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  #1  
Old 09-12-2018, 10:15 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Default Harvesting Cow Moose

Food for some serious thought ...

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Old 09-13-2018, 01:09 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is online now
 
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Good post.
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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Good reading, Thanks
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:44 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Ontario has been promoting this strategy and publishing this chart for decades illustrating the effects of choosing to shoot a bull vs a cow,at least since the early 90s anyhow when I lived there.
They also consider calves expendable,reasoning that calves are the most vulnerable part of the population and most susceptible to wolf predation and winter kill,and when a cow loses a calf to hunting she will breed again sooner,therefore they allow everybody to buy a calf tag.
ie;they have group applications or ďparty huntingĒ as they call it for the moose draw and allow up to 8 hunters per party.
Everybody buys a tag valid for calf at the time of application,then the party of 8 might for example get drawn for letís say 1 or 2 or more adult tags,anybody in the hunting party can fill the adult tags until they are all filled,and everybody is licensed to take a calf.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:05 AM
Bock Fever Bock Fever is offline
 
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The same applies to all species who populations require close monitoring. Alberta still feels the need to issue Ewe tags for some reason.
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:22 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default cow moose

From what I understand , the main reason Bio's allow cow/antlerless moose tags is areas where they are trying to save caribou. They want to lower overall moose population to lower feed for wolves, less litters of pups, then less caribou eaten for desert.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:27 AM
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It is pretty simple really! Same goes for whitetails etc.
Thanks for sharing.
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  #8  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:36 AM
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walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
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Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:50 AM
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Birchcraft Birchcraft is offline
 
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an incomplete idea that fits well for an outfitter, profiting off trophy hunting, that suggests any other type of hunting or hunting thats done by those who arent their clients, has negative impacts on the population.
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:52 AM
Xiph0id Xiph0id is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
I agree. There is also an inefficient ratio of bulls to cows as well whenthe number of cows is much higher. Now what that number is I don't know.

But I doubt 1 bull to 1000 cows would be good.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:57 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
I think itís merely to illustrate the difference in future offspring if you are given the choice between shooting a cow vs. a bull?
Again,Ontario has been promoting this model for decades,but I honestly donít remember if adult tags there are sex specific,Iím guessing they are not if the MNR feels compelled to include this chart with the moose draw facts booklet?
I can tell you however that NB for one and probably other provinces,moose tags are valid for either sex,in NB a moose is a moose is a moose,if you get drawn shoot whatever you want bull,cow,or calf.With NB tags so hard to draw average 15year wait and a short 5 day season(was 3 days until just a few years ago) many hunters will whack the first moose they can put x-hairs on as for many itís almost a once in a lifetime tag.
The reproduction model is merely informative for hunters in places like Alberta where tags are sex specific,itís not like we have a choice to shoot one or the other anyhow.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
I think itís merely to illustrate the difference in future offspring if you are given the choice between shooting a cow vs. a bull?
Again,Ontario has been promoting this model for decades,but I honestly donít remember if adult tags there are sex specific,Iím guessing they are not if the MNR feels compelled to include this chart with the moose draw facts booklet?
I can tell you however that NB for one and probably other provinces,moose tags are valid for either sex,in NB a moose is a moose is a moose,if you get drawn shoot whatever you want bull,cow,or calf.With NB tags so hard to draw average 15year wait and a short 5 day season(was 3 days until just a few years ago) many hunters will whack the first moose they can put x-hairs on as for many itís almost a once in a lifetime tag.
The reproduction model is merely informative for hunters in places like Alberta where tags are sex specific,itís not like we have a choice to shoot one or the other anyhow.
I sure hope not.

The chart is so simplistic in terms of the effects of hunting mortality in population management as to be useless, thus faulty to a point of being nothing but propaganda.

Promoting this kind of "educational information" does not benefit hunting in itself or wildlife management that includes hunting.


If hunters and wildlife agencies can't or won't grasp and proffer realistic education as to the reasons and effects of hunting induced mortality on specific populations then there will be great difficulty in maintaining hunting as a critical part of wildlife conservation.

Let's not be that special kid....
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:56 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception
I beg to differ.
Itís not faulty from its conception at all because realistically weíre not talking about an initial population of only one bull and one cow.
One bull can service several cows each fall and a cow that isnít bred in September will come into estrous every 3-4 weeks until December or until she ďhooks upĒ.So if you have 5 bulls and 5 cows letís say,you can shoot 3 or 4 bulls and all 5 cows are still gonna get bred and produce the same 5-10 calves next Spring,but every cow you shoot potentially takes 3 moose out of the herd with one bullet,plus all of the future offspring from the original cow and any female calves down the line.
Again,itís not meant to be a simplistic approach to moose management nor to insult your intelligence,but rather I believe itís to help encourage hunters in areas with either sex tags to harvest bulls vs. cows if given the choice.
....and letís face it,many hunters arenít the sharpest pencil in the box and a lil reminder that cows are the future canít hurt.
All itís saying is if you hunt in an either sex jurisdiction and have the opportunity to take a cow,maybe you might want hold out for a bull?Its playing on the conservation minded hunterís conscience to ďdo the right thingĒ for the future of moose hunting.
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Last edited by West O'5; 09-13-2018 at 11:03 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:33 PM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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[I]Are hunters on average really this slow,/I]

First consider how slow the average hunter is, and then realize that 50% of hunters are slower than that.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:49 PM
WLT WLT is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
Agreed!! A simple chart for simple minds...
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:53 PM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is online now
 
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I donít mind a conservation message being simplified for a poster.

Walking Buffalo, if you shot the bull. Odds are very good another bull breeds the cow, no?
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:27 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
As complicated as "management" may be, I don't believe the concept is fool's Gold. Basically simple, yes.
To put it another way, if we wanted to eradicate an entire Wildlife population probably the quickest way to do it would be to remove all the females as quickly as possible. Predators will do the rest. Why make it sound overly complicated ?
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2018, 04:07 PM
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Torkdiesel Torkdiesel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
If you shoot the bull at the top of the chart another will take its place and the cow will still have a calf. Put a (x 100) at the top to clear it up for the simple folks maybe lol

Of course it doesnít take other factors into account but without the calf being born in the first place, those factors donít come into play anyway
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:52 PM
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I see a chart shared by non regulated hunters that ALL non regulated hunters need to learn how to comprehend. Share it with the rest of Canadas non regulated hunters.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:34 PM
350 mag 350 mag is offline
 
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When a Province has to issue walleye tags.....it's pretty safe to assume that most sportsman in the province are just pigs ....and trying to educate them on conservation is a waste of time.....
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:05 PM
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Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 350 mag View Post
When a Province has to issue walleye tags.....it's pretty safe to assume that most sportsman in the province are just pigs ....and trying to educate them on conservation is a waste of time.....
No sense in being clueless if you canít prove eh?
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:59 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Who is this chart meant for?

The really really "slow" people?


With an initial population of one Bull and One cow, Shoot either and there are no baby moose.... This chart is faulty from its conception.


Are hunters on average really this slow, that this is how ridiculously simplified (and erroneous) a concept must be to "educate" ourselves?


I have hope that most hunters realize that this chart is Fool's gold.

Moose and all wildlife management is a bit more complicated than this.
Anywhere I've hunted ungulates the male/female ratio is nowhere even close to 1/1. Unless the bull population is severely depleted, the cows still get serviced, even when they are not bred the first time they often cycle again. Take a look at how many bulls the average beef farmer keeps on hand VS his cows... this is not rocket science.

In my opinion your argument is at least as stupid as however foolish you feel that chart is.
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