Ukraine Breached dam

[Howard Hutchinson]

Most have heard about this terrible act over in the Ukraine. I cannot imagine the fallout all the way down stream and surrounding area. Catastrophic to say the least.
There are some engineering minds here so I wonder, how do you go about rebuilding the dam? Have to somehow lessen the flow to begin with I'm sure. I am interested to hear how this one might be overcome and as quickly as possible

[fishnguy]

The water will recede in a few days. Destruction will remain. Both, Ukrainians and Russians, are saying it is beyond repair. It was built back in Stalin days (well, started under Stalin and finished under Khrushchev). Maybe new ways can be found and maybe it wouldn’t built nowadays in the first place. Sure is tragic though.

[Howard Hutchinson]

Right, being on a river it will indeed recede won't it. Can you tell I'm feeling silly now...Sheessh.
As you mentioned though the destruction will remain for a long time.

[Grizzly Adams1]

There's a theory out there the Russians want to create a nuclear accident around the power plant supplied by cooling water from the reservoir. Like the blown up gas pipelines, the sky is the limit when it comes to conjecture. Didn't take the Germans long to repair the dams in the Ruhr Valley hit by the Dambusters,

https://theconversation.com/kakhovka...r-plans-207182

Grizz

[CBintheNorth]

They can move an awful lot of water with the pumps available nowadays. Huge, diesel driven beasts ( sorry, solar won't cut it here ).
They do river diversions all the time for pipeline crossings and such.
They just start damming the river and pumping it out Upstream of the diversion, and then pump it back in a couple hundred meters downstream. Then they work in between on dry ground.

[Pioneer2]

Had a dam blown to slow the German advance drowning between 60-100,000 Ukrainians.I doubt he lost a nights sleep ,sociopath he was.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Had a dam blown to slow the German advance drowning between 60-100,000 Ukrainians.I doubt he lost a nights sleep ,sociopath he was.

Putin isn't much different, might not win in the Ukraine, but it won't be worth living there when he's done.

Grizz

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Putin isn't much different, might not win in the Ukraine, but it won't be worth living there when he's done.

Grizz

Actually, post war Ukraine will be the same economic miracle that post war Germany was, or the industrialization of China created.

Imagine the materials and labour that will be needed to rebuild bridges, roads, train systems, not to mention whole Cities.

This is the economic driver of the next 30 years for any Country that supplies raw materials like Cement, steel, copper, glass, and industrial equipment, not to mention Labour.

Whether Russia will foot the bill on War Reparations is unknown, but at the end of it, you will have a modern Country with the latest technology.

As for blowing the dam, it sure is suspect that the Russians did it. You see, Tanks sink pretty fast in miles of mud, and it will take all summer for that mess to dry out. Blowing a dam is how the Ukrainians stopped the Russians north of Kiev at the start of the war, forcing the Russian armour onto the raised road beds where they were slowly picked off until the retreat.

Drewski

[lmtada]

I believe it will be a stalemate. Neither will win. UKraine will be cannon fodder from NATO and Russia weapons. Who will pay. Likely not Russia, China, etc.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

There's a theory out there the Russians want to create a nuclear accident around the power plant supplied by cooling water from the reservoir. Like the blown up gas pipelines, the sky is the limit when it comes to conjecture. Didn't take the Germans long to repair the dams in the Ruhr Valley hit by the Dambusters,

https://theconversation.com/kakhovka...r-plans-207182

Grizz

The Ukrainians shelled the dam a number of times. Including with HIMARS. It’s documented. They were going (and I believe attempted to, otherwise why would you send HIMARS?) to take it down back in… October? The plan was to take out the Russian pontoon bridges that way because Russians were pretty good resupplying themselves during the Kherson offensive. There was an article in NYT, I believe, in December-ish talking about the first offensive and interviews with a number of the Ukrainian top brass, where one straight up says that they were going to take this very dam out in order to destroy the already mentioned bridges because they wanted to kill all the Russians on the right side of the river (like 25,000 of them or something like that? Possibly more? I don’t remember the numbers anymore).

The linked article is pretty weak, which is somewhat surprising (can’t say I read much of their stuff, but with some exceptions they have some good material). To their first point, 5 of the 6 reactors are already in cold shut down, according to Grossi, the chief man at the IAEA. The 6th reactor is cooled from a separate pool that is upstream of the dam and that’s the one that needs to be kept intact, again, according to Grossi. The Chernobyl scenario is currently impossible at Zaporozhia because the reactors are in shutdown. Still, any accident occurring would be extremely tragic with significant consequences. The expert should know this. To their second point, most of the transport infrastructure such as bridges, were destroyed by the Ukrainians in the beginning of the war or when they were retreating. They also destroyed the only bridge (well two, including the rail) over Dnipro in the south during their last offensive. They also damaged or destroyed a number of pipelines. All documented. The expert should know this. Also, he states that the Russians went further than previous historical military campaigns in regards to critical infrastructure. This is simply not true. One should not go back later than the NATO campaign at Yugoslavia. The expert is talking rubbish. The only significant dam that was taken down prior was at Irpin and was done by the Ukrainians in order to stop the Russians. To the third point, I can’t speak much because I am not a military strategist, but from I read, the views vary. Some say what the dudes in the article say; others say otherwise. I know that it will clearly wash away the minefields (and other defences) the Russians set up along the river, making another tragedy already occurring and waiting to happen. I also think that crossing the river en mass in order to attack would probably be suicidal, so it may change the Ukrainian strategy for the offensive somewhat, but I do not think all that much. And again, the Russians cannot defend what the Ukrainians cannot attack. Once things start drying up (if they will at all), I am assuming more mines will be thrown that way, which is unfortunate. The main plan is probably to attack towards Melitopol from Orikhiv direction with some distraction from Kherson river side, which now isn’t possible.

There have been satellite photos posted by NYT reporter and, I think, Washington Post as well, that show the dam may have started coming apart (thanks to the previous shelling) days before it finally let go. So this is another theory of what happened.

Here is a nice read of the consequences (7 months later) of the dam that was blown up at Irpin in the first days of the war: Ukraine flooded a village to save Kyiv. Residents are racing to clean up before winter

Edit: Of course, I can provide legit links to everything written above (except for my opinion), but I doubt anything changes anything, so I will not bother spending my time unless asked.

[Cement Bench]

thanks fishinguy

when the public gets all the facts the decision is easier to make as to,who or whom is at fault

although reasons may be missing

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by Cement Bench

thanks fishinguy

when the public gets all the facts the decision is easier to make as to,who or whom is at fault

although reasons may be missing

Winner get to write history so its usually the loser fault !!

[ctd]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

The Ukrainians shelled the dam a number of times. Including with HIMARS. It’s documented. They were going (and I believe attempted to, otherwise why would you send HIMARS?) to take it down back in… October? The plan was to take out the Russian pontoon bridges that way because Russians were pretty good resupplying themselves during the Kherson offensive. There was an article in NYT, I believe, in December-ish talking about the first offensive and interviews with a number of the Ukrainian top brass, where one straight up says that they were going to take this very dam out in order to destroy the already mentioned bridges because they wanted to kill all the Russians on the right side of the river (like 25,000 of them or something like that? Possibly more? I don’t remember the numbers anymore).

The linked article is pretty weak, which is somewhat surprising (can’t say I read much of their stuff, but with some exceptions they have some good material). To their first point, 5 of the 6 reactors are already in cold shut down, according to Grossi, the chief man at the IAEA. The 6th reactor is cooled from a separate pool that is upstream of the dam and that’s the one that needs to be kept intact, again, according to Grossi. The Chernobyl scenario is currently impossible at Zaporozhia because the reactors are in shutdown. Still, any accident occurring would be extremely tragic with significant consequences. The expert should know this. To their second point, most of the transport infrastructure such as bridges, were destroyed by the Ukrainians in the beginning of the war or when they were retreating. They also destroyed the only bridge (well two, including the rail) over Dnipro in the south during their last offensive. They also damaged or destroyed a number of pipelines. All documented. The expert should know this. Also, he states that the Russians went further than previous historical military campaigns in regards to critical infrastructure. This is simply not true. One should not go back later than the NATO campaign at Yugoslavia. The expert is talking rubbish. The only significant dam that was taken down prior was at Irpin and was done by the Ukrainians in order to stop the Russians. To the third point, I can’t speak much because I am not a military strategist, but from I read, the views vary. Some say what the dudes in the article say; others say otherwise. I know that it will clearly wash away the minefields (and other defences) the Russians set up along the river, making another tragedy already occurring and waiting to happen. I also think that crossing the river en mass in order to attack would probably be suicidal, so it may change the Ukrainian strategy for the offensive somewhat, but I do not think all that much. And again, the Russians cannot defend what the Ukrainians cannot attack. Once things start drying up (if they will at all), I am assuming more mines will be thrown that way, which is unfortunate. The main plan is probably to attack towards Melitopol from Orikhiv direction with some distraction from Kherson river side, which now isn’t possible.

There have been satellite photos posted by NYT reporter and, I think, Washington Post as well, that show the dam may have started coming apart (thanks to the previous shelling) days before it finally let go. So this is another theory of what happened.

Here is a nice read of the consequences (7 months later) of the dam that was blown up at Irpin in the first days of the war: Ukraine flooded a village to save Kyiv. Residents are racing to clean up before winter

Edit: Of course, I can provide legit links to everything written above (except for my opinion), but I doubt anything changes anything, so I will not bother spending my time unless asked.

Are there any links to the NYT and WP. just tried looking and did not find anything.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by ctd

Are there any links to the NYT and WP. just tried looking and did not find anything.

Are you referring to the dam damage? Funny enough, I can’t find the WP article either, but the NYT reporter post is here: https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1665938248722444289. The article was much better because it showed sort of a time lapse video/gif of satellites images since March, if I recall correctly, and you can see how things are evolving and something is going on. It also had a bit of discussion (not sure if that part makes it necessarily better?). WP had other images than Maxar, but I do not remember which firm. Now thinking maybe it wasn’t WP? Not sure. I’ll post if I find it - someone certainly must have reposted it elsewhere by now, but the amount of links the search returns is hard to sort through since everyone is talking about it and I don’t have the name of the article.

Basically, the dam was hit numerous times with various munitions for the past 8-9 or so months. It has been overloaded and overflowing for the past month at least. Today I read a few articles on the subject where some experts state that it couldn't have happened “naturally”, particularly because it was built to withstand a nuclear blast. I don’t buy that. Some say that it likely couldn’t have happened because dams usually start to let go on either of the banks sides. That again doesn’t make sense because in this case it would clearly be dependent on where the damage was and the extent of it. The fact that there was some damage is undeniable and I doubt there were any (at least thorough) inspections, though Russians talked about the dam vulnerability for months. Others say that this is likely what happened and there was likely no shelling or explosion otherwise. I really don’t know and I doubt anyone does at this point. The sources I mostly trust (mainly western military analysts) indicate that it is too early to assign any blame as there is zero evidence supporting either of the claims and because it puts both sides of the conflict at equally disadvantaged positions. I don’t necessarily buy the latter part though (while realizing they have way deeper understanding of war strategy and tactics than I). Ukrainians keep saying that the Russians brought the dam down due to fear of the offensive. That makes zero sense because there was little threat coming from the river. Russians, however, did have significant fortifications there and now they are all gone. Here is what ISW says on the subject:

The flooding has destroyed many Russian first line field fortifications that the Russian military intended to use to defend against Ukrainian attacks. Rapid flooding has likely forced Russian personnel and military equipment in Russian main concentration points in Oleshky and Hola Prystan to withdraw. Russian forces had previously used these positions to shell Kherson City and other settlements on the west (right bank) of Kherson. Ukrainian Southern Operational Command Spokesperson Nataliya Humenyuk stated that Russian forces relocated their personnel and military equipment from five to 15 kilometers from the flood zone, which places Russian forces out of artillery range of some settlements on the west (right bank) of the Dnipro River they had been attacking. The flood also destroyed Russian minefields along the coast, with footage showing mines exploding in the flood water. Kherson Oblast Occupation Head Vladimir Saldo, however, claimed that the destruction of the KHPP is beneficial to the Russian defenses because it will complicate Ukrainian advances across the river. Saldo’s assessment of the situation ignores the loss of Russia’s first line of prepared fortifications. The amount of Russian heavy equipment lost in the first 24 hours of flooding is also unclear.

The good news is that the Russians reporting that water is receding and the peak of the flooding seems to have passed. The interesting thing they mentioned is the speed of the current increased tenfold in some places. I can imagine. That and the amount of water will either wash away or bury any mines and other fortifications. Frankly, it’ll probably change the entire geography of some places.

Another thing, while we are at it. Earlier today (or yesterday?) the ammonia pipeline running from Russia to Odessa was destroyed. Thankfully, it was not actively running ammonia (there was still a solid spill though). It was, however, on a top of the list for the Russians to resume its operation as part of the grain deal. Now it’s gone. Of course, Ukraine says that Russia shelled the pipeline and Russia says it was Ukraine that sabotaged it. Who do you believe? Lol. Same as with Nord Stream, Russians destroying their own extremely expensive infrastructure that brought them (and probably would again in the future) tremendous profits, lol. Probably most read the latest news on who is the likely culprit behind it.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Are you referring to the dam damage? Funny enough, I can’t find the WP article either, but the NYT reporter post is here: https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1665938248722444289. The article was much better because it showed sort of a time lapse video/gif of satellites images since March, if I recall correctly, and you can see how things are evolving and something is going on. It also had a bit of discussion (not sure if that part makes it necessarily better?). WP had other images than Maxar, but I do not remember which firm. Now thinking maybe it wasn’t WP? Not sure. I’ll post if I find it - someone certainly must have reposted it elsewhere by now, but the amount of links the search returns is hard to sort through since everyone is talking about it and I don’t have the name of the article.

Basically, the dam was hit numerous times with various munitions for the past 8-9 or so months. It has been overloaded and overflowing for the past month at least. Today I read a few articles on the subject where some experts state that it couldn't have happened “naturally”, particularly because it was built to withstand a nuclear blast. I don’t buy that. Some say that it likely couldn’t have happened because dams usually start to let go on either of the banks sides. That again doesn’t make sense because in this case it would clearly be dependent on where the damage was and the extent of it. The fact that there was some damage is undeniable and I doubt there were any (at least thorough) inspections, though Russians talked about the dam vulnerability for months. Others say that this is likely what happened and there was likely no shelling or explosion otherwise. I really don’t know and I doubt anyone does at this point. The sources I mostly trust (mainly western military analysts) indicate that it is too early to assign any blame as there is zero evidence supporting either of the claims and because it puts both sides of the conflict at equally disadvantaged positions. I don’t necessarily buy the latter part though (while realizing they have way deeper understanding of war strategy and tactics than I). Ukrainians keep saying that the Russians brought the dam down due to fear of the offensive. That makes zero sense because there was little threat coming from the river. Russians, however, did have significant fortifications there and now they are all gone. Here is what ISW says on the subject:

The flooding has destroyed many Russian first line field fortifications that the Russian military intended to use to defend against Ukrainian attacks. Rapid flooding has likely forced Russian personnel and military equipment in Russian main concentration points in Oleshky and Hola Prystan to withdraw. Russian forces had previously used these positions to shell Kherson City and other settlements on the west (right bank) of Kherson. Ukrainian Southern Operational Command Spokesperson Nataliya Humenyuk stated that Russian forces relocated their personnel and military equipment from five to 15 kilometers from the flood zone, which places Russian forces out of artillery range of some settlements on the west (right bank) of the Dnipro River they had been attacking. The flood also destroyed Russian minefields along the coast, with footage showing mines exploding in the flood water. Kherson Oblast Occupation Head Vladimir Saldo, however, claimed that the destruction of the KHPP is beneficial to the Russian defenses because it will complicate Ukrainian advances across the river. Saldo’s assessment of the situation ignores the loss of Russia’s first line of prepared fortifications. The amount of Russian heavy equipment lost in the first 24 hours of flooding is also unclear.

The good news is that the Russians reporting that water is receding and the peak of the flooding seems to have passed. The interesting thing they mentioned is the speed of the current increased tenfold in some places. I can imagine. That and the amount of water will either wash away or bury any mines and other fortifications. Frankly, it’ll probably change the entire geography of some places.

Another thing, while we are at it. Earlier today (or yesterday?) the ammonia pipeline running from Russia to Odessa was destroyed. Thankfully, it was not actively running ammonia (there was still a solid spill though). It was, however, on a top of the list for the Russians to resume its operation as part of the grain deal. Now it’s gone. Of course, Ukraine says that Russia shelled the pipeline and Russia says it was Ukraine that sabotaged it. Who do you believe? Lol. Same as with Nord Stream, Russians destroying their own extremely expensive infrastructure that brought them (and probably would again in the future) tremendous profits, lol. Probably most read the latest news on who is the likely culprit behind it.

It is about time Ukraine attacks critical infrastructure in russia. Sorry but all bets are off when you invade a country. The fact that Ukraine has not done more damage across the border is amazing. I do think bringing the war to russian military/ strategic trargets is both within the law of war and within the law of "special military operations"
as for the Nordstream line, again it doesn't really matter if it was russia or Ukraine who bombed it. both sides have a good reason to of done the damage. Now russia does not have a chance to ship gas through it to Europe.

Ukraine has been pretty good at avoiding collateral damage. Using more responsible usages of Artillery and other rockets and missiles.
As opposed to russia who literally levels city blocks to get their way.

I hope the Ukraine military and or their saboteur groups continue making havoc through out russian territories. Keep them thinking of the next place. Let the russian people know there is a war on and they were the physical aggressors.

Make no qualms about it. Putin is a USSR patriot who wants to see a great battle between the titans before he dies. The battle he is going to see is the turmoil and civil war he will create in his own country.

[58thecat]

Sad that war resorts to these kinds of acts but there is a lot worse happening too

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Sad that war resorts to these kinds of acts but there is a lot worse happening too

By most standards, the Ukrainian war is very civilized, if there is such a thing. Even the casualty rates are not that high, just have to look back at the Balkan wars of not so long ago for a comparison.

Grizz

[32-40win]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Actually, post war Ukraine will be the same economic miracle that post war Germany was, or the industrialization of China created.

Imagine the materials and labour that will be needed to rebuild bridges, roads, train systems, not to mention whole Cities.

This is the economic driver of the next 30 years for any Country that supplies raw materials like Cement, steel, copper, glass, and industrial equipment, not to mention Labour.

Whether Russia will foot the bill on War Reparations is unknown, but at the end of it, you will have a modern Country with the latest technology.

As for blowing the dam, it sure is suspect that the Russians did it. You see, Tanks sink pretty fast in miles of mud, and it will take all summer for that mess to dry out. Blowing a dam is how the Ukrainians stopped the Russians north of Kiev at the start of the war, forcing the Russian armour onto the raised road beds where they were slowly picked off until the retreat.

Drewski

Which is part of what Putin didn't want, a successfully industrialized Ukraine that could out compete Russia for European money. He thought he had a nice stranglehold on EU with their energy reliance, and the Ukes were going to screw that up, along with the arms the Ukes were developing that were competing with Russian stuff. And the Euromaidan stuff that would cut into his cut from Ukraine corruption.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by ctd

It is about time Ukraine attacks critical infrastructure in russia. Sorry but all bets are off when you invade a country. The fact that Ukraine has not done more damage across the border is amazing. I do think bringing the war to russian military/ strategic trargets is both within the law of war and within the law of "special military operations"
as for the Nordstream line, again it doesn't really matter if it was russia or Ukraine who bombed it. both sides have a good reason to of done the damage. Now russia does not have a chance to ship gas through it to Europe.

Ukraine has been pretty good at avoiding collateral damage. Using more responsible usages of Artillery and other rockets and missiles.
As opposed to russia who literally levels city blocks to get their way.

I hope the Ukraine military and or their saboteur groups continue making havoc through out russian territories. Keep them thinking of the next place. Let the russian people know there is a war on and they were the physical aggressors.

Make no qualms about it. Putin is a USSR patriot who wants to see a great battle between the titans before he dies. The battle he is going to see is the turmoil and civil war he will create in his own country.

They are not doing more because they do not have the means of doing so. Any western supplied equipment is forbidden to be used on the Russian territory. They obviously have none of their own. What they have, they use.

Russia had zero interest in destroying their own infrastructure and extremely expensive one at that when we are talking about the Nord Stream.

You also noticed that they have been good at avoiding collateral damage and Russians are the only ones levelling buildings and such. How often do you see the news of the Ukrainian forces shelling Russian positions? Positions that are also in the buildings and such. They are somewhat better at sending the missiles at the right places because we are literally providing them with intel, correct the coordinates, and let them use our guiding systems for the weapons we supplied them with. All they are doing in those cases are pushing the button. This is literally what is happening (there are a few good articles on the subject). They are begging for more artillery shells to do more damage, but those are in short supply, so they have to do with they have. Podolyak stated a couple of months or so ago that they are within their right to level Donbas and Zaporozhie because it is their land. Common, there are two sides fighting here and this is the war of artillery and attrition; you can’t put all the “levelling” on just the one side, obviously.

Anyway, I’ll (probably) bow out of this discussion because there is no point. Things will be over when they are over and hopefully that comes sooner than later.

[Drewski Canuck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

By most standards, the Ukrainian war is very civilized, if there is such a thing. Even the casualty rates are not that high, just have to look back at the Balkan wars of not so long ago for a comparison.

Grizz

The Balkans War was pretty horrific, and shows how long these people can hold a grudge.

There was a bridge that had a genocide event of 100 Christians being beheaded in the 1800's (Dnrina Bridge). Even though it was 100 years earlier, that was the justification for beheading 100 Muslims on the bridge in 1992. The Bridge in question was used regularly as an ethnic cleansing location in the Balkan War, and when the dam was opened to drain down the reservoir for repair work, over 300 bodies were located below the bridge.

However the images of pregnant women being carried out of the Mariopol Maternity Hospital that the Russians intentionally shelled, demonstrated the lack of civility by the Russians. The tortured bodies of civilians located after the Russian retreat from Kiev is motivation for the Ukrainians. So if there is some retribution against the Russians, I will not be surprised.

Drewski

[fishnguy]

For those interested, this a pretty great video in regards to the dam failure: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6z4rhB...ature=youtu.be

[esher]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The Balkans War was pretty horrific, and shows how long these people can hold a grudge.

There was a bridge that had a genocide event of 100 Christians being beheaded in the 1800's (Dnrina Bridge). Even though it was 100 years earlier, that was the justification for beheading 100 Muslims on the bridge in 1992. The Bridge in question was used regularly as an ethnic cleansing location in the Balkan War, and when the dam was opened to drain down the reservoir for repair work, over 300 bodies were located below the bridge.

However the images of pregnant women being carried out of the Mariopol Maternity Hospital that the Russians intentionally shelled, demonstrated the lack of civility by the Russians. The tortured bodies of civilians located after the Russian retreat from Kiev is motivation for the Ukrainians. So if there is some retribution against the Russians, I will not be surprised.

Drewski

As terrible as it was the Germans thought the Russians seeing what they did in Russia should of been nicer on German soil to them, go figure. History repeats itself.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Not good news given the food crisis of last fall and American winter wheat harvests are forecast to be dismal as well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65838771

Grizz

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

By most standards, the Ukrainian war is very civilized, if there is such a thing. Even the casualty rates are not that high, just have to look back at the Balkan wars of not so long ago for a comparison.

Grizz

Unless you have boots on the ground and got the info by being there the dribble we get from social media is just that.

I guess they call it click bait, have a oh my god title to a report, speculate and put your own twist on it then let it out for others to do the same.

Mark my words there’s is nothing civil about this invasion.

[Sundancefisher]

In 1941 the Soviets blew up a similar dam on the same river to block a Nazi advance. They killed a lot of their own citizens as a result. Doing this now blocks the heavy armour of Ukraine from using this corridor to attack and take back their land captured by Russia earlier.

The dam breach harms Ukrainian farmers and Crimean drinking water.

Who did what here is a meaningless argument. Russian army shouldn’t be in the country to begin with. It wouldn’t of happened if Russia didn’t attack Ukraine. No country has a right to attack another to capture territory.

Will it get repaired. Eventually yes. The agricultural lost crops is worth billions to the Ukraine economy and most is shipped so it’s valued to the world as a whole.

[6.5 shooter]

Russia just blew up a smaller dam in the NW to block the Ukraine attack from the West today. So having done so, it leaves little doubt in my mind who blew up the first dam.

[fishnguy]

^ Link? I follow our (western), Russian, and Ukrainian news almost religiously and haven’t seen anything mentioned. I was pretty busy today, but I doubt I would miss another dam because it would be all over the news.

[Lornce]

BBC mentioned the second dam brown up here.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Lornce

BBC mentioned the second dam brown up here.

Thanks. Found a couple other sources (both questionable). From the BBC article:

On Sunday Valeriy Shershen, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian military, said the destruction of the second dam near the village of Novodarivka had "led to the flooding on both banks of the Mokri Yaly river".

Mr Shershen said Russia was deliberately blowing up dams in the region to halt Ukraine's advance towards occupied areas.

First of all, there is no dam near the village of Novodarivka. Here is the map (the dam is circled in blue, the village in red):



Second, it is doubtful the reservoir has any “meaningful” amount of water to do any major flooding that makes any difference:



It isn’t a deep body of water either as can be clearly seen from the satellite imagery:





I’ve looked at a number of different satellite photos and not a single one shows water in the river bed below the dam.

Also, the river does not flow the aforementioned village way:



Lastly, if all were true - the the dam destroyed, plenty of water to get to where the frontline is and make some difference, etc - the Russians would be flooding and/or trapping their own troops. The last image (from a pro-Ukrainian source) shows where an “optimistic” frontline is. I guess it should also be mentioned that things are not going horribly wrong for the Russians there (and any of the directions currently) and far from ideal for the Ukrainians.

So yeah, there is a better than good chance it didn't happen at all and what you are reading is bs propaganda. There is probably a reason it isn’t reported at any of the reputable sources (yet?).