Buy & Sell caution!!

[CaberTosser]

Just a heads-up reminder to those perusing the Buy & Sell to govern yourselves with all available precautions. Some recent new ads for a lot of tempting items have appeared recently accompanied by all of the usual cues: recent member, no trader rating, their location was a gag until it was added by a mod and then it turns out to be out of province. The other signal is that every item they’re posting is a high dollar tempting ‘halo’ item. When a seller needs their profile location to be added by a mod it throws off lots of warning signs.

I spotted the pattern days ago and the member has added more halo items since then. Unless you can deal face to face to help a new seller establish their trader rating, perhaps you don’t need to part with your money that badly, because being parted with your money is likely all that will happen.

When dealing with new members be sure to check their post history, check the other ads they may have up, ask for additional photos with something weird included to verify they have current possession. Google the photos they have posted to see if they’re simply copied from elsewhere. Speak with them on the phone. Check check check check check check check. And then confirm too.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Just a heads-up reminder to those perusing the Buy & Sell to govern yourselves with all available precautions. Some recent new ads for a lot of tempting items have appeared recently accompanied by all of the usual cues: recent member, no trader rating, their location was a gag until it was added by a mod and then it turns out to be out of province. The other signal is that every item they’re posting is a high dollar tempting ‘halo’ item. When a seller needs their profile location to be added by a mod it throws off lots of warning signs.

I spotted the pattern days ago and the member has added more halo items since then. Unless you can deal face to face to help a new seller establish their trader rating, perhaps you don’t need to part with your money that badly, because being parted with your money is likely all that will happen.

When dealing with new members be sure to check their post history, check the other ads they may have up, ask for additional photos with something weird included to verify they have current possession. Google the photos they have posted to see if they’re simply copied from elsewhere. Speak with them on the phone. Check check check check check check check. And then confirm too.

A great heads up for everybody, Thanks Caber for taking the time to post this!
Zip

[abenaki-warrior]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[35 whelen]

Thanks yes there was a few new posts I thought those seem kind of different

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[CaberTosser]

Looks like a shark in the water so far as I can guess but there is of course the possibility they're entirely legit thus my avoidance of naming names. If they are legit then of course they will be fine with a bit of scrutiny and people asking for various types of proof of posession because people have to be precautious. Heck, many of you might travel to their neck of the woods with business or have friends or relatives out there willing to run the errand to meet up if it's something you just gotta have.

[expedition]

Awesome advise. A few years back there was a guy selling a cz 455 17 hmr . when i inquired he would'nt give his town or city . only manitoba .

[wildbill]

Yup lots of grease balls out there this day and age, another thing to check is who’s giving the feedback/score, that can be just as telling, checking their posts, pretty easy to weed out the flakes, did a transaction with a guy a while back, no itrader rating but, had been lurking here for quite a while, took a chance but, I could just sense he was legit, 3/4 of mydeals have been face to face but then, again you could be walking into a trap. If it seems to good to be true may be, but then again I have scored some pretty sweet deals on here and that other site!

[antmai]

I can hear you....! Lol

[CaberTosser]

Yes, good point Wildbill. Some while ago there was a fraudster on the forum who had multiple accounts and was establishing themselves a trader rating by cross trader-rating their own various fake identities (I think that one was running three member profiles). A bit of research on the persons post history reveals lots, say if you check their trader rating also check out who left it for them unless its from a well-known regular, maybe that profile and others all link back to each other in a tidy circle or pentagon? If they've had so many trades why are they all with forum pseudonyms that no established member has ever traded with? If they all signed up at a similar time its also of interest, though it can also be weeks or months apart. Remember that some of these guys keep running numerous scams simultaneously because they make decent money with their stealing and they're difficult to catch. Mundane posts from newbies are also suspicious for other reasons, why sign up at all if all you're posting is utterly mundane crap? Older / established AO members won't know this but new members have to enter the scrambled letters that show up in one of those security question boxes in order to post (I don't know the magic # that those codes disappear at). It makes little sense to jump through that hoop to post "X2" or "Nice pics", examples of the brief and mundane posts that fraudsters tend to use to build their shallow & meaningless profiles up from. When they have many lines in the water, its difficult to set good bait.

[6.5 shooter]

Same same, Tried to make some deals with a couple of guys, asked for a couple photos with dates etc..... Magically there item all sold even after I told them I would take the items if they were legit....Like stated above check, check, check.

[Big Racks]

I get careless, and a bit too trustworthy after so many good transactions. I'm afraid I might have fallen into this trap in this case. I know who you're referring to, and I bit on the first sale, before the other items were up. Once again, too trustworthy, and only after seeing the other items pop up, all higher end-ish, did I start having misgivings and delve into post history. Uh-oh. Only been 2 days since EMT sent, but nothing shipped as of yet. Hope it works out, if not then expensive lesson learned.

Fingers crossed.

[coyotekiller]

Originally Posted by Zip

A great heads up for everybody, Thanks Caber for taking the time to post this!
Zip

x2

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Big Racks

I get careless, and a bit too trustworthy after so many good transactions. I'm afraid I might have fallen into this trap in this case. I know who you're referring to, and I bit on the first sale, before the other items were up. Once again, too trustworthy, and only after seeing the other items pop up, all higher end-ish, did I start having misgivings and delve into post history. Uh-oh. Only been 2 days since EMT sent, but nothing shipped as of yet. Hope it works out, if not then expensive lesson learned.

Fingers crossed.

Oh man that really would suck if you got scammed my friend! I hope not, good folks deserve better.....keep us posted!

[roper1]

Thanks for the heads-up, Caber!

[CaberTosser]

The shark is still in the water and now he's dropping high-end optics ads left right & centre. Recommending at least a time-out for the newbie until Big Racks receives his goods, and an obvious ban for when he does not.

Being as the guy is not posting photos, when one receives photos of the 'goods', take note of the background in each photo, if the same seller has the same stuff they're going to be taking the pics in the same location.

No matching background among numerous different items for sale? Dude is a fraud.

Can't take a new photo with a bunch of the advertised items all assembled together? Dude is a fraud.

Ask for extra photos aside from what he volunteers. Or don't deal with him.

In PM something was brought to my attention suggesting the possibility of Mr high-end goods being legit, but of course never, ever skip your due diligence. An assumption or bad feeling can be wrong, there's no harm in verifying.

[Anvil1010]

I wonder if a "voucher" would work some times. As in, for example, I see Caber and Twisted have been on here a looong time and I would not hesitate to buy something from them. If I was interested in a purchase from a new member but they were personally known by Caber or Twisted, (and would vouch for the new member) I would have no problem making a deal.

Sometime it is hard to make a physical relationship while living in a remote area though.

Just a thought.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Anvil1010

I wonder if a "voucher" would work some times. As in, for example, I see Caber and Twisted have been on here a looong time and I would not hesitate to buy something from them. If I was interested in a purchase from a new member but they were personally known by Caber or Twisted, (and would vouch for the new member) I would have no problem making a deal.

Sometime it is hard to make a physical relationship while living in a remote area though.

Just a thought.

One time I was interested in a purchase from a member new to AO who claimed to have an account under the same name on CGN, that account had a great trader rating. I messaged the fellow through CGN to cross-verify that he was the same person, it turned out he was legit and I dealt with confidence from there as he was over 110 positive ratings. Not only that but I was even able to verify with Catinthehat as he was among those who had left ratings. I had heard of people impersonating users from other sites though and was glad I went through with the verification if only for the peace of mind as the seller was in Ontario.

[Anvil1010]

I don't think I even have a trader rating on AO.
I do have one on CGN but I have only ever made one purchase on there.
It is tough in this day and age on who you can trust.
Growing up on the farm we never locked the house or the vehicles. Certainly can not do that anymore.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Anvil1010

I don't think I even have a trader rating on AO.
I do have one on CGN but I have only ever made one purchase on there.
It is tough in this day and age on who you can trust.
Growing up on the farm we never locked the house or the vehicles. Certainly can not do that anymore.

Now, with the advance of technology, criminals can rob you from the comfort of their crack den! No need to step out into the cold, rain or heat.

Here's another way they can steal from you. I prefer vehicles with real keys because of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR8RrmEizVg

[Anomaly85]

I saw one of the optics ads in questions, and did a google image search on one of the attached pictures. That picture was being used one another message board in the US. I always recommend doing a reverse image search if there's any pictures. Most of the these scammers just steal pictures from the web, so it's a pretty solid way to find them out quickly!

[Big Racks]

Just an update. My money is long gone unfortunately, and I'm guessing offshore. Still in email contact with LAUS, and it just gets better. English is obviously not the first language but that in and of itself isn't a big deal, I've had tons of dealings with awesome, honest ESL members. However, emails are often sent at odd hours of the day/night/early morning, and noticeably quiet when it's the middle of the night in Asia.

I've tried to keep him on the hook as long as possible, but haven't had time to get to the RCMP to report it yet, and now I'm off to Winnipeg for a week of meetings tomorrow. I'm not holding out hope of getting my money back, it's gone, however I'm thinking the RCMP will want to at least flag this as he is using a valid Ontario driver's license and a valid PAL as proof of ID, at least a picture of them. Opened on my phone it all looked good, when I got home from work and was able to open it larger on my computer the next morning it is obviously doctored ID, the name and address on the DL are added in as the text is a bit off, a bit askew, and not glared like the rest of the picture. PAL might also be altered, hard to tell. The authorities might want to at least alert the real Hernan Laus that his ID is being fraudulently used. FB shows a guy in Neppawa, MB.

I had searched for pics of the Cooper .240 Wby he had sent me, and hadn't found them on a Google image search so felt okay about that. In leading him along, I also asked for pics of the Benelli and the Cooper .223. He must have been grasping at that point, as the .223 pictures I was able to find on a sale thread on Gunbroker.

My last email was yesterday asking if it had been shipped yet (knowing full well it hadn't), and the reply I received during the night was "It's sent, please send copy of DL and PAL for my records". Haha, seriously?

So, be very wary is all I can say. I've had literally hundreds of perfect dealings on both AO and CGN over the years, and dealt with and met tons of fantastic folks, without a hiccup. Unfortunately, this had made me complacent and an easy target really. You start to think that everyone is just honest, and online that is a dangerous assumption, and a costly one. I've let this eat at me and keep me up at night for almost a week now, embarrassed and angry and still in a bit of disbelief. I had a chat with my wife this morning and explained it all to her, and am going to just chalk it up to an expensive learning experience and move on. Will see if I can get someone at the local RCMP tomorrow before I fly out, otherwise it'll have to wait another 10 days or so, but I will turn over anything I have as far as emails, pictures (ID and guns), etc... and hope they can do some good with it. I'm going to email my bank and Interac this afternoon from work and let them know. I still find it hard to believe that in this day and age of internet scams and fraud, the EMT is still not traceable they say. Seems odd to me, they are so eagerly attacking cyber crimes, as well as tracking money launderers, that it doesn't seem like a stretch to be able to find these accounts. The money has to be deposited somewhere, right?

Anyways, watch yourselves folks. These guys are getting smarter, just have to stay one step ahead of them and not get complacent, otherwise you end up an easy target. I figure if my fault in this was that I'm just too trusting of a person, I can live with that.

[CaberTosser]

Sorry to hear of your loss 'Racks. I'd add the word 'probable' but the likelihood of you getting anything in terms of a refund or goods is extremely low.

I encourage everyone to throw in their classifieds sleuthing suggestions so that we can build up a good fraud prevention checklist and try to prevent AO's buy & sell from becoming a popular target for thieves to be active in.

[Twisted Canuck]

That really sucks Racks, really sorry to hear you got scammed by this dirt bag. You would think good Karma was headed your way....for those who don't know Big Racks, all I can say is he is the kind of guy you can leave your wallet and phone with at the bar, and know it's going to be looked after....I hate those scheming thieving bastards, I really do!!!

[tirebob]

I have only bought one thing off the buy & sell. A freezer from some guy who apparently is well known around here. Went off without a hitch except that I think he gave me a bit too good of a deal...

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by tirebob

I have only bought one thing off the buy & sell. A freezer from some guy who apparently is well known around here. Went off without a hitch except that I think he gave me a bit too good of a deal...

Even when dealing face to face you gotta watch out for that guy

[doorout]

Thank for the head up

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by doorout

Thank for the head up

<------ My money is on this character being the same person named 'laus' who inspired this very thread and was banned for being a fraudster using photos stolen from Gunbroker. Look for some classifieds ads popping up under this name soon! Similar join dates, same broken English in their posts, and they even posted in some of the same threads under different user names. Ironically 'laus' had also posted in another thread about being careful due to fraudsters, just as 'doorout' is doing here right now.

Beat it thief! One score does not make this a good hunting ground for you!

[Crankbait]

if you are a bit more savvy than I on the puter, you can capture/drag a picture to google and search if it is legit or a stock photo lifted from somewhere. after dropping it in google, hit images and it will bring you to where it might have been lifted from, a magazine, another forum, etc.

[Crankbait]

also, aside from ratings, if someone has acted fraudulent, they should not only be banned (not blocked) but put into a list accessible to AO members who can view the language and names used in the posts, as a fraud reference. fraudsters typically have a signature manner to their posts.

[sgill808]

I think fraudsters should be dealt with in an AO manner... Tags should be issued.