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  #151  
Old 02-12-2018, 06:18 PM
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This is laughable.. I certainly didnt vote for Naughty or Trudeau. of course my numbers are a hyperbole of 98 and 2% But without question the dumb FAR FAR out weigh the smart when it comes to the polling station. Hence they both got elected.

I never said you voted for them. I suggested that like them you feel superior to us, the unintelligent 98% .They got elected because people like yourself insist on big government and more control. You find comfort in thinking your morals or ethics are being forced on others. It was one bear that died as humanly as any other bear that was killed and more humanely than those that went down by natural causes.

My friend, I pay taxes just like you do. I am not in government, nor am I a socialist.

Much like my comment above, Who ever said that the rule makers are super intelligent? There is a massive amount of stupid in all levels of Government. Here is another great selection from the article I posted.

"No matter how many idiots you suspect yourself surrounded by, you are invariably lowballing the total. This problem is compounded by biased assumptions that certain people are intelligent based on superficial factors like their job, education level, or other traits we believe to be exclusive of stupidity. They aren’t. "

And here again you miss the point. In a true democracy the majority rules or at least who the majority votes for. Intelligence, amount of taxes paid or income does not lessen your vote.

The thing is, the blabber isnt the vocal minority. If you discussed using a spear to kill any animal with the MAJORITY of the population in Canada and showed them the you tube video. I would bet all of my worldly belongings that the people who would be against using a throwing spear to try kill animals would be in the 90-95% + range, . That includes a great many hunters like myself.

It most certainly is and the reason you are finding opposition to your argument. A few got a hold of the video and made an issue where none existed. The sheeple jumped on board and as soon as the commotion got loud enough the politicians showed up to harvest the rewards.

So where do you draw the line in the sand regarding regulations? Does it take 1 person to say they want to use a spear? how about 10? 100? 10000? If it is put in those terms, isnt it the exact thing you are upset with, but in reverse? That a VERY low minority feel they should have the right to do what they want regardless of the rest of the population?

I draw the line at one. The man with the spear has every bit as much right as the man with the rifle. It is none of my business how he hunts as long as he is not endangering others or harming wildlife or the environment as a whole

Even if you go back to biblical times.. The majority of the laws were created to benefit the wealthy and powerful. Not protect or ensure that people were free to enjoy their lives. Fast forward 200 years and it is very little different today.

I know how they operate, but unlike you I refuse to be part of the problem.
I'm done but please carry on without me.
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  #152  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:08 PM
boah boah is offline
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There is still a set minimum. That caliber of .23 or larger, will produce the bare minimum bullet size and power required, and will be the same regardless of who pulls the trigger. The same cannot be said with a spear.

Can you point me to what was the minimum requirements for a spear in Alberta to hunt big game? And do you think those regulations will be enough regardless of size/strength of the person using it?
Why do you keep asking the same question? You know as well as I do that there is NO minimum. Regulations don’t matter as spear chucking is now illegal.
I know you didn’t ask, but I’ll give you my thoughts for what it’s worth. If spears were legal, I am pretty sure you could put a minimum weight, a minimum and maximum cutting diameter and minimum length of cutting surface. If these were met, it would take a certain “force”to throw it.
By the way, have you ever had to use more than 1 round to kill an animal? Have any wounded ones gone unfound?

Last edited by boah; 02-12-2018 at 07:35 PM.
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  #153  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:15 PM
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Just for thought, considering spears are now banned and there is nothing that can be done:

I find it amusing that, for perhaps thousands of years, natives used spears. They must have had success, even with the limitations a spear seems to have. But, the spear ban does not apply to them so lets leave them out of this.

That spear use continued right up until a week ago.

Some raise the point that there are no guidelines as to how much a spear should weigh, cutting width etc.

Perhaps there isnt any guideline because it wasn’t necessary?

Imagine that! Something that was legal to do, that wasn’t regulated, prescribed, and accompanied by several paragraphs explaining how a spear had to be. For 10,000 years all was good, until last week?

More or less, what happened here was some social idiot killed a bear with a spear. He smiled and chanted and fist-pumped and effectively lost us our ability to hunt in such a manner.

Had the so called “ hunter support” groups been truly thinking of hunters, they could have put their collective heads (and OUR collective money) together, and came up with an alternative.

Instead, they took the easy road, the road that bowed to our government. The same government that certain members of these “hunter support” groups chastise and usurp at every opportunity.

Why? That’s easy.

They are also afraid of this government. They fear lack of support, funding, and cooperation.

I guess its how some deal with a bully.

In school, if a bully wanted my lunch, he had to either fight for it or scrape it off the bottom of my shoe and eat it. Because, in my belief, i was not gonna just give it to him. If he ate it after I stepped on it, I learned something about his level of desperation.

I think our hunter support groups handed the government our sandwich. The government shared our sandwich with their social media pressure group.

Should have stepped on it.
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  #154  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:37 PM
angery jonn angery jonn is offline
 
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Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Just for thought, considering spears are now banned and there is nothing that can be done:

I find it amusing that, for perhaps thousands of years, natives used spears. They must have had success, even with the limitations a spear seems to have. But, the spear ban does not apply to them so lets leave them out of this.

That spear use continued right up until a week ago.

Some raise the point that there are no guidelines as to how much a spear should weigh, cutting width etc.

Perhaps there isnt any guideline because it wasn’t necessary?

Imagine that! Something that was legal to do, that wasn’t regulated, prescribed, and accompanied by several paragraphs explaining how a spear had to be. For 10,000 years all was good, until last week?

More or less, what happened here was some social idiot killed a bear with a spear. He smiled and chanted and fist-pumped and effectively lost us our ability to hunt in such a manner.

Had the so called “ hunter support” groups been truly thinking of hunters, they could have put their collective heads (and OUR collective money) together, and came up with an alternative.

Instead, they took the easy road, the road that bowed to our government. The same government that certain members of these “hunter support” groups chastise and usurp at every opportunity.

Why? That’s easy.

They are also afraid of this government. They fear lack of support, funding, and cooperation.

I guess its how some deal with a bully.

In school, if a bully wanted my lunch, he had to either fight for it or scrape it off the bottom of my shoe and eat it. Because, in my belief, i was not gonna just give it to him. If he ate it after I stepped on it, I learned something about his level of desperation.

I think our hunter support groups handed the government our sandwich. The government shared our sandwich with their social media pressure group.

Should have stepped on it.
Did you lobby for the use of spears? How about you Nube? How many people actually use spears in this province? I’d bet it’s less then 0.01%, should we really be dumping huge amounts of money in a losing battle? Especially when all you every hear is how there’s not enough money as it is.
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  #155  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CF8889 View Post
There is still a set minimum. That caliber of .23 or larger, will produce the bare minimum bullet size and power required, and will be the same regardless of who pulls the trigger. The same cannot be said with a spear.

Can you point me to what was the minimum requirements for a spear in Alberta to hunt big game? And do you think those regulations will be enough regardless of size/strength of the person using it?
A 2lb. Spear with a sharp 5/8” head thrown by a average 10 year old will get more penetration than a 40lb. Bow with the same 5/8” head.
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  #156  
Old 02-12-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by angery jonn View Post
Did you lobby for the use of spears? How about you Nube? How many people actually use spears in this province? I’d bet it’s less then 0.01%, should we really be dumping huge amounts of money in a losing battle? Especially when all you every hear is how there’s not enough money as it is.
The number of people doing it is redundant The low hanging fruit is always easiest to get , then they just keep goin up the ladder until they get it all. Its really not rocket science
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  #157  
Old 02-12-2018, 08:05 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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The number of people doing it is redundant The low hanging fruit is always easiest to get , then they just keep goin up the ladder until they get it all. Its really not rocket science
Yep, how many use flintlock, traditional bows, muzzle loaders Ect. The lowest hanging fruit is next.
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  #158  
Old 02-12-2018, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
I'm done but please carry on without me.
Pretty well all you said in your comments to my post is hogwash.. Much like your ignorance towards your assumptions about me.

There is no such thing as a TRUE democracy.. sorry to say. I would highly recommend a little bit of deep reading about the subject.

Id agree I am done as well..

Cannot rationalize with irrational people.

Last edited by CanadianEh; 02-12-2018 at 08:40 PM.
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  #159  
Old 02-12-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by angery jonn View Post
Did you lobby for the use of spears? How about you Nube? How many people actually use spears in this province? I’d bet it’s less then 0.01%, should we really be dumping huge amounts of money in a losing battle? Especially when all you every hear is how there’s not enough money as it is.
You just don't get it. AGAIN!
Maybe I think traditional muzzleloaders with round balls isn't right. Maybe we should ban that too!
I think Bows wound way too many critters out there as well! I think I should write some letters to the Gov't and lets end that too! No biggy to me because I don't do much of either so who cares!
This is rediculous!
Hunting groups and associations need to support all hunting plain and simple. If they don't they are part of the problem.
If they are quoted in the Newspaper for possibly being against hunters and they are not they darn sure better get their voice out there and say otherwise and show some support for hunters.
I'm done! You guys enjoy what you got left for the few years of hunting we have left. It won't be long till it's all gone
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  #160  
Old 02-12-2018, 09:13 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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It won't be long till it's all gone
Sad but very true.
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  #161  
Old 02-12-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by angery jonn View Post
Did you lobby for the use of spears? How about you Nube? How many people actually use spears in this province? I’d bet it’s less then 0.01%, should we really be dumping huge amounts of money in a losing battle? Especially when all you every hear is how there’s not enough money as it is.
Yes I did by showing my support of every type of hunting, at every turn, and supporting the use of these tools for all, whether I partake or not. I was into social media before it was even invented. It was called intelligent discussion and sometimes debate.

I built 4 spears. Some experimental, one is a definite. Some guys I know have taken deer, moose and bears successfully. They simply refrained from the filming and the posting.

You are probably right in your estimation of their use. .01% is probably pretty close. But I still vocally support those 10-50 guys who really wanna hunt primitive. Sad day for them. They are still important though, even if they do not have the numbers.

I dont believe this would have had a cost to save this form of hunting. It could have been discussed , utilizing the right people. I would have been one of those “right” people. But, that isnt how it panned out. We as hunters and fishermen and trappers allowed our so called “ support groups” to be our voice.

Unfortunately for hunters, this form of hunting has been restricted to a portion of the population that may or may never revive it. Perhaps we could support our native fellow hunters and encourage them to make this an accepted hunting method again.

I do believe with that statement, I have perhaps built a small rickety bridge between native hunters and those who do not identify as such.

Anyone wanna help make it a better bridge?
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  #162  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:55 PM
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Did these guys talk to the Government? How many of you are members of this group? If they did talk to the Government did they have any input into the regulation changes?

https://www.albertaatlatl.com/

LC
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  #163  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:15 AM
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What happened to fight for your rights or should I say Privilege because I am not of a certain colour.......
You were doing so well, until you chose to race bait.
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  #164  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:33 AM
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Did these guys talk to the Government? How many of you are members of this group? If they did talk to the Government did they have any input into the regulation changes?

https://www.albertaatlatl.com/

LC

Yes they did, Rob is a (very) decent guy with a fine family and he did what he could to protect his way of hunting. Sadly, several groups have thrown spear hunters under the bus.
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  #165  
Old 02-13-2018, 06:34 AM
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Not much to think about Dave! They don't make every cent from licenses do they? There is a lot to hurt the pocketbook if you use your brain to figure it out. Take a look at their website and I am sure you can figure out quite a few areas that you could choose not to support. The rest you don't have a choice.
Glad you fellows like your choices taken away lol Hope you don't bow hunt!
Oh ok nube. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure that once a philanthropist, such as yourself, calls for a boycott and pulls your overwhelming financial support, both these organizations will be cripled in a few short months lololol

It's been pointed out to you about a half dozen times in this thread that the article clearly states that both aca and ahiea were consulted. That's it. No where does it say what their position is/was, and you yourself said, just a couple posts up, that you haven't heard back from aheia. Going off half cocked, and screaming for a boycott, without having all, or any of the facts. hmmmmm Are you a liberal? This is starting to make sense. Cue the clown music.
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  #166  
Old 02-13-2018, 07:30 AM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Yes I did by showing my support of every type of hunting, at every turn, and supporting the use of these tools for all, whether I partake or not. I was into social media before it was even invented. It was called intelligent discussion and sometimes debate.

I built 4 spears. Some experimental, one is a definite. Some guys I know have taken deer, moose and bears successfully. They simply refrained from the filming and the posting.

You are probably right in your estimation of their use. .01% is probably pretty close. But I still vocally support those 10-50 guys who really wanna hunt primitive. Sad day for them. They are still important though, even if they do not have the numbers.

I dont believe this would have had a cost to save this form of hunting. It could have been discussed , utilizing the right people. I would have been one of those “right” people. But, that isnt how it panned out. We as hunters and fishermen and trappers allowed our so called “ support groups” to be our voice.

Unfortunately for hunters, this form of hunting has been restricted to a portion of the population that may or may never revive it. Perhaps we could support our native fellow hunters and encourage them to make this an accepted hunting method again.

I do believe with that statement, I have perhaps built a small rickety bridge between native hunters and those who do not identify as such.

Anyone wanna help make it a better bridge?
As someone who is undecided on this whole issue, I gotta say that this post is written respectfully in a way that makes me want to listen and consider the writers point of view.

Matt

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Last edited by mattthegorby; 02-13-2018 at 07:50 AM.
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  #167  
Old 02-13-2018, 08:26 AM
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I just received an answer from ACA on the question of them supporting the ban. Yes, they were involved in discussions and put suggestions forward. Their suggestions NEVER included banning spear or atlatl hunting. So, Minister Phillips quote below was a bit misleading. Surprize surprize. She maybe should have said, " the change is happening despite extensive consultations with hunting associations".

Environment Minister Shannon Phillips said the change is a result of extensive consultations with hunting associations, the Alberta Conservation Association and the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors’ Association.

Last edited by boah; 02-13-2018 at 08:33 AM.
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  #168  
Old 02-13-2018, 08:53 AM
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Some guys I know have taken deer, moose and bears successfully. They simply refrained from the filming and the posting.
That showed wisdom
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  #169  
Old 02-13-2018, 08:59 AM
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I just received an answer from ACA on the question of them supporting the ban. Yes, they were involved in discussions and put suggestions forward. Their suggestions NEVER included banning spear or atlatl hunting. So, Minister Phillips quote below was a bit misleading. Surprize surprize. She maybe should have said, " the change is happening despite extensive consultations with hunting associations".

Environment Minister Shannon Phillips said the change is a result of extensive consultations with hunting associations, the Alberta Conservation Association and the Alberta Hunter Education Instructors’ Association.
Quote:
“As an education-based group that supports legal and ethical harvest of wild game in Alberta, it is part of our mission to educate hunters to comply with all provincial hunting regulations. We support the government in this recent update to the regulations regarding equipment appropriate for hunting big game.”
Robert Gruszecki, president, Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Association
So it was really AHEIA that backed them all the way?
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  #170  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:40 AM
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So it was really AHEIA that backed them all the way?
According to Bob G, yes. AHEIA has not replied.
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  #171  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:49 AM
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Boah it has been almost a week and no response from AHEIA for me. ACA responded to me. The end of the discussion with the ACA was that yes they would think about voicing where they stand because of right now nobody knows and it does not make them look good the way the newspaper wrote it. It's just as damaging if they don't come out and make a clear stance and that is what they are doing.
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  #172  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:55 AM
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And I thought you were done.
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  #173  
Old 02-13-2018, 10:45 AM
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Oh ok nube. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure that once a philanthropist, such as yourself, calls for a boycott and pulls your overwhelming financial support, both these organizations will be cripled in a few short months lololol

It's been pointed out to you about a half dozen times in this thread that the article clearly states that both aca and ahiea were consulted. That's it. No where does it say what their position is/was, and you yourself said, just a couple posts up, that you haven't heard back from aheia. Going off half cocked, and screaming for a boycott, without having all, or any of the facts. hmmmmm Are you a liberal? This is starting to make sense. Cue the clown music.
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  #174  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:07 PM
boah boah is offline
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Boah it has been almost a week and no response from AHEIA for me. ACA responded to me. The end of the discussion with the ACA was that yes they would think about voicing where they stand because of right now nobody knows and it does not make them look good the way the newspaper wrote it. It's just as damaging if they don't come out and make a clear stance and that is what they are doing.
ACA's response to me was very clear. I have no problem with that. They don't have to get into a "he said, she said" debate publicly. Let her keep putting her foot in her mouth, she's doing quite a good job.
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  #175  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:11 PM
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Hunting groups and associations need to support all hunting plain and simple.
So should we be ****ed we can't hunt at night? Sure, it's dangerous. But so is hunting in areas non hunters access... like Wildland Parks... slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't trap deer? Sure it's not exactly fair chase. But neither is bear baiting...slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't hunt moose with a .22? Sure it takes a pretty damn good shot. But so does a traditional bow... slippery slope.

This idea all hunters must support all hunting regardless of how they feel is insanity. And it is only a "good thing" until it contradicts your idea of what is right.
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  #176  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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This idea all hunters must support all hunting regardless of how they feel is insanity. And it is only a "good thing" until it contradicts your idea of what is right.
It seems to be the same as having to agree with a really weird uncle just because he is a relative.
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  #177  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:39 PM
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It seems to be the same as having to agree with a really weird uncle just because he is a relative.
Hahahahaha well put
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  #178  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:04 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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So should we be ****ed we can't hunt at night? Sure, it's dangerous. But so is hunting in areas non hunters access... like Wildland Parks... slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't trap deer? Sure it's not exactly fair chase. But neither is bear baiting...slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't hunt moose with a .22? Sure it takes a pretty damn good shot. But so does a traditional bow... slippery slope.

This idea all hunters must support all hunting regardless of how they feel is insanity. And it is only a "good thing" until it contradicts your idea of what is right.
Good Post ! Pretty hard to argue against sound logic.
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  #179  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CF8889 View Post
So should we be ****ed we can't hunt at night? Sure, it's dangerous. But so is hunting in areas non hunters access... like Wildland Parks... slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't trap deer? Sure it's not exactly fair chase. But neither is bear baiting...slippery slope.

Should we be ****ed we can't hunt moose with a .22? Sure it takes a pretty damn good shot. But so does a traditional bow... slippery slope.

This idea all hunters must support all hunting regardless of how they feel is insanity. And it is only a "good thing" until it contradicts your idea of what is right.
I don't buy into the notion that I must support all conservative ideas because I am a conservative....or I must support all hunters because I am a hunter.

I am also a free thinking individual...and I will support things I can get behind. That being said I personally don't think spears should be banned....but I do think the spear lobby was in their best interests to make a proactive presentation with facts and proven data to help convince the powers that be to adapt it as an acceptable form of hunting with minimum requirements. This is no different than other methods. They knew this was a matter of time, some proactive research and homework may have given a different outcome. Just my own personal thoughts.

LC
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  #180  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:09 PM
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Hahahahaha well put

I know you didn’t ask, but I’ll give you my thoughts for what it’s worth. If spears were legal, I am pretty sure you could put a minimum weight, a minimum and maximum cutting diameter and minimum length of cutting surface. If these were met, it would take a certain “force”to throw it.
By the way, have you ever had to use more than 1 round to kill an animal? Have any wounded ones gone unfound?
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