Military Resources to Ukraine exceeds aid to Canada's own Military

[curtz]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Most of the money is not money. It’s equipment. Some of it is older and should have been replaced years ago. Carl Gustav launchers, leopard tanks.

Send them where they will do some good.

Buy our soldiers what they need and deserve in 2023.

And some of this money is coming back. That company that sent armoured trucks. How many countries will buy their trucks now? How many permanent good paying jobs will come from that?

It’s likely the USA will earn back every dime they send to Ukraine in orders for their stuff.

The only reason to complain about sending stuff to Ukraine once you know facts and not spin, is if you sympathize with Putin.

Also agree

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I shoot with a warrant officer based out of Edmonton, and he was happy to hear that the military budget had been increased, but disappointed, to learn that all of the increase and more went to the Ukraine, and to diversity programs. He tells me that they have less and less equipment available, because of a lack of funds to repair broken down equipment.

If he is a warrant officer
Then he has a little time in so he understands how to make due.

As for this Putin fella it is our fight indirectly without crossing certain lines.

All countries contributing are in it just no boots on the ground.

Got to send a message to this Putin jerk somehow.


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[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Look again...

“You heard what General Eyre (Chief of Defence Staff) said,” Harries responds. “When asked … are the Canadian forces ready for what’s happening, he said ‘No, I lose sleep at night about them not being ready.’” We have a country that has given Ukraine more military resources in a year than it’s given the Canadian forces in the last decade.

I guess it depends on what you call "military resources".

ARG

Equipment is the most likely reference that fits the narrative. Not money.

That makes sense… however Canada hasn’t given new stuff to Ukraine. Seems mostly our used stuff. That old equipment would need to be replaced at some point in time. Now it needs to be replaced.

However given Trudeau’s administrative approval times… should be replaced in 100 years.

Still… providing this equipment to Ukraine to help protect their country, their soldiers, their families from an illegal invasion is the prudent thing to do.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

And some of this money is coming back. That company that sent armoured trucks. How many countries will buy their trucks now? How many permanent good paying jobs will come from that?

I'm gonna guess 1 and maybe zero. They've been in production for what, 5 years and have exported 10 so far?

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by EZM

Canada has committed roughly 1 billion in aid

Just for perspective, Ukraine currently needs up to 60 billion of external help a year to keep their country operational, ie pensions, government salaries, etc, nothing exquisite, but to keep things they way they are right now - that is, at a minimum. This is given things do not worsen more and there is a huge potential that they will and maybe significantly. They also need about as much (or more) in military aid per year, also to keep things the way they are right now with no guarantees for improvement (and likely the opposite). That doesn’t include humanitarian and other aid, as well as housing and supporting about 9 million refugees around the world, making up at least a 5th of the country’s population (likely closer to a quarter if not more because the official population count is far from accurate according to the western experts on the subject), most of whom are never coming back and there is a good chance more people will leave (men cannot leave the country now and a whole bunch would if they could to avoid forced mobilization to be sent to the meat grinder). Add the undoubtedly coming demographic crisis of likely epic proportions.

So that $1B is probably within a margin of error when compared to the reality and what I described above is a very compact and a tip-of-the-iceberg type of summary of that reality.

[Jim]

The US and the west has a pretty bad record for getting involved in other countries wars. Vietnam over a decade being involved billions of dollars spent with a end result of a loss. Afghanistan two decades being involved trillions of dollars spent end result a loss. Iraq two decades involvement with trillions of dollars spent with end result being a loss. Have to be pretty optimistic to think this time will be different.

It is time the west learns from past adventures and loss and push Ukraine for a negotiated peace deal. Without NATO supplies and equipment they are done in a couple months. Tired of paying $40000 a year in taxes to see it ****ed away in these crap hole countries that has nothing to do with me. Make a deal and be done with it. The sooner this war is over the sooner those refugees from Ukraine can pack their bags and return home. Tired of working 3 jobs so I can eat and have a roof over my head and seeing my tax money ****ed away on people and places that have nothing to do with me.

[Savage Bacon]

Originally Posted by Jim

The US and the west has a pretty bad record for getting involved in other countries wars. Vietnam over a decade being involved billions of dollars spent with a end result of a loss. Afghanistan two decades being involved trillions of dollars spent end result a loss. Iraq two decades involvement with trillions of dollars spent with end result being a loss. Have to be pretty optimistic to think this time will be different.



It is time the west learns from past adventures and loss and push Ukraine for a negotiated peace deal. Without NATO supplies and equipment they are done in a couple months. Tired of paying $40000 a year in taxes to see it ****ed away in these crap hole countries that has nothing to do with me. Make a deal and be done with it. The sooner this war is over the sooner those refugees from Ukraine can pack their bags and return home. Tired of working 3 jobs so I can eat and have a roof over my head and seeing my tax money ****ed away on people and places that have nothing to do with me.

Bingo

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[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by Jim

The US and the west has a pretty bad record for getting involved in other countries wars. Vietnam over a decade being involved billions of dollars spent with a end result of a loss. Afghanistan two decades being involved trillions of dollars spent end result a loss. Iraq two decades involvement with trillions of dollars spent with end result being a loss. Have to be pretty optimistic to think this time will be different.

It is time the west learns from past adventures and loss and push Ukraine for a negotiated peace deal. Without NATO supplies and equipment they are done in a couple months. Tired of paying $40000 a year in taxes to see it ****ed away in these crap hole countries that has nothing to do with me. Make a deal and be done with it. The sooner this war is over the sooner those refugees from Ukraine can pack their bags and return home. Tired of working 3 jobs so I can eat and have a roof over my head and seeing my tax money ****ed away on people and places that have nothing to do with me.

Thank goodness you weren’t in charge in 1939

[ruffy71]

Trying to do some quick math and if your 40000 in taxes it looks like 50 bucks has gone to ukraine. You could have quit one of your three jobs easy!

[Jim]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Thank goodness you weren’t in charge in 1939

Ukraine is not a NATO member, NATO and the west owes Ukraine nothing. In World War II Canada was an ally of England therefore Canada got involved. Read a history book. If Russia goes after a NATO member country then by all means get involved until then stay away from this money pit.

[coolpete1]

USSR was ukraine too , not our borders , not our problem . Maybe crooked zelinsky should have picked a different guy to beak off to.

[ruffy71]

Was Poland part of nato in 1939? Did nato exist in 1939?

Let’s get the mods to shut this down.

Ciao.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Was Poland part of nato in 1939? Did nato exist in 1939?

Let’s get the mods to shut this down.

Ciao.

Yep someone disagrees with your opinion shut down the debate quickly.

[cody j]

Originally Posted by Jim

Ukraine is not a NATO member, NATO and the west owes Ukraine nothing. In World War II Canada was an ally of England therefore Canada got involved. Read a history book. If Russia goes after a NATO member country then by all means get involved until then stay away from this money pit.

Isn’t this where everyone labels you as pro Putin for not 100% supporting every dollar given to Zelensky for as long as he wants with no strings attatched?

[roper1]

I think we can agree Zelensky has his issues, but most would agree they pale in comparison to Comrade Vladdie.

The pickle seems to be how to deliver Ukrainian aid, equipment seems to be more transparent than cash.

No intention on closing the thread, please keep it respectful. Thanks

[hogie]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Was Poland part of nato in 1939? Did nato exist in 1939?

Let’s get the mods to shut this down.

Ciao.

History is interesting, pretty sure Ukrainians killed polish in ww2 as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...L6M2c-E9Itbdxw

Messed up area. Want to support it get on a plane and go. They have been fighting there for centuries, never ends. Same as middle east, except it's different when western countries invade a country.

Lots of people are willing to support , question is are the willing to spill blood of their own. Wars are always won on the ground, technology is second.

[ruffy71]

Okey dokey.
Ukraine was part of the USSR…..
So was Estonia Latvia and Lithuania.

In WW 2 quite a few Lithuanians participated in persecuting Jews. Many Lithuanians are ethnically Russian. There are white supremicists living in Lithuania. Vilnius is virtually the same distance to Moscow as Kyiv.

And they are part of NATO.

So we will sacrifice our soldiers and even if it means nuclear war for Lithuanians. But Ukraine is a crap hole that isn’t worth ****.

Gotcha.

If you are thinking I don’t respect Lithuanians or they don’t deserve our support you are missing the point entirely.

[ruffy71]

Ukraine is more corrupt than Russia?

If the Ukrainians and only the Ukrainians are crazy, why does Poland hate Russia? Estonia ? Latvia? Lithuania?

Here’s a hint, unlike all of us, they actually remember what it’s like to be rescued by Russia.

[marxman]

I think the Russians should be beat in ukraine, they have no respect for ukraine as a nation. How far is this going to go? Crimea has more Russians than Ukrainians. Crimea was trying to make they're own constitution in the 90s but it was overuled by ukraine. When the Russians took over crimea ukraine cut off 80 percent of they're water supply and their crops failed. Not sure the logic of doing that to your own people. At the start of this war the Russians blew up the dam the Ukrainians had built on the canal to crimea and crimea got their water back.no one is really talking how far this war should go and zelensky says all the way. No way Russia is going to give up crimea

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

If he is a warrant officer
Then he has a little time in so he understands how to make due.

As for this Putin fella it is our fight indirectly without crossing certain lines.

All countries contributing are in it just no boots on the ground.

Got to send a message to this Putin jerk somehow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Make due amounts to parking equipment, until there is money to buy parts, meanwhile there is money to send to the Ukraine, and for diversity programs.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Ukraine is more corrupt than Russia?

If the Ukrainians and only the Ukrainians are crazy, why does Poland hate Russia? Estonia ? Latvia? Lithuania?

Here’s a hint, unlike all of us, they actually remember what it’s like to be rescued by Russia.

They really don't like each other. In one way or another they sided with Germany as needed or the USSR in ww2. What ever was in best interests at the time.

Why get involved with blood conflicts from centuries?

If you feel it's worthy then get over there. I don't want kids from here having to fight your battles.

[ruffy71]

I’m too old, unfortunately or I would go over there. I’d slow a real soldier down and might get him killed.

Let’s all stop thanking our dead veterans for intervening where they didn’t belong.
Dying in Hong Kong? Idiots

Dying in the Netherlands? Duped.

Dying in Korea, Afghanistan? They should have known better than to get involved.

Cause of course Canada could survive in this world if we told everyone including all our allies to F off and leave us alone.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

I’m too old, unfortunately or I would go over there. I’d slow a real soldier down and might get him killed.

Let’s all stop thanking our dead veterans for intervening where they didn’t belong.
Dying in Hong Kong? Idiots

Dying in the Netherlands? Duped.

Dying in Korea, Afghanistan? They should have known better than to get involved.

Cause of course Canada could survive in this world if we told everyone including all our allies to F off and leave us alone.

Good news is lots of roles you can do behind the scenes. Don't let your age get in the way.

Different times in history, Japanese were brutal in the 30s. USSR was equally bad to all of its citizens. Germany wasn't far behind and did there best to surpass them all.

My problem with this is when does it ever end? They have changed borders for centuries, it won't ever change. Maybe people in these areas need to move forward and not live in the past. Fighting for there grandfather instead of their child.

We are lucky in Canada. No real bad blood because we all came from places that had it. Ones that came here had enough. Maybe that's why we are so polite.

[ak77]

How fast back in the history y'all want to go. Because stopping at the arbitrary point when it suits you is a crappy argument...
Dig it far/deep enough - everyone at some point messed with everybody.

[raab]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

If he is a warrant officer
Then he has a little time in so he understands how to make due.

As for this Putin fella it is our fight indirectly without crossing certain lines.

All countries contributing are in it just no boots on the ground.

Got to send a message to this Putin jerk somehow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am amazed how many people do not realize we are in this war whether we like it or not. And if we lose this war, your children may not know the freedom all Canadians once had.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by ak77

How fast back in the history y'all want to go. Because stopping at the arbitrary point when it suits you is a crappy argument...
Dig it far/deep enough - everyone at some point messed with everybody.

Yep, humans suck. Hardwired to fight, just how far it will go is a different story. Sad.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Then when Russia makes a land grab in the Arctic, Trudeau could head up for a ribbon cutting and apology for our help to the Ukraine. Maybe set up some Russian police stations in Alberta.

It’s a slippery slope to give into evil out of fear or indifference.

Who are you kidding?
If Sock Boy gets a report that Russia has invaded the Arctic he will be on a plane to Jamaica in seconds, and never look back.

[big_plinker]

Originally Posted by dmac

I doubt that. Their (Russia’s) military is crap. I support a Kill ‘em all approach. Give the Ukrainians what they require.

Kill 'em all is what you're going to get.
Arms dealers don't care who it hits, as long as the munitions keep getting used and replaced, they're happy.
This is going to spread. The economic damage is already unprecedented.
You think Russia is coming over the Beren Straight, when there are still giant tracts of Siberia, full of as many resources as Canada has, they can't access? China needs a lot more room than Russia, and they've already bought our government.
But whatever, no one's listen to reason these days, certainly can't expect it around here.

[big_plinker]

Originally Posted by raab

I am amazed how many people do not realize we are in this war whether we like it or not. And if we lose this war, your children may not know the freedom all Canadians once had.

That war is long lost buddy.
Our children will never know the freedoms Canadians once had.
I'm pretty sure most Canadians don't remember the freedom Canadians once had.
And it's not communism you should be blaming.
It's edge stage capitalism, and the death of the middle class.
Enjoy the show.

[raab]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Who are you kidding?
If Sock Boy gets a report that Russia has invaded the Arctic he will be on a plane to Jamaica in seconds, and never look back.

Who do you think the traitor works for? Why do you think he’s kicking our best fighters out of the military and trying to disarm Canadians? Why does he say he admires Red China’s dictatorship? Why has he taken money from the Chicoms? Why will he not look into foreign interference in our elections? Who divided this country by stoking the flaming of division calling truckers fascists and white supeemacist despite knowing of a disinformation campaigns against Canadians?

I do not think you could plant a better Manchurian Candidate.