and or season

Far too many 'hunters' think its their god given right to hunt where they want when they want, these are very often the same people that give the bare minimum when something is asked of them but demand everything when they want something

Given the landowners I've met and dealt with over the years along with the 'hunters' I'm truly grateful and amazed at the number of owners who still grant access,

Oh, and here's a pro trip for you whiny little 'hunters', that's not an elk in the blaze orange vest along the tree line so dont scope him, he shoots back

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

A lot of the farmers I know will flat out tell you they don’t have “elk” problems they have “elk hunter” problems. One farmer had a WT doe shot and left in his driveway, a spike elk shot and left at the gate of a pasture, and another young raghorn gut shot and left to die in the middle of his field. Fences cut across the land in January by “cow elk” hunters on ski-doos, etc. It is no wonder many say no. Thanks to some of the above antics, I have had to find new places to go because the landowners have just had enough and it’s easier to deal with the elk than the hunters.

LC

I am actually quite surprised at how much permission is granted from Ranchers and Farmers alike. To put up with all the garbage that comes with letting complete strangers access your land (usually with nothing to gain from it other than headache) is truly outstanding and should be commended.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

I don't consider this some sort of game.
Or the land owner that won't let hunters on BECAUSE he has an argument with an outfitter .
My first scenario has been played out before.
We also have been denied access because the previous group cross contaminated a field when asked not to- and it was local residents that did that .
It is the reason I prefer to hunt Crown land a lot .
BTE I don't care if a land owner says " no" I tell him thanks and have a nice day and go elsewhwere
Cat

[cowgirl82.1]

Originally Posted by IL Bar

Ok. Good job. You boys ****ed off this farmer this morning. Two can play this game. How about this:
Hunter “Can I go hunt your land?”
Farmer “Sure but your the 12th guy to ask”
Hunter “Ok Thanks”

One week later hunter calls up farmer
“You’re a f&#&$n a&#$#&#e because you let other guys in. They got elk and now there gone. I can only hunt Friday afternoons from 2-3. Boo hoo!”
Or
“You let an outfitter hunt too. That makes you a no good piece of s*$t”
Don’t think it happens? Cause it does.

Ok so fair enough you got a point. But here is the thing about that. People hunt on my families land each year, but we know when to say “no”. If you have 12 people wanting to hunt on your land tell some of them no. It is not safe to allow so many people out hunting on your property like that (someone is bound to shoot someone and you will get in trouble because you gave them permitted them to hunt). Set a limit say you only want 3 people or something hunting on your land. As the land owner it is your job to ensure the protection of the people you allow hunt.

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Farmer" I got elk damaging my crops !"
Warden" I know some hunters who can help you out with that "
Farmer" oh, we don't allow hunters on our land!"
Cat

It is rarely a situation as simple as you describe.

[Pilsner Man]

It’s funny how people think you just show up in the saddle hills and kill elk.

Check out the harvest numbers. Slightly higher than the province average. But 2/3 hunters go home empty handed.

Then consider out of town people who have no idea where to look for them. Now you just have more people pushing the animals harder and making it tougher for the guys who actually know what they are doing.

At the end of the day they are still elk that are hard to kill and most hunters are too lazy to effectively kill elk on a regular basis.

I’m 100% against a cull but brining in more hunters is not the solution either.

[sendmethem]

Originally Posted by Pilsner Man

It’s funny how people think you just show up in the saddle hills and kill elk.

Check out the harvest numbers. Slightly higher than the province average. But 2/3 hunters go home empty handed.

Then consider out of town people who have no idea where to look for them. Now you just have more people pushing the animals harder and making it tougher for the guys who actually know what they are doing.

At the end of the day they are still elk that are hard to kill and most hunters are too lazy to effectively kill elk on a regular basis.

I’m 100% against a cull but brining in more hunters is not the solution either.

x2
Hunters are unlikely to be the solution here if a serious reduction in elk numbers becomes the management objective. As noted they are tough to kill and with such a long season they are very well educated. We hunted hard for 5 days late December up there deep in the timber and by the time we dragged the elk in pieces back to the truck the last thing I was thinking was let's do that again tomorrow. Extra tags in everyone's pockets will unlikely double the yield.

[mac1983]

When the CO came out to my land to review the elk damaged hay stack, he had lots of ideas but none that really worked, and the compensation wasn't really worth it. The one that really stuck with me was to get the FN out, I just laughed and said have a nice day as I have enough trouble with people not respecting private land. So I just accept the loss of a few acres of crop as the price of a peaceful mind. Now I just set up cell cams and hunt the poachers, quite fun actually. I feel for the landowners up in Spirit River and Wanham areas where there large herds that do cause a lot of damage, we are just doing our part to feed the world...

[skidderman]

People that bash farmers should be ashamed. The reason farmers don't allow access is because of slob hunters. Don't ask permission, leave gates open, drive over swaths & so on. And it isn't as easy as some councillor might think. If elk are on farmland they come in the dark & leave in the dark. During winter the elk congregate into big herds. By Sept they scatter. On paper it looks easy. That is a very large area with a lot of heavy bush. I hunt there approx 20 days a year & last year did not get my elk & I'm pretty good at it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

It is rarely a situation as simple as you describe.

I never inferred that it was
Cat