Outfitters in Alberta??

[bchap22]

I know this may be a touchy subject but im just curious about some opinions about outfitters here in alberta. Personally I have not heard one good thing about the ones north of Lloydminster with their less than ethical antics. I know it is only one out of many and i'm sure they aren't the only outfit that is willing to break the law to profit from it. I understand its pretty far fetched idea but IMHO i don't think Alberta wildlife or hunters/residents would suffer if we got rid of the outfitters auctioning off our wildlife to the highest bidder. I could go on and on about the pros to get rid of outfitters but im not going to bother im just curious as to how many you would be for getting rid of them regardless of whether or not you could afford to go on a guided hunt. After reading through a few of the threads on here it seems like SRD gives the outfitters/non-resident hunters higher priority than the actual residents that live here.

[Justin.C]

[mhd]

Originally Posted by bchap22

I know this may be a touchy subject but im just curious about some opinions about outfitters here in alberta. Personally I have not heard one good thing about the ones north of Lloydminster with their less than ethical antics. I know it is only one out of many and i'm sure they aren't the only outfit that is willing to break the law to profit from it. I understand its pretty far fetched idea but IMHO i don't think Alberta wildlife or hunters/residents would suffer if we got rid of the outfitters auctioning off our wildlife to the highest bidder. I could go on and on about the pros to get rid of outfitters but im not going to bother im just curious as to how many you would be for getting rid of them regardless of whether or not you could afford to go on a guided hunt. After reading through a few of the threads on here it seems like SRD gives the outfitters/non-resident hunters higher priority than the actual residents that live here.

Agreed.I would say get rid of them but I have never been on a guided hunt and I would hope that there is some good outfitters out there.

[avb3]

Many outfitters I know are good and ethical operators.

The issue I have is that APOS keeps those that have been convicted of game violations in Canada, the United States, and possibly in New Zealand.

Yes, that person operates in the Lloydminster area.

Their disciplinary committee deals more with issues where clients feel they have been ripped off, and less so with the criminals they allow to keep operating.

Really WOW yet again Outfitters you can tell it’s that time of year.

[elkhunter11]

There are some excellent outfitters in Alberta, and there is room for outfitters to co-exist with resident hunters, if the system is revised so that non resident hunter opportunity does not come at the expense of Alberta resident hunting opportunity. As for APOS, the fact that they allow convicted criminals, and convicted poachers to remain members, means that I have no respect at all for the organization.

[moose maniac]

Major changes are needed in the outfitting industry,but I am doubtful it will ever happen,the current rules regarding outfitting is where a lot of this bashing stems from

[bchap22]

the thing that makes me angry is that non-resident hunters should not have an even close opportunity as i do when it comes to hunting all animals. The alberta prime time video does make my blood boil. Just because someone has money and wants to come to alberta to hunt doesn't mean i should have to take a back seat and wait for my draw. It there are changes to any regs of a certain species then the changes should affect the non-resident hunters before it even touches the resident hunters.

[H380]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

There are some excellent outfitters in Alberta, and there is room for outfitters to co-exist with resident hunters, if the system is revised so that non resident hunter opportunity does not come at the expense of Alberta resident hunting opportunity. As for APOS, the fact that they allow convicted criminals, and convicted poachers to remain members, means that I have no respect at all for the organization.

Well said .

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by bchap22

the thing that makes me angry is that non-resident hunters should not have an even close opportunity as i do when it comes to hunting all animals. The alberta prime time video does make my blood boil. Just because someone has money and wants to come to alberta to hunt doesn't mean i should have to take a back seat and wait for my draw. It there are changes to any regs of a certain species then the changes should affect the non-resident hunters before it even touches the resident hunters.

Very true. I agree 100%

[packhuntr]

These threads are just unbelievably embarrasing. You guys getting all poopy bum because you WILLINGLY shot the ever living hell out of your (OUR) game BY CHOICE. Now your looking around like a pack of frothing at the mouth dogs seeking to take a very small handful of tags from these guys, basically anyone that might have one left!
Edit: How bout a little accountabilty, how bout practicing a little restraint?
Why does no one care to fix the problem in this province?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

These threads are just unbelievably embarrasing. You guys getting all poopy bum because you WILLINGLY shot the ever living hell out of your (OUR) game BY CHOICE. Now your looking around like a pack of frothing at the mouth dogs seeking to take a very small handful of tags from these guys, basically anyone that might have one left!
Edit: How bout a little accountabilty, how bout practicing a little restraint?
Why does no one care to fix the problem in this province?

Pack now you blame the resident hunters...how about the folks that administrate the "system"? If hunters are given an opportunity they will use it its human nature. If the speed limit was raised to 120 would you still drive 110 cause you feel 120 is too fast? People will work within what's given to them. I appreciate some like yourself have more constraint than some others.

Its not the hunters, the guide, or the guided hunters....its the system and the decision making folks...we work within the system given to us.

LC

[870wing]

I did a little research. In zone 402, it takes a priority of 14 to get drawn for antlered moose. That means, if you start at the age of 12 and continue entering the draw until you're 82, statistically you will get drawn FIVE times in your life. Realistically FOUR. As we have very few 82 year old hunters.
As a Non-resident alien, in the same time period, you can hunt a moose in that zone SEVENTY years in a row.
DO YOU NOT SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT??

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by avb3

Many outfitters I know are good and ethical operators.

The issue I have is that APOS keeps those that have been convicted of game violations in Canada, the United States, and possibly in New Zealand.

Yes, that person operates in the Lloydminster area.

Their disciplinary committee deals more with issues where clients feel they have been ripped off, and less so with the criminals they allow to keep operating.

Yup! X2.

Originally Posted by 870wing

As a Non-resident alien, in the same time period, you can hunt a moose in that zone SEVENTY years in a row.
DO YOU NOT SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT??

Exactly. I live here. In my opinion, the residents of Alberta should get the most opportunity to harvest animals in our province. Sell some tags to non-residents, but at this point all these outfitters want are thier allocations, and don't really care about resident hunters. We see and hear of so many stories of them 'buying' permission and locking up access. I'm sorry, my opinion is tainted even though there ARE some good and ethical outfitters out there.


As for packhunter... well...

[packhuntr]

Perfect LeftyC. Then I suppose folks need to make sure when they decide to organize, to isolate and change the issue where it originates, they will be sure to claim that they nearly single handedly are the reason these resources are in the toilet, its no longer acceptable, and change is required so all can enjoy these resources.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Yup! X2.



As for packhunter... well...

Thats some pretty funny stuff alright. Good for your, give yourself a round of applause.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Perfect. Then I suppose folks need to make sure when they decide to organize, to isolate and change the issue, they will be sure to claim that they nearly single handedly are the reason these resources are in the toilet, its no longer acceptable, and change is required so all can enjoy these resources.

At least we can all agree change is needed.....attitudes towards what we have in Alberta and what we are willing to give up to have this recover (if its possible) is a good place to start.

No individual group is to blame in all this....the true root of the issue lies in the administation of all the contrbuting systems.

Because I don't make the rules, you don't make the rules but there are people who do.

LC

[Tatonka]

Here's my take on the topic of outfitters... Here in Montana we deal with some of the same issues as you folks do, but as outfitters are allowed to lease private property here it's probably even more of an issue..

Here's how I see it in Montana.... I can't speak for Alberta. Outfitters first came about to pack people back into the wilderness areas for people who didn't have the horses, spike camps, etc. to do so on their own... In my mind that is what a real outfitter does. They provide a valuable service for people without the resources and know how to pack in for a 10 day hunt. Over the years that has evolved into guys leasing private land and driving clients around in a pickup truck to shoot animals. In my mind, that is not outfitting... That is nothing more than a small number of people trying to profit off animals that belong to you and I. The landowners do not own the animals. The State of Montana owns the animals.

Montana sets a limit on the number of non-resident licenses that are sold. For the special drawings (Moose, sheep, goat, etc.) non-residents are limited to 10% of the number of tags issued.. I don't have a problem with that... Non-residents should have the opportunity to hunt here. We have millions of acres of federally owned land....Bureau of Land Management Land, National Forest, etc..... Non-residents should be able to hunt that land as well as private land if the landowners allow access. Today's population is very mobile....many people grew up here who now live in other places....they should be able to come "Home" to hunt if they have the opportunity.

In regards to "outfitters" not abiding by the laws, I see that from time to time around here but to be honest I think local hunters look for those things.... I know I do. I really don't like outfitters leasing up ground that used to be open to the local hunters. I hear landowners complaining about outfitters sneaking across fencelines onto property they have no permission to be on. Like most things in life, you have your bad apples that give everyone a bad name...

If you want to open up a can of worms around here, just mention outfitters........

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

No individual group is to blame in all this....the true root of the issue lies in the administation of all the contrbuting systems.

LC

Yup. I think though that in my limited experiance the gov't and administration is more swayed by those with deep pockets.

Look at what TJ is trying to do with having dogs as companions while hunting? As he's said before, the gov't is looking to close down access, close down opportunities to the average hunter. As opposed to wanting to manage the issue properly, and open thier ears and eyes to new reasonable opportunities.


Edit: Just read your post tatonka and I think you're quite accurate in what you're saying. A lot of folks I think feel the same way.

[mjs]

Did this exact thread just happen not too long ago.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by mjs

Did this exact thread just happen not too long ago.

Yep!

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=119237

There's been probably 2 or three dozen of the same thing in the last 3 years. Usually happens this time of year when we're all stir crazy.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

These threads are just unbelievably embarrasing. You guys getting all poopy bum because you WILLINGLY shot the ever living hell out of your (OUR) game BY CHOICE. Now your looking around like a pack of frothing at the mouth dogs seeking to take a very small handful of tags from these guys, basically anyone that might have one left!
Edit: How bout a little accountabilty, how bout practicing a little restraint?
Why does no one care to fix the problem in this province?

Again I see you got your Big Girl panties on this morning....

Your like listening to a Broken record Packhuntr....what about the animals you have shot the hell out of the last few years? Maybe you better hang up the bow and rifle the next 3 years to save a few of our animals.How about YOU practice alittle restraint!

[Justin.C]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Again I see you got your Big Girl panties on this morning....

Your like listening to a Broken record Packhuntr....what about the animals you have shot the hell out of the last few years? Maybe you better hang up the bow and rifle the next 3 years to save a few of our animals.How about YOU practice alittle restraint!

Lol. Good one. I was thinking the same thing reading his jiberish.

[flyguyd]

Dang Junkie you beat me to it.....lol

[pikergolf]

I would like to see a plebiscite on the issue. It's something that affects all Albertans, and the only guys that seem to get wound about it getting discussed, are those that have a financial interest or those that think if Ab. takes it's game off the market, the rest of the free world will follow. Southern Ab. has very limited hunting opportunities for some of it's big game, also fairly densely populated and I see no reason to bring people from outside the prov. here. I can see northern Ab. where you can buy a tag for some game and the pressure is more spread out but down here I think it's crazy. The only way I would support it is for animals, in zones that a res. can just go purchase a tag over the counter.

[Perchfisher]

Originally Posted by Justin.C

Lol. Good one. I was thinking the same thing reading his jiberish.

x3

[packhuntr]

Jeez Junkie, I dont recall utilizing any of the CWD tags litterally pounding the mules onto my wall with the earn a buck deal like alot of other guys, nor do I remember applying for any doe draws in this country EVER. I might now though, as both my w/t and mule doe priorities are around a P-7. Been saving those for the off chance I find an albino, melanistic or piebald doe one of these years. Antelope doe is high too, may have to save one of those this year as game managers feel they need to kill P-horn does when they are litterally gone? I have been utilizing general tags and pulling a high draw priority tag annually that I saved up points for years for, focusing on maximizing success with these tags. I surely am no game hog out to do a bunch of killing.
Edit::
Last year I drew Wainwright deer on a P-10. I took one deer from that base in 11 years, boy what a pig I am. Been putting my money where my mouth is for years on stuff like that knowing I could stop applying and get drawn years ago when ever I wanted to.
End Edit.
Point is Im not doing anything any different than alot of other guys that are not blood thirsty and feel the need to kill everything our game managers irresponsibly throw tags to the crowd for. The problem is management, not outfitters! You keep saying those guys are going to get it and they will never forget it LOL, when you open your eyes and want to see clearly the issues your tone will change. The only broken record is the blind masses that want-want-want. If things were being done right by SRD this fight over a few tags wouldnt even exist. Look at the numbers and tell me there is a problem there... Fix the management problem and move foreward.

[870wing]

Pack, as long as residents have to put in for draws, the problem quoted below will always exist. Allow outfitters to have tags where a resident draw is not required, or are outfitters and non-residents to greedy for that.

Originally Posted by 870wing

I did a little research. In zone 402, it takes a priority of 14 to get drawn for antlered moose. That means, if you start at the age of 12 and continue entering the draw until you're 82, statistically you will get drawn FIVE times in your life. Realistically FOUR. As we have very few 82 year old hunters.
As a Non-resident alien, in the same time period, you can hunt a moose in that zone SEVENTY years in a row.
DO YOU NOT SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT??

[drake]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Jeez Junkie, I dont recall utilizing any of the CWD tags litterally pounding the mules onto my wall with the earn a buck deal like alot of other guys, nor do I remember applying for any doe draws in this country EVER. I might now though, as both my w/t and mule doe priorities are around a P-7. Been saving those for the off chance I find an albino, melanistic or piebald doe one of these years. Antelope doe is high too, may have to save one of those this year as game managers feel they need to kill P-horn does when they are litterally gone? I have been utilizing general tags and pulling a high draw priority tag annually that I saved up points for years for, focusing on maximizing success with these tags. I surely am no game hog out to do a bunch of killing.
Edit::
Last year I drew Wainwright deer on a P-10. I took one deer from that base in 11 years, boy what a pig I am. Been putting my money where my mouth is for years on stuff like that knowing I could stop applying and get drawn years ago when ever I wanted to.
End Edit.
Point is Im not doing anything any different than alot of other guys that are not blood thirsty and feel the need to kill everything our game managers irresponsibly throw tags to the crowd for. The problem is management, not outfitters! You keep saying those guys are going to get it and they will never forget it LOL, when you open your eyes and want to see clearly the issues your tone will change. The only broken record is the blind masses that want-want-want. If things were being done right by SRD this fight over a few tags wouldnt even exist. Look at the numbers and tell me there is a problem there... Fix the management problem and move foreward.

agreed...

[mjs]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Jeez Junkie, I dont recall utilizing any of the CWD tags litterally pounding the mules onto my wall with the earn a buck deal like alot of other guys, nor do I remember applying for any doe draws in this country EVER. I might now though, as both my w/t and mule doe priorities are around a P-7. Been saving those for the off chance I find an albino, melanistic or piebald doe one of these years. Antelope doe is high too, may have to save one of those this year as game managers feel they need to kill P-horn does when they are litterally gone? I have been utilizing general tags and pulling a high draw priority tag annually that I saved up points for years for, focusing on maximizing success with these tags. I surely am no game hog out to do a bunch of killing.
Edit::
Last year I drew Wainwright deer on a P-10. I took one deer from that base in 11 years, boy what a pig I am. Been putting my money where my mouth is for years on stuff like that knowing I could stop applying and get drawn years ago when ever I wanted to.
End Edit.
Point is Im not doing anything any different than alot of other guys that are not blood thirsty and feel the need to kill everything our game managers irresponsibly throw tags to the crowd for. The problem is management, not outfitters! You keep saying those guys are going to get it and they will never forget it LOL, when you open your eyes and want to see clearly the issues your tone will change. The only broken record is the blind masses that want-want-want. If things were being done right by SRD this fight over a few tags wouldnt even exist. Look at the numbers and tell me there is a problem there... Fix the management problem and move foreward.

x2