2014 Archery Only Draws

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Tabers Best

Interesting thought. Why would the ABA have lobbied for a longer season in recent years if they knew we were already close to or exceding 15% ?

If it goes seperate draws with only applying for one then I want to be able to hunt from September first in the south all the way till the end of rifle season with my bow.

Exceeding 15% was a bs excuse used to limit resident bowhunting opportunity while allowing outfitters less early season trophy hunting competition. It had nothing to do with harvest as antlerless harvest/tags were unaffected by a draw.

The numbers presented by srd showing 15% archery harvest were garbage. They didn't include outfitter or landowner harvest which are significant in the denominator.

This was one of the largest injustices ever perpetrated on the resident hunters in this province.... So far.

And the ABA didn't even question the false numbers. Whether they want everything on draw or not doesn't matter. These groups at the Agmag need to go through the numbers, as they are the only people that are able to comment.

Brutal!

[thrude1]

until someone else other than APOS get the backing of the provincial policy makers into their back pockets,we the average Albertans will have to be happy with whatever APOS leaves behind for us to argue over. its time for riflemen, archers and yes even the much maligned( not a bow;-)) cross-bowhunters to band TOGETHER with a common voice to secure out hunting opportunities now and for our future generations of resident hunters. Write your mla, minister of enviro and minister of justice if you want change

[ab_bighorn]

I'm very disappointed in the muley draw. My son turned 12 this season, and we were looking forward to heading afield together like we've done for years before he could hunt. This year, we were forced to focus on high-pressure areas in 212 and limited opportunities for WT and elk in other WMUs where I've cultivated permission for 25 years. I really can't see why any archery only draw wasn't tried before bow hunters were lumped together with rifle hunters (yes I do both). In zones where a muley buck tag takes 6+ years to draw with a rifle, it would have been nice. Despite what others believe, I've seem more mule deer taken on open day for rifle than any other day or season with a bow. Bowhunters can and are successful, but let's not dismiss the number of rifle hunters that fill their tags.

[Tabers Best]

It is like they made it an rifle only season in many zones this year.

This should have been stated a year ago so archers had some sort of option.

[ab_bighorn]

Agreed. I would have started applying 5 years ago for my son and I to hunt together with our bows. Sure, I take some deer, but let's face it; anything I shoot with a bow a rifle hunter could take with no problem. Putting everyone in the same bucket is ridiculous. I love to hunt with a rifle and do so every year, but I only pull the trigger about once in 3 or 4 years. My choice, but since most of us don't really need the meat, I think we should consider what opportunities exist for every hunter and our kids.

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

Winner!!

Residency should mean living here as well.

I know a fair number of people that work here but live out of province that hunt every year in Alberta.

Agree 100%

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Tabers Best

It is like they made it an rifle only season in many zones this year.

This should have been stated a year ago so archers had some sort of option.

The combined draw is intended to be for the 2013/14 and 2014/15 seasons only. This was decided as the draw system is being contracted out to a new provider starting in 2015/16.

As I mentioned earlier, the ABA is lobbying for a separate Archery Draw Code and season to start in 2015. This will help satisfy the ABA executive's desire to reduce the number of bowhunters.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

I would agree 100% if the draw was archery only on the draws we have to put in now and compete against overwhelming amounts of rifle hunters for the same tag...

However if that means we cant get elk or mule deer across the counter in what we have left for muley already without a draw.... than that sucks....big time..



JMHO
Neil

[bearbait]

why would you say the aba wants to limit bow hunting opportunity? the fact is there are way more bow hunters out there these days and the success rates are up.. you can say what you want but with 2 month seasons there is a lot of time to tag out.
what they should try is a 2-3 week season like it is in some zones. that will take the success rates down.

as for the cross bow argument just have a seprate season after bow for cross bows. same idea make it a 2 week season.. then everyone is happy. (well heres wishing everyones happy)

the aba is out to support the bow hunters. its sad that we bash our organization like this.
JMO
Rob

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bearbait

why would you say the aba wants to limit bow hunting opportunity? the fact is there are way more bow hunters out there these days and the success rates are up.. you can say what you want but with 2 month seasons there is a lot of time to tag out.
what they should try is a 2-3 week season like it is in some zones. that will take the success rates down.

as for the cross bow argument just have a seprate season after bow for cross bows. same idea make it a 2 week season.. then everyone is happy. (well heres wishing everyones happy)

the aba is out to support the bow hunters. its sad that we bash our organization like this.
JMO
Rob

Assuming this is directed to me. I didn't say that the ABA exec. wants to limit bowhunting opportunity rather that I have the impression that the ABA exec would like to have fewer bowhunters competing for the 15% allocation.


Below is part of my previous post which includes a quote right from the ABA president.
His comment left me almost speechless, which is a good thing when talking to Brent.


-----------
"I have the impression that the ABA executive desired to have these seasons placed into the draw system followed by the ABA's Archery Draw regime resolution to have exclusive draw codes for archery and general weapon seasons where hunters must choose one or the other.

And the kicker....
The ABA president recently told me that in his opinion, "there are too many bowhunters".


Adding one plus one, I can only conclude that the ABA executive has chosen the path to go with SRD's flow to institute more Archery draw seasons and segregate these seasons in a fashion that will exclude many of those hunters who use both a bow and rifle."
--------------





I want to make this clear. Brent is veraciously passionate about hunting and is one of the most open individuals that attends the AGMAG meetings. His dedication and effort to improve hunting in Alberta while including and informing the public is exceptional. Above all, I strongly commend his willingness to discuss matters even when differing opinions surface. I know that Brent keeps an eye on this forum and will respond here if he desires.

[bearbait]

I think that Brent was referring to success rates but I wasen't there. The fact is the reason we lost opportunity is there are alot more bow hunters out there. So im thinking that's what Brent was referring to. In My opinion the zones that went draw are mostly the long archery season zones so they should have just cut the season down!

[Deer Hunter]

There a lot more hunters out there regardless of whether they bowhunt or rifle hunt.

I believe that the increases in the number of bowhunters is a direct result of rifle hunters wanting to spend more time in the field & lengthening rile draw wait times. I also believe that the ABA executive is mostly made of hunters that do not rifle hunt.

What percentage of bow hunters also rifle hunt? What percentage of the ABA membership rifle hunt?
This group that do both, I believe, is not being represented and the proof is in the current situation with archery antlered mule deer on draw in some wmus.

It plays into the long range plan for the ABA, providing better, exclusive archery, opportunity. At the sacrifice of guys who enjoy both.

Harvest data, 15% policy is all a bunch of bull****. We all know how well srd follows policy when it comes to past 10% MAXIMUM outfitter allocations.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

There a lot more hunters out there regardless of whether they bowhunt or rifle hunt.

I believe that the increases in the number of bowhunters is a direct result of rifle hunters wanting to spend more time in the field & lengthening rile draw wait times. I also believe that the ABA executive is mostly made of hunters that do not rifle hunt.

What percentage of bow hunters also rifle hunt? What percentage of the ABA membership rifle hunt?
This group that do both, I believe, is not being represented and the proof is in the current situation with archery antlered mule deer on draw in some wmus.

It plays into the long range plan for the ABA, providing better, exclusive archery, opportunity. At the sacrifice of guys who enjoy both.

Harvest data, 15% policy is all a bunch of bull****. We all know how well srd follows policy when it comes to past 10% MAXIMUM outfitter allocations.

Actually you are pretty much off base. The membership would pretty much be a hodge podge of everything you have mentioned (purists, traditionals, and guys that just like to get out).

They are the only voice of the bowhunter because somewhere along the way a group of guys decided to make a commitment to the sport and gave their time to something that made a difference for hunting in this province. I'm bowhunter and am not above picking up the rifle every once and awhile. I do prefer to use a bow.

As I sit here thinking about the ABA members I know, admittedly, there are a few die hards. However, many of them will pick up a rifle or muzzleloader once and awhile. The archery draw will get the archers out of the general draw pool and into their own.

Hunters need to pick their weapon and when their season is over it's time to step aside an let the next guy have his turn. If the ABA is proposing an archery only draw I back them 100%. The idea of giving a guy a draw and then letting him have two seasons (90+ days) to fill it is not going to increase the opportunity you are constantly (irritatingly) espousing. An archery and a rifle draw is going to be more tags and more opportunity.

It really doesn't matter what the executive's preference is. They are elected to represent and from what I can see so far they are representing the bowhunters fairly well.

[Tabers Best]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Actually you are pretty much off base. The membership would pretty much be a hodge podge of everything you have mentioned (purists, traditionals, and guys that just like to get out).

They are the only voice of the bowhunter because somewhere along the way a group of guys decided to make a commitment to the sport and gave their time to something that made a difference for hunting in this province. I'm bowhunter and am not above picking up the rifle every once and awhile. I do prefer to use a bow.

As I sit here thinking about the ABA members I know, admittedly, there are a few die hards. However, many of them will pick up a rifle or muzzleloader once and awhile. The archery draw will get the archers out of the general draw pool and into their own.

Hunters need to pick their weapon and when their season is over it's time to step aside an let the next guy have his turn. If the ABA is proposing an archery only draw I back them 100%. The idea of giving a guy a draw and then letting him have two seasons (90+ days) to fill it is
not going to increase the opportunity you are constantly (irritatingly) espousing. An archery and a rifle draw is going to be more tags and more opportunity.

It really doesn't matter what the executive's preference is. They are elected to represent and from what I can see so far they are representing the bowhunters fairly well.

You seem up on things. So i will pose my question to you. Why would we have pushed for a longer season two years ago, if we knew we were in jeapordy of losing the general tag?

Why would we not have had a seperate archery draw in 2013. Instead of just making it a rifle only draw. I also looked and rifle draws were increased from 2012. In some zones by 250%.

I thank you in advance.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Actually you are pretty much off base...
If you say so.
Hunters need to pick their weapon and when their season is over it's time to step aside an let the next guy have his turn....
Is this what the ABA says or is this your opinion? Is this truly what it is coming to?

If the ABA is proposing an archery only draw I back them 100%.... The idea of giving a guy a draw and then letting him have two seasons (90+ days) to fill it is not going to increase the opportunity you are constantly (irritatingly) espousing....
I'm irritated you better believe it. Pretty soon me and future generations will be sitting at home with the reduction of resident... wait for it.... opportunity

An archery and a rifle draw is going to be more tags and more opportunity.

Not when compared to the way it was in previous years prior to the archery antlered mule deer draw. There was nothing wrong with the way it was until someone at SRD put together a bunch of bogus harvest numbers and no AGMAG group bothered to question them

.

I am member. But you probably already knew that.

Edit:
Attached is the ESRD proposal with harvest numbers in table 3 that are really hard to get your head around.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bearbait

I think that Brent was referring to success rates but I wasen't there. The fact is the reason we lost opportunity is there are alot more bow hunters out there. So im thinking that's what Brent was referring to. In My opinion the zones that went draw are mostly the long archery season zones so they should have just cut the season down!

The comment was not referring to success rates. Brent's comment to me was direct, that in his opinion there are too many bow hunters now. In addition, Brent explained that he feels there will be no opportunity to have the bow hunting 15% allocation increased, thus there is a need to find other ways for bow hunters to have regular access to sought after tags. Put this statement in conjunction with the ABA's proposed Archery draw regime, I can only interpret this to mean the ABA is looking for ways to reduce the number of bow hunters.

It would be great to have Brent correct my conclusion if it is wrong.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

I am member. But you probably already knew that.

Edit:
Attached is the ESRD proposal with harvest numbers in table 3 that are really hard to get your head around.

I find it interesting that the document says the ABA does not support this change....

4. Anticipated Public Reaction:
This proposed change has undergone extensive provincial public consultation over the past two years. The issue has been raised by a variety of stakeholders and the Wildlife Management Branch first publically announced it would be examining this issue at the 2011 AFGA Conference. Since that conference, this issue has been discussed provincially with stakeholders at the Alberta Game Management Advisory Group (AGMAG). Support for this recommended change has not been unanimous. Primarily, the Alberta Bowhunters Association (ABA) does not support this recommended change.

[waterfowler1969]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I find it interesting that the document says the ABA does not support this change....

4. Anticipated Public Reaction:
This proposed change has undergone extensive provincial public consultation over the past two years. The issue has been raised by a variety of stakeholders and the Wildlife Management Branch first publically announced it would be examining this issue at the 2011 AFGA Conference. Since that conference, this issue has been discussed provincially with stakeholders at the Alberta Game Management Advisory Group (AGMAG). Support for this recommended change has not been unanimous. Primarily, the Alberta Bowhunters Association (ABA) does not support this recommended change.

They are all for a separate archery draw not the 0% archery and 100% rifle tags that happened last year and will be the same this upcoming season. Cant wait to see all mule deer on draw across the board. Now we should eliminate all landowner tags and change non resident tags.