Saving Alberta Parks

[Jokey75]

There is small survey you can fill out which at this site which will let your MLA know that you care about the Parks in Alberta that are slated to be shut down.
You dont have to give your info, other than postal code, and it took me about 30 seconds to fill out including a comment on how important these places are to my family.

You might be surprised at how many of these places you and your family have visited over the years. After going through the list I found that I have been to 11 of them in the last 2 years.

Many of these are access areas to prime fishing locations and that could be gone if something were to happen to these down the road. I am not going to get into what could happen to this land if the parks are shut down or the whole political discussion around them.

But if you think fishing places are crowded now (and I know there are tons of threads on this site saying so) think about how it might look if these places were gone.

I encourage you to take 30 seconds to add your voice.

https://www.iusealbertaparks.org/

Cheers

J

[kujoseto]

Oh man that list is long. Gonna take me a good while.
I’d rather pay $5.70 per year for my household

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Oh man that list is long. Gonna take me a good while.
I’d rather pay $5.70 per year for my household

Yup me too. Once they’re gone that it they ain’t coming back.
We already have campground shortages..

[kujoseto]

I almost never go to the fly fishing threads. I wonder if this should be moved to the general discussions to get more traffic.
A lot of these sites aren’t for fishing. Take the Sherwood Park natural area for example. We run there, walk there, take the kids to see wildlife all times of year. Wife was talking about it just this week telling the kids she heard the birds will eat seed from your hands so they want to go try it.

[Jokey75]

I posted this in the main forum as well. Dropped pretty quickly as do most "conservation" oriented posts in there.

J

[Jokey75]

update.....related article....

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ate-parks.html

J

[Dielbo]

This is such a bad idea (these closures).

All of these are slated for "delisting" (loses park status, reverts to crown land):

Ghost Reservoir,
Jumpingpound Creek,
Pine Top,
Lusk Creek,
Highwood River,
Cataract Creek,
North Ram River,
Prairie Creek,
Oldman River
Etc

Sh*t this is super depressing. I'm making an appointment to go see my MLA. I'll never vote UCP again, ever, if this goes through.

[grunt007]

we all need to act on this subject 5 million is not a lot of money for the recreation we get from these lakes and parks, If they want to get rid of them they will have to be reclaimed and accesses made impassable so they cannot be used or they would have to monitor them. This means no access to many lakes and that would put an end to stocking program. Someone needs to get thinking about the cost to reclaim these sites and what it cost us all to build these sites Everyone needs to give some ideas how to continue keeping these parks open. please go to the site fill out and submit your ideas. I would be quite willing to pay a yearly Provincial Park and Crow Land Fee to use boat launches and day use areas buy a sticker the same as you do for the national park, you could then use all provincial park accesses. This would also include people camping out on crown land as well no one should get something for nothing we are all in this together. If fees can generate enough maybe some improvements could be made in places to help access so more people will use the sites to keep the parks viable.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Dielbo

This is such a bad idea (these closures).

Sh*t this is super depressing. I'm making an appointment to go see my MLA. I'll never vote UCP again, ever, if this goes through.

Please go convince 20 of your closest friends to do the same, regardless if it does go through.

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by Dielbo

Sh*t this is super depressing. I'm making an appointment to go see my MLA. I'll never vote UCP again, ever, if this goes through.

Really? What is your alternative when it comes to voting? (Rhetorical as we don’t need to dig that up in this thread perhaps)
It’s probably an illusion that we live in a democracy to begin with, but you’re doing the right thing by going to see your MLA.
At the end of the day, there is not much within our control. If we bombard the offices with letters that is probably the most we can do.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Really? What is your alternative when it comes to voting? (Rhetorical as we don’t need to dig that up in this thread perhaps)

Too late!
I'll bite!
There's a very strong alternative.
Hint: she was premier from 2015-2019

[highwood]

Originally Posted by smitty9

Too late!
I'll bite!
There's a very strong alternative.
Hint: she was premier from 2015-2019

I agree with you. But good luck floating that idea around many in this group.

[thumper]

CPAWS & AWA fear-mongering.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by thumper

CPAWS & AWA fear-mongering.

Exactly!

[Smoky buck]

If they are just returning to crown land I have no issue

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by thumper

CPAWS & AWA fear-mongering.

What do you base this on?

[Dielbo]

Originally Posted by thumper

CPAWS & AWA fear-mongering.

I have no idea why you would say that. You're in a fly-fishing sub on an outdoors site and you think what Alberta needs is less parks and campgrounds and fewer places to fish? Have you been outside lately? K-country is completely overrun with people this summer, campgrounds are completely booked, plus all the free campers on Crown land. We need more areas not less. All this action would do is concentrate more people into less space. And for what?

If they do this (closing and delisting) it will save you about $0.25 on your taxes or less. These areas lose park status and all protections associated as such. Then permits for mining, logging, etc, can be granted down the road. So you end up with situations like the proposed coal mining operations on Alberta's premier cutthroat stream (North Ram river). Even if they get leased for grazing, it makes access more difficult and results in higher pressure on nearby parks and recreation spaces.

This was a huge mistake by Jason Nixon (and the UCP) and I have no idea what even prompted this idea. Who looks around our province and thinks "yeah, we need less parks and less places to fish?!?"

Lastly, all of what I saying ignores all the other activities that people use our parks for. Just because my thing is fishing doesn't mean I have to be selfish and not care about other people who are into kayaking, canoeing, bird-watching, hiking. mountain biking, scrambling, etc.

It's bizarre and depressing that some people allow their political affiliation to overrun common sense and support things that are against their own self-interest. I promise to send you $0.25 per year (hell, I'll give you one dollar per annum if you want) to leave our parks alone. Just send me your address and I'll get your quarter sent out asap.

[SNAPFisher]

Some good points Dieblo about the mining, etc.

I'm surprised though that you would surprised about Jason Nixon though. After all, one of the first moves was to kill the Bighorn provincial park idea form the NDP. Why not just continue on and kill the rest to save money. Seems to be following the same agenda.

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

Unlike coal mines which will provide 200 jobs for 20 years, Rivers are a financial godsend and can attract people from around the world for hundreds of years. The furthest I’ve meet anglers was from Marseilles, France.
And if the process for mines continues as it has in Alberts, the taxpayer will clean up the mess.

The owner of the land loses both ways.

Don

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by smitty9

Too late!
I'll bite!
There's a very strong alternative.
Hint: she was premier from 2015-2019

So for the sake of this one decision on the parks, you’d want the rest of the package with it? Not me.
While the rest of us were told it wasn’t that bad and we should give her a chance and not gripe so much, the same voices need to do the same now - and do things like write letters to the minister and MLAs. It might actually work as that’s how it’s supposed to work.

[Jokey75]

Anyone recall the kicking and screaming Nixon did in 2018 in regards to what he felt was not enough consultation on the proposed Bighorn Rec area?

Compare that with NO consultation on this and in fact a it was recommended to his office that he engage in consults that he completely ignored and went forward with.

His office took the time in the last year to put out surveys and talk to anglers about increasing recreational fishing opportunities in the province. Closing access points to fishing is does not align with that focus.

This is not about saving money....it's all about resource development in the future. Anyone who is on this site should give a damn or stop considering yourself an outdoorsman.

J

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

If they are just returning to crown land I have no issue

Agreed.

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

This is not about saving money....it's all about resource development in the future. Anyone who is on this site should give a damn or stop considering yourself an outdoorsman.

I think it’s claims like this that really don’t help persuade people to your side of the issue. ‘Because you have a different view point - that means you don’t care or aren’t truly an outdoorsmen’. Sad to see, but so prevalent in today’s society I feel.

I personally don’t believe this is about future resource development, but I’m open to seeing some factually based reasoning that suggests otherwise.

[Jokey75]

You're right....that was a bit heated.

As far as evidence that this govt is willing to sell Crown land for development you can look back to spring of this year when they sold Crown land to a potato farming company. This was despite the fact that Nixon himself said earlier that "no crown land will be sold".

The buyer of the land is a huge donor to the UCP, and many other conservative lobby groups, and in the past has used numbered companies to donate tens of thousands.

There are a ton of articles out there about this transaction but this is the most detailed one I found....

https://kimsiever.ca/2020/04/02/the-...own-land-deal/



They might not sell these parks outright, they may just lease it, but it amounts to the same thing. Turning parks into cash for people loyal to their cause. The former parks minister is now head of the Coal Assoc of Canada and pushed hard for the new law that over turned the ban on open pit coal mining. A law they over turned because they said it was redundant. if so....why not just leave it alone? Projects are being looked at it was the first step.

You don't do something like this outright, with no consultation, to save a paltry sum like this unless someone already has their eye on these areas.
Do I have evidence that there is currently someone looking to develop these? No....no one does. Unfortunately this will end up being one of those situations where you won't know until it's too late.

J

[bhobson]

A coworker went me this link re CPAWS

https://cpawsnab.org/alberta-parks-fact-check/

If I read it correctly Point 4 indicates "1002 randomly selected respondents from across the province" were polled. I do not know anybody polled. Maybe I do not have enough friends/family/coworkers

[Jokey75]

Originally Posted by bhobson

A coworker went me this link re CPAWS

https://cpawsnab.org/alberta-parks-fact-check/

If I read it correctly Point 4 indicates "1002 randomly selected respondents from across the province" were polled. I do not know anybody polled. Maybe I do not have enough friends/family/coworkers

Right....CPAWS did a poll but the govt did no consulting.

J

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by bhobson

A coworker went me this link re CPAWS

https://cpawsnab.org/alberta-parks-fact-check/

If I read it correctly Point 4 indicates "1002 randomly selected respondents from across the province" were polled. I do not know anybody polled. Maybe I do not have enough friends/family/coworkers

CPAWS is nothing but another puppet arm of Y2Y.

[CNP]

De-listing these parks is a good idea. You can't convince me otherwise. The Parks in question are underused/small and in my mind are a maintenance/enforcement burden on taxpayers. Revert to crown land or lease them to entrepreneurs for creating private parks.

This subject has been beat to death in the general forum. Now we're down to using the fly fishing forum as a backstop for the NDP?

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by CNP

De-listing these parks is a good idea. You can't convince me otherwise. The Parks in question are underused/small and in my mind are a maintenance/enforcement burden on taxpayers. Revert to crown land or lease them to entrepreneurs for creating private parks.

This subject has been beat to death in the general forum. Now we're down to using the fly fishing forum as a backstop for the NDP?

In the late 90's, I worked at Aspen Beach in Gull Lake. That's a perfect example of allowing a private operator to look after a provincial park. We had the two campgrounds and the public beach and day use area. Had a small burger stand there as well. The company i worked for ran the place FAR better than when it was government run. Well kept, clean sites, and a win for the government and the operator who had to bid to operate it on a term of a few years at a time. The same concept is used in BC for backcountry lodges. Owned by BC parks and operated privately with a term of so many years.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

In the late 90's, I worked at Aspen Beach in Gull Lake. That's a perfect example of allowing a private operator to look after a provincial park. We had the two campgrounds and the public beach and day use area. Had a small burger stand there as well. The company i worked for ran the place FAR better than when it was government run. Well kept, clean sites, and a win for the government and the operator who had to bid to operate it on a term of a few years at a time. The same concept is used in BC for backcountry lodges. Owned by BC parks and operated privately with a term of so many years.

Chinook lake and Lundbreck Falls r private run operations.

They run well from what I can see.