Project AXIS

[SmokinJoe]

So I have a Savage Axis chambered in 22-250. I paid 330 dollars for the rifle scope combo. When I put the rifle thru it's paces it shot between an inch and a half and two inches with 2 different types of factory ammunition.

So I am figuring out some basic "home remedies" for this rifle to get it to perform with household items, keeping in mind this is a 330 dollar gun. I'm not interested in buying another gun.

So far I have done a home trigger job, replaced the spring with one I found around the house. Added a 10-24 half inch screw, and polished it up a little and added a washer between the trigger and trigger housing to eliminate wiggle, and encourage a cosistantly straight trigger pull. This got it from 8 pounds to a crisp 2.

I have noticed that the butt was hollow and gave the rifle a hollow and noisy feel, also that it made the gun very unbalanced weight way to far forward. So with the advise from a fellow AO member I stuffed the butt with left over expanding foam, and weighted it with some scrap mettle I had hanging out, but was careful to keep the weight centered. Problem solved, already feels better.

Now I want to glass bed the rifle. I have done different beds with kits before, so I'm not worried about how to do it other than that I want to do this with somewhat house hold items. Bondo? Other automotive glass? Any ideas?

Some input would be great. I want to keep this project within reach for the average guy, and cheap at the same time a quality way to make this gun shoot. I'm guessing with the trigger done this gun should already be shooting better. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, back was pretty sore today.


Fire Away Folks.

[Okotokian]

How about testing it out now, before glass bedding, to see how much inprovement your tweaks made already? That way you can also later judge how much improvement the bedding makes on it's own. Doing a lot of work on a $330 gun seems crazy but since you are doing it all yourself, just consider it an interesting little low-cost hobby. I'll be interested to see what you can end up getting out of that piece of..... er, I mean that rifle.

[SmokinJoe]

I will shoot it before I bed it. So far it has cost me nothing. All recycled items so far.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Now I want to glass bed the rifle. I have done different beds with kits before, so I'm not worried about how to do it other than that I want to do this with somewhat house hold items. Bondo? Other automotive glass? Any ideas?

Any Polymer resin should do the trick really I’m sure would be better if it is glass filled to add extra rigidity to it. Not sure how well "Bondo" will work since in my experience with the stuff it is fairly brittle and I would worry about it breaking up with the jarring effects of recoil.

Other option that may work and would probably be lying around would be an Epoxy Putty. Might take some force to get it to work but might just do the trick.

[deanmc]

The biggest thing I noticed on mine while using a bipod is that the flex in the stock causes huge accuracy issues. The stock has significant enough movement to cause variable pressure points on the bottom and/or sides of the barrel.

I forget who gave me the advice on here to use course sandpaper wrapped around a broomstick to increase the clearance between the stock and barrel. I now with handloads get honest .5"-.75" inch 5 shot groups from a bench.

[Ormachek]

I've bedded rifles with JB weld before, worked fine, I think i used furniture wax for the release agent.

[dewalt18]

Funny this should pop up! I have the same rifle in .223, bought it at wholesale during last year's boxing week sale. $249 out the door. Got it shooting 3/4" groups with Hornady varmint 45grns. Until I put a bipod under it, then it opened up to almost 2". Same issue as Dean, the foreend simply flexes to much. So the stock is currently sitting in my gun vise, with a bottle of fiberglass resin sitting there ready to go! Looks like we arrived at the same solution!

[spurly]

Bondo will just turn to dust. I had the same rifle, bedding the recoil area, didn't do a bunch of good, but bedding the last 2" of the forend realy made it shoot, I also bedded in 2 peices of carbon fibre, arrow shaft into the forend, this stiffened it up, very nice, great shooting little rifle, wish I didn't sell it.

[baptiste_moose]

I bedded my recoil lug right in the stock. The recoil lug fits in a groove in the barrel nut. Stupidest design ever. I also bedded around the front pillar and 1st 2" of the chamber. I did pre and post groupings after the bed. 1 1/2" before with a handload and 3/4" after. I find with handloads as far as the SST bullet goes it seems to like 5 thou off the lands! Bullet seating depth was pivotal.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by baptiste_moose

I bedded my recoil lug right in the stock. The recoil lug fits in a groove in the barrel nut. Stupidest design ever. I also bedded around the front pillar and 1st 2" of the chamber. I did pre and post groupings after the bed. 1 1/2" before with a handload and 3/4" after. I find with handloads as far as the SST bullet goes it seems to like 5 thou off the lands! Bullet seating depth was pivotal.

When I saw the recoil lug design of the Axis, those were my thoughts exactly BM, how not only stupid is that and how in the heck did they save manufacturing costs doing it this way? The Axis stock under the action is hollowed out, skeletonized so to speak. So finding a good support for bedding material is a task. I also noticed that the pillars are of a much thinner wall than the standard 11/111 and the Stevens 200. Bedding is possible, but not without extra work to fill all the hollow spaces. For bedding, IMHO, nothing beats Devcon Steel Epoxy 101110, and my go to release agent is Fluid Film. It releases nicely but also leaves a nice smooth and clean finish on your bedding job. The thing to remember is that plastics are very difficult to adhere to, no matter what you use. The key is to rough up the material, I clean with acetone, and drill angular anchoring holes for the bedding compound.

[keep6matt]

Interesting advice on here , appreciate the tips as I have recently acquired a Savage Axis .308 and was thinking of bedding that rifle as well as my Savage hvy barrel .17 HMR. Will also look at the trigger pull home remedy as mentioned above. Thanks gang!

[plmnnkoqaz]

I added some steel rod into the foreend by milling out (dremel, utility knife) the little ribs and then expoxied it all in place. It seems to be much more rigid. I think I used 1/4 in rod from the hardware store. It still flexes a bit, but on the bipod it is still free floated.

[rugerparts]

I'm very interested as to how this turns out.

As for recommendations, I have no idea if this would work but you could pick up some chopped fiberglass from a concrete company (building stores might even have it) and mix it with silicone caulking. I have no idea how well the two would bond but it seems silicone bonds with glass fibers in a variety of building materials no problem so could work. Definitely test it first.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by rugerparts

I'm very interested as to how this turns out.

As for recommendations, I have no idea if this would work but you could pick up some chopped fiberglass from a concrete company (building stores might even have it) and mix it with silicone caulking. I have no idea how well the two would bond but it seems silicone bonds with glass fibers in a variety of building materials no problem so could work. Definitely test it first.

You can't be serious....

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by rugerparts

I'm very interested as to how this turns out.

As for recommendations, I have no idea if this would work but you could pick up some chopped fiberglass from a concrete company (building stores might even have it) and mix it with silicone caulking. I have no idea how well the two would bond but it seems silicone bonds with glass fibers in a variety of building materials no problem so could work. Definitely test it first.

It has to be firm....silicone is waaaay too flexible to have any effects...

LC

[rugerparts]

Fair enough. Use an accrylic sealant then or any variety of construction epoxies. Or consider silicone based adhesives containing a hardening agent that create a harder dried product. There are a variety of so called miracle glues that fit into that category. My suggestion was really to try and create your own fiber reinforced compound. The fiber was the key.

[SmokinJoe]

Shot the gun early this afternoon, shot just under an inch with current mod. Was a little wild on the fourth shot don't think anything can be done about that.

[baptiste_moose]

Here are the pictures you requested for your thread.

[SmokinJoe]

Thank you!!!

[Mekanik]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Thank you!!!

Thank you! Great thread.

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by Mekanik

Thank you! Great thread.

Just wait the best is yet to come. I plan on building a 223 once I find a good system to accurize these guns. The with the 223 I want to video document step by step how it is done and show the performance of each modification as they happen. Then I'm going to do some other modifications the average guy can do at home on his kitchen table with tools common in every household with materials that some people will already have or can get easy from their local hardware or automotive supply house.

The goal is to show people an easy way to put some pride into their "entry level" firearm, without spending much money.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

You can't be serious....

My thoughts exactly. If you have no idea, why post a stupid idea?

[rugerparts]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

My thoughts exactly. If you have no idea, why post a stupid idea?

Listen fella, i have forgotten more about material mechanics than you will ever know. Why don't you tell me what glass fiber actually does for a bedding compound. "uh, it makes it stronger"... Yeah that's what i thought. No it increases its strength modulus in tension. If you can tell me how the two statements are different without two hours and Wikipedia then maybe you can criticize.

What i was considering is the possibility of home making a fiber reinforced compound. Admittedly silicone caulk wasn't the.best reccommedation for a matrix but i was really focused on the concept of in expensive sources of chopped glass fiber and there are silicone bases products with a much higher hardness but there are also many other readily available flowing plastic compounds that cure to.adequate hardness.

What needs to be considered is the bonding surface of your glass fibers. For a lot of glass reinforcement the bond is micro-surface dependant. The chopped fiber for concrete reinforcement will be textured for that application. I'm not sure what that will mean for some of the other plastic compounds out there. The silicone hydrogen bond to glass, weak though it is, is less texture.dependant and it is continuous so that when a fiber with a high surface area to volume ratio is completely imersed it will form a very adequate bond.

So now instead of anonymously insulting people perhaps you can provide your own useful suggestions.

[gopher]

Best way to get performance from a Salvage, is to buy something else.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by baptiste_moose

I bedded my recoil lug right in the stock. The recoil lug fits in a groove in the barrel nut. Stupidest design ever. I also bedded around the front pillar and 1st 2" of the chamber. I did pre and post groupings after the bed. 1 1/2" before with a handload and 3/4" after. I find with handloads as far as the SST bullet goes it seems to like 5 thou off the lands! Bullet seating depth was pivotal.

You realize that both Anschutz and Sako both use that type of recoil lug, but "admidships " of the action - and they build ACCURATE rifles right out of the box!
Cat

[keep6matt]

Originally Posted by rugerparts

Listen fella, i have forgotten more about material mechanics than you will ever know. Why don't you tell me what glass fiber actually does for a bedding compound. "uh, it makes it stronger"... Yeah that's what i thought. No it increases its strength modulus in tension. If you can tell me how the two statements are different without two hours and Wikipedia then maybe you can criticize.

What i was considering is the possibility of home making a fiber reinforced compound. Admittedly silicone caulk wasn't the.best reccommedation for a matrix but i was really focused on the concept of in expensive sources of chopped glass fiber and there are silicone bases products with a much higher hardness but there are also many other readily available flowing plastic compounds that cure to.adequate hardness.

What needs to be considered is the bonding surface of your glass fibers. For a lot of glass reinforcement the bond is micro-surface dependant. The chopped fiber for concrete reinforcement will be textured for that application. I'm not sure what that will mean for some of the other plastic compounds out there. The silicone hydrogen bond to glass, weak though it is, is less texture.dependant and it is continuous so that when a fiber with a high surface area to volume ratio is completely imersed it will form a very adequate bond.

So now instead of anonymously insulting people perhaps you can provide your own useful suggestions.

Been thinking about this overnight and came up with a few suggestions as for a material compound...call me crazy but I used to sell this stuff in a previous sales job. For a synthetic stock maybe a good fix would be QuikPlastic (see link below) Another really good product place that has an online catalog that offers a wide variety of products is Viking Plastics www.vikingplastics.ca They have a beeswax release agent (spray can) which works well with fibreglass molds. Heck its worth a shot, just a couple of suggestions...I want to bed both of my Savages and will start experimenting as well. Have a great day everyone.

http://www.polymericsystems.com/epox...uikplastik.htm

[gitrdun]

With the recoil lug mounting that not only the Axis uses, but also T3 in a similar fashion, there has to be residual clearance for the upper portion of the lug to slip into the receiver. In my mind, you can bed the recoil lug as tight as possible in the stock, but you still are left with the clearance on top. Having pondered this, one cannot escape the fact that these rifles reportedly still shooti accurately enough to satisfy most. Perhaps I'm ovethinking this. I still cannot understand what was wrong with the old and standard method of attaching a recoil lug to the receiver. I certainly don't see any savings in manufacturing process.

@keep6matt: I looked at your links. I think that these plastics may be a good alternate to fill in the voids. But, I did not see any specifications quoting compressive strenght. It seems as though yourself and rugerparts are identifying these types of products as offering a good bond to plastic stocks, but keep in mind that compressive strenght is equally important. Good posts though, keeps a fellow thinking out of the box.

[Pathfinder76]

Wow. Is it that much of a burden to go down to the hardware store and pick up $5 worth of two part epoxy?

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by chuck

Wow. Is it that much of a burden to go down to the hardware store and pick up $5 worth of two part epoxy?

No it isn't Chuck, as neither is picking up some Acraglass or Devcon, but the conversation in my eyes opened up with the topic of adhesion to plastics.

[colin455]

I was left wondering what release agent they used when molding the stock and the importance of cleaning BEFORE sanding so as not to drive the remenants of said agent into the scratches and thereby inhibiting bonding.
I admit to using ether (starting fluid - outside of course) for a final 'rinse' as it leaves no residue when something has to be very clean.
My Rem 700 SPS shoots larger groups when on a bipod. We found that the forestock flexes and touches the barrel when on a bipod. Next on my list to try is bedding. I have a JW-103 I'm looking to practice on first though.