Asking for Permission

[flyon]

Wanted to hear some input/opinions...

This is my second year looking for big game animals and I have previously spent my time scouting and hunting crown land.

Last week I called a phone number for a property located in 312 to discuss the possibility of accessing their grazing lease... no answer. I left a msg explaining my intentions and received a call back a few hours later.

The lady returning my call seemed quite upset, and asked why I would bother her in the middle of the summer. Said she has to deal with people like me all the time and was getting sick of it. "more hunters than animals"

Long story short... Just wondering opinions on when is a good time to start contacting / approaching landowners and lease holders for the fall season?

I would have thought the earlier the better - but this phone called has left me kind of bummed out... Makes me think twice about driving the country and knocking on doors.

[Scott N]

While you never know how people might react, as you've found out, I think you're on the right track by trying to get permission now. If I was a landowner, I'd rather have people ask far before the season begins than having someone knock on the door on a Saturday morning during the season. Maybe I'm wrong as I'm not a landowner?

I do however think that you'll have better luck leaving a good impression with someone, after speaking with them in person. Good luck!

[HoytCRX32]

Very rude of her. If she doesn't like hunters following the rules and calling for permission she can quit leasing crown land...just IMHO

[madball]

Especially when asking for permission from Farmers who generally tend to be older, I always offer to to help with any odd jobs they may need assistance with around the farm. It has opened up hunting spots I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Farmers ALWAYS have stuff they need to get done they don't have time for. Last year I spent a day in August replacing nails with screws on a large shed roof and it got me sole hunting permission on half a section of bush.

[AlbertaBoy92]

I have personally found that due to the idiots and "road warriors" that seem to grow in population every year, land owners are more and more hesitant to give out permission. I have been turned down only a few times and it's always been because they have people in the family that hunt. Cold calls don't seem to work. I go a month before season, scout out areas I want to hunt and then go right to the door. This allows them to see what o look like, how I hold myself, and have an honest conversation face to face. It forms a relationship immediately. Also, nothing in life is free and while I have never offered money, a bottle of wine or an offer of meat I hope to acquire always is accepted, along with permission to hunt. This shows respect and my appreciation of those who gave permission to me permission to hunt.
Works for me, maybe give that a try. Hope this helped.

[The moose]

This lady was rude, flat out. However, I do understand her frustration. I myself dont like my phone ringing and talking to telemarketers and really this is not a massive amount different.

She was way offside reacting this way. Its a shame as I have done my fair share of door knocking in 212 and 312 and sometimes things are great and you can have a good conversation even though the response almost always is 2 things, too many hunters already or no hunting allowed. Far too often you are met with anger and frustration (212).I feel sometimes people don't understand that we don't want to be bothering them either but we have to ,to be able to do something we love.

She should learn to manage her lease better if she does not want phone calls. Get stipulations in place and have the contact method modified. I have no problem with a land leasee when they are following the guidelines set out.

I had a great lease land property with permission until people heavily abused it and now its gone.

[iliketrout]

I have been making my calls all through June and July and have not had any reaction like this, only one person said "You're on the ball this year". Of ~15 calls, I have been granted permission on 14 properties, with the 15th wavering on granting permission but ultimately saying no because of poachers last year.

I could understand the frustration of receiving numerous calls if I was a leaseholder in prime deer country but that's part of the deal when leasing crown land and members of the public want legal access. However, the leaseholder can set contact conditions if they don't want to be "harassed" in the middle of the summer. Personally I have seen contact conditions such as "For hunting access, only contact on weekdays between August 24-Nov 30 between 6:00 and 8:00 pm" or something along those lines.

Good on you for doing your homework early, and don't be discouraged. Land/lease owner contact is an important part of hunting, you're doing it right.

[The moose]

Hey trout ^
I would be willing to bet that 15 that said no is the same one i had access to previously but like he said. Poachers. I know the group that were responsible for the actions as we had met them a few times out there on the lease. Scumbags.

[iliketrout]

Originally Posted by The moose

Hey trout ^
I would be willing to bet that 15 that said no is the same one i had access to previously but like he said. Poachers. I know the group that were responsible for the actions as we had met them a few times out there on the lease. Scumbags.

It was actually private land south of Calgary where I got my rejection, but the disturbing thing is that I'm hearing it more and more often from all over...it's almost impossible to get waterfowl permission anywhere near Calgary unless you have a previous connection to the landowner.

[maverick]

Originally Posted by iliketrout

I have been making my calls all through June and July and have not had any reaction like this, only one person said "You're on the ball this year". Of ~15 calls, I have been granted permission on 14 properties, with the 15th wavering on granting permission but ultimately saying no because of poachers last year.

I could understand the frustration of receiving numerous calls if I was a leaseholder in prime deer country but that's part of the deal when leasing crown land and members of the public want legal access. However, the leaseholder can set contact conditions if they don't want to be "harassed" in the middle of the summer. Personally I have seen contact conditions such as "For hunting access, only contact on weekdays between August 24-Nov 30 between 6:00 and 8:00 pm" or something along those lines.

Good on you for doing your homework early, and don't be discouraged. Land/lease owner contact is an important part of hunting, you're doing it right.

This in itself is the problem, one person does not need access to 14 different properties to fill a deer tag. I live outside Calgary on the west side in 214 and yes I get lots of people calling and even more people poaching and trespassing. The poaching occurs before and after the season that's easy we call FW and they deal with it. The trespassing occurs during the season and we call FW and they deal with it. This is what happens when you live beside a city with over a million people living in it.

If people want to hunt close to home then give the landowner common courtesy to a face to face so we know who and how many are coming. In the same breath if you have permission on a couple of quarters then be satisfied you have access close to home and let a few other hunters also get the same opportunity and help the situation so you don't secure all of the legal access in an area and possibly contribute to all of the stupid acts that occur every fall in 212 and 214.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by flyon

Wanted to hear some input/opinions...

This is my second year looking for big game animals and I have previously spent my time scouting and hunting crown land.

Last week I called a phone number for a property located in 312 to discuss the possibility of accessing their grazing lease... no answer. I left a msg explaining my intentions and received a call back a few hours later.

The lady returning my call seemed quite upset, and asked why I would bother her in the middle of the summer. Said she has to deal with people like me all the time and was getting sick of it. "more hunters than animals"

Long story short... Just wondering opinions on when is a good time to start contacting / approaching landowners and lease holders for the fall season?

I would have thought the earlier the better - but this phone called has left me kind of bummed out... Makes me think twice about driving the country and knocking on doors.

don't let one rant set you back whether it was right or wrong. Grab a map. do it on foot. have all your credentials on a card to leave with them. Be yourself, nice, polite etc. Don't be long winded and get all about the land and animal dance, just feel it out and remember a handshake goes a long way.
Had a lady once wanting to slap me around, next year we ate homemade pie and a hot coffee after I got a nice mule deer. Thought we were all going to drive her land and shoot out of the windows like her grand kids do...

[403Bowhunter]

312 is tough.. My suggestion would be to avoid those grazing leases anyways...She's not too far off when she says there are more hunters than animals on those quarters lol

As far ask asking for permission, if you are rifle hunting I wouldn't bother any of the landowners yet if you don't know them first.. I'm likely to forget who asked me in july for permission in november... We are in 312 and when people ask for permission on our place we are always polite when we say no because our ranch is reserved for family members and close friends only. That being said, I'm always thankful for the hunters that do ask, no matter what time of year. 312 gets absolutely pounded by hunters come the fall - many of whom don't feel the need to ask permission and just drive right on in and start shooting. I'm sure our place isn't the only property this happens on, so a lot of landowners have been left with a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to unknown hunters.

My suggestion would just be to keep trying... Hopefully someone will give you access... As a general rule of thumb permission gets easier the further away you are willing to drive from city centers... I don't think its just city hunters causing the problems, it's just that the probability of poachers goes up with a higher density of hunters in one area.

Knock on doors, respect closed gates, be polite, and eventually you'll have success! And once you get permission, treat it well, and don't share it unless the landowner explicitly says you can.

Best of luck to you

[iliketrout]

Originally Posted by maverick

This in itself is the problem, one person does not need access to 14 different properties to fill a deer tag. I live outside Calgary on the west side in 214 and yes I get lots of people calling and even more people poaching and trespassing. The poaching occurs before and after the season that's easy we call FW and they deal with it. The trespassing occurs during the season and we call FW and they deal with it. This is what happens when you live beside a city with over a million people living in it.

If people want to hunt close to home then give the landowner common courtesy to a face to face so we know who and how many are coming. In the same breath if you have permission on a couple of quarters then be satisfied you have access close to home and let a few other hunters also get the same opportunity and help the situation so you don't secure all of the legal access in an area and possibly contribute to all of the stupid acts that occur every fall in 212 and 214.

I'm quite familiar with the area that I'm hunting but have never actually drawn a muley tag given the wait times. So before I put in for the draw I wanted to be sure I was going to have permission in the core area I wanted to hunt, which happens to be numerous sections owned by different landowners. We're hunting both muleys and whitetail and while the muleys are quite numerous the whitetail are more spreadout. I'm not going to limit myself to one or two places and be looking at muleys on the other side of a fence trying to find a number, especially when it's only a Wed-Sat season and when none of the permission is by any means exclusive.

This forum is hilarious, guys get called out when they put in for a tag in a zone they have never visited nor have any permission in, and then go asking for tips and contacts. I do it the opposite way and some still find fault.

It's too bad that you are bothered by getting calls from respectful and law abiding hunters. I guess that's the price you pay for being lucky enough to own land in a prime hunting area.

[Newf]

I've noticed It has been getting tougher over the last couple years to access property for waterfowl hunting. If I get turned down its usually a polite "no" and I thank the farmer for their time and continue on my way. But in the conversation with the landowners there has been more than one story of hunters abusing the privledge, getting stuck where they were told not to go, leaving garbage, shooting in unsafe directions, the list goes on. I've also had a couple people unleash a verbal bashing as I've knocked on the door to ask permission it's usually started by "you hunters...." And it goes from there. But that tells me they have had some bad experience from previous guys. I thank them for their time, apologize for interrupting and continue on my way. That isn't the norm though. Most folks are polite and friendly.

But I would like to stress to everybody that if you gain access to a place be very respectful of the property and owners! Treat it better than you would treat your own place! You may want to return again to hunt another time, and if you leave a pile of garbage or leave gates open or are irresponsible with your firearm you might not get access next time!!

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by madball

Especially when asking for permission from Farmers who generally tend to be older, I always offer to to help with any odd jobs they may need assistance with around the farm. It has opened up hunting spots I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Farmers ALWAYS have stuff they need to get done they don't have time for. Last year I spent a day in August replacing nails with screws on a large shed roof and it got me sole hunting permission on half a section of bush.

That is a great suggestion.
You want access to their land...offer something in return.
A days help at harvest or some such.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by iliketrout

I'm quite familiar with the area that I'm hunting but have never actually drawn a muley tag given the wait times. So before I put in for the draw I wanted to be sure I was going to have permission in the core area I wanted to hunt, which happens to be numerous sections owned by different landowners. We're hunting both muleys and whitetail and while the muleys are quite numerous the whitetail are more spreadout. I'm not going to limit myself to one or two places and be looking at muleys on the other side of a fence trying to find a number, especially when it's only a Wed-Sat season and when none of the permission is by any means exclusive.

This forum is hilarious, guys get called out when they put in for a tag in a zone they have never visited nor have any permission in, and then go asking for tips and contacts. I do it the opposite way and some still find fault.

It's too bad that you are bothered by getting calls from respectful and law abiding hunters. I guess that's the price you pay for being lucky enough to own land in a prime hunting area.

Nice reply to a land owner

[iliketrout]

Originally Posted by hal53

Nice reply to a land owner

Those are the facts...I prefer to know I'm going to have permission before burning a bunch of priority. I'm sure it gets old getting calls all the time, but of the 2 situations, I'd much rather be a landowner getting calls, than a hunter making calls.

I will also add that all of the landowners I spoke with were very receptive of the calls due to the havoc the Muleys are causing. If it was apparent that it was an issue, I would have rethought the approach...but when landowners are saying that I should call their neighbor and then give me the number, I figured my approach was acceptable.

[Pasc43]

According to the Recreational Agricultural Public Land act a leaseholder can refuse access if:

- Access is by anything other than foot
- Livestock are present in a fenced pasture
- A crop has not yet been harvested
- A fire ban has been issued by a municipal or provincial authority
- You intend to camp
- The proposed use is disallowed by the recreational management plan or a condition set by the government

The "I already have to many hunters" is not a valid reason and they cannot deny you access because of that.

[cdales]

Originally Posted by Pasc43

According to the Recreational Agricultural Public Land act a leaseholder can refuse access if:

- Access is by anything other than foot
- Livestock are present in a fenced pasture
- A crop has not yet been harvested
- A fire ban has been issued by a municipal or provincial authority
- You intend to camp
- The proposed use is disallowed by the recreational management plan or a condition set by the government

The "I already have to many hunters" is not a valid reason and they cannot deny you access because of that.

100% correct! I have had that answer from a leash older before also and I just said "sorry but too many hunters or people asking is not listed under access conditions so I would really like to access the lease, when would work best for you to allow me on the property."

After that they usually calm down and let you on but if they don't you can report it to SRD. If conditions are met it is your right to access that property and all lease holders know that, it just takes time talking with them and even meeting them in person. It's all our jobs to rebuild the trust and respect with lease holders and private property owners as over the years so many losers have ruined it for us. I own private property and we allow hunting with permission only so it is up to that individual to contact us. It's a 2 way street Forsure.

[wildwoods]

I personally gain access to as much land as possible. Nothing wrong with that. If there are other guys in there before me, we adjust. Nothing wrong with sewing up a ton of permission.

[maverick]

Originally Posted by iliketrout

I'm quite familiar with the area that I'm hunting but have never actually drawn a muley tag given the wait times. So before I put in for the draw I wanted to be sure I was going to have permission in the core area I wanted to hunt, which happens to be numerous sections owned by different landowners. We're hunting both muleys and whitetail and while the muleys are quite numerous the whitetail are more spreadout. I'm not going to limit myself to one or two places and be looking at muleys on the other side of a fence trying to find a number, especially when it's only a Wed-Sat season and when none of the permission is by any means exclusive.

This forum is hilarious, guys get called out when they put in for a tag in a zone they have never visited nor have any permission in, and then go asking for tips and contacts. I do it the opposite way and some still find fault.

It's too bad that you are bothered by getting calls from respectful and law abiding hunters. I guess that's the price you pay for being lucky enough to own land in a prime hunting area.

You seem to have missed the point entirely.

I know you don't need permission on 14 different parcels of land to fill your two tags in 212 and 214. All you are doing is blocking legal access to fellow Calgarian hunters. They have to drive through 212 and 214 to get out to crown hunting opportunities. Anyone who drives through 212 and 214 before the sun rises can see there is no shortage of deer in these zones and in most cases see deer that are much bigger then anything they will find on crown lands. I believe this is why I have fences cut every year and my gates broken.

Since telling you that you are probably contributing to the situation didn't work maybe showing you with pictures might help. I still have an outstanding trespassing case from last year on opening day when two elk were shot in my field.

This is what tracks going into your field from a wired shut gate look like on opening morning



This what it looks like when one dead elk is dragged from the left side of the front bumper



This is what it looks like to see a dead elk dragged from the right side of the front bumper at the same time



That's right two elk shot and dropped only about ten feet apart after they ran nearly a quarter mile into my field. As you can see there is only one set of tracks coming into the field and two different blood drag lines coming off the same vehicle. But they weren't trespassing they shot them legally and they ran side by side mortally wounded until they died exactly ten feet apart in my field. The hunters who shot them didn't feel they needed to phone me because they were just retrieving animals. If they didn't think they were doing anything wrong I wonder why they didn't even have time to wipe off their hands before they shut my gate



Then gutted them twenty feet from my gate in the neighbors field



I'm not trying to beat up on you I'm trying to let you know you may be contributing to the problem that is getting access in 212 and 214 harder to get for everyone from Calgary. Sorry it bothers you that when hunters phone me I make them come out and see me face to face before I decide if they can come and hunt on my land, it is my land so it is my rules.

And as for you telling me it is the price I have to pay for being lucky enough to live on land in a prime hunting area your wrong the price i paid was $1.2 million dollars per quarter section that I have worked my entire adult life to pay for. I hunt my family hunts and my kids hunt so I don't have a problem with people hunting I just want to know who they are and that they are there. I don't want to deal with open or cut gates or fence and then deal with cows going both ways and sorting it all out.

Good Luck with your hunting this fall.

[Sooner]

Hunting someone else's land is a tight rope. You call at a respectful time, state who you are and why your calling right up front and hope for the best.

Being a Crown Land hunter, calling and asking permission to a bunch of land/lease owners or their land guys last year for my southern elk access was a real nerve wracking experience . Thankfully, all were super nice and if i left a message, they called back. Most said call closer to your tag as the grass was so dry, they were waiting for the fall to see if the rains came and took the fire hazards away. So i did what they asked.

I like the face to face meet, what i have been told is call at lunch or just after supper. Get to the point and offer to meet. Try and call before each farm season kicks in like seeding, haying and then the harvest. Once they are out in the fields getting to their work, the last thing they want is their cell ringing.

I know it must get tiresome for land owners with all the calls but i know i sure appreciate the time land owners give us when we call.

[iliketrout]

Originally Posted by maverick

You seem to have missed the point entirely.

I know you don't need permission on 14 different parcels of land to fill your two tags in 212 and 214. All you are doing is blocking legal access to fellow Calgarian hunters. They have to drive through 212 and 214 to get out to crown hunting opportunities. Anyone who drives through 212 and 214 before the sun rises can see there is no shortage of deer in these zones and in most cases see deer that are much bigger then anything they will find on crown lands. I believe this is why I have fences cut every year and my gates broken.

Since telling you that you are probably contributing to the situation didn't work maybe showing you with pictures might help. I still have an outstanding trespassing case from last year on opening day when two elk were shot in my field.

This is what tracks going into your field from a wired shut gate look like on opening morning



This what it looks like when one dead elk is dragged from the left side of the front bumper



This is what it looks like to see a dead elk dragged from the right side of the front bumper at the same time



That's right two elk shot and dropped only about ten feet apart after they ran nearly a quarter mile into my field. As you can see there is only one set of tracks coming into the field and two different blood drag lines coming off the same vehicle. But they weren't trespassing they shot them legally and they ran side by side mortally wounded until they died exactly ten feet apart in my field. The hunters who shot them didn't feel they needed to phone me because they were just retrieving animals. If they didn't think they were doing anything wrong I wonder why they didn't even have time to wipe off their hands before they shut my gate



Then gutted them twenty feet from my gate in the neighbors field



I'm not trying to beat up on you I'm trying to let you know you may be contributing to the problem that is getting access in 212 and 214 harder to get for everyone from Calgary. Sorry it bothers you that when hunters phone me I make them come out and see me face to face before I decide if they can come and hunt on my land, it is my land so it is my rules.

And as for you telling me it is the price I have to pay for being lucky enough to live on land in a prime hunting area your wrong the price i paid was $1.2 million dollars per quarter section that I have worked my entire adult life to pay for. I hunt my family hunts and my kids hunt so I don't have a problem with people hunting I just want to know who they are and that they are there. I don't want to deal with open or cut gates or fence and then deal with cows going both ways and sorting it all out.

Good Luck with your hunting this fall.

Brutal. Absolutely brutal that you have to deal with poachers. That would be infuriating. But don't take it out on guys that follow the rules and do their homework. It wouldn't bother me to come out to your place and meet you if I was looking for permission. I've driven 2 hours each way for a 5 minute conversation and a handshake to introduce myself and let a landowner see my face. I am not part of a poaching problem.

I also did not say I had access to 14 properties in 212 and 214. I'm hunting south of Calgary, well away from the city where the pressure is not nearly as high. As I previously stated, none of my permission is exclusive, so I'm not contributing to locking down a bunch of land and denying others access. And to say that legal hunters contribute to poaching by securing permission doesn't make sense. If access is restricted to first-come/first serve or previous hunters, a guy needs to get out there earlier or go elsewhere. You can't hold legal hunters accountable for poaching because someone couldn't get legal access to a field and just had to shoot their doe. I can only control my actions...if I knocked on your door and you said no, I would carry on, and I would expect that other legal hunters would as well. A poacher is going to poach, regardless of how exclusive permission may be on a property.

Congratulations on your dream property. It's apparent that you worked hard for it and that it has tons of game for those that have permission. Best of luck to you this fall as well.

[redneck yote]

stop sign.jpg
Here is some new signs that I'm putting up next week . These are either going to get shot all to crap or going to help solve hunters asking for permission .

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by redneck yote

Attachment 123463
Here is some new signs that I'm putting up next week . These are either going to get shot all to crap or going to help solve hunters asking for permission .

So,if one was to approach you and volunteer their time to do work on your ranch for hunting permission and they are polite, respectful, then you would grant them permission?

[redneck yote]

No I allow hunters just not over the age of 19 .

[elkhunter11]

That is a great suggestion.
You want access to their land...offer something in return.
A days help at harvest or some such.

The only reason that I won't do that, is because it is illegal. I have helped property owners do chores on their property, but it was never a condition of being granted access to hunt.

[Pikebreath]

As a landowner, I really don't appreciate the calls now. I want to know when you will be on my land and not wonder if and when you will show up. My answer has always been call back in the fall, and tell me what day(s) you want to hunt and I will say yes or no then. We like to manage the access so that there is only one group at a time on a particular piece of ground. Makes for better hunting experience.

Trail cameras are another issue If I give you permission now, a lot of you will be wanting to put up trail cameras. They seem to be everywhere now, they really are an invasion of privacy. Nothing like getting off the tractor to take a leak and seeing a camera staring out at you after you are done.

One if the best ways to make contact with landowners is to go shed hunting during the winter and early spring. Every shed you find is potentially one less flat tire on a farm implement which are very costly and can really mess up a farmer's day. Show me the sheds you find,,, great conversation starter and way to get to know you.

Landowners in good hunting hunting country get a lot of requests for access as it is. We expect them in the fall, but it is kind of nice to have a hunter free off season.

[elkhunter11]

The thing about asking permission, is that you usually can't predict how the landowner will react. Sometimes the landowners appreciate you asking months in advance, and sometimes they don't want to be bothered in the off season. When I am looking for permission, I usually have a landowner map with me, and I know how to read it so that I can tell the landowner exactly which property that I want to access. If I have permission for other property in the area, I tell the landowner, and quite often landowners are more willing to grant access if other landowners know you and allow you access. If asking in person, don't drive up in a loud jacked up truck, or dressed in camo with your face painted. When asking permission, make it clear who will be hunting with you, the quickest way to upset a landowner is to ask for yourself, and then show up with several friends in multiple vehicles. Even worse is to have someone that hasn't asked show up, and tell the landowner that you gave him permission. If you are granted permission, be clear on whether you have permission for a day, r a week, or for the entire season. And if you get permission for the season, don't assume that includes the following seasons. I ask for permission every year, even if I have had permission for several years.

[jaywroe]

In the last few years I've abandoned the west country and all the heavy traffic. I've begun a slow and arduous process to first identify WHERE I wish to hunt and from WHOM I get permission. Instead of going and bothering land owners in the summer and fall, I begin talking to them AFTER hunting season and ask if I can assist them in reducing the coyote population for them. Once they see that I'm an ethical and responsible hunter they usually offer permission for big game with out being asked.
To me, I feel one should prove their worth first. I've got permission in a large amount of areas just barely 20min from my front door with big game population that one can only dream about.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk