Subsistence hunting- OFFICIAL thread

[Moderating Team]

Ok you will get your wish, one of those things, be careful what you ask for.
ZERO tolerance, while we may agree or disagree on the discussion at hand, any one racial slurs, derails and don't conform to forum rules will NOT be acceptable and you will be banned, no warnings, no infractions, just cut to the chase. This is the ONE and only thread, no new threads on native or substitence hunting to be opened and no warning.

Previousl threads will be locked, so you can copy and paste if you like. Rules are in place, so be forewarned

[albertabighorn]

Move the info from the last threads to here please, there was some very valid points made.

[TBark]

Why not just limit the native harvest ? Even numbers with licensed hunters.
500 licensed hunters for cows in Reduction hunt.
400 thus far is native estimate, 100 more then shut it down.

TBark

[357xp]

Well here is a thought, why not give each status have holder one tag per year per animal, in whatever wmu they live in.
You get one moose tag, u shoot one moose per year whenever you choose to.
Maybe have one for mom and pop and when children reach a certain age then they can get one too.
Make them pick up the tags and f&w just like everyone else. But once u get your animals, u are done till next year. Could even make them come to the office to register the kill too.

Now I relize that that might be impossible to monitor, but some kinda system should be in place.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by 357xp

Well here is a thought, why not give each status have holder one tag per year per animal, in whatever wmu they live in.
You get one moose tag, u shoot one moose per year whenever you choose to.
Maybe have one for mom and pop and when children reach a certain age then they can get one too.
Make them pick up the tags and f&w just like everyone else. But once u get your animals, u are done till next year. Could even make them come to the office to register the kill too.

Now I relize that that might be impossible to monitor, but some kinda system should be in place.

I like this idea the best. It also enables us to monitor the numbers of game more properly. Pretty tough to get an accurate numbers count based off air and hunter surveys when you gave a group that doesn't have to report anything.

Also I feel like they should have active participants in all discussions. One bio/ one elder. It's all about compromise.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by 357xp

Well here is a thought, why not give each status have holder one tag per year per animal, in whatever wmu they live in.
You get one moose tag, u shoot one moose per year whenever you choose to.
Maybe have one for mom and pop and when children reach a certain age then they can get one too.
Make them pick up the tags and f&w just like everyone else. But once u get your animals, u are done till next year. Could even make them come to the office to register the kill too.

Now I relize that that might be impossible to monitor, but some kinda system should be in place.

We are all Canadians! We are equal!

No special rights for anyone!

Equality!!!

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

We are all Canadians! We are equal!

No special rights for anyone!

Equality!!!

Sign me up !!
I support your wish.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

We are all Canadians! We are equal!

No special rights for anyone!

Equality!!!

George Orwell wrote in his book animal farm when the Pigs became leaders of the said farm,and I Quote from the book.

ORIGINAL LAW FOR ANIMALS

"All animals are equal"

This was then changed to read.

"All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"

The treaties are sacred cows and government is terrified of changing anything in them.,especially something as unimportant "TO THEM" as native hunting rights.

Lets face it Alberta has done a poor job of managing most big game in our province so far. I don't think they care much at all about the state of regulated hunting let alone Indian harvests.

[Full Curl Earl]

Well take care all, I joined a decent conversation about an important topic that the government muzzles, and the same is happening here now. Not sure why folks feel the need to intervene, what's the harm in giving people a place to speak openly...

[Talking moose]

Welcome to the forum!!!! It gets crazy round here, hope you stick around!

[gramps73]

I just don't know why there has to be 400+ animals killed.
2 questions
First question, How many people are they feeding?
Next question, are these natives just from Alberta?

[bucktaker]

So it seems to me the biggest problem that people seem to have regarding substinence hunting is the fact a trophy animal is shot. Why can it not just be made mandatory any antlered animal that has been shot for substitnence must have its horns/antlers be cut in half before removal of animal not just skull plate but actual horn or antler. If someone is hunting for food only this should not be a a problem. simple fix to a big problem

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Well take care all, I joined a decent conversation about an important topic that the government muzzles, and the same is happening here now. Not sure why folks feel the need to intervene, what's the harm in giving people a place to speak openly...

They are giving us a chance to discuss openly- minus the bs racism and derailment. Speak away.

Welcome new mod! I see you've come packing heat!

[ATE]

You cannot manage what is not measured. Absolutely the first and only realistic first step is some sort Alberta wide tag or regulation system, it can be free but we can say or do nothing until we have real accurate numbers of hunters and how much they actually take. Equality battles (this is what this is) are won with baby steps.
My family settled in Alberta in 1903. If you find me one living subsistence hunter that was here first I will lay down my rifle and give them my rights to everything I hunt.
If u have lived here for 3 years you should be Albertan with all rights, privileges, responsibilities and nothing more or less.

[TreeGuy]

Hi Joe.

I know you're swimming upstream here and will give you full props for doing a good job in debating your position.

I DO support substance hunting. No one should become a criminal for harvesting nature's bounty to feed their family.

Would all of this nonsense be mitigated though by registered kills and cut antlers/horns?

Just a thought.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Hi Joe.

I know you're swimming upstream here and will give you full props for doing a good job in debating your position.

I DO support substance hunting. No one should become a criminal for harvesting nature's bounty to feed their family.

Would all of this nonsense be mitigated though by registered kills and cut antlers/horns?

Just a thought.

Lol.....

Just picturing the faces if they had to cut up the antlers.

Yez Potty, you must cut those antlers into little pieces....


If Treaty hunters should be required to cut the horns/antlers then so too should licenced hunters. Fair is fair, right?....

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Lol.....

Just picturing the faces if they had to cut up the antlers.

Yez Potty, you must cut those antlers into little pieces....


If Treaty hunters should be required to cut the horns/antlers then so too should licenced hunters. Fair is fair, right?....

Difference I can openly and legally admit i'm not hunting for the meat, with the tag I purchased, in a regulated season!

so fair is fair your right! either all left or all right..but All together!

[Smokinyotes]

I'm born and bred Canadian. My grandmother was born in 1906 in Ontario, my grandfather in 1886. I just don't understand how in this day and age that some people are more Canadian than myself. So why am I a second class citizen when it comes to hunting rights?

Yes I know treaties were signed but they are outdated and need to be changed. I believe there should be one set of rules, one set of hunting regulations and every Albertan treated equal with the same benefits.

I know it's the natives right to hunt and it's part of their heritage. I have no problem with them following their traditional ways of life but you no what, in my 35 years of hunting I have never saw a Native hunting with a home made bow riding a paint Horse.

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I'm born and bred Canadian. My grandmother was born in 1906 in Ontario, my grandfather in 1886. I just don't understand how in this day and age that some people are more Canadian than myself. So why am I a second class citizen when it comes to hunting rights?

Yes I know treaties were signed but they are outdated and need to be changed. I believe there should be one set of rules, one set of hunting regulations and every Albertan treated equal with the same benefits.

I know it's the natives right to hunt and it's part of their heritage. I have no problem with them following their traditional ways of life but you no what, in my 35 years of hunting I have never saw a Native hunting with a home made bow riding a paint Horse.

First understand treaties before giving a bad opinion with a distasteful remark. Non Fn have not always had guns or trucks either, be fair.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

First understand treaties before giving a bad opinion with a distasteful remark. Non Fn have not always had guns or trucks either, be fair.

Then be fair open the base up to the rest of us residents ,fairs fair !

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

Then be fair open the base up to the rest of us residents ,fairs fair !

It is open, just apply for the tag and you will get your oppourtunity to exercise your Priveldge to help the government exterminate the elk herd in a way that generates revenue instead of costing

[Sooner]

So we know bulls are being taken and counted. Will Ersd put up the numbers of bulls taken by first nations before the June draw deadline so those who are waiting on a possible bull draw for this fall can make a educated choice on wether to apply or not before burning all priority on a limited bull hunt. Would be a real bummer to burn your priority on a chance to hunt for a nice bull on the base but find out it really wasn't worth it and should have applied outside the base. I would like to know how many bull were actually harvested. Is it ok to ask how many were hunted by out of province first nations? I think these are legitimate questions residents can ask about our resource.

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Hi Joe.

I know you're swimming upstream here and will give you full props for doing a good job in debating your position.

I DO support substance hunting. No one should become a criminal for harvesting nature's bounty to feed their family.

Would all of this nonsense be mitigated though by registered kills and cut antlers/horns?

Just a thought.

Thanks tree,

This has been a solution that has been brought up before, personally it doesn't matter to me on the horn cutting, if the concern is the animal should not be entered into a book. However the concern seems to be opportunity and not reward.

Biggest problem is that a select few people don't want the Indians to have anything, be it trophy, or full freezer, a nice truck, or an education. They see us as a burden without knowing what the facts are, even tho the facts have been placed before them numerous times. Just ignorance,

Another flaw is that to jurisdiction , the province has to stay out of it, we as First Nations will use our own info that is gathered and put it to use, we want to see the unborn have the same oupourtunity as we have today if not better.

If people want FNs to be like other Canadians and on the same page they have to give them the oupourtunity to do as such, not by inflicting wish laws over night, but by giving them fair oupourtunity to flourish. In all departments, fair healthcare, fair education, and decent living conditions. To this day the indian is regulated and prevented from getting ahead, it's not fair to the people on both side of treaty.

If you want all Canadians equal treat them as such, and be patient it won't happen over night

[TreeGuy]

Thanks for the reply, Joe.

Ain't nothin' wrong with full freezers for everyone....especially those in need. Most seem to not see the fact that there could be a dozen or more homes with empty freezers for every shooter present in theses incidences and I'm mostly ok with it.

However, it would certainly be nice to negotiate a way to do this without driving the cultural wedge that much deeper, thus causing so much animosity.

There has to be a better way.

[SmokinJoe]

I agree, but imposing laws on First Nations is not the answer, it's about collectively coming to a mutual agreement and living with it, until then the mutual agreement that was derived in 1876 has to stand. The only way this can ever be done is in faith of ensuring a hunting future for future generations in mind. People have to forget about trophys, or at least change their opinion on what a trophy is.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

I agree, but imposing laws on First Nations is not the answer, it's about collectively coming to a mutual agreement and living with it, until then the mutual agreement that was derived in 1876 has to stand. The only way this can ever be done is in faith of ensuring a hunting future for future generations in mind. People have to forget about trophys, or at least change their opinion on what a trophy is.

We know what trophies are and I am standing my ground for the younger generations to get the chance the same way we all want the fairness...that was you earlier comment was the word fair .. so I keep asking why is it ok for you to go do this and I cant ? or my son who has just as much right as your son ..you said fair so I am going with whats fair for you should be fair for me ..and you keep dancing all around that comment leading away with different comments. what I wanna know is why its ok for you and not for me ?

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

We know what trophies are and I am standing my ground for the younger generations to get the chance the same way we all want the fairness...that was you earlier comment was the word fair .. so I keep asking why is it ok for you to go do this and I cant ? or my son who has just as much right as your son ..you said fair so I am going with whats fair for you should be fair for me ..and you keep dancing all around that comment leading away with different comments. what I wanna know is why its ok for you and not for me ?

Because I have a right to hunt. You have a privedge to hunt. It's the law, it's laid out for all of us to co exist. We abide by the same law with different guideline based on our ancestry, but it's the same law. Therefore it's fair.

[SmokinJoe]

On the lighter side

Has anyone else noticed subsistence is spelt wrong in the title?

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Because I have a right to hunt. You have a privedge to hunt. It's the law, it's laid out for all of us to co exist. We abide by the same law with different guideline based on our ancestry, but it's the same law. Therefore it's fair.

this is 2015 maybe its time we look back at the past as history and heritage the way it should be ..you have no more of a right to hunt this land then I do be it 1876 or 2015 ..and this day and age its time to get off the high horse ..

We cant change the past we can change the future and for the better..Fair is fair for me for you and for every person out there.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Because I have a right to hunt. You have a privedge to hunt. It's the law, it's laid out for all of us to co exist. We abide by the same law with different guideline based on our ancestry, but it's the same law. Therefore it's fair.

You complain about discrimination against you, but are all for discrimination against white hunters.

So much for fairness.