Zimmerman not guitly

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I am aware that Trayvon and Zimmerman are the two subjects of this trial. My original post was meant as "I hope both sides can move on", it was a play on words if you will.

I understood what you meant, but how you worded it made it sound like one person when you put the victim's first name before the shooters last name.

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

George Zimmerman jury reached right verdict
-
Beth Kassab
Local News Columnist
The Orlando Sentinel
10:59 PM EDT, July 13, 2013
-

Like it or not, the jury got this one right.

Nobody wants to see two parents who already lost their teenage son also lose out on what they saw as justice.

As painful as it may be, though, acquitting George Zimmerman was the only verdict the jury could logically reach.

The state simply didn't prove second-degree murder. Or manslaughter.

As much as I don't like many of the choices Zimmerman made the night he killed Trayvon, the evidence presented at trial gave way to more than one reasonable doubt about Zimmerman's guilt.

The jury believed Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

A lot of people didn't see it that way.

They saw Zimmerman as the man who should be held accountable for tipping the first in a series of dominoes that led to 17-year-old Trayvon's death early last year.

Zimmerman made the wrong assumptions about Trayvon Martin, but he didn't break any laws by calling police to report Trayvon as suspicious.

He didn't use good judgment, but he didn't violate any laws by following Trayvon, either.

And you can say Zimmerman didn't need to stick a gun in his waistband when he decided to get in his truck and drive to Target that night, but he had a legal permit for a concealed firearm.

The state couldn't prove that Zimmerman started the fight between him and Trayvon.

But without a doubt it was Zimmerman who was losing. His nose was bloodied and broken. His head was cut and bruised.

Trayvon had barely a scratch, until the gunshot that killed him.

Some might have seen manslaughter as a compromise verdict.

But a manslaughter conviction would have been no compromise for George Zimmerman.

It's hard to imagine that, with a 29-year-old man's life hanging in the balance, the jury of six women could reach a verdict rooted in conciliation instead of the facts.

Verdicts aren't meant to placate.

We must accept that this jury reached a not-guilty verdict because jurors believed Zimmerman was in fear of his own life when he shot Trayvon.

Self-defense laws — "stand your ground" aside — are strong in Florida, where concealed-weapons permits nearly outnumber palm trees.

And there was plenty of evidence to show the fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon went down close to, if not exactly, as Zimmerman said it did.

As demonstrators gathered at the courthouse while the jury was deliberating inside, we were reminded how viscerally people reacted to this case.

Trayvon's death became a symbol for people who feel they are unfairly judged on appearance.

The case morphed into something much bigger than a fight between two people, with the worst of consequences. It became a modern assessment on equal justice and fairness in Florida's criminal-justice system.

Florida's record is marred when it comes to doling out justice. Men wrongfully convicted by prejudice or junk science have later been freed after serving long prison terms. That same bigotry played out in police departments that haven't always given crimes against black victims the attention they deserved.

But Zimmerman wasn't on trial for this state's historical and institutional wrongs.

He was charged with the second-degree murder of Trayvon Martin. And the proof for that charge just wasn't there.

But justice isn't about what I think. It's about what those six women on the jury decided.
-
bkassab@tribune.com or 407-420-5448
-


Copyright © 2013, Orlando Sentinel

A lot of the things stated hear do hold water with me,but there's a big stretch for me to under stand why this boy was killed,at 29 yrs GZ was at the prime of his life , I don't believe anything he said .

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by Fish along

A lot of the things stated hear do hold water with me,but there's a big stretch for me to under stand why this boy was killed,at 29 yrs GZ was at the prime of his life , I don't believe anything he said .

As far as I'm concerned he got away with murder

[Kanonfodder]

And I think he was acting in self defence

[brownbomber]

It must have been a terrible butt kicking to feel the need to bust a cap so to speak.

[Kanonfodder]

Broken nose, black eyes, broken orbital bone and lacerations on the back of the skull would indicate ya he's losing....ever had someone break your nose? Your eyes water, blood goes down your throat making it hard to breath ...now if witness reports are true have someone on top of you banging your head on the ground....would you fear for your life? I would....

Now as stated we only have one side of the story but the forensic evidence and expert testimony all supported a claim of self defence, the jury of his peers found him not guilty the whole stand your ground law was media hype it was NEVER used as a defence, self defence was

How many of you have said you would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ?

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Broken nose, black eyes, broken orbital bone and lacerations on the back of the skull would indicate ya he's losing....ever had someone break your nose? Your eyes water, blood goes down your throat making it hard to breath ...now if witness reports are true have someone on top of you banging your head on the ground....would you fear for your life? I would....

Not likely, I would be thinking "oh crap this is gonna hurt" then I would likely be ko'd.
Yup broken nose, broken cheekbone. Many other injuries including a stomping from 4 energetic fellows, never feared for my life. Frantically thought of ways to stop it. Then again I was never strapped and didn't worry about somebody taking it from me, but that just me. We are all entitled to .02

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Broken nose, black eyes, broken orbital bone and lacerations on the back of the skull would indicate ya he's losing....ever had someone break your nose? Your eyes water, blood goes down your throat making it hard to breath ...now if witness reports are true have someone on top of you banging your head on the ground....would you fear for your life? I would....

Now as stated we only have one side of the story but the forensic evidence and expert testimony all supported a claim of self defence, the jury of his peers found him not guilty the whole stand your ground law was media hype it was NEVER used as a defence, self defence was

How many of you have said you would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ?

I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6, but I also would not have put myself or Martin in that position.

Here we have one person carried by 6, and one judged by 12. Martin may not have been the best of kids, but he was a kid, and that particular evening had done nothing wrong, and he got carried by 6 for it.

Zimmerman put himself in the position where he had to be judged by 12, and he has to live for the rest of his life knowing he had someone carried by 6.

I don't believe Zimmerman got away with murder, but he did get away with a crime. He should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police as he was told by 911. Had he done that, both would be better off today. I suspect Zimmerman and his family will be looking over their shoulder for a very long time, and I also suspect many other white (or near white) people will suffer for the harm that others feel Martin got. That is the problem with perceived race crimes in some parts of the world. I am happy I am from Canada, as this is a phenomenon that is not overly common here. However it is changing, and that is a shame.

The trial was the right thing, and the verdict was what was due based on the evidence and the laws. I hope Florida learns the lesson, and changes a few laws so less Martins are killed, and less Zimmermans get let off.

[Kanonfodder]

Agreed with the most part but the 911 operator said "He (Zimmerman) didn't need to follow Martin" not that he shouldn't or couldn't. Zimmerman was under no obligation to take the dispatchers advice.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Agreed with the most part but the 911 operator said "He (Zimmerman) didn't need to follow Martin" not that he shouldn't or couldn't. Zimmerman was under no obligation to take the dispatchers advice.

And look what happened because he did not take the advice. He killed an innocent kid.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

Agreed with the most part but the 911 operator said "He (Zimmerman) didn't need to follow Martin" not that he shouldn't or couldn't. Zimmerman was under no obligation to take the dispatchers advice.

That proved to be a poor decision maybe not illegal but poor.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6, but I also would not have put myself or Martin in that position.

Here we have one person carried by 6, and one judged by 12. Martin may not have been the best of kids, but he was a kid, and that particular evening had done nothing wrong, and he got carried by 6 for it.

Zimmerman put himself in the position where he had to be judged by 12, and he has to live for the rest of his life knowing he had someone carried by 6.

I don't believe Zimmerman got away with murder, but he did get away with a crime. He should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police as he was told by 911. Had he done that, both would be better off today. I suspect Zimmerman and his family will be looking over their shoulder for a very long time, and I also suspect many other white (or near white) people will suffer for the harm that others feel Martin got. That is the problem with perceived race crimes in some parts of the world. I am happy I am from Canada, as this is a phenomenon that is not overly common here. However it is changing, and that is a shame.

The trial was the right thing, and the verdict was what was due based on the evidence and the laws. I hope Florida learns the lesson, and changes a few laws so less Martins are killed, and less Zimmermans get let off.

I think his conscience will punish him enough. Not to mention the massive amounts of public attention this has received. I've got some reports recently about violence springing up at some of the protests.

[jethunter]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

And look what happened because he did not take the advice. He killed an innocent kid.

The "innocent kid" was laying a beating on Zimmerman, you know. Which kind of defeats the use of "innocent" and "kid" as an accurate description.

"Innocent kid" is how the media originally portrayed Trayvon by showing pictures from when he was 12 years old..... even the media eventually acknowledged that Trayvon was not a kid or innocent.

People die from making bad decisions every day. Neither of these guys are guiltless and either one of them could have made better decisions and prevented the tragedy, but they didn't. This shouldn't be about race, it should be about poor choices and stupidity.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by jethunter

The "innocent kid" was laying a beating on Zimmerman, you know. Which kind of defeats the use of "innocent" and "kid" as an accurate description.

"Innocent kid" is how the media originally portrayed Trayvon by showing pictures from when he was 12 years old..... even the media eventually acknowledged that Trayvon was not a kid or innocent.

People die from making bad decisions every day. Neither of these guys are guiltless and either one of them could have made better decisions and prevented the tragedy, but they didn't. This shouldn't be about race, it should be about poor choices and stupidity.

What happened first Zimmerman left the truck or Martin gave him a beating ?.

Chronologically I mean.

[nof60]

So before this goes further lets get the facts straight.

1) TM did not live in the complex, his dads girlfriend did.
2) TM was no angel. he had been kicked out of school for drugs, vandelism and being caught with burglary tools and womens jewelry in his backpack.
3) TM had recieved MMA training and had a history of violence
4) The community had suffered a tonne of break ins. Racial profiling may be immoral but sadly it is usually grounded on facts.
5) GZ had been selected to chair the neighborhood watch by his neighbors.
6) GZ had called the police many times in the past.
7) GZ was studying with hopes of becoming a judge. At the time of the shooting, he was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice
8) GZ was not racist. Neither on this call to the police nor on any of the others had he identified race until asked."From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[69] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[83][84][85] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[86] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[2]"


9) TM told his friend on the phone "a crazy ass cracker is following me". She told him to go to the home of his mothers girlfriend and he did not take her advice.
10) GZ lost sight of TM after leaving the truck and was walking back after looking at street signs to see what corner he was on
11) GZ had been told by local authorities to carry a gun as there was a real dangerous pair of dogs running loose in the area
12) TM attacked GZ coming from the side and behind
13) GZ screamed help at least 14 times while being beaten by TM (verified by 911 recordings)
14) TM said to GZ "You gonna die tonight mother #$%^^&"
15)


My questions are:
1)Why was there even a trial
2) Why did the media paint TM as a saint and GZ as the devil
3) Why did the media use 4 yr old pics of TM that made him look angelic?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by nof60

My questions are:
1)Why was there even a trial
2) Why did the media paint TM as a saint and GZ as the devil
3) Why did the media use 4 yr old pics of TM that made him look angelic?

Divide and Conquer.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Not likely, I would be thinking "oh crap this is gonna hurt" then I would likely be ko'd.
Yup broken nose, broken cheekbone. Many other injuries including a stomping from 4 energetic fellows, never feared for my life. Frantically thought of ways to stop it. Then again I was never strapped and didn't worry about somebody taking it from me, but that just me. We are all entitled to .02

If you were being stomped by four guys and didn't fear that one of those stomps could end your life, than it's not hard to see why you don't believe GZ feared for his.

I think most people though, would have a fear of great bodily harm or death in a situation of being sucker punched and then ground and pounded, let along gang stomped. Herb Dean isn't there to save your sorry butt.. There aren't paramedics standing ringside..

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Fish along

A lot of the things stated hear do hold water with me,but there's a big stretch for me to under stand why this boy was killed,at 29 yrs GZ was at the prime of his life , I don't believe anything he said .

With all the evidence and testimony, if you don't believe anything that GZ said, then your opinion must be purely emotional, no? I mean, the chances that he's lying about everything in this situation have got to be almost zero.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6, but I also would not have put myself or Martin in that position.

Here we have one person carried by 6, and one judged by 12. Martin may not have been the best of kids, but he was a kid, and that particular evening had done nothing wrong, and he got carried by 6 for it.

Zimmerman put himself in the position where he had to be judged by 12, and he has to live for the rest of his life knowing he had someone carried by 6.

I don't believe Zimmerman got away with murder, but he did get away with a crime. He should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police as he was told by 911. Had he done that, both would be better off today. I suspect Zimmerman and his family will be looking over their shoulder for a very long time, and I also suspect many other white (or near white) people will suffer for the harm that others feel Martin got. That is the problem with perceived race crimes in some parts of the world. I am happy I am from Canada, as this is a phenomenon that is not overly common here. However it is changing, and that is a shame.

The trial was the right thing, and the verdict was what was due based on the evidence and the laws. I hope Florida learns the lesson, and changes a few laws so less Martins are killed, and less Zimmermans get let off.

Even if GZ made a mistake by following, does that mean he forfeits his right to defend his life from reasonable perceived danger?

You say Martin did nothing wrong. That really seems like a stretch given what we know about the case. I don't doubt that you would have handled the situation differently than GZ, but would you have pounded on someone for following you?

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by nof60

So before this goes further lets get the facts straight.

1) TM did not live in the complex, his dads girlfriend did.
2) TM was no angel. he had been kicked out of school for drugs, vandelism and being caught with burglary tools and womens jewelry in his backpack.
3) TM had recieved MMA training and had a history of violence
4) The community had suffered a tonne of break ins. Racial profiling may be immoral but sadly it is usually grounded on facts.
5) GZ had been selected to chair the neighborhood watch by his neighbors.
6) GZ had called the police many times in the past.
7) GZ was studying with hopes of becoming a judge. At the time of the shooting, he was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice
8) GZ was not racist. Neither on this call to the police nor on any of the others had he identified race until asked."From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[69] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[83][84][85] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[86] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[2]"


9) TM told his friend on the phone "a crazy ass cracker is following me". She told him to go to the home of his mothers girlfriend and he did not take her advice.
10) GZ lost sight of TM after leaving the truck and was walking back after looking at street signs to see what corner he was on
11) GZ had been told by local authorities to carry a gun as there was a real dangerous pair of dogs running loose in the area
12) TM attacked GZ coming from the side and behind
13) GZ screamed help at least 14 times while being beaten by TM (verified by 911 recordings)
14) TM said to GZ "You gonna die tonight mother #$%^^&"
15)


My questions are:
1)Why was there even a trial
2) Why did the media paint TM as a saint and GZ as the devil
3) Why did the media use 4 yr old pics of TM that made him look angelic?

X2!

TM being 17 is irrelevant. Also at 16,17,18 years old i remember having the most aggression i have ever had and thought I was indestructable, it makes sense that TM turned on him and tried to whoop GZ azz. If I saw someone i didnt recognize in my community and they looked suspicipous with a hood concealing their identity and there had been a string of B&E in the area recently, dang rights I would profile the person who look suspicious. The media made this out to be about race which blows my mind, GZ was a Mexican!

tragic end for boh parties involved either way.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by ali#1

That proved to be a poor decision maybe not illegal but poor.

Only in hindsight. Had he stayed in the vehicle and some woman was beaten in the same way he was in a botched home invasion then the decision to stay in the vehicle would be viewed in hindsight as a poor decision.

There are no backsies, and after the fact, back seat drivers, trying to make political hay are ............

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by ali#1

What happened first Zimmerman left the truck or Martin gave him a beating ?.

Chronologically I mean.

So it is perfectly acceptable to try to beat the life out of someone because they left the truck? Hardly the action of an innocent victim.

[Kurt505]

Sadly this has become the perfect excuse to riot.

Keep the stereo type alive!

As was said on that youtube video, if you don't want to be treated as a thug, or looked at like a thug, DON'T ACT LIKE A THUG!

If your eye hurts every time you stick your finger in it, stop poking your finger in it and the pain will go away soon enough. I think the white people of the United States have proven that racism is no longer socially accepted, they have a black president! It's an excuse that is getting old, it's no longer the cracker who is responsible for keeping racism alive and well, I believe it's the "oh poor me" attitude that's keeping it going.

To see the rioting is starting up sickens me, if Treyvon were any other race, I guarantee this whole thing would be over and nobody would dispute the verdict. Zimmerman isn't even a cracker, but the race card works better if he is, so that's what we'll make him out to be, am I wrong?

[Winch101]

In Texas ,Illinois ,new York this would not have seen the light
Of day...The lefties,antis are behind getting this on the docket .

Sad really ....

[greylynx]

Just to mention political hay, Barkey Obama stated that he would be pround to have Martin as his son.

Now, the attorney general of the U.S. is going to nail Zimmerman by becoming some sort of a prosecutor.

There are riots in Oakland.

This race baiting business must be darn profitable.

[hillbillyreefer]

In an interview on CBC this morning one of the jurors claims race was never mentioned in the deliberations.

Good ol racist Al Sharpton is whipping up the riot talk. When are the blacks going to realize their "leaders" are a big part of the problem and kick the douche bags to the curb.


In breaking news "Stevie Wonder refuses to play Florida because of stand your ground laws"! Oh my god no Stevie don't do that.

My question is how would he know if he was in Florida or Georgia?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

So it is perfectly acceptable to try to beat the life out of someone because they left the truck? Hardly the action of an innocent victim.

Who says he didn't start it and got a beating he deserved ?

You think it's acceptable to follow someone for no reason provoke them and then claim self defence when you lose a fight ?.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Winch101

In Texas ,Illinois ,new York this would not have seen the light
Of day...The lefties,antis are behind getting this on the docket .

Sad really ....

Lots of lefties in Florida apparently when was the last democrat governor ?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Only in hindsight. Had he stayed in the vehicle and some woman was beaten in the same way he was in a botched home invasion then the decision to stay in the vehicle would be viewed in hindsight as a poor decision.

There are no backsies, and after the fact, back seat drivers, trying to make political hay are ............

Which woman are you talking about the one he was delivering skittles to ?.

You act as is Zimmerman is some kind of law enforcement, he's not and has no right to follow anybody, in the neighbourhood watch manual that he knows about it says observe and report not follow and harass. He went against the police and his own rules and apparently a kid jumped out from behind an imaginary tree to hit him buy there are no witnesses. And he can't account for 2 minutes of his time.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by nof60

So before this goes further lets get the facts straight.

1) TM did not live in the complex, his dads girlfriend did.
2) TM was no angel. he had been kicked out of school for drugs, vandelism and being caught with burglary tools and womens jewelry in his backpack.
3) TM had recieved MMA training and had a history of violence
4) The community had suffered a tonne of break ins. Racial profiling may be immoral but sadly it is usually grounded on facts.
5) GZ had been selected to chair the neighborhood watch by his neighbors.
6) GZ had called the police many times in the past.
7) GZ was studying with hopes of becoming a judge. At the time of the shooting, he was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice
8) GZ was not racist. Neither on this call to the police nor on any of the others had he identified race until asked."From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[69] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[83][84][85] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[86] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[2]"


9) TM told his friend on the phone "a crazy ass cracker is following me". She told him to go to the home of his mothers girlfriend and he did not take her advice.
10) GZ lost sight of TM after leaving the truck and was walking back after looking at street signs to see what corner he was on
11) GZ had been told by local authorities to carry a gun as there was a real dangerous pair of dogs running loose in the area
12) TM attacked GZ coming from the side and behind
13) GZ screamed help at least 14 times while being beaten by TM (verified by 911 recordings)
14) TM said to GZ "You gonna die tonight mother #$%^^&"
15)


My questions are:
1)Why was there even a trial
2) Why did the media paint TM as a saint and GZ as the devil
3) Why did the media use 4 yr old pics of TM that made him look angelic?

Does George Zimmerman have knowledge of trayvon or his past when he was following him ?.

If its not acceptable for the police to racially profile anybody why is it ok for anybody else?.